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MMORPGs; Am I getting old, OR Have they Betrayed me.

13

Comments

  • SpectralHunterSpectralHunter So CalPosts: 394Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by Enigmatus

    Something that bugs me: If you love the old games so much, why don't you go back and play those games, instead of lining up to buy the next "shallow, cash grab" like everyone else? Don't you think you are kinda being hypocritical by saying how amazing those games in the past were, and then saying the recent games are shit, but then you go and buy those new games anyways? Wouldn't you be able to send the message that "you don't want these new shallow cash grabs" by not buying them in the first place much more effectively?

    These are MMOs, so even the really old ones would still have some people watching over them to some degree. I'd figure they would notice your preferences better if you actually stuck to the game you said was superior, rather than proclaiming it while playing one of the "cash grabs." Just saying.

    Cmon Enigma, you know the answer to that.

      If he went back and played the old games he would realize they are just the same as the new games and that would blow the whole illusion, leaving him with nothing to whine about.

     

    You pretty much nailed it, and it explains a lot of posts on MMORPG.com. People constantly reminisce about the golden era of MMO's when things took forever to accomplish, everything you did was bogged down by overtly stupid mechanics, and the games were "worlds" instead of lobbies or some equally nebulous complaint.

    It's sad. It's like reading the memoirs of an old man who refused to change with or accept the times, and as a result remained in a perpetual state of disappointment and pessimism. When the genre shows signs of moving in a different directon, which it does, people continue to complain that it's not moving fast enough or the new direction isn't backwards enough.

    Over a decade has passed since that "golden era" of MMOs. Teenagers and adults once enthralled by these games are now jaded and burned out. Despite knowing that they don't enjoy the genre as it is, they refuse to move on. They still go out and buy the most recent MMO instead of going back to a game they know they'll enjoy. It boggles my mind that people would willingly stick around and spend money on something they proclaim to dislike and, at the same time, stop supporting the games that they truly did like.

    I don't think a lot of people are disputing that MMOs haven't improved in some areas.  UI and graphics have certainly improved over the years.  That doesn't mean everything that has changed has changed for the better.

  • r3zs1ckn3ssr3zs1ckn3ss Wauwatosa, WIPosts: 360Member Uncommon
    A lot of the MMO community has gotten picky over the past few years. They want this, they want that. NOTHING that has to do with the things that makes an MMO successful. I mean there are standards made by WoW, great combat from Tera, and a broader range of possibilities from games like Rift and Secret World. It all comes down to nerfing this or that, spec trees, blah blah blah. But what about game environment? A game that was virtually huge and didn't have these invisible walls to take away from the fun of exploring. A combat system involving hit boxes? The list goes on. Like in Aion. World travel was limited. The questing was linear and at least with WoW there were multiple starting zones for each race including multiple quest paths you could take. Then you have the Korean grinding influence that seems to get shaved off once a game hits our shores. MMO leveling should be a grind. No one should have a capped character in a week. Make people earn those levels. But it's whatever. Becuz of these things I haven't been excited enough to dedicate my life to an MMO like I use to with WoW. MMO's these days are just not good enough. As much as this site hypes BS over games that aren't even developed yet, I don't forsee an actual "WoW Killer" any time soon.

    New build in progress.
    Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ezpz77ezpz77 Beale, CAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by SpectralHunter
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by Enigmatus

    Something that bugs me: If you love the old games so much, why don't you go back and play those games, instead of lining up to buy the next "shallow, cash grab" like everyone else? Don't you think you are kinda being hypocritical by saying how amazing those games in the past were, and then saying the recent games are shit, but then you go and buy those new games anyways? Wouldn't you be able to send the message that "you don't want these new shallow cash grabs" by not buying them in the first place much more effectively?

    These are MMOs, so even the really old ones would still have some people watching over them to some degree. I'd figure they would notice your preferences better if you actually stuck to the game you said was superior, rather than proclaiming it while playing one of the "cash grabs." Just saying.

    Cmon Enigma, you know the answer to that.

      If he went back and played the old games he would realize they are just the same as the new games and that would blow the whole illusion, leaving him with nothing to whine about.

