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Why do most current MMOs suck? Why do we keep buying them?

bunzagabunzaga Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 30Member

I have noticed an extreme decline in the quality of gameplay experience with most of the modern MMOs.  I think this is an indication of the drive behind why these companies make MMOs these days: Money.

I long for the day when an MMO is developed by someone who actually PLAYS mmos, and doesn't just look at another company, and tries to copy cat what they did.  Rather than looking at a chart or graph for potential sales, how about doing a bit of market reserach and ask GAMERS: 'What is fun to play?"

Is it fun to go talk to an NPC, read a bunch of nonsense about why he wants you to kill 10 rats, then run to the area where the rats are, kill 10, then run back, get a reward, and then do the same thing 1000's more times?  In my opinion: No it is not.  Yet time and again, these companies do this simple minded mechanic, to waste our time and fill their game with mundane manotony.

I have played and beta tested countless games, all of which are mmo, and most have some form of PvP.  It disgusts me, how often these games are just the same regirtated game as all the others before them.  Their beta testers and enthusiasts, will make comments or suggestions, which go unheard or unheeded.  It's like they can't think for themselves, they have to just stick to the current band wagon of success.

My first MMO was Ultima Online.  No game has ever come close to the feeling of adventure that game offered.  I would log in, and every single night would have a different outcome.  I might farm gold off Ogre Lords, or raise stats in the Bone Knight Room, or maybe I would hear 'Corp Por' before a 'Flame Strike' and die to a PKer, loose all my gear, and have to start over, or go PK Hunting, where a few of us would roam around looking for PKers.  It was a world full of adventure, and diversity.

These days, the industry is full of busness minded money makers, who have no clue what makes a fun game, and what makes it even worse, is we pay them for it.  Appearantly Quests+Crappy PvP+Tits == Money, and it will for as long as we keep feeding them.

Like most of you, I am looking for that epic PvP rpg game, which I can spend years playing.  I thought it was going to be Guild Wars 2, but unfortuneatly, I lost interest after a couple of months.  I really don't care if I have to purchase it and pay for a subscription, I just want it to be worth my TIME and my money.

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Comments

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Its a combination of many things and as more gamers come into the community those things grow and keep on growing. Everyone wants something different, whine, complain, andeverything else they can think of. Game companies think their eye candy games are what gamers want and arent making proper mmorpg's. Story vs content vs pvp vs open world vs features vs easy vs indepth vs cookie cutters vs sandbox. So many variations. But games of yesterday still out do games of today. No game released today is even on level with older mmorpgs, but the community prefers these games so they are easy, fast paced, and has a story. But lacks longevity, creativity, and immersion.

    People bounce from game to game now, and the industry is in a rut. I do hope this ends soon, i would like to get back to mmorpgs that are worth a damn.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunzaga

     

     Appearantly Quests+Crappy PvP+Tits == Money, and it will for as long as we keep feeding them.

     

    Yep, indeed it does.  Not so much lately, but a couple years back the advertising artwork was incredible.  I would look at the ad and wonder... "what exactly is the focus of the game other than the red-heads cleavage?"  *grin*

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Contrary to popular belief most current MMO's are quite fun.  You jsut demand something from an MMO that sucks and will never sell.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    Because most MMO are actually pretty good.

    You know all this people who spend hundred or even thousand of hours on a game and say the game suck... If the game really do suck, why would you spend that much time playing them.

    Why do you even spend month on GW2 if it suck?  Dont' make sense.

     

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member

    IMO, its a catch 22 for the game developer.

    People say they want something new and innovative, and yet when it comes out, all of a sudden it sucks because its not like so and so previous game.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    So many silly assumptions in the quesiton.

     

    1) "Suck"? You mean you don't like them. People don't spend months playing games they think are sucking.

    2) "we" .. who are "we"

    3) "buying them"? MOre and more MMOs are going F2P. A majority of MMO players don't "buy" anything .. they pay for free.

