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Nvidia's New 'Console'

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  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU. 

    So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 

    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.

    It doesn't matter, because how many people out there would want to stream PC games to a 5" handheld device when they can just get on the PC and play them.  It's streaming them, meaning the PC is going to be in use regardless, so the feature seems a bit limited.  More like a bullet point to check off the back of the box.

    You make me like charity

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Ubitus teaming up with google is far from the only streaming service being worked on. I mean right now, right this very moment you can stream to a tablet and play PC games and MMO's while using a 360 controller, Wii remote or PS3 controller or any number of different bluetooth controllers. You can use your phone as a controller for your tablet. There are cheap periphs that attach to your tablet and phones. Now exluding whats available now... numerous companies are pushing cloud gaming pretty hard and many of those are going to be announced this year with a few seeing launch late this year early next. The Streaming side of the shield unit has a massive uphill battle. It's got to compete with 150-200 tablets and other devices. Kainy actually works very well and it's a $2 dollar app. It's not just the companies and systems that will stream to TV's, it's also the hundreds of handheld systems out now and coming out that will stream as well. If you are on a budget these streaming devices will appeal far more than the shield unit because they simply offer more for less. If the performance is what interests you then again... shield isn't the choice.  Where does the shield unit fit in? Those on a budget have cheaper optionsThose not on a budget and interested in performance have better options 

    The Shield is a mobile gaming rig, like the Nintendo 3DS or the Sony PSP or Vita. It will have a market, provided by Nvidia for Shield specific games. It will also be able to run pretty much any game off of the Google market. It will have the fastest mobile processor available in any Android device. In that market, portable gaming rig and Android gaming device, $200 to $300 is a reasonable price tag.

    To answer the question of how it would compete with the Fiona, it will hopefully cost $700 to $1000 less than the Fiona. Unless Nvidia goes insane with pricing and they try to sell their device for more than $300. In which case, I don't think they'll sell many of them at all and they will have wasted a lot of time.

    As to how it would compete with other Android devices, it has what is currently the fastest Android processor available with the most advanced graphics, and it has everything you need built into the device. Cheaper devices will be slower, or they'll be Android PCs that do not include a screen or any sort of input device, much less a game controller. Again, if they are selling for $300 or less. If they go higher than $300, I don't think the Shield has any real advantage.

    Many of the questions you're asking could be asked about the Nintendo handhelds that have sold so well over the years. Why would anyone buy them? Because there are people who want handheld gaming devices. They don't want tablets, they don't want phones, they want something to play games on. That's what the Shield is. If it's priced in the right range, it'll sell well. If not, it won't.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.


    They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon
    Mobile gaming is vastly overrated....
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I've been a hard/mid-core gamer for 20+ years - and this?

    What a waste of time and money.

    Gaming is for the home - not mobile.

    Put the phone / tablet /portable down, look people in the eye and connect with them.

    Look out the window.

    Christ... it's like people WANT to be plugged in 24/7.

     

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.

    They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.

     

    Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

    I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
    They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
    Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

    I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.




    Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
    They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
    Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

     

    I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.



    Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.

     

    Honestly this could be a middle of the road situation -- as we saw with older android devices regarding hardware performance.  For example, even to this day, most unoptimized visually intensive programs run poorly on older and cheaper/less capable android devices.

    Android devices aren't like the new Windows Phones,  where Microsoft requires certain hardware specifications.  Originally Android handsets were built around an entirely different button scheme altogether, which has been removed and simplified on many of the newer devices.

     

    Point being, theres a big different here between hardware - and in the event this "console" or - moreover, the hardware stays shield exclusive, and other developers don't take into account optimization for older devices, you'll have situations where there may be games that ONLY run on Nvidia Shield.   You already see games like that on the market today.

    Personally I feel like that is the opposite intention for the mobile gaming movement... its always been about accessibility..   which is what the App markets are about.   I seriously doubt anyone would cater to a single device and fragment development, cutting themselves off from the majority of the base.

     

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
    They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
    Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.

     

    I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.



    Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.

     

    If you make your own console, it's obvious why you'd make console-exclusive games for your own console.  But you know that, and the real question is why anyone else would make games exclusive to one particular console.