     

    You pretty much nailed it, and it explains a lot of posts on MMORPG.com. People constantly reminisce about the golden era of MMO's when things took forever to accomplish, everything you did was bogged down by overtly stupid mechanics, and the games were "worlds" instead of lobbies or some equally nebulous complaint.

    It's sad. It's like reading the memoirs of an old man who refused to change with or accept the times, and as a result remained in a perpetual state of disappointment and pessimism. When the genre shows signs of moving in a different directon, which it does, people continue to complain that it's not moving fast enough or the new direction isn't backwards enough.

    Over a decade has passed since that "golden era" of MMOs. Teenagers and adults once enthralled by these games are now jaded and burned out. Despite knowing that they don't enjoy the genre as it is, they refuse to move on. They still go out and buy the most recent MMO instead of going back to a game they know they'll enjoy. It boggles my mind that people would willingly stick around and spend money on something they proclaim to dislike and, at the same time, stop supporting the games that they truly did like.

    I don't think a lot of people are disputing that MMOs haven't improved in some areas.  UI and graphics have certainly improved over the years.  That doesn't mean everything that has changed has changed for the better.

     

    I agree with that, but that wasn't my point. People 'round here get all worked up and say the genre is dying, or MMO's have betrayed them (lol, really?) or some other type of generalized, sensationalist rubbish. So what do they do about it? They refuse to move on or go play a game they like. It's self-inflicted misery. If a person says they're fed up with themeparks and enjoys the older style games, then why don't they go and play the older style game instead of running out and buying every new release? It frazzles my melon.

    I hate MMORPG analogies... especially food analogies, but I'm going to use one anyways. If I enjoy an older, more rustic version of Shepard's Pie, I'm going to eat that one. I'm not going to go out and buy up every single modern version of it and expect it to suit my tastes.

     

  • r3zs1ckn3ssr3zs1ckn3ss Wauwatosa, WIPosts: 360Member Uncommon
    I would be happy if they took all the successful aspects of today's MMO's and apply them into one game. And can we get a character customization as good as the failed game Aion? I don't like looking like anyone else in the least. Human males in almost every MMO are overly muscle bound and have the dumbest look on their faces. Why the hell would anyone wanna play a human? I play one everyday. But I don't look stupid doing it........most of the time.

    New build in progress.
    Stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    seems that games now are not deep enough, like if they were fast made for careless users.

    but I guess not only, also we playing like same kind of games over and over, they are not coming new anymore, just one more similar but smaller content and strong impression of deja vu and spending money for nothing much.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • paulythebpaulytheb Wauwatosa, WIPosts: 261Member Uncommon

    I don't want to butt heads or anything I just wanted to point out my experience of the last several years.

    Bought GW2 in April when pre order launched.(Was a birthday gift- I only got it due to no sub fee or I would have passed.)

    Bought SWTOR the December before that. ( I had buyers remorse almost immediatly.)

    Bought Wow Cata the year before that. (I only remember I didn't stay long enough to make the first raid.)

    I'm not buying into these "New" games anymore after even this small recent sample.But one game a year is hardly akin to enabling addicted game companies into releasing crap games for a quick money grab.

    I know for sure I am buying way less games then I did as little as 5 years ago.Even with Steam. I have like 60-70 Playstation and like 50 playstation 2 games. I must have over a hundred old PC games from Master of Orion and Master of Magic and old  SSI gold box DnD games to the original elder scrolls Arena game and Warcraft II and III  and Diablo and Diablo 2 ( I even have the little known original Diablo expansion Hellfire)  Might and Magics up to 6 or 7 , Kotor, Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Civilization games, GalCiv games, sins of a solar empire, a bunch of sims games, wizardry games, Ultima 1 to I don't know how many, all of the x com games,  and dozens more that I can't remember. I would have to go dig out my boxes.

    But, I only have about 8 Playstation 3 games, and like I said at the beginning of my post I haven't been buying many PC games either.