  • DartmedDartmed AthensPosts: 36Member
    I am sure that this thread will conclude as a themepark vs sandbox debate .... 
  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member

    For the same reason that most Fast Food kinda sucks. It's tough to make good food cheap and fast and deliver it on a mass scale and the people who are in the business of running the big chains are very far away from the actual cooking and delivering the food. Most of them probably don't even know how to make toast.

    Difference is in the food biz that while the big bucks may be in pushing quantity it's widely known that you CAN make a very decent living on a much smaller scale by delivering quality ( fine dining). In the MMO biz, everyone seems exclusively focused on pushing quantity (e.g fast food).

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member

    I'm oversimplifying, but I think think a very large factor is themepark vs sandbox (yes, I know, another themepark vs sandbox post).

    Themeparks are much easier to design, develop, market, and maintain. They generally don't require much of an investment from the player as far as time, skill, and mental effort. They don't require a lot of intereaction with fellow players.  They generally don't challenge the player, thereby themepark players tend to not bond with their toons like sandbox (or many RPers). Thus making them easier to quit. Most importantly, they're easy to sell.

    Community or lack thereof is a key feature in themeparks. The ability to solo most, if not all, of a games content means the designers have control over the players experience without having to factor in intereactions with people as a means to get the player to keep playing the game. As long as there's always something to do, the player will keep playing (and paying).

    With sandboxes, you need to have some lightning in a bottle to magically conjure up an amazing community that is comfortable relying on each other longer term for their gameplay needs. Essentially taking the control out of the developers hands. Investors don't really want to do that.  Relying on your players to entertain themselves, even with a sh*t-ton of tools to play with is a massive barrier to entry, and understandably, in all appearances, fiscal suicide.

    On paper, the investor will always go for the easiest path. EA didn't get so huge by being innovative.

    So, in a nutshell, in my opinion, MMO's suck these days because essentially, they require no investment (other than financial). You get in, consume the content, and get out. Wash your hands. Buy another MMO.

     

    To take a swing at your second question...

    For me, (and I think for the OP), I am always looking to get back to that 'first high'. I'll keep trying MMO's (with much less enthusiasm these days) because my first forray into the genre was almost a life changing experience.

    For others new to the genre, I have no idea, other than shiny marketing techniques.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    Don't buy every MMO that comes out thinknig it's going to be the next WoW.  These days, people are practically begging to just give their money away, with pre-ordering for beta access and buying into crowdfunded indie vaporware.  Wait until something gets released, maybe check some review sites to see what overall opinion is, and then buy it after you know it's not a total dog.  Most have some free trial program after a few months anyway, so you could wait for that.

    You make me like charity

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Don't buy every MMO that comes out thinknig it's going to be the next WoW.  These days, people are practically begging to just give their money away, with pre-ordering for beta access and buying into crowdfunded indie vaporware.  Wait until something gets released, maybe check some review sites to see what overall opinion is, and then buy it after you know it's not a total dog.  Most have some free trial program after a few months anyway, so you could wait for that.

    Wise words. If people didn't pay for beta access we wouldn't have to pay for beta access.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Don't buy every MMO that comes out thinknig it's going to be the next WoW.  These days, people are practically begging to just give their money away, with pre-ordering for beta access and buying into crowdfunded indie vaporware.  Wait until something gets released, maybe check some review sites to see what overall opinion is, and then buy it after you know it's not a total dog.  Most have some free trial program after a few months anyway, so you could wait for that.

    Who does that?

    Data shows that a majority of MMO players do not play.

    Personally i don't pay for MMOs. There are more than enough F2P ones.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Dartmed
    I am sure that this thread will conclude as a themepark vs sandbox debate .... 