    If you're worried about piracy, you don't port the game from console to PC.  If you make extensive use of capabilities that one console has and another does not, then you can't really port it to the console that doesn't have those capabilities.  That means a lot of games basically couldn't be ported to Wii.

    As for Xbox 360 versus PS3, they're roughly comparable at a macro level, but the internal architectures are very different, and if you have a complete game ready to go for one of the consoles, it's actually a lot of work to port it to the other.  They use very different CPU architectures that require very different CPU threading models.  They use very different GPUs.  They use different graphics APIs, though if you're trying to get lower level access to the GPU hardware than an API would give you, just using very different GPUs a huge problem even ignoring the APIs.

    Nvidia Shield doesn't have that kind of radical dfiferences from everything else on the market.  OpenGL is an industry standard, already supported by both AMD and Nvidia in their Radeon, GeForce, FirePro, and Tesla cards.  Older versions of it are also supported by Intel.  ARM cores are ubiquitous in the mobile space, and everyone and his neighbor's dog will soon be using exactly the same ARM Cortex A15 cores that the Tegra 4 is.

    Unless you're coding your game with the close to metal access to the Tegra 4 GPU and ignoring APIs, porting it to other devices will probably be pretty easy to do.  And even if you are doing that, there will probably soon be a bunch of other devices that use exactly the same Tegra 4 chip, so if your game runs on Nvidia Shield, then it will run just as well on a next generation Asus Transformer tablet or whatever.  Shield runs Android, an open platform, so it doesn't have strong anti-piracy controls that you'd lose by porting it elsewhere.

    You might well see games that can run on Nvidia Shield but not most other Android devices, for lack of API compliance or hardware performance.  But it won't be Nvidia Shield-exclusive forever, as there will soon be plenty of other chips that have the performance to run it.  Remember that Nvidia is primarily in the business of designing and selling chips, so their real goal is to get a bunch of other companies to buy Tegra 4 chips and integrate them into everything.  In order to do that, they're going to go out of their way to make sure that anything that runs on Nvidia Shield also runs on any other device using a Tegra 4 chip.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by GrayGhost79 The Shield unit will NOT play PC games. It will only stream PC games and steam games from your PC and ONLY if you have an i5 or higher with an appropriate Nvidia GPU.  So again, it will NOT play PC games lol, only stream them. 
    If the game is made using DirectX, then that's correct.  If it's made using OpenGL and a language that can run on Android, then porting it to Android might well be easy or even trivial.  If it gets ported to Android, then it's an Android game, and whether it will run locally on the Shield is just a question of whether Tegra 4 has enough performance for it.
    They are going to have an Nvidia Market, for (I assume) Shield exclusive games. This may be a big part of their strategy, the same way there are Xbox and PS3 exclusive games. It seems that they are doing something with Steam, so it seems at least possible that Valve might provide some Nvidia exclusive games.  
    Why would any sane developer make a game Nvidia Shield-exclusive, unless Nvidia pays them a bunch of money to do so?  If you can make a game run on Nvidia Shield, then making it run on Windows and Linux desktops and laptops is likely to be nearly trivial, and Mac likely won't be too hard, either.   I think that the Nvidia store is going to be a place to gather games that will run well on the Nvidia Shield, to make it easy for people who buy it to find such games.  It's not going to be a closed platform, so it won't offer the anti-piracy protections of consoles.  Nvidia doesn't develop their own games like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo do, so there aren't any obvious candidates for a Shield-exclusive game.
    Why do developers agree to make exclusive games for any particular console? I have no idea, I just know that they do it. It doesn't seem like it would be worth the effort to build and maintain a store for your device if you didn't have some exclusive content to draw people in. In addition to content that would be available on the Google store of course.  
    If you make your own console, it's obvious why you'd make console-exclusive games for your own console.  But you know that, and the real question is why anyone else would make games exclusive to one particular console.

    If you're worried about piracy, you don't port the game from console to PC.  If you make extensive use of capabilities that one console has and another does not, then you can't really port it to the console that doesn't have those capabilities.  That means a lot of games basically couldn't be ported to Wii.

