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The Golden Age of MMOs, What Do You Miss Most?

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Comments

  • kyssarikyssari Tipton, IAPosts: 142Member

    Death Meant Something: As annoying as it was, doing corpse runs in the original Everquest, oh man, it added a whole new element to gaming to where you were actually cautious and paranoid about the things you were doing because you know if you died... oh man it was a huge issues...

     

    Todays games... death is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.. a small repair bill or whatnot blah.. original EQ death made you not only cautious about what you were doing but it actually made you scared in many a situation and fear is something no mmo today offers at all.

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,266Member Uncommon

    Mostly?

     

    The endless free time and zero responsibility it took to play them to their fullest extent.

     

     

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Goatgod76
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    And here he is as usual on queue.

    Go play console games...really, because everything you talk about are console game qualities. MMORPG's and console games are a different genre for a reason. Every damn thread that dares say something about games that take time, thinking, or interaction you are sure to jump on. If you don't like the topic...move on and don't reply with your usual garbble of  anti-MMORPG whine.

    I sure don't enjoy being able to get to level cap in a month or less (Without really trying), being able to solo almost everything and not have to talk to another person, have quest NPC's marked with ridiculously large "!" and the accompanying quest being 10 feet away and able to complete in a few minutes for some reward you've already out leveld the use of, etc, etc, etc.....

    But I don't find EVERY thread someone is talking about those kinds, or talking about things they enjoy in them, or miss from a particular one that is closed down because everyone got bored of it and the population fell off after 6 months or less and do what you do. Just stop already.

    Why do you come to this site or play MMORPG's if you don't like them as they were intended. Again...there is a reason they are a seperate genre. I have a full time job and responsibilities, but I still play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which isn't instant gratification, etc. I find or make the time. I take it at the pace I can enjoy it and progress. If you can't find the time, then maybe it's time to stop playing MMORPG's.

    And I know this will probably get me a warning or ban, but cripes...enough is enough.

    Like I told the other poster and the OP. None of the things Quirhid are rallying against on his list responding to the OP existed in UO, so maybe he's not looking for another version of EQ? All I see are mechanics listed that led us to this point in the first place. Only difference is that those games that feature those tired concepts are still alive and kickin. It's time for a new direction.

    It's like asking someone to make something different after serving you cake for the last 20 years. So they reach into the cupboard and take out all the ingredients they are use to working with and in the end add strawberries. Then they serve it to you and upon first bite you exclaim. Hey this is cake again, only with strawberries! They look at you perplexed because they technically did make something different this time and you facepalm stating that maybe they should work with different core ingredients next time around. And politely tell them for instance if they have an idea in their head to make pie don't start with ingredients used to make a freakin cake.

    I get what you are saying, but I am also not advocating it has to be just like EQ. It's fine to add some features to make certain things easier. But not to the extent it isn't even recongnizable as an MMORPG anymore.

  • LuckshmiLuckshmi ManilaPosts: 74Member
    Originally posted by remyburke

    Mostly?

     The endless free time and zero responsibility it took to play them to their fullest extent.

    this needs quoting.

    The golden age for me was a bit personal, during the time that I don't need to do anything but sit and play plus with the perfect timing of awesome games. soo. there. Purely for enjoyment.

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     Reply to Response: I never played these games, but I was 11 when they came out, so therefore an expert on everything.

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    Yes, the genre was really hindered as it exploded 1000 fold in popularity with the addition of group and raid-centric games.
    1. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    Basically, just a re-hashing of his first comment. All people should be able to do everything in the game.  MMO's should be like Pac-Man, no one should rely or talk to another person.... maybe Pokemon so you could trade, but definitely no teamwork or communication.
    1. See number 1.
    And not understand it.
    1. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     It's meaningful in the context of the game world...but since you're just playing single player games with an auction house, I could see how the appeal is lost on you.  When you play single player games, do you crow to the NPC's about how you are ranked #1 on the server?

     

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,940Member Uncommon

    Player interdependency and community were a large part of it.

    In games where you could not do everything for yourself, the community sorted itself out quite well, especially in games with heavy crafting.

