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can i complete inferno without using rmah

sadWindssadWinds nocityPosts: 115Member

hi guys, i jst dinged 60 on my wiz a couple of hours ago, completed hell and nw im doing inferno. I do not intend on using rmah or the gold auction house to buy gear, prefer do it the old school way by means of my own effort in game. I know this sounds stupid but how long will it take for me to get a good enough gear to hopefully complete inferno without any major problem?

Most of the time im joining a public game instead of single player mode and it brings me to another set of question, does solo have better loot drop than multiplayer or isit just the same?

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Comments

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Multiplayer can have slightly better loot drops. As for how long it will take it's highly variable. Don't be in a hurry and be prepared to rethink your strategy. Infeno plays very differently from hell.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • You can most definitely do so. Keep in mind all the stuff on the RMAH has been found by actual players.

    You can get the required gear relatively quick from the regular AH. I think the RMAH is mostly for rich people who are too lazy to actually play the game, and players taking advantage of the former.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member

    They have nerfed the game and removed gear blocks several times, most significantly when monster power was introduced, act1 can be completed in sub60 gear and as far as gah is concerned, you can find gear there that will enable you to complete act4 even for 1-2m total.

    Some blokes even made a video how they survive MP10 in gear from a 1m budget (but it takes long to kill anything) on a cm wizzard. :)

    As of finding it yourself, be prepared to be constantly disappointed, this was one thing that got the hardest hit from the requirement that gear is very random due to the auction houses.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    As of finding it yourself, be prepared to be constantly disappointed, this was one thing that got the hardest hit from the requirement that gear is very random due to the auction houses.

    Flame on!

    :)

     Gear has always been very random. It was very random in D2. Getting a perfect set of the best gear by yourself is time consuming. Getting gear good enough to complete the game and even to get to  paragon 100 is easily accomplished. You just have to heve minimal patience. People just like to whine about the auction houses. You don't need them.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon
    Easily.  You can get anything you need in the gold AH.  If you don't want to use the gold AH it will take longer.
  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    As of finding it yourself, be prepared to be constantly disappointed, this was one thing that got the hardest hit from the requirement that gear is very random due to the auction houses.

    Flame on!

    :)

     Gear has always been very random. It was very random in D2. Getting a perfect set of the best gear by yourself is time consuming. Getting gear good enough to complete the game and even to get to  paragon 100 is easily accomplished. You just have to heve minimal patience. People just like to whine about the auction houses. You don't need them.

    Its not about the perfect set, dont pretend to be dense, these are not battle.net forums, its about the equivalent of 20% attack speed, 2 resist gloves in d2, the effort and chance is incomparable, because this expectation has bloated due to several factors to mainstat+vit+allres+ias+(crit damage or chance, or both) and the chance has dropped due to much more affixes being a possibility for a gear piece.

    And keep in mind it was a long way till more than the hardcore ones were able to complete inferno without the ah, it came just with the monster power update.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    As of finding it yourself, be prepared to be constantly disappointed, this was one thing that got the hardest hit from the requirement that gear is very random due to the auction houses.

    Flame on!

    :)

     Gear has always been very random. It was very random in D2. Getting a perfect set of the best gear by yourself is time consuming. Getting gear good enough to complete the game and even to get to  paragon 100 is easily accomplished. You just have to heve minimal patience. People just like to whine about the auction houses. You don't need them.

    Its not about the perfect set, dont pretend to be dense, these are not battle.net forums, its about the equivalent of 20% attack speed, 2 resist gloves in d2, the effort and chance is incomparable, because this expectation has bloated due to several factors to mainstat+vit+allres+ias+(crit damage or chance, or both) and the chance has dropped due to much more affixes being a possibility for a gear piece.

    And keep in mind it was a long way till more than the hardcore ones were able to complete inferno without the ah, it came just with the monster power update.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

     You never needed any of that to finish the game. I did it before MP in crap gear and I'm not even good. You didn't need gear that good in D2 either. People just have this stupid idea that they need 100k crit damage 500 resist all and whatever to get to the end.  It's worse than WoW players with their gear rating B.S. D2 was harder because you could really screw up a toon with a few misplaced points. In D3 you can respec as needed for each difficulty.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 884Member Uncommon
    To be sure you can do it without using the RMAH.  Doing it solely off of drops can be frustrating and you'll probably end up using the gold AH. Which for me was disappointing because drops were essentially worthless for me only having value for what I could sell them for so I could buy good gear on the gold AH. The thrill of getting loot was extremely diminished
  • sadWindssadWinds nocityPosts: 115Member
    thx for the info guys, i appreciate it :)

    image

  • WahrHeitWahrHeit SantiagoPosts: 54Member Uncommon

    i did it when it was harder....it took a bit to gear up...it was mostly farm over and over act 1.