    As for Xbox 360 versus PS3, they're roughly comparable at a macro level, but the internal architectures are very different, and if you have a complete game ready to go for one of the consoles, it's actually a lot of work to port it to the other.  They use very different CPU architectures that require very different CPU threading models.  They use very different GPUs.  They use different graphics APIs, though if you're trying to get lower level access to the GPU hardware than an API would give you, just using very different GPUs a huge problem even ignoring the APIs.

    Nvidia Shield doesn't have that kind of radical dfiferences from everything else on the market.  OpenGL is an industry standard, already supported by both AMD and Nvidia in their Radeon, GeForce, FirePro, and Tesla cards.  Older versions of it are also supported by Intel.  ARM cores are ubiquitous in the mobile space, and everyone and his neighbor's dog will soon be using exactly the same ARM Cortex A15 cores that the Tegra 4 is.

    Unless you're coding your game with the close to metal access to the Tegra 4 GPU and ignoring APIs, porting it to other devices will probably be pretty easy to do.  And even if you are doing that, there will probably soon be a bunch of other devices that use exactly the same Tegra 4 chip, so if your game runs on Nvidia Shield, then it will run just as well on a next generation Asus Transformer tablet or whatever.  Shield runs Android, an open platform, so it doesn't have strong anti-piracy controls that you'd lose by porting it elsewhere.

    You might well see games that can run on Nvidia Shield but not most other Android devices, for lack of API compliance or hardware performance.  But it won't be Nvidia Shield-exclusive forever, as there will soon be plenty of other chips that have the performance to run it.  Remember that Nvidia is primarily in the business of designing and selling chips, so their real goal is to get a bunch of other companies to buy Tegra 4 chips and integrate them into everything.  In order to do that, they're going to go out of their way to make sure that anything that runs on Nvidia Shield also runs on any other device using a Tegra 4 chip.




    I'm honestly not sure, but I don't see them going through the effort of developing a store, separate from the Google store without doing something with it. Maybe games that require the Tegra 4's horsepower show up there first, or maybe they run specials on games the way Amazon does.

    Just running a limited selection of games that are available on the Google store doesn't make sense because people would just use the Google store anyway. Especially if they can get Angry Birds in Google's store and not the Nvidia one.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I'm honestly not sure, but I don't see them going through the effort of developing a store, separate from the Google store without doing something with it. Maybe games that require the Tegra 4's horsepower show up there first, or maybe they run specials on games the way Amazon does.

    Just running a limited selection of games that are available on the Google store doesn't make sense because people would just use the Google store anyway. Especially if they can get Angry Birds in Google's store and not the Nvidia one.

    It's an issue of signal-to-noise ratio.  If the Google store has twice as many of the things you want and 50 times as many of the things you don't want, then it's easier to find some things you want in the Nvidia store.

  • AticusWellesAticusWelles Beverly hills, CAPosts: 152Member
    It appears Valve wants to get into the streaming biz with steam box as well.

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/8/3852144/gabe-newell-interview-steam-box-future-of-gaming
    "Do you envision a Steam Box connecting to other screens outside the living room?

    The Steam Box will also be a server. Any PC can serve multiple monitors, so over time, the next-generation (post-Kepler) you can have one GPU that’s serving up eight simulateneous game calls. So you could have one PC and eight televisions and eight controllers and everybody getting great performance out of it. We’re used to having one monitor, or two monitors -- now we’re saying lets expand that a little bit."
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by lizardbones I'm honestly not sure, but I don't see them going through the effort of developing a store, separate from the Google store without doing something with it. Maybe games that require the Tegra 4's horsepower show up there first, or maybe they run specials on games the way Amazon does. Just running a limited selection of games that are available on the Google store doesn't make sense because people would just use the Google store anyway. Especially if they can get Angry Birds in Google's store and not the Nvidia one.
    It's an issue of signal-to-noise ratio.  If the Google store has twice as many of the things you want and 50 times as many of the things you don't want, then it's easier to find some things you want in the Nvidia store.


    I just don't see them doing only that. I could be totally wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. I guess if this thing turns out to actually sell, then everyone one will find out. :-)

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I've been a hard/mid-core gamer for 20+ years - and this?