    In SWG for example, many people who played that game in the original incarnation often commented about how the community was very mature/helpful and that there were not as many d-bag players compared to other games. That was because, there were fewer ahole players, because people relaized that if you tried to do the normal BS things like kill stealing / ninja looting or some of the obnoxious obscene PvP behavior, word got around.  And once word got around that you were a jerk, it was a lot harder to get people to help you in turn, so people either behaved, or left when they saw the penalties for being a tool.

    There was a case I recall from the server I was on of a simulated RP rape of a unconcious female toon. It was obscene, in very poor taste, and went way over the line. Well, the official complaits yielded not much, so word got around to the major crafters and crafting guilds for no one to do business with any of the named players or the guild that did it.  After a week, the guild and all those players were gone from the game or server, because they couldn't get anything from any of the crafters and were largely banned from shops server wide. That is what a strong community can do.

     

    Now, games are filled will aholes and jerks of every stripe, and since everything is mostly soloable these days, there is nothing to keep bad behavior in check. People can do anything/everything for themselves so they can go off the rails with no penalty.

     

    As I think about it, it also because virtual game worlds are not made any more, like SWG, UO, or even early EQ. Now you just get the disposable "themepark of the month" with no longevity.

    And that is another thing that hurts the in game communities: when people know they will only be playing a game for a few months, they don't care as much about anything.

    In games like UO/SWG, people knew they could or would be playing for years so they became much more invested in things, in many respects.

     

  • bamdorfbamdorf Chatham, NJPosts: 150Member

    1.  Longevity.    People played EQ, DAOC, AC, UO for YEARS.  Well, yes, I did play WoW for  a long time and I did make friends there....which is mainly why I played it a long time.    Today it seems games are played for a month and  then it's time to pick up the new flavor, because you've seen it all and want something new, and you haven't found any community.    I will guess  that the vast majority today play MMOs as if they were console games, as has been said, and so the play duration is similar.   Heck, I played Skyrim for three or four months.   It was way better than most of the new MMOs.

    2. Enjoyment factor.    Don't tell me that I had a different experience, say, in EQ because it was new.   Yeah, the first month it was new.   After 3 years or so, don't think that comment really applies.

    3.  Caring about other people.   The business of doing stuff with people but not really interacting with them at all is so discouraging.    Let's all help each other to  not care about each other.

    4. Community.  Some stuff tends to encourage community, some stuff doesn't.   Sure  you can have great community in any MMO.    But when it's a lot more work, and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for, it will tend not to happen.    The devs cater to the masses, of course.    Same reason most movies are repeats of garbage.    In the Golden Age there was a scramble to be innovative, imo.   Now there is a scramble to make a little more slick version of the same thing.

     

     

     

    ---------------------------
    Rose-lipped maidens,
    Light-foot lads...

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Player interdependency and community were a large part of it.

    In games where you could not do everything for yourself, the community sorted itself out quite well, especially in games with heavy crafting.

    In SWG for example, many people who played that game in the original incarnation often commented about how the community was very mature/helpful and that there were not as many d-bag players compared to other games. That was because, there were fewer ahole players, because people relaized that if you tried to do the normal BS things like kill stealing / ninja looting or some of the obnoxious obscene PvP behavior, word got around.  And once word got around that you were a jerk, it was a lot harder to get people to help you in turn, so people either behaved, or left when they saw the penalties for being a tool.

    There was a case I recall from the server I was on of a simulated RP rape of a unconcious female toon. It was obscene, in very poor taste, and went way over the line. Well, the official complaits yielded not much, so word got around to the major crafters and crafting guilds for no one to do business with any of the named players or the guild that did it.  After a week, the guild and all those players were gone from the game or server, because they couldn't get anything from any of the crafters and were largely banned from shops server wide. That is what a strong community can do.

     

    Now, games are filled will aholes and jerks of every stripe, and since everything is mostly soloable these days, there is nothing to keep bad behavior in check. People can do anything/everything for themselves so they can go off the rails with no penalty.