     

    Because the other acts were insane....But when i finally geared up i was able to end the other acts....But it was always solo or max 1 friend...With pugs or full parties it was impossible.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Gold ah actually has more high end stuff than rmah.

    however, i do use rmah, primarily because the transactional cost is lower. For expensive item, the $1 blizz charge is often lower than a15% gold charge.

    i never put money into the game thoug. In fact, i made a small amount. I still have a $40+ and i use d3 money to buy mop.

  • Lester_CreechLester_Creech nelson, BCPosts: 515Member Common
     The OP is setting his standard of "viable" by being able to randomly sleepwalk through spam killing everything.   You dont need top knotch gear, just find some good team mates and play it slow. It's meant to be noticeably hard....what does this mean to you?  Strategy exists..
  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    As of finding it yourself, be prepared to be constantly disappointed, this was one thing that got the hardest hit from the requirement that gear is very random due to the auction houses.

    Flame on!

    :)

     Gear has always been very random. It was very random in D2. Getting a perfect set of the best gear by yourself is time consuming. Getting gear good enough to complete the game and even to get to  paragon 100 is easily accomplished. You just have to heve minimal patience. People just like to whine about the auction houses. You don't need them.

    Its not about the perfect set, dont pretend to be dense, these are not battle.net forums, its about the equivalent of 20% attack speed, 2 resist gloves in d2, the effort and chance is incomparable, because this expectation has bloated due to several factors to mainstat+vit+allres+ias+(crit damage or chance, or both) and the chance has dropped due to much more affixes being a possibility for a gear piece.

    And keep in mind it was a long way till more than the hardcore ones were able to complete inferno without the ah, it came just with the monster power update.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

     You never needed any of that to finish the game. I did it before MP in crap gear and I'm not even good. You didn't need gear that good in D2 either. People just have this stupid idea that they need 100k crit damage 500 resist all and whatever to get to the end.  It's worse than WoW players with their gear rating B.S. D2 was harder because you could really screw up a toon with a few misplaced points. In D3 you can respec as needed for each difficulty.

    Whats this?

    "Random is the same as in d2" didnt work out, so we try "you dont need this to finish the game" (which noone claimed you do) and "people expect perfect gear" (which again noone claimed you do, neither of my examples is), with a little of "billions of specs are much better" thrown in for flavor?

    Flame on!

    :)

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    As of finding it yourself, be prepared to be constantly disappointed, this was one thing that got the hardest hit from the requirement that gear is very random due to the auction houses.

    Flame on!

    :)

     Gear has always been very random. It was very random in D2. Getting a perfect set of the best gear by yourself is time consuming. Getting gear good enough to complete the game and even to get to  paragon 100 is easily accomplished. You just have to heve minimal patience. People just like to whine about the auction houses. You don't need them.

    Its not about the perfect set, dont pretend to be dense, these are not battle.net forums, its about the equivalent of 20% attack speed, 2 resist gloves in d2, the effort and chance is incomparable, because this expectation has bloated due to several factors to mainstat+vit+allres+ias+(crit damage or chance, or both) and the chance has dropped due to much more affixes being a possibility for a gear piece.

    And keep in mind it was a long way till more than the hardcore ones were able to complete inferno without the ah, it came just with the monster power update.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

     You never needed any of that to finish the game. I did it before MP in crap gear and I'm not even good. You didn't need gear that good in D2 either. People just have this stupid idea that they need 100k crit damage 500 resist all and whatever to get to the end.  It's worse than WoW players with their gear rating B.S. D2 was harder because you could really screw up a toon with a few misplaced points. In D3 you can respec as needed for each difficulty.

    Whats this?

    "Random is the same as in d2" didnt work out, so we try "you dont need this to finish the game" (which noone claimed you do) and "people expect perfect gear" (which again noone claimed you do, neither of my examples is), with a little of "billions of specs are much better" thrown in for flavor?

    Flame on!

    :)

     Random is the same as D2. Random is random. They didn't change the scarcity of gear drops.  It takes less time to finish D3 hell difficulty without using  the auction house than  it did to complete D2 which has no auction house. People just like to pretend it's different and whine about the auction house. People have been claiming you have to use the auction house since before the game even launched. I don't know where you were if you missed that.  Unless you want perfect gear there has never been any reason not to rely only on dropped gear. The need does not exist.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    You can do it just fine on your own.  How long it takes will depend on how lucky you are with drops.  You'll generally have to grind out a few good elite mobs and hopefully get some decent drops.  Don't be afraid to use vendors, because there are a few that seem to sell better than level items.

    Lastly, crafting is a great way to "gamble" for some good stuff, so make sure you are melting the crap items you find rather than vendoring them.  