    I have done what some of you said gamers are not doing. I am taking my ball and going home. I only stop in at sites like these to see what is going on because I want a new game. So I keep up on the news. Its going to take a lot to get me back into a mmo though, the recent weak offerings have me agreeing with the threads like this one and even less willing to part with my money.

     

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • risenbonesrisenbones Galesburg, ILPosts: 194Member

    Your getting old is the simple answer and your suffering from old-timers disease.  Don't worry most of us who finished school over a decade or so ago have it.

     

    It's the same with everything the stuff we did and remember from our late high school and college years you know back in the days when bills were someone elses problem.  The movies were better, comics made sence and you could actually relate and understand the words to songs you listened to.  Today movies are crap, comics are stupid and how anyone can listen to that stuff they call music these days is beyond all human understanding.  You know the same stuff our parents used to say to us about what we watched read and listened to.

     

    So don't worry drag your ratty old comfortable chair out onto the front porch you know the one your wife is insisting you should of thrown out a few years back and practice yelling at the kids to get the hell off my lawn.

    The lesser of two evils is still evil.

    There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Spector88

    "This may come as a surprise, but despite your earlier beliefs, you are not the center of the world. These games are not made for you, specifically. They never were. So do us a solid and cut the victim routine"

     

    - I guess that's why MMORPG's are thriving and all the latest releases aren't being flamed into the grown. Kinda hard to bash me for being the center of the world, when each big release is met with disappointment.

     

    Um, the MMO marketplace is bigger than it's ever been, there are more games available than there ever have been at any point in MMO history.  In fact, there are too many games available, there just aren't enough players available to go around.  And don't take these forums as an indication that these games are a disappointment, the people who matter aren't posting here, they're out playing the games.

    If MMOs werern't doing so well, they wouldn't be putting out so damn many.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Spector88

    "This may come as a surprise, but despite your earlier beliefs, you are not the center of the world. These games are not made for you, specifically. They never were. So do us a solid and cut the victim routine"

     

    I hate to break it to you but when it comes to buying games and spending my own money, I am the center of the universe.

    Cool.  If you don't like what's out there, stop spending your money and go find something else to do.  Amazingly simple.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • steamtanksteamtank Rochester, NYPosts: 385Member

    The games that retained me the longest simply dont exist anymore.

    CoX was an on again off again love for me. I had a solid 3 years in 8 of paid played time

    WoW.... until TBC i was a diehard. once my guild was destroyed by the removal of the 40 man raid system and i went casual. I lost my love in TBC and dropped for a long while. I tried again in WotLK but... it was just so easy. I didnt need to rely on my guild for anything, i barely had to keep an eye open to raid. Everything just felt so rehashed. So I quit.

     

    CoX and Vanilla WoW don't exist for me. =(

     

    WAR almost kept me. I could deal with class imba. that was fine.... it was each server having a 'winner' and a loser' with no 3rd faction to balance.... it went downhill so fast i could barely blink.  I even switched factions on my server to try and help (my server had a very fierce but friendly rivalry) being able to zap my former guildmates was amusing (while telling them i was doing so in vent =P )  but .... the overwhelming crush every single day with no honest means of winning just lost me.

     

    i apparently want a 3 faction superhero grinder where only 5% see endgame =P  guess im SoL  >_<

     

     

     

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member

    I can't be the only one who realizes that MMOs were *NEVER* virtual worlds, they have always been level-driven treadmills, the whole point of logging on is to get XP and get gear and get weapons to kill things.  That's the point and purpose of an MMO, it always has been and always will be.  There is a point in every game when you've essentially won, you hit end-game, there is no more real progression, it's just a different type of treadmill.  I don't consider any game where you have a goal, in this case progression, to be a virtual world.

    To me, a virtual world is like one of the old-time text-based social MU*s.  There was no game-controlled combat.  There were no levels.  There was no gear, no weapons, no killing.  There was no point to being there.  The point was whatever you made of it.  If you wanted to get into a fight with someone, you both just typed out what you did and you came to a mutual decision who won.  It was 100% virtual world, 100% roleplaying because you could do absolutely anything you wanted to do.  People stayed in those games for years and years on end.  My longest was 16 years with *ONE SINGLE CHARACTER*.  You lived a virtual life because that's all there was to do!