     

    As I think about it, it also because virtual game worlds are not made any more, like SWG, UO, or even early EQ. Now you just get the disposable "themepark of the month" with no longevity.

    And that is another thing that hurts the in game communities: when people know they will only be playing a game for a few months, they don't care as much about anything.

    In games like UO/SWG, people knew they could or would be playing for years so they became much more invested in things, in many respects.

     

    *Ding*

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon

    Things I missed the most:

    • Huge open, seemless world with no instancing
    • Epic, detailed, majestic and long-time consuming quests (things that took 3-4 hours to finish and spaned multiple dungeons).
    • The ability to take on huge swaths of enemies, none of this nimbly-pimbly 2-3 mobs is to much and you will die bullshit.  I want to tackle 20+ mobs and come out drained and rewarded.
    • Economies based on actually playing the game and getting lucky by finding a super rare item to sell to another player.
    • NO BIND ON EQUIP or BIND ON AQUIRE  crap.  Wear something for a few months, get bored of the looks and sell it to someone else.
    • only 3-4 distintive looks, I miss having an ungodly amount of cosmetic appeareance items.  Instead of say 7 endgame armors for GW2, imagine if it had 300+ armor suits.  Yea that shit is epic.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,658Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     Reply to Response: I never played these games, but I was 11 when they came out, so therefore an expert on everything.

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    Yes, the genre was really hindered as it exploded 1000 fold in popularity with the addition of group and raid-centric games.

     

    1. EQ had forced dependency.
    2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
    3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

    That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

    Group or crawl

    • EQ
    • DAoC

     

    Solo and Group content

     

    • Furcadia
    • Tibia
    • Kesmia
    • Graal
    • Ultima Online
    • Asheron's Call
    • There
    • Planet Entropia
    • Runescape
    • EVE Online
    • Second Life
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Neocron
    • Anarchy Online
     
    The EQers seem to think that EQ defined the way MMOs were at the time. Your 'golden age' encompassed a lot more than just the masochistic monotony of EQ, but acknowledging that would shatter your illusions of The Way It Was.


     

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    I miss meaningful crafting.
  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    I miss meaningful crafting.

    Yep.

    I miss SWG too.

    Hoping FF14 picks up the ball on that one.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     Reply to Response: I never played these games, but I was 11 when they came out, so therefore an expert on everything.

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    Yes, the genre was really hindered as it exploded 1000 fold in popularity with the addition of group and raid-centric games.

     

    1. EQ had forced dependency.
    2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
    3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

    That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

    Group or crawl

    • EQ
    • DAoC

     

    Solo and Group content

     

    • Furcadia
    • Tibia
    • Kesmia
    • Graal
    • Ultima Online
    • Asheron's Call
    • There
    • Planet Entropia
    • Runescape
    • EVE Online
    • Second Life
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Neocron
    • Anarchy Online
     
    The EQers seem to think that EQ defined the way MMOs were at the time. Your 'golden age' encompassed a lot more than just the masochistic monotony of EQ, but acknowledging that would shatter your illusions of The Way It Was.


     

     

     

     

    Um...you could totally solo in EQ. It didn't FORCE you to group. It's just that grouping was more efficient to most. Sure, I grouped a lot..because I made tons of long time friends in the game and enjoyed their company and chit chatting while medding up.

    But I soloed quite a bit as well, and it was totally possible to do so. You just had to have patience...and no matter how anyone else wants to twist it...skill to solo. You had to pay close attention to mob pathing, the timing on their pathing, how many would come during a pull etc. It was the difference between splitting mobs and having success and possibly get some random surprise drop, or dying and having to do a corpse run. And it was fun.

    Being able to blow through countless mobs in seconds while taking little damage and with little danger to you  isn't what I call fun. To me, THAT is monotony.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by free2play
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    I miss meaningful crafting.

    Yep.

    I miss SWG too.

    Hoping FF14 picks up the ball on that one.

    If it does, I'll be playing it.