    You make me like charity

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    Ive never used the RMAH.  You can do inferno MP 1-3 with cheap gear.  The rest will come as you farm your paragon levels up.

    Using the RMAH is just a shortcut.  Play long enough and learn whats valuable for other classes and youll have enough gold to get what you want.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Random is the same as D2. Random is random. They didn't change the scarcity of gear drops.  It takes less time to finish D3 hell difficulty without using  the auction house than  it did to complete D2 which has no auction house. People just like to pretend it's different and whine about the auction house. People have been claiming you have to use the auction house since before the game even launched. I don't know where you were if you missed that.  Unless you want perfect gear there has never been any reason not to rely only on dropped gear. The need does not exist.

    Its not the same, it was even said so by a official post (for those of us that are slower :) ), i guess that is where you were not present.

    And again noone claimed anything about completing the game, i just claimed that it will be a depressing experience the way drops are designed, and it was even a more depressing experience when inferno was harder and it was much more important to have ok gear.

    The simple difference is that there are more affixes to look for per gear piece and more possible affixes per gear piece, and they have already cut some possibilities for ilvl63 gear.

    I am not quite sure the loot frequency even compensates for that yet.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Random is the same as D2. Random is random. They didn't change the scarcity of gear drops.  It takes less time to finish D3 hell difficulty without using  the auction house than  it did to complete D2 which has no auction house. People just like to pretend it's different and whine about the auction house. People have been claiming you have to use the auction house since before the game even launched. I don't know where you were if you missed that.  Unless you want perfect gear there has never been any reason not to rely only on dropped gear. The need does not exist.

    Its not the same, it was even said so by a official post (for those of us that are slower :) ), i guess that is where you were not present.

    And again noone claimed anything about completing the game, i just claimed that it will be a depressing experience the way drops are designed, and it was even a more depressing experience when inferno was harder and it was much more important to have ok gear.

    The simple difference is that there are more affixes to look for per gear piece and more possible affixes per gear piece, and they have already cut some possibilities for ilvl63 gear.

    I am not quite sure the loot frequency even compensates for that yet.

    Flame on!

    :)

     No official post said that. People like to claim that's what Bashiok said but it's not. Apparently you find challenge depressing. I finished the game at 1.03 and it never made me sad. There are more affixes. Only two matter on most pieces and you can adapt to use all but the incorrect stat type and resists or low damage on weapons.  There are also more mobs that drop the best gear besides Baal who was pretty much it in D2.  

    Wyatt Cheng: The auction house has absolutely no effect on drop rates. There are conspiracy theories and misunderstandings, but I do want to re-iterate: there is NO interaction whatsoever. Bashiok mentioned earlier that we took the AH into account, so let me expand a little bit on that.

    The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development, we didn't have an Auction House, and we all played using our own drops only. I've personally leveled multiple characters from 1 to 60 internally before the game came out using only drops that I found -- we all did.

    When we say we "took the AH into account," that means it's one of many factors -- i.e. some players will choose to play without trading, some players would play in a group of 4 where they share drops among each other, and some (as it turns out, many) players would use the AH.

    Three weeks after launch, players' gear is much higher than what we were expecting. When I killed the Butcher on Inferno for the first time, I was using a weapon with 492 DPS. There are also certain passives which are much more powerful than they were during internal development. One With Everything, for example, was basically never used internally because we didn't have an auction House. With the auction house, it feels like a mandatory passive. In retrospect we should have seen it coming. In the game's current state, though, it's a powerful Monk ability that gives Monks a big survivability boost and has some interesting (some would argue fun, others would argue negative) effects on gearing.

    I consider playing without the Auction House to be a very fun way to play the game. I'm personally planning on rolling some new characters that I'll set aside to be "no-AH/no-twink" characters. Much like in D2 when I would make a new character with a friend and we'd agree with each other not to twink our characters out.

    Jay Wilson: And the loot tables are not more vast than D2 because we don't allow items to drop below level 50 in Inferno.

     

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Regosichar
     The OP is setting his standard of "viable" by being able to randomly sleepwalk through spam killing everything.   You dont need top knotch gear, just find some good team mates and play it slow. It's meant to be noticeably hard....what does this mean to you?  Strategy exists..

    The game is definitely hard. In fact, the fun is to move up MP when you find a new better way to play (new builds), or when you upgrade.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Ive never used the RMAH.  You can do inferno MP 1-3 with cheap gear.  The rest will come as you farm your paragon levels up.

    Using the RMAH is just a shortcut.  Play long enough and learn whats valuable for other classes and youll have enough gold to get what you want.

    Don't equate using RMAH as putting money into the game or a short cut.