    Those days are  gone and aren't coming back and certainly, MMOs were never meant to take their place. 

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 416Member Uncommon

    Part of the answer is in the question, regardless of the state of today's games. Even if your perfect game released, the ultimate end-stop game tailored just for your needs and desires, you would get tired of it within a shorter time-span than before. Why? Because you already know the in's and out's of these kinds of games. You've seen it all. Even a game with insane innovation would have to follow certian recipes and base-rules that all MMO's share. These "new innovative features" are quickly played through, leaving you with the same kind of base game that you've always played. Even if your favorite game of all time re-launched with up-to-date graphics and top-notch features, you'd play through it quicker and get burned out faster.

     

    It doesn't matter what kind of activity/hobby we talk about. After some time it's not the same anymore and you can never go back. It can never be "your first true MMO experience" all over again. Your best bet is to hit your head hard enough to produce a complete memory wipe, then start playing MMO's (the trick is to survive and not damage anything important).

     

    Take any experience in your life as an example, then evaluate if doing it a second time would be/was just as cool as the first time you did it.

     

    This is the exact reason why i feel sorry for game developers these days. They have to live up to unreal expectations based on millions of individuals personal experiences of when they lost their virginity. It's an impossible task.

     

    tldr; You're getting old.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by ezpz77
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by Enigmatus

    Something that bugs me: If you love the old games so much, why don't you go back and play those games, instead of lining up to buy the next "shallow, cash grab" like everyone else? Don't you think you are kinda being hypocritical by saying how amazing those games in the past were, and then saying the recent games are shit, but then you go and buy those new games anyways? Wouldn't you be able to send the message that "you don't want these new shallow cash grabs" by not buying them in the first place much more effectively?

    These are MMOs, so even the really old ones would still have some people watching over them to some degree. I'd figure they would notice your preferences better if you actually stuck to the game you said was superior, rather than proclaiming it while playing one of the "cash grabs." Just saying.

    Cmon Enigma, you know the answer to that.

      If he went back and played the old games he would realize they are just the same as the new games and that would blow the whole illusion, leaving him with nothing to whine about.

     

    You pretty much nailed it, and it explains a lot of posts on MMORPG.com. People constantly reminisce about the golden era of MMO's when things took forever to accomplish, everything you did was bogged down by overtly stupid mechanics, and the games were "worlds" instead of lobbies or some equally nebulous complaint.

    It's sad. It's like reading the memoirs of an old man who refused to change with or accept the times, and as a result remained in a perpetual state of disappointment and pessimism. When the genre shows signs of moving in a different directon, which it does, people continue to complain that it's not moving fast enough or the new direction isn't backwards enough.

    Over a decade has passed since that "golden era" of MMOs. Teenagers and adults once enthralled by these games are now jaded and burned out. Despite knowing that they don't enjoy the genre as it is, they refuse to move on. They still go out and buy the most recent MMO instead of going back to a game they know they'll enjoy. It boggles my mind that people would willingly stick around and spend money on something they proclaim to dislike and, at the same time, stop supporting the games that they truly did like.

    Nah, I voice my opinion all the time and continue to play the old games.

     

    It also isn't a refusal of change either. It is not accepting change that isn't for the better. UI improvements have been made. Game mechanics have often been dumber down and destroyed into a LCD boring machine. There is no excitement or challenge in games anymore because we now teach newer generations that you shouldn't have to fail and let's not keep score so you don't feel bad.

    Now when you die in a game, nothing really happens. You just continue on your way. In fact I've used deaths as a form of quick travel in several newer MMOs (sad part is when trying to die it still takes a while). Why explore when you can have a game that marks everything on the map and tells you the path to travel?

     

    The true problem that most won't accept is that there are several different MMO groups. However, companies treat the MMO community as just one group with one set of preferences. So the same game targetting the same group keeps getting made over and over and over. No one has stopped to realize there are other groups as well. A proper, and most successful market, would have big name games for each type of group. We are missing that so there is a lot of division. Those who like it and say "you just don't like change" and those who see that no one is making games for them.