    What a waste of time and money.

    Gaming is for the home - not mobile.

    Put the phone / tablet /portable down, look people in the eye and connect with them.

    Look out the window.

    Christ... it's like people WANT to be plugged in 24/7.

     

    Mobile gaming really helps when I'm waiting in line, or commuting.

    Meanwhile, other people view videogaming a waste of time and money.

     

    EDIT: Not sure if this has been posted here:

    http://gizmodo.com/5974239/nvidia-project-shield-hands-on-a-little-less-weird-than-it-looks

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by KhinRunite
    Originally posted by BadSpock I've been a hard/mid-core gamer for 20+ years - and this? What a waste of time and money. Gaming is for the home - not mobile. Put the phone / tablet /portable down, look people in the eye and connect with them. Look out the window. Christ... it's like people WANT to be plugged in 24/7.  
    Mobile gaming really helps when I'm waiting in line, or commuting.

    Meanwhile, other people view videogaming a waste of time and money.

     

    EDIT: Not sure if this has been posted here:

    http://gizmodo.com/5974239/nvidia-project-shield-hands-on-a-little-less-weird-than-it-looks




    There really are a lot of people who like the handheld gaming platforms. According to VGChartz, they sold over half a million 3DSs last week.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Ubitus teaming up with google is far from the only streaming service being worked on. I mean right now, right this very moment you can stream to a tablet and play PC games and MMO's while using a 360 controller, Wii remote or PS3 controller or any number of different bluetooth controllers. You can use your phone as a controller for your tablet. There are cheap periphs that attach to your tablet and phones. Now exluding whats available now... numerous companies are pushing cloud gaming pretty hard and many of those are going to be announced this year with a few seeing launch late this year early next. 

     

    The Streaming side of the shield unit has a massive uphill battle. It's got to compete with 150-200 tablets and other devices. Kainy actually works very well and it's a $2 dollar app. 

    It's not just the companies and systems that will stream to TV's, it's also the hundreds of handheld systems out now and coming out that will stream as well. If you are on a budget these streaming devices will appeal far more than the shield unit because they simply offer more for less. 

    If the performance is what interests you then again... shield isn't the choice. 

     

    Where does the shield unit fit in?

     

    Those on a budget have cheaper options

    Those not on a budget and interested in performance have better options

     



    The Shield is a mobile gaming rig, like the Nintendo 3DS or the Sony PSP or Vita. It will have a market, provided by Nvidia for Shield specific games. It will also be able to run pretty much any game off of the Google market. It will have the fastest mobile processor available in any Android device. In that market, portable gaming rig and Android gaming device, $200 to $300 is a reasonable price tag.

    To answer the question of how it would compete with the Fiona, it will hopefully cost $700 to $1000 less than the Fiona. Unless Nvidia goes insane with pricing and they try to sell their device for more than $300. In which case, I don't think they'll sell many of them at all and they will have wasted a lot of time.

    As to how it would compete with other Android devices, it has what is currently the fastest Android processor available with the most advanced graphics, and it has everything you need built into the device. Cheaper devices will be slower, or they'll be Android PCs that do not include a screen or any sort of input device, much less a game controller. Again, if they are selling for $300 or less. If they go higher than $300, I don't think the Shield has any real advantage.

    Many of the questions you're asking could be asked about the Nintendo handhelds that have sold so well over the years. Why would anyone buy them? Because there are people who want handheld gaming devices. They don't want tablets, they don't want phones, they want something to play games on. That's what the Shield is. If it's priced in the right range, it'll sell well. If not, it won't.

     

    The shield is a run of the mill tablet with a funky controller built into it with a tiny screen. It will get out performed by cheaper tablets that do the exact same thing. Vizio already has a Tegra 4 tablet out and many more are on the way. 

    The Shield unit does squat different except overcharge for a crappy screen and a crappy attached controller. You can save yourself the cash and buy any other tegra 4 tablet and a clip on remote or a wireless remote. 

    Theres no market for this thing lol. It's going to be competing with cell phones and tablets that will do the job better and cheaper lol. 