    I use RMAH to SELL and buy. The reason? Transaction cost is LOWER for expensive items. And to hedge against gold inflation. I never have to put money into the RMAH, and maintain a positive balance (i.e i made money, however small, of the game).

    Gold prices has been plummeting for a whle now from i think a high of $0.50 a million to now ~$0.25 a million. If i have money in the game that i would like to hold for a while (or save up for an upgrade), i would much rather doing it in RMAH, instead in the gold AH.

    I use the gold AH for cheaper items that the fix $1 fee in the RMAH is higher than 15%.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Why wouldnt you be able to complete inferno without using RMAH?

    There is no RMAH for hardcore characters at all. Of course it is possible. Especially for a character that has infinite number of lives.

    Plus I believe that in GAH, there are better items than in RMAH. (correct me if I am wrong)

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    Its not the same, it was even said so by a official post (for those of us that are slower :) ), i guess that is where you were not present.

    And again noone claimed anything about completing the game, i just claimed that it will be a depressing experience the way drops are designed, and it was even a more depressing experience when inferno was harder and it was much more important to have ok gear.

    The simple difference is that there are more affixes to look for per gear piece and more possible affixes per gear piece, and they have already cut some possibilities for ilvl63 gear.

    I am not quite sure the loot frequency even compensates for that yet.

    Flame on!

    :)

     No official post said that. People like to claim that's what Bashiok said but it's not. Apparently you find challenge depressing. I finished the game at 1.03 and it never made me sad. There are more affixes. Only two matter on most pieces and you can adapt to use all but the incorrect stat type and resists or low damage on weapons.  There are also more mobs that drop the best gear besides Baal who was pretty much it in D2.  

    Wyatt Cheng: The auction house has absolutely no effect on drop rates. There are conspiracy theories and misunderstandings, but I do want to re-iterate: there is NO interaction whatsoever. Bashiok mentioned earlier that we took the AH into account, so let me expand a little bit on that.

    The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development, we didn't have an Auction House, and we all played using our own drops only. I've personally leveled multiple characters from 1 to 60 internally before the game came out using only drops that I found -- we all did.

    When we say we "took the AH into account," that means it's one of many factors -- i.e. some players will choose to play without trading, some players would play in a group of 4 where they share drops among each other, and some (as it turns out, many) players would use the AH.

    Three weeks after launch, players' gear is much higher than what we were expecting. When I killed the Butcher on Inferno for the first time, I was using a weapon with 492 DPS. There are also certain passives which are much more powerful than they were during internal development. One With Everything, for example, was basically never used internally because we didn't have an auction House. With the auction house, it feels like a mandatory passive. In retrospect we should have seen it coming. In the game's current state, though, it's a powerful Monk ability that gives Monks a big survivability boost and has some interesting (some would argue fun, others would argue negative) effects on gearing.

    I consider playing without the Auction House to be a very fun way to play the game. I'm personally planning on rolling some new characters that I'll set aside to be "no-AH/no-twink" characters. Much like in D2 when I would make a new character with a friend and we'd agree with each other not to twink our characters out.

    Jay Wilson: And the loot tables are not more vast than D2 because we don't allow items to drop below level 50 in Inferno.

     

    Wierd, they do seem to say that :)

    May be im just reading too much into it, maybe not, but says nothing about inferno

    When the game was first released, there were no enrage timers, and it might have been before "we doubled it" (and i am in no way saying you cannot beat butcher with a 492 dps weapon).

    And this is just for fun, "we didnt really test this" :)

    And jay in now way adresses affixes or loot quality, hes basically answering "do loot tables have more items in them?" (and d2 will win that one always, with its "loot trees" incorporating basically every item in the game for a 85+ monster), it is again player asks A, developer answers B.

    I dunno, maybe they are just bad at PR, but i doubt it, i dont think they dont realize what they are dealing with on battle.net forums, so they must be fogging intentionally. 

    Flame on!

    :)

  • XxGrimmxXXxGrimmxX texarkana, TXPosts: 223Member
    Lol at most of these comments. Yes you can do it, but probably not.
  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon
    You can easily complete inferno without using ther RMAH or GAH. During my time of playing D3 I have never used the RMAH. I don't think any of my friedns have used it. SOme of them don't even know there is an RMAH :D

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Why wouldnt you be able to complete inferno without using RMAH?

    There is no RMAH for hardcore characters at all. Of course it is possible. Especially for a character that has infinite number of lives.

    Plus I believe that in GAH, there are better items than in RMAH. (correct me if I am wrong)

    That is correct. The reason is that RMAH is limited to $250 ... which is equivalent to around $1B and there are items that worth more.

    Secondly, it also don't worth it to use RMAH to do anything that worth less than 5-10M .. so the gAH is a much deeper market.

     

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