     

    So yes, there are those of us who still play the old games and support what we like (why do you think all of those old games are still running? If no one was supporting them, they wouldn't be here). But there are a group of people who won't play the old ones, don't like the new ones, and demand they make new ones like the old ones without speaking with their wallets.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    I can't be the only one who realizes that MMOs were *NEVER* virtual worlds, they have always been level-driven treadmills, the whole point of logging on is to get XP and get gear and get weapons to kill things.  That's the point and purpose of an MMO, it always has been and always will be.  There is a point in every game when you've essentially won, you hit end-game, there is no more real progression, it's just a different type of treadmill.  I don't consider any game where you have a goal, in this case progression, to be a virtual world.

    To me, a virtual world is like one of the old-time text-based social MU*s.  There was no game-controlled combat.  There were no levels.  There was no gear, no weapons, no killing.  There was no point to being there.  The point was whatever you made of it.  If you wanted to get into a fight with someone, you both just typed out what you did and you came to a mutual decision who won.  It was 100% virtual world, 100% roleplaying because you could do absolutely anything you wanted to do.  People stayed in those games for years and years on end.  My longest was 16 years with *ONE SINGLE CHARACTER*.  You lived a virtual life because that's all there was to do!

    Those days are  gone and aren't coming back and certainly, MMOs were never meant to take their place. 

    This is right on.

    Games are not about virtual worlds. They are about deriving pleasure (i.e. FUN) from rewards .. whehter you are getting gear, power (abilities), or see more of the stories.

    I play it as such. I don't want a virtual world. There is already a real one. I want entertainment.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,622Member Uncommon

    Neither.

    A lot of the fun of playing those early MMOs or even those early video games was that they were a brand new thing and we were constantly exposed to things we hadn't seen or done before.

    Hell, I remember parties where people were lined-up 20 deep to play pong. This had nothing to do with the quality of pong nor our youth, it was simply the novelty of interacting with the TV.

    MMOs today are all infinitely more sophisticated, entertaining and better programmed than those of 15 years ago. What they lack is the "Wow!" factor of something that is unique and brand new. Changes are now incrementakl and refinements on the things we have all seen 100 times before.

    MMOs now are mainstream entertainment and if you're going to play them its because you enjoy this now mature genre. if you expect a new title to feel as fresh and exciting as the first ones you played back when the genre was being invented, you're just setting yourself up for dissapointment.

     

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Neither.

    A lot of the fun of playing those early MMOs or even those early video games was that they were a brand new thing and we were constantly exposed to things we hadn't seen or done before.

    Hell, I remember parties where people were lined-up 20 deep to play pong. This had nothing to do with the quality of pong nor our youth, it was simply the novelty of interacting with the TV.

    MMOs today are all infinitely more sophisticated, entertaining and better programmed than those of 15 years ago. What they lack is the "Wow!" factor of something that is unique and brand new. Changes are now incrementakl and refinements on the things we have all seen 100 times before.

    MMOs now are mainstream entertainment and if you're going to play them its because you enjoy this now mature genre. if you expect a new title to feel as fresh and exciting as the first ones you played back when the genre was being invented, you're just setting yourself up for dissapointment.

     

    I don't think that is correct at all.

    There are several genres of games that I like. One example if FPS. There are still occasional new FPS games that I find very enjoying and can play them for hours on end over and over again. I started the FPS genre with Doom and played all the classics when they were new, like Quake, Half-Life, Counter Strike, Battlefield, etc. I don't hate new ones because they aren't the first ones I played. I like new ones that do it right and make a quality game. Yet at the same time the ones that I think of as being the best over the years (which is very similar to that list of classics I mentioned) are the ones who did go down their own path and make the game unique.

    Yet when it comes to the MMO genre, a genre I like even more than the FPS genre which I love, the past several years have been a massive disappointment. Again this has nothing to do with the games not being the first ones I played. I started with The Realm and continued on through UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, EQ2, AO, WoW etc. The FPS genre keeps breaking sales records each year, the MMO market does not.