    Not necessarily, but this topic surfaces way too often. I'm surprised these don't get locked. Or get a sticky of their own.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    I don't buy new games anymore before try or read opinions about.
    Can't tell game I play (or played) sucks, even is it was not great as expected or missing points.
    I see huge difference between just average game and game which sucks.
    I complain about GW2 only because I expected GREAT game, or, at least, game nearly as fun as GW series; then I found not bad but just average game and was disappointed as it is far from my expectations and very far from what I can call GREAT game.

    I think games I've played before were done to bring lot of fun and enjoyment. They were very few games at the beginning and all were innovative and made with care. At least I have not seen any fail game until my be like 2007 or 2008.
    Then we started to have like too many similar games, and while we was sure it's new and innovative, we got down by discover of deja vu.

    I think main problem is here: I want to buy 1 WoW and not 10 WoW-like games (example).

    I think we don't have fun as we feel like already played this (and we were hypo to get new game), it's not mean said game X is bad, but just mean it's nothing new (again)

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    Maybe I'm not as 1337 of a player as the koolkids, but I haven't found that any game that I've played really sucks, just the people that play them (as in, the people in the game make it a crappy experience)  Sure, there might be some flaws, but I can enjoy a game with a broken mechanic/quest and wait for it to get fixed easier than I can wait for an asshole or guild of assholes to quit playing the game.

     

    AoC is a fine example of that. I enjoyed the OW-PvP until a guild of griefers started camping certain areas endlessly forcing people to play the game by avoiding that specific quest area.  I know people that tried to start up playing the game and quit because of them.  Ended up I quit the game eventually because I had friends playing other games.  And the biggest thing that makes an mmo shine is a healthy population.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    Don't buy every MMO that comes out thinknig it's going to be the next WoW.  These days, people are practically begging to just give their money away, with pre-ordering for beta access and buying into crowdfunded indie vaporware.  Wait until something gets released, maybe check some review sites to see what overall opinion is, and then buy it after you know it's not a total dog.  Most have some free trial program after a few months anyway, so you could wait for that.

    Who does that?

    Data shows that a majority of MMO players do not play.

    Personally i don't pay for MMOs. There are more than enough F2P ones.

    The F2P systems are a big reason why MMO quality has gone down, due to the companies having to focus on monatizing every little thing rather than making the content and immersion good.

    Having said that, the thread is obviously not about F2P games, if you read the title.

    You make me like charity

  • exwinexwin Oak Ridge, TNPosts: 221Member

    I think developers are missing a step in the process these days. In the past was something like:

    1. Make great game
    2. People play and love it
    3. Profit
    It seems lately they are more interested in #3. Current model kinda looks like:
    1. Release unfinished game
    2. People play it and get bored in 2 weeks
    3. Free to play
     
     
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

    Themeparks are much easier to design, develop, market, and maintain.

    Finally, someone agree with what I think.

    I keep hearing people say sandbox is easier to design because they don't need endless content like themepark do.  Players can find ways to entertain themself.  Which is a bunch of non sense. 

    Themepark is much easier to design since all the developer need is to creat some carrot for player to chase. 

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,207Member Uncommon

    I don't buy them.

    Most of them i pass and for  those i'm interesting in, i always organise myself a key "that other way".

     

    image
  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon
    Topic invalid. Argument voided.

    There is nothing wrong with MMOs. This batch of MMOs simply does not interest you.

    Oh for the love of Asuryan! If you Like RTSes, but don't Like Total War franchise(for example) would you jump up and Down cussing the very universe because it is not your flavour? Why in the nine blazes did you buy Vanilla instead of strawberry anyhow???

    Logic is naught here...
  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Topic invalid. Argument voided.

    There is nothing wrong with MMOs. This batch of MMOs simply does not interest you.

    Oh for the love of Asuryan! If you Like RTSes, but don't Like Total War franchise(for example) would you jump up and Down cussing the very universe because it is not your flavour? Why in the nine blazes did you buy Vanilla instead of strawberry anyhow???

    Logic is naught here...

    Logic truly is naught here...