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    I'll say this the Golden Age style of MMO wouldn't prove sucessful or popular in this era of gaming.... Gamers back then were willing to accept some short comings and stick with it through rough time.. Now if you do that your bound to fail, plus mmo require a certain level of patience, patience that nowadays gamers don't lack..
  • gamesrfungamesrfun Red Deer, ABPosts: 127Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

    awww yes, the golden age of mmos. What a time for gaming.

     

    Recently me and my closest buddies have put gaming aside amidst the stagnant state of mmos, but that sort of opened the door for conversations leading down memory lane; Camping the mile gates in Emain, Hunting the Obby plains in Dereth, Working on our epics in EQ, the list goes on.

     

    We talked about the fun times we had, what characters were dearest to us and the guilds we enjoyed most. But the conversation evolved into What do you miss most about mmos?

     

    We came up with some good ones, but I would like to hear some that maybe we didn’t think of, because I love talking about the mmo glory days!

     

    Ones we came up with-

    Needing to form a group:  I really miss this.. In almost every game I played pre 2006 I would max out my friend’s list with healers, tanks, good rogues, good casters. And I also had a notebook with names of people on it and why I liked to group with them. You would Schmooz up on people who had connections and try to make a name for yourself so you got the good groups. Now it’s just lobbies and queing up... blah.

     

    Buffing:  Man did I love to buff, I would sit in Drum Ligen on my druid and just buff the NPC guards for fun! But even on the other side of it, being buffed was great! It mattered! Being buffed turned you into a machine, taking on reds like they were nothing; it was a noticeable and sizable difference between being buffed and not being buffed. This in turn made you seek out buffing classes and added to that crucial social element. Now a days it’s just a group clicky, and you don’t even notice if it’s on you or not.

     

    Relying on othersIn the glory days, you didn’t do anything unless you have someone with you, hell,.. In Daoc you could barley get around unless you had a bard with you. You could barley exp, getting around was hard, crafting required funding, dungeons were not available unless you helped take keeps. Some people would read what I just typed and say F*ck that... not me. I play mmos to rely on others, and for others to rely on me, that's what creates a social game.  Everything now is instanced and solo'able, you can do anything and everything with out even having to say a word to anyone, thats not an MMO to me.

     

    Meaningful PVP:  UO and AC pvp was awesome, pvp mattered and it was scary. But that feeling carried over not just in full loot pvp, but pvp like daoc. When I was in Emain and saw a Unicorn Knight, or a Thundarer i would shit my self. Dying meant more than just having to trek all the way back to Emain, your death and who killed you was splattered all over the zone, embarassing!   Now it’s just pvp farming, if you see 30 of them and 1 of you, you just run in and fight anyway. Because death is meaningless and victory is meaningless..

     

     

        That’s all I can remember right now, anyone else have anything they miss about the MMO Glory days?

    There are some great glory day posts on this thread.  +1

    It is sad to see how few newer MMO players can contemplate how much more rewarding a challenging MMO is.

    All most of us are asking for is one modern AAA game that has these elements that isn't some micro-transaction themepark.   Honestly, even when I had more time to play, I had no problem with someone being uber powerful compared to me:  it is what made some players mythical and players to look up to.  This "everyone is equal welcome to max level in 1 month even if you have down's syndrome" stuff is super annoying. 

    I mean, ugh, how hard could it be just to hang out a few sandbox carrots in a challenging MMO.  And yes we love you EVE, but I really would like a fantasy fix. 

  • MeriliremMerilirem Port AugustaPosts: 77Member
    Nothing to miss, the games of the past 10 years have been more upsetting than anything. I also dissagree with everything you miss. I love mmos but they just didn't go beyond the stagnant state they are in now.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    I don't believe the golden age of MMO's has even happened it.  The first generation of something is rarely the best. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    The first generation of something is rarely the best. 

    Tell that to the Pokemon fanbase. Most of them seem to want to kill anyone who dares claim Generation 1 is not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

     

    -_-;;

  • vladwwvladww La provencePosts: 416Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
     

     

    1. EQ had forced dependency.
    2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
    3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

    That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

    Group or crawl

    • EQ
    • DAoC

     

    Solo and Group content

     

    • Furcadia
    • Tibia
    • Kesmia
    • Graal
    • Ultima Online
    • Asheron's Call
    • There
    • Planet Entropia
    • Runescape
    • EVE Online
    • Second Life
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Neocron
    • Anarchy Online
     
    The EQers seem to think that EQ defined the way MMOs were at the time. Your 'golden age' encompassed a lot more than just the masochistic monotony of EQ, but acknowledging that would shatter your illusions of The Way It Was.