     

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    The Shield is a mobile gaming rig, like the Nintendo 3DS or the Sony PSP or Vita. It will have a market, provided by Nvidia for Shield specific games. It will also be able to run pretty much any game off of the Google market. It will have the fastest mobile processor available in any Android device. In that market, portable gaming rig and Android gaming device, $200 to $300 is a reasonable price tag.

    To answer the question of how it would compete with the Fiona, it will hopefully cost $700 to $1000 less than the Fiona. Unless Nvidia goes insane with pricing and they try to sell their device for more than $300. In which case, I don't think they'll sell many of them at all and they will have wasted a lot of time.

    As to how it would compete with other Android devices, it has what is currently the fastest Android processor available with the most advanced graphics, and it has everything you need built into the device. Cheaper devices will be slower, or they'll be Android PCs that do not include a screen or any sort of input device, much less a game controller. Again, if they are selling for $300 or less. If they go higher than $300, I don't think the Shield has any real advantage.

    Many of the questions you're asking could be asked about the Nintendo handhelds that have sold so well over the years. Why would anyone buy them? Because there are people who want handheld gaming devices. They don't want tablets, they don't want phones, they want something to play games on. That's what the Shield is. If it's priced in the right range, it'll sell well. If not, it won't.

     

    The shield is a run of the mill tablet with a funky controller built into it with a tiny screen. It will get out performed by cheaper tablets that do the exact same thing. Vizio already has a Tegra 4 tablet out and many more are on the way. 

    The Shield unit does squat different except overcharge for a crappy screen and a crappy attached controller. You can save yourself the cash and buy any other tegra 4 tablet and a clip on remote or a wireless remote. 

    Theres no market for this thing lol. It's going to be competing with cell phones and tablets that will do the job better and cheaper lol. 

    And what tablets are going to outperform it while being cheaper?  Higher performance likely relegates you to chips that really shouldn't be used in a tablet--even once the tablet chips that will launch in the next several months are out.  From the specs, I'm guessing that AMD Temash will be slower on the CPU side.  I'm somewhat skeptical that Imagination will put out a higher-performance GPU in their new generation, though that remains to be seen.  If you're paying $300 for a ULV Haswell chip alone, that's not going to be cheap.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    The Shield is a mobile gaming rig, like the Nintendo 3DS or the Sony PSP or Vita. It will have a market, provided by Nvidia for Shield specific games. It will also be able to run pretty much any game off of the Google market. It will have the fastest mobile processor available in any Android device. In that market, portable gaming rig and Android gaming device, $200 to $300 is a reasonable price tag.

    To answer the question of how it would compete with the Fiona, it will hopefully cost $700 to $1000 less than the Fiona. Unless Nvidia goes insane with pricing and they try to sell their device for more than $300. In which case, I don't think they'll sell many of them at all and they will have wasted a lot of time.

    As to how it would compete with other Android devices, it has what is currently the fastest Android processor available with the most advanced graphics, and it has everything you need built into the device. Cheaper devices will be slower, or they'll be Android PCs that do not include a screen or any sort of input device, much less a game controller. Again, if they are selling for $300 or less. If they go higher than $300, I don't think the Shield has any real advantage.

    Many of the questions you're asking could be asked about the Nintendo handhelds that have sold so well over the years. Why would anyone buy them? Because there are people who want handheld gaming devices. They don't want tablets, they don't want phones, they want something to play games on. That's what the Shield is. If it's priced in the right range, it'll sell well. If not, it won't.

     

    The shield is a run of the mill tablet with a funky controller built into it with a tiny screen. It will get out performed by cheaper tablets that do the exact same thing. Vizio already has a Tegra 4 tablet out and many more are on the way. 

    The Shield unit does squat different except overcharge for a crappy screen and a crappy attached controller. You can save yourself the cash and buy any other tegra 4 tablet and a clip on remote or a wireless remote. 

    Theres no market for this thing lol. It's going to be competing with cell phones and tablets that will do the job better and cheaper lol. 

    And what tablets are going to outperform it while being cheaper?  Higher performance likely relegates you to chips that really shouldn't be used in a tablet--even once the tablet chips that will launch in the next several months are out.  From the specs, I'm guessing that AMD Temash will be slower on the CPU side.  I'm somewhat skeptical that Imagination will put out a higher-performance GPU in their new generation, though that remains to be seen.  If you're paying $300 for a ULV Haswell chip alone, that's not going to be cheap.

