The monthly sub model may not be dead yet but it's on its way out. There are probably millions of video games players who regard the concept of paying a monthly sub as a ridiculous idea. However, those same players are used to the idea of DLC's to get added content to their games and once most mmo's come in B2P, F2P and freemium flavours and they will, I can see a big increase in new people coming to the mmo market.
Personally, I have three of my favourite mmo's available to me now without a sub. LotRO for which I have a lifetime sub, TSW, which has just gone B2P and GW2, which is not only B2P but which I'm enjoying more than any sub based game since pre cu SWG. The only other game on my radar atm is The Repopulation. That's not due out until the end of the year at the earliest but will also be F2P. I really think it's unlikely I'll ever bother with a sub based game again, whatever the actual sub level. It would have to be something really exceptional to tempt me.
I think they should offer a $15 monthly fee and the option to buy game hours, like APB did briefly at its initial launch. Buying game hours is more expensive than a $15 fee if you play the MMO a lot, but saves money if you play casually.
Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
$15 a month is intimidating ? It's kind of frightning to actually sit back and think about the type of people who actually complain about the cost of playing an mmo.
I can see not wanting to pay for a game you only play once or twice a month but if it's THE game you're playing $15 is cheaper than anything else you can do for fun....for a whole month.
Its the only thing in real life that hasnt gone up 100-300% in the past decade lol. If the price to play a mmo actualy went up to account for inflation of other things you would be paying 90$ per month
15$/month in todays economy isnt anything lol. For 24/7 entertainment and equal ground in game as everyone else, not having to pay for content, inventory, character slots, etc........ is it realy even an issue?
The only issue is the fact crap games are infesting the market and no one wants to pay a monthly fee for a game barely good enough to be a single player game.
You do realize Onomas that 15 dollars a month adds up to $180 don't you? And what if you have to pay for the box as well, say $60? That comes to $240 a year. Now if you were going to make a purchase that cost that much, would you not at least think carefully before making that decision?
....
Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?
So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.
but 5$ a month sub model is the thing of the future.
Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
And with growing number of MMORPG game list, consumers would be better off being able to sub to multiple MMOs rather than commit to a single 15$ a month AAA MMO.
By lowering it down to 5$ a month, consumers can squeeze 3 AAA MMOs out of a single month with that same traditional 15$ a month.
With more MMORPG on the game list, more will be played at a time for the avg MMO consumer in theory. (and even more for those that already comfortable with coughing over 60+$ a month to play multiple MMOs)
keep in mind this is about sub model alternative then doing the risky F2P and B2P models.
We dont need more mmorpgs we need good mmorpgs again.
Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
$15 a month is intimidating ? It's kind of frightning to actually sit back and think about the type of people who actually complain about the cost of playing an mmo.
I can see not wanting to pay for a game you only play once or twice a month but if it's THE game you're playing $15 is cheaper than anything else you can do for fun....for a whole month.
Its the only thing in real life that hasnt gone up 100-300% in the past decade lol. If the price to play a mmo actualy went up to account for inflation of other things you would be paying 90$ per month
15$/month in todays economy isnt anything lol. For 24