     

     

     

     

     

    - EQ could be soloed

    - EQ was nothing like monotonous

    (Played it for years)

    ****************************
    Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
    ****************************

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by dcrose01
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    Clearly you have either, 1: never experience a golden age mmo , or 2: are more bitter then the aformentioned "bittervet". You are missing the point entierly. If we the vets have to explain it you won't ever get. But clearly you my friend, are in the minority here.

    I did play few of the "golden age MMOs". Wasn't impressed. Actually I was surprised how much people enjoyed simple things such as grinding and spawncamping. Todays market would not swallow that.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Posts about the Golden Age of MUDs and the "real gamers" who played them.

    You just won every possible thing - ever.

  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member
    What I miss the most is the 'not knowing'.  What I mean is that with some of those first games, I didn't know what was going to happen next -- and to me that was darn exciting.  But now, well, you pretty much know. 
  • MuppetierMuppetier SouthamptonPosts: 277Member

    The golden age of (themepark) MMOs is now.

     

    WOW, GW2, TERA, AION, RIFT, TSW, LOTRO,  SWTOR plus many others. There have never been so many high quality offerings in the MMO market.

     

    2013 promises ESO, Neverwinter and FFXIV.

     

    If you cannot find anything in the above then you have moved on from the genre.

     

     

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Goatgod76
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    And here he is as usual on queue.

    Go play console games...really, because everything you talk about are console game qualities. MMORPG's and console games are a different genre for a reason. Every damn thread that dares say something about games that take time, thinking, or interaction you are sure to jump on. If you don't like the topic...move on and don't reply with your usual garbble of  anti-MMORPG whine.

    They only take time. Not much thinking. Much of it is pointless and tedious.

    I sure don't enjoy being able to get to level cap in a month or less (Without really trying), being able to solo almost everything and not have to talk to another person, have quest NPC's marked with ridiculously large "!" and the accompanying quest being 10 feet away and able to complete in a few minutes for some reward you've already out leveld the use of, etc, etc, etc.....

    I have no trouble with level caps and the time it takes to get there. And I didn't even mention it here. However, I do not approve the way many games try to stretch the game by adding level ups that give you practically nothing and then force you to grind for them.

    Never mentioned the icons above NPCs either, but it does serve a purpose. I never thought it was fun searching for an NPC I need to return a quest to or read through walls of text to find out just how many boars I need to slay. Lets face it, whatever story is in there, the quests will always be along the same lines of kill X, fetch Y, be a good errand boy and take this to Z...

    But I don't find EVERY thread someone is talking about those kinds, or talking about things they enjoy in them, or miss from a particular one that is closed down because everyone got bored of it and the population fell off after 6 months or less and do what you do. Just stop already.

    I don't do that for any game. Games end for me, every game - even your "golden age ones". When I get bored, thats it, I don't look back.

    Why do you come to this site or play MMORPG's if you don't like them as they were intended. Again...there is a reason they are a seperate genre. I have a full time job and responsibilities, but I still play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which isn't instant gratification, etc. I find or make the time. I take it at the pace I can enjoy it and progress at my own pace. If you can't find the time, then maybe it's time to stop playing MMORPG's or it isn't the genre for you.

    Never inteded to be like you said. And I've played Vanguard myself. Being a student I have quite a lot of time. Didn't like it specifically because it had nothing new or interesting in it, it was grindy and had old school values. If you are entertained, fine. Just don't tell me how to enjoy my games.

    All this "supposed to be" talk is you wishing you could turn the clock ten years. Its not about what MMOs should or shouldn't have, its about you living in the past and refusing to move on.

    And I know this will probably get me a warning or ban, but cripes...enough is enough.

     

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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