    Its simple... Its going to be an over priced Tegra 4 tablet because of the funky controller and novelty. 7inch and 10inch tablets are going to perform the same and be equal or lower in price. Not all of course, but most. 

    We don't even have to focus on other tablets besides the Tegra 4 tablets to see why the shield unit is such a bad idea lol. 

    Do I spend 150-250 on this little 5 inch screen and funky controller or do I spend this 150-250 on a 7inch to 10inch Tegra 4 full tablet that does the same thing. 

     

    I have no idea why you insist on the defending this rinky dinky novelty item, but simply compairing it to it's siblings is enough to put the little thing to shame lol. 

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Do I spend 150-250 on this little 5 inch screen and funky controller or do I spend this 150-250 on a 7inch to 10inch Tegra 4 full tablet that does the same thing. 

    Depends on whether you want the built-in controller.  And on the price tag.

    Maybe it will end up being stupidly overpriced.  But we don't know that yet.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Do I spend 150-250 on this little 5 inch screen and funky controller or do I spend this 150-250 on a 7inch to 10inch Tegra 4 full tablet that does the same thing. 

    Depends on whether you want the built-in controller.  And on the price tag.

    Maybe it will end up being stupidly overpriced.  But we don't know that yet.

     "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

     

    We all know it's going to be stupidly over priced, the reason being things like this are always stupidly over priced lol. As far as the controller goes, it's in the most awkward position imaginable so no, even that isn't likely to be appealing. Look at the screen placement on that thing and think about how you are going to have to position that to play and see that tiny screen. 

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Do I spend 150-250 on this little 5 inch screen and funky controller or do I spend this 150-250 on a 7inch to 10inch Tegra 4 full tablet that does the same thing. 
    Depends on whether you want the built-in controller.  And on the price tag. Maybe it will end up being stupidly overpriced.  But we don't know that yet.
     "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

     

    We all know it's going to be stupidly over priced, the reason being things like this are always stupidly over priced lol. As far as the controller goes, it's in the most awkward position imaginable so no, even that isn't likely to be appealing. Look at the screen placement on that thing and think about how you are going to have to position that to play and see that tiny screen. 



    I'm afraid it is going to be over priced. They are talking about it as a "premium" device. The reviews are very favorable towards the hardware...it is good stuff. $150 to $250 is the right price range for a handheld gaming unit, but it sounds like they might shoot for a higher price bracket which probably isn't a good idea (imo).

    They don't have to compete with tablets. Tablets, regardless of the processor used have a cr@p interface for gaming. You can do it, but the games people play on tablets are not the games people play on handhelds or on the PC. People who are going to buy a gaming rig or a gaming handheld aren't going to look at a tablet*.

    The only real problem the Shield has is exclusive content. They do have a TegraZone, for games that are optimized for the Tegra processor, but most games will run on any Android device. Not only that, the Shield will have the Google store right there. They need a compelling reason for people to buy their gaming console, and that compelling reason in the past has always been content. They need games that need something as powerful as a Tegra 4 processor and which requires or works best using a gaming controller. I don't think such a thing exists.

    ** edit **
    * There are always exceptions. If they want PC gaming, in a tablet, then they're going to look at tablets. They will also have a lot of money or they will be disappointed.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Do I spend 150-250 on this little 5 inch screen and funky controller or do I spend this 150-250 on a 7inch to 10inch Tegra 4 full tablet that does the same thing. 
    Depends on whether you want the built-in controller.  And on the price tag. Maybe it will end up being stupidly overpriced.  But we don't know that yet.
     "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

     

     

    We all know it's going to be stupidly over priced, the reason being things like this are always stupidly over priced lol. As far as the controller goes, it's in the most awkward position imaginable so no, even that isn't likely to be appealing. Look at the screen placement on that thing and think about how you are going to have to position that to play and see that tiny screen. 



    I'm afraid it is going to be over priced. They are talking about it as a "premium" device. The reviews are very favorable towards the hardware...it is good stuff. $150 to $250 is the right price range for a handheld gaming unit, but it sounds like they might shoot for a higher price bracket which probably isn't a good idea (imo).