    If the whole reasoning was that you only like the first ones you played, I wouldn't have enjoyed so many different MMOs over the span of many years. That argument falls apart instantly. I enjoyed the realm and UO and AC, DAoC, AO, and even WoW for a couple of months (I never found EQ to be my taste)..

    The reason I enjoyed so many MMOs over the years is that they approach things in their own way, made things unique to them. However for the past 6 years or so they've done nothing but try to clone what already exists as the "main" model, the WoW model. The games feel boring in minutes. They offer nothing knew. They don't have a fresh voice, or interesting stories. The classes aren't fun. It is just the same exact game as you played before, and before, and before. That is a boring terrible situation.

    And it isn't just a few gamers. It is rare for an MMO released in the past few years to get their investment back. That is because the majority see through the boring same game as the last and quit the game's instantly. Within the first couple months new MMOs have a tiny fraction of the players they did at launch. That isn't good, that isn't a sign of quality.

     

     

    In the end the reason is simply. Companies aren't putting out good products.

    It isn't the first time in gaming history this happened. It happened with Atari games and destroyed the system along with gamers views of game companies for a while. It happens in the movies when an action flick set in Europe gets big money and so then 10 more studios all crank out copy cat action flicks in Europe. Audiences get bored, sales go down, companies lose money.

    Eventually it should get better for two reasons. 1) It won't look like an easy money genre anymore so fewer companies will be putting out games and 2) those who keep putting them out will learn they need to change things up.

     

  • RajCajRajCaj Lafayette, LAPosts: 694Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Boneserino
    Originally posted by Enigmatus

    Something that bugs me: If you love the old games so much, why don't you go back and play those games, instead of lining up to buy the next "shallow, cash grab" like everyone else? Don't you think you are kinda being hypocritical by saying how amazing those games in the past were, and then saying the recent games are shit, but then you go and buy those new games anyways? Wouldn't you be able to send the message that "you don't want these new shallow cash grabs" by not buying them in the first place much more effectively?

    These are MMOs, so even the really old ones would still have some people watching over them to some degree. I'd figure they would notice your preferences better if you actually stuck to the game you said was superior, rather than proclaiming it while playing one of the "cash grabs." Just saying.

    Cmon Enigma, you know the answer to that.

      If he went back and played the old games he would realize they are just the same as the new games and that would blow the whole illusion, leaving him with nothing to whine about.

    Not true...most of those old games that many reference, when speaking of the MMO glory days, do not exist in the form that they did.

    Ultima Online, EQ1, Star Wars Galaxies, and Lineage 2 were all good sandbox / hybrid games that focuses on virutal worlds that either no longer exist in the way they once did, or are no longer operational.

    Most of these games changed to adapt to the competition that emerged with mainstream / pop MMOs...primarily WOW and its gear centric linear progression model.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    MMOs now are mainstream entertainment and if you're going to play them its because you enjoy this now mature genre. if you expect a new title to feel as fresh and exciting as the first ones you played back when the genre was being invented, you're just setting yourself up for dissapointment.

     

    This ^^^

    I enjoy MMOs as they are now. Some are actually pretty good SP and small group co-op games.

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member

    Although I'm 23, I too am finding it harder and harder to get excited about future video game releases. I've pretty much moved into the realm of table top games and card games again to ease the pain, and I've given up on video games.

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • ObiClownobiObiClownobi CoruscantPosts: 186Member
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Neither.

    A lot of the fun of playing those early MMOs or even those early video games was that they were a brand new thing and we were constantly exposed to things we hadn't seen or done before.

    Hell, I remember parties where people were lined-up 20 deep to play pong. This had nothing to do with the quality of pong nor our youth, it was simply the novelty of interacting with the TV.

    MMOs today are all infinitely more sophisticated, entertaining and better programmed than those of 15 years ago. What they lack is the "Wow!" factor of something that is unique and brand new. Changes are now incrementakl and refinements on the things we have all seen 100 times before.

    MMOs now are mainstream entertainment and if you're going to play them its because you enjoy this now mature genre. if you expect a new title to feel as fresh and exciting as the first ones you played back when the genre was being invented, you're just setting yourself up for dissapointment.