    Why complain about anything that is bad when it's always a matter of perspective?!

    Garbage is edible, it's just your choice to eat it, and I shouldn't tell you it's gross :P

  • exwinexwin Oak Ridge, TNPosts: 221Member
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Topic invalid. Argument voided.

    There is nothing wrong with MMOs. This batch of MMOs simply does not interest you.

    Oh for the love of Asuryan! If you Like RTSes, but don't Like Total War franchise(for example) would you jump up and Down cussing the very universe because it is not your flavour? Why in the nine blazes did you buy Vanilla instead of strawberry anyhow???

    Logic is naught here...

    Logic truly is naught here...

    Why complain about anything that is bad when it's always a matter of perspective?!

    Garbage is edible, it's just your choice to eat it, and I shouldn't tell you it's gross :P

    Agree, why have forums and opinions at all? Just keep eating at McDonalds and buy what ever crap that comes out in a colorful box.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by exwin
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Topic invalid. Argument voided.

    There is nothing wrong with MMOs. This batch of MMOs simply does not interest you.

    Oh for the love of Asuryan! If you Like RTSes, but don't Like Total War franchise(for example) would you jump up and Down cussing the very universe because it is not your flavour? Why in the nine blazes did you buy Vanilla instead of strawberry anyhow???

    Logic is naught here...

    Logic truly is naught here...

    Why complain about anything that is bad when it's always a matter of perspective?!

    Garbage is edible, it's just your choice to eat it, and I shouldn't tell you it's gross :P

    Agree, why have forums and opinions at all? Just keep eating at McDonalds and buy what ever crap that comes out in a colorful box.

    Why do you keep eating at McDonalds and then bitching about it.  Worse yet, you're eating at McDs and bitching you're not getting Tony Roma's for the same price and as fast.  Here's a pro-tip:  You can choose whatever you want to do.  No one is forcing you to eat at McDs.  Can we be done with idiotic food analogies now?

    Persoally, gaming has never been better.  I have more sub-free game choices than I have time to play, more quality games at my disposal than I can find time to play, and am enjoying gaminig more than ever.

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by exwin
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Topic invalid. Argument voided.

    There is nothing wrong with MMOs. This batch of MMOs simply does not interest you.

    Oh for the love of Asuryan! If you Like RTSes, but don't Like Total War franchise(for example) would you jump up and Down cussing the very universe because it is not your flavour? Why in the nine blazes did you buy Vanilla instead of strawberry anyhow???

    Logic is naught here...

    Logic truly is naught here...

    Why complain about anything that is bad when it's always a matter of perspective?!

    Garbage is edible, it's just your choice to eat it, and I shouldn't tell you it's gross :P

    Agree, why have forums and opinions at all? Just keep eating at McDonalds and buy what ever crap that comes out in a colorful box.

    Why do you keep eating at McDonalds and then bitching about it.  Worse yet, you're eating at McDs and bitching you're not getting Tony Roma's for the same price and as fast.  Here's a pro-tip:  You can choose whatever you want to do.  No one is forcing you to eat at McDs.  Can we be done with idiotic food analogies now?

    Persoally, gaming has never been better.  I have more sub-free game choices than I have time to play, more quality games at my disposal than I can find time to play, and am enjoying gaminig more than ever.

    One more food analogy, then no more I swear!

    So let's say that there used to be some really great eateries near where the McD's stands now.  Like a great sushi shop, or even a cool but wierd Vietnamese Pho place. But ever since McD's moved in with their 80 gazillion served sign, all the shops started slinging cheapass burgers and we can't get a decent tekkamaki roll anywhere!

     

  • ikarrianikarrian SPosts: 122Member

    Couldnt agree more with the OP. Started with the same game and its been downhill since that bloody curse of game called World of Warcraft came to this world.

    MMO market was healthy and many game titels with originality in late -90 early 2k. But that is a barely a distant memory now... i keep going back to the old games i used to play.

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