    They don't have to compete with tablets. Tablets, regardless of the processor used have a cr@p interface for gaming. You can do it, but the games people play on tablets are not the games people play on handhelds or on the PC. People who are going to buy a gaming rig or a gaming handheld aren't going to look at a tablet*.

    The only real problem the Shield has is exclusive content. They do have a TegraZone, for games that are optimized for the Tegra processor, but most games will run on any Android device. Not only that, the Shield will have the Google store right there. They need a compelling reason for people to buy their gaming console, and that compelling reason in the past has always been content. They need games that need something as powerful as a Tegra 4 processor and which requires or works best using a gaming controller. I don't think such a thing exists.

    ** edit **
    * There are always exceptions. If they want PC gaming, in a tablet, then they're going to look at tablets. They will also have a lot of money or they will be disappointed.

     

    $150 seems awfully low.  Look around and see what you can buy for $150.  It's pretty slim pickings if you want to play games.  If it's $100 plus a contract for two years of cell phone service, that's not at all similar to $100 period, as they hike the rates on the contract to pay for the initial purchase price of the phone.

    Even $250 seems low.  That's what a PlayStation Vita goes for, and this is much higher end hardware than that.  Not to mention that this is an open platform so you can run whatever you want without it being mandatory that Nvidia gets a cut of everything or else they'll block it.  What tablets can you get for $250 without some contract?  Low end junk, and then perhaps an Amazon Kindle Fire and a Google Nexus 7.  Again, this is a lot higher end internal hardware than that.

    At the other end, $500 definitely seems too high, as you can get a decent enough laptop at that price, not to mention a coming flood of tablets with comparable internal hardware and a nicer screen.

    So I'm going to say that about $300-$350 seems like the right price to sell it.  Which probably means that Nvidia will charge $400.  No, I'm not insisting that they're going to offer a great bargain price, but after seeing that the Razer Edge Pro is going to be $1850 with the accessories, overpriced is a relative thing.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Do I spend 150-250 on this little 5 inch screen and funky controller or do I spend this 150-250 on a 7inch to 10inch Tegra 4 full tablet that does the same thing. 
    Depends on whether you want the built-in controller.  And on the price tag. Maybe it will end up being stupidly overpriced.  But we don't know that yet.
     "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana     We all know it's going to be stupidly over priced, the reason being things like this are always stupidly over priced lol. As far as the controller goes, it's in the most awkward position imaginable so no, even that isn't likely to be appealing. Look at the screen placement on that thing and think about how you are going to have to position that to play and see that tiny screen. 
    I'm afraid it is going to be over priced. They are talking about it as a "premium" device. The reviews are very favorable towards the hardware...it is good stuff. $150 to $250 is the right price range for a handheld gaming unit, but it sounds like they might shoot for a higher price bracket which probably isn't a good idea (imo). They don't have to compete with tablets. Tablets, regardless of the processor used have a cr@p interface for gaming. You can do it, but the games people play on tablets are not the games people play on handhelds or on the PC. People who are going to buy a gaming rig or a gaming handheld aren't going to look at a tablet*. The only real problem the Shield has is exclusive content. They do have a TegraZone, for games that are optimized for the Tegra processor, but most games will run on any Android device. Not only that, the Shield will have the Google store right there. They need a compelling reason for people to buy their gaming console, and that compelling reason in the past has always been content. They need games that need something as powerful as a Tegra 4 processor and which requires or works best using a gaming controller. I don't think such a thing exists. ** edit ** * There are always exceptions. If they want PC gaming, in a tablet, then they're going to look at tablets. They will also have a lot of money or they will be disappointed.  
    $150 seems awfully low.  Look around and see what you can buy for $150.  It's pretty slim pickings if you want to play games.  If it's $100 plus a contract for two years of cell phone service, that's not at all similar to $100 period, as they hike the rates on the contract to pay for the initial purchase price of the phone.