     

    I don't think that is correct at all.

    There are several genres of games that I like. One example if FPS. There are still occasional new FPS games that I find very enjoying and can play them for hours on end over and over again. I started the FPS genre with Doom and played all the classics when they were new, like Quake, Half-Life, Counter Strike, Battlefield, etc. I don't hate new ones because they aren't the first ones I played. I like new ones that do it right and make a quality game. Yet at the same time the ones that I think of as being the best over the years (which is very similar to that list of classics I mentioned) are the ones who did go down their own path and make the game unique.

    Yet when it comes to the MMO genre, a genre I like even more than the FPS genre which I love, the past several years have been a massive disappointment. Again this has nothing to do with the games not being the first ones I played. I started with The Realm and continued on through UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, EQ2, AO, WoW etc. The FPS genre keeps breaking sales records each year, the MMO market does not.

    If the whole reasoning was that you only like the first ones you played, I wouldn't have enjoyed so many different MMOs over the span of many years. That argument falls apart instantly. I enjoyed the realm and UO and AC, DAoC, AO, and even WoW for a couple of months (I never found EQ to be my taste)..

    The reason I enjoyed so many MMOs over the years is that they approach things in their own way, made things unique to them. However for the past 6 years or so they've done nothing but try to clone what already exists as the "main" model, the WoW model. The games feel boring in minutes. They offer nothing knew. They don't have a fresh voice, or interesting stories. The classes aren't fun. It is just the same exact game as you played before, and before, and before. That is a boring terrible situation.

    And it isn't just a few gamers. It is rare for an MMO released in the past few years to get their investment back. That is because the majority see through the boring same game as the last and quit the game's instantly. Within the first couple months new MMOs have a tiny fraction of the players they did at launch. That isn't good, that isn't a sign of quality.

     

     

    In the end the reason is simply. Companies aren't putting out good products.

    It isn't the first time in gaming history this happened. It happened with Atari games and destroyed the system along with gamers views of game companies for a while. It happens in the movies when an action flick set in Europe gets big money and so then 10 more studios all crank out copy cat action flicks in Europe. Audiences get bored, sales go down, companies lose money.

    Eventually it should get better for two reasons. 1) It won't look like an easy money genre anymore so fewer companies will be putting out games and 2) those who keep putting them out will learn they need to change things up.

     

    Well said, that saves me minutes trying to write that.

    image
    "It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  • RilmanRilman IpswichPosts: 35Member
    I think they concentrated on pleasure center studies, like rats clicking a button for a treat and how to make it more addictive for too long, they forgot about actually making something fun.
  • Monamia222Monamia222 pineville, LAPosts: 53Member

    I feel your pain.  I still have my notebook of hand made maps from years of EQ before ingame maps were available.  *sighs*

    What fun that was.

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Monamia222

    I feel your pain.  I still have my notebook of hand made maps from years of EQ before ingame maps were available.  *sighs*

    What fun that was.

    Not fun at all.

    I still have the grid map from Might & Magic (yes, the first one). Mapping is trivial, with little challenge and basically a chore. That is not why i play a game.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member

    Maybe MMO developers have come to realize that it is impossible to please the "old school vets"...so why try. Instead, their focus is on obtaining NEW players and keeping their current happy players happy. These new and current players aren't looking for a an MMO made in the good old days. They are lokking for and accustomed to the modern MMO. Thus, the development dollars go into these games at the expense of creating a game with old-school features that people on these forum claim they crave.

     

     

     

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ezpz77

    I hate MMORPG analogies... especially food analogies, but I'm going to use one anyways. If I enjoy an older, more rustic version of Shepard's Pie, I'm going to eat that one. I'm not going to go out and buy up every single modern version of it and expect it to suit my tastes.

    To continue your hated analogy... we can't have our rustic version of shepard's pie anymore because the recipe has long since been changed.  The resturant may still exist but the food is different.

    Not to mention, even though shepard's pie maybe my favorite meal, I'm not going to eat it every day for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    Also just because you have a favorite meal does not mean you stop trying new things.  You may not like most of the new things you try but you don't give up.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

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