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It's not the Industry Failing, It's you.

xaithianxaithian Medford, ORPosts: 10Member

     Great games have always and will always be created by true gamers and fans.  Not big corporations.  And they are not created overnight, be either of the two.  If you look you will find many "indie" games created all the time.  Many titles are created and spawn all the time.  So if you want companies to stop making crappy games start supporting the little guy.

     Or go back to school and learn to program or texture or create 3D models or write stories or quote literature.'

     The more new hyped titles you buy the more they will make and that will never change.  Kind of like global warming, every fart heats the planet.

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Comments

  • steamtanksteamtank Rochester, NYPosts: 385Member

    i paid for MO

    i win

     

    now give me a non copycat AAA title

  • EnerzealEnerzeal WarringtonPosts: 326Member

    MO, Darkfall, Dark and Light, Mourning.

     

    Paid for all of them, all of them flopped, where's my damn game?

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    I buy games, whether it is small or big.

    I just bought Drox Operative today and that isn't a big-publisher title.

    I bought Hitman Absolution recently and that certainly is a big-publisher title.

    Make good games or get me interested = I will buy it.

    Yes, I am the 'problem' cause I buy the AAA games that is made by the big 'evil' corporation and you know what? Tough.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common
    Originally posted by xaithian

         Great games have always and will always be created by true gamers and fans.  Not big corporations.  And they are not created overnight, be either of the two.  If you look you will find many "indie" games created all the time.  Many titles are created and spawn all the time.  So if you want companies to stop making crappy games start supporting the little guy.

         Or go back to school and learn to program or texture or create 3D models or write stories or quote literature.'

         The more new hyped titles you buy the more they will make and that will never change.  Kind of like global warming, every fart heats the planet.

    yeah, sorry about that :)

     

    image
  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by xaithian

     So if you want companies to stop making crappy games start supporting the little guy.


    I would if the little guy would start making something worth playing. The little guy is as incompetent in making a good game as the big corporations are. Out of the myriads of indie titles there's maybe 1 or two titles worth taking a second look at. If even that

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,508Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    MO, Darkfall, Dark and Light, Mourning.

     

    Paid for all of them, all of them flopped, where's my damn game?

     Check out Pathfinder Online.   Looks like one to keep an eye on.

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon

       Also check out a game called TESO..have you heard of it?  It should rock your world..good or bad  :)

      Sorry..I also support the Evil corporations :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • ScottgunScottgun Williamsville, NYPosts: 356Member

    Actually, from the "33 1/3 Rules of Rock n' Roll" , rule number 25 easily applies to mmorpgs:

     

    25. Cult artists are frequently just as boring and predictable as mainstream ones.

    Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scottgun

    Actually, from the "33 1/3 Rules of Rock n' Roll" , rule number 25 easily applies to mmorpgs:

     

    25. Cult artists are frequently just as boring and predictable as mainstream ones.

    Lol That was great :)  

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    Kickstarter is exactly for this. Without crowdsourcing, most small guys never have the chance to develop any MMOs worth playing, since the customer has been used to paying for the product when it's ready.

    With all this pre-order crap and beta access and whatnot, the customers have sneakily been taught to pay for the products in advance, with no guarantee that the product will be any good.

    I wonder how long it will last, until Caveat Emptor will again reign and people will pay only when they get a working product in their hands.

     

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,034Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xaithian

         Great games have always and will always be created by true gamers and fans.  Not big corporations.  And they are not created overnight, be either of the two.  If you look you will find many "indie" games created all the time.  Many titles are created and spawn all the time.  So if you want companies to stop making crappy games start supporting the little guy.

         Or go back to school and learn to program or texture or create 3D models or write stories or quote literature.'

         The more new hyped titles you buy the more they will make and that will never change.  Kind of like global warming, every fart heats the planet.

    Does the fact that we NEED to go to the indie developer and avoid publishers not actually proof the industry is failing?

    See how my teacher is going to take that logic. "No Ma'am I did not fail this test....you should look at those 3 answer I had right not the 7 that where wrong."

  • ScottgunScottgun Williamsville, NYPosts: 356Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    I wonder how long it will last, until Caveat Emptor will again reign and people will pay only when they get a working product in their hands.

     

    Not anytime soon I expect. Games are luxuries bought with disposable income rather than the last fish at the market that's been sitting in the sun awhile and if you don't buy it, the family doesn't eat. :)

    Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,034Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore

     

    I wonder how long it will last, until Caveat Emptor will again reign and people will pay only when they get a working product in their hands.

     

    "Under the principle of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover damages from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material misrepresentations amounting to fraud."

    Had to read it up as I was not aware of the term, but sounds pretty much what is going on with the kickstarter "donations". Unless the company is trying to fraud I doubt you can actually get your money back if they do not deliver what they promised. 

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member

    You are absolutely right it is me. I refuse to pay for unchallenging shallow game play in a single player world with other players running around doing their own thing anymore. I've pretty much given up on MMOs for now for this reason. Indy MMOs are just as bad in this sense just for different reasons. AAA studios do it to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator and Indies do it due mainly to a lack of funding to back a 4-5 year development cycle. There are a few exceptions but they are few and far between.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member

    Aha.

    The average quality of games coming out of the big publishers is higher than that of the games coming out of "small indie studios". There are a MASSIVE numver of small indie studios out there that develop bad games that never get any "air time" in the media. Just because you aren't aware of those games does not mean that they do not exist. Indeed, relatively few games coming out of indie developers "make the cut" in the moden gaming world, requiring a degree of brilliance or novelty to sell them forward.