    Even $250 seems low.  That's what a PlayStation Vita goes for, and this is much higher end hardware than that.  Not to mention that this is an open platform so you can run whatever you want without it being mandatory that Nvidia gets a cut of everything or else they'll block it.  What tablets can you get for $250 without some contract?  Low end junk, and then perhaps an Amazon Kindle Fire and a Google Nexus 7.  Again, this is a lot higher end internal hardware than that.

    At the other end, $500 definitely seems too high, as you can get a decent enough laptop at that price, not to mention a coming flood of tablets with comparable internal hardware and a nicer screen.

    So I'm going to say that about $300-$350 seems like the right price to sell it.  Which probably means that Nvidia will charge $400.  No, I'm not insisting that they're going to offer a great bargain price, but after seeing that the Razer Edge Pro is going to be $1850 with the accessories, overpriced is a relative thing.




    I was thinking $250 because that's what other handhelds go for. $150 was just kind of wishful thinking. It doesn't have anything to do with the hardware or what it's capable of doing.

    I think it depends on how people see the device. Is is a gaming handheld? Then $250 is the price. Will they see it as a Mini Android PC, aimed at Gaming? If so, then the $350 is the price. It looks like a gaming handheld device to me. I know what else it has, and what else it can do, but looking at it, I think, "Handheld gaming device for Pokemon".

    Nvidia is probably thinking it's a "thing that will do what the Segway was supposed to do to the world" and they'll price it accordingly.

    It will be very interesting to see though. I think it's great when devices devoted to gaming make a big splash, so it would be really cool if this made a big splash.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I was thinking $250 because that's what other handhelds go for. $150 was just kind of wishful thinking. It doesn't have anything to do with the hardware or what it's capable of doing.

    I think it depends on how people see the device. Is is a gaming handheld? Then $250 is the price. Will they see it as a Mini Android PC, aimed at Gaming? If so, then the $350 is the price. It looks like a gaming handheld device to me. I know what else it has, and what else it can do, but looking at it, I think, "Handheld gaming device for Pokemon".

    Nvidia is probably thinking it's a "thing that will do what the Segway was supposed to do to the world" and they'll price it accordingly.

    It will be very interesting to see though. I think it's great when devices devoted to gaming make a big splash, so it would be really cool if this made a big splash.

     

    The hardware and what it is capable of doing does matter, though.  On the day that the PlayStation 3 launched, it cost a lot more than a PlayStation 2 did that day.  When the PlayStation 4 launches, it will cost a lot more than the PlayStation 3 does that day.

    -----

    I wonder somewhat if there would be a market for an AMD Temash-based device comparable to Nvidia Shield.  If Shield takes off, then someone will probably make it.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by lizardbones I was thinking $250 because that's what other handhelds go for. $150 was just kind of wishful thinking. It doesn't have anything to do with the hardware or what it's capable of doing. I think it depends on how people see the device. Is is a gaming handheld? Then $250 is the price. Will they see it as a Mini Android PC, aimed at Gaming? If so, then the $350 is the price. It looks like a gaming handheld device to me. I know what else it has, and what else it can do, but looking at it, I think, "Handheld gaming device for Pokemon". Nvidia is probably thinking it's a "thing that will do what the Segway was supposed to do to the world" and they'll price it accordingly. It will be very interesting to see though. I think it's great when devices devoted to gaming make a big splash, so it would be really cool if this made a big splash.  
    The hardware and what it is capable of doing does matter, though.  On the day that the PlayStation 3 launched, it cost a lot more than a PlayStation 2 did that day.  When the PlayStation 4 launches, it will cost a lot more than the PlayStation 3 does that day.

    -----

    I wonder somewhat if there would be a market for an AMD Temash-based device comparable to Nvidia Shield.  If Shield takes off, then someone will probably make it.




    That is true. Newer generations of things tend to get more expensive. This is the latest generation of handheld gaming devices, so it would be inline with expectations that it will be the most expensive.

    Gaming's central philosophy seems to be, "Bigger, Better, Faster, More". If the AMD Temash APU fits that philosophy, then I think it's inevitable that something comes out for it. I think a handheld in the form factor of the Shield that runs Windows 8 and that will run Windows games would sell very well. Not if it was priced at $1,300...but at some reasonable price, yeah, it would rock.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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