    Over the last decade, EA and Activision have been involved in some of the biggest and best games I've ever played. "Big publishers" like Bethesda and Taketwo have released games like Fallout 3, Skyrim and Red Dead Redemption, arguably three of the best gams of this past generation. Mass Effect 2 was a brilliant game, even if it wasn't really and RPG (and the story was lame).

    In the MMO space, only a handful of indie developers have managed to pull off anything resembling a good game. "The little guy" has given us (barely) games like Mortal Online and Darkfall, two of the worst MMOs I've ever played. CCP is perhaps the only indie developer in the MMO space worth its weight by any margin. Certainly the best MMOs right now are the ones coming out of the big developers (which is more a damning criticism of the MMO genre as a whole than it is a praise of big publishers).

    So yeah... you don't really have a point.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,067Member Uncommon
    Finally someone with some balls to call players out!

    The players are just as responsible always laying the blame on developers.

    But hey, we are the consumers aka customers so were always right,... right?

    image

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    Playing AoW. Can't wait for The Repopulation.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xaithian

         Great games have always and will always be created by true gamers and fans.  Not big corporations.  

    Great brain surgery is performed by people who need brain surgery.... great football is played by the Budwiser swilling football fans... great books are written by people who read lots of books... great singers come from people who watch American Iidol...

    See how idiotic that is?

    The lack of appreciation for the talent of good game developers in these forums is just mind boggling.

     

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Finally someone with some balls to call players out!

    The players are just as responsible always laying the blame on developers.

    But hey, we are the consumers aka customers so were always right,... right?

     

    What exactly are players "responsible" for?

    The developers are the people that make the games. They are the people that do the research into what we as consumers want from them. They are tasked with anticipating and catering to our needs, just like any product developer out there. When the developer gets it wrong, and consumers voice their opinions to that effect, it can only be the developers who are to blame.

    I realise that being emo is cool, but I'm really failing to see precisely why I as a consumer should be metaphorically (or literally) self harming myself here?

    Instead of just bashing the drum lid for your own amusement, why don't you actually put a credible argument forward? :)

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by xaithian

    The lack of appreciation for the talent of good game developers in these forums is just mind boggling.

    image

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xaithian

         Great games have always and will always be created by true gamers and fans.  

    Not every indie game is great though, so you aren't really saying much.  I have played Miner Wars and WarZ lately, and they have been sh*t.  I don't waste money on Indie games any more and have given up vistiing the Kickstart site and wasating my time there.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,067Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dotdotdash
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Finally someone with some balls to call players out!

    The players are just as responsible always laying the blame on developers.

    But hey, we are the consumers aka customers so were always right,... right?

     

    What exactly are players "responsible" for?

    The developers are the people that make the games. They are the people that do the research into what we as consumers want from them. They are tasked with anticipating and catering to our needs, just like any product developer out there. When the developer gets it wrong, and consumers voice their opinions to that effect, it can only be the developers who are to blame.

    I realise that being emo is cool, but I'm really failing to see precisely why I as a consumer should be metaphorically (or literally) self harming myself here?

    Instead of just bashing the drum lid for your own amusement, why don't you actually put a credible argument forward? :)

    I actually have in many of my previous post! Do I dare continue to point out the obvious or do you really need graphs, pie charts, and logic?

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scottgun

    Actually, from the "33 1/3 Rules of Rock n' Roll" , rule number 25 easily applies to mmorpgs:

     

    25. Cult artists are frequently just as boring and predictable as mainstream ones.

    ^

    Most of the time indie games aren't any better or more interesting than AAA titles, people are just more impressed that a small, probably inexperienced company managed to make something that didn't completely suck. It's cheering for the underdog, just another kind of mob mentality, except the danger of this one is it makes you feel good about yourself.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • ScottgunScottgun Williamsville, NYPosts: 356Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    In the MMO space, only a handful of indie developers have managed to pull off anything resembling a good game. "The little guy" has given us (barely) games like Mortal Online and Darkfall, two of the worst MMOs I've ever played. CCP is perhaps the only indie developer in the MMO space worth its weight by any margin. Certainly the best MMOs right now are the ones coming out of the big developers (which is more a damning criticism of the MMO genre as a whole than it is a praise of big publishers).

    So yeah... you don't really have a point.

    +1 for truth. Proper mmorpg's are massive undertakings in ways that other genres aren't. I can depend on the local dinner theater to pull off an enjoyable production of A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum. I can't expect them to pull off Wagner's Ring Cycle that won't have an audience tripping over themselves to leave as if the building was on fire. You need a big house, A-list talent, a whole battalion of behind-the-scenes people, and a director with his head screwed on right. There are exceptions of course, but not the rule.

    Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xaithian

         Great games have always and will always be created by true gamers and fans.  Not big corporations.  And they are not created overnight, be either of the two.  If you look you will find many "indie" games created all the time.  Many titles are created and spawn all the time.  So if you want companies to stop making crappy games start supporting the little guy.

         Or go back to school and learn to program or texture or create 3D models or write stories or quote literature.'

         The more new hyped titles you buy the more they will make and that will never change.  Kind of like global warming, every fart heats the planet.

     

    I absolutely agree.

    The market gets what the market asks for. If you do not help show that there is a demand for what you want as a player then how can anyone get upset that no one is making it? Support your chosen sub genre with your dollar, mouthing off on message boards does nothing. Looking for continous reasons to not support indie grass development hurts no one else but you in the long run. You are not entitled to a dev taking a risk in providing a game that you have done nothing to support.

     

    When an indie dev can sell me an entire fun game for less than the cost of a single mount in a typical cash shop I have to wonder why more people are not looking at them.

     

    Ofc, the typical player wants indie risk taking and ground breaking alongside huge budget AAA production values and stability, which is pretty blind to the reality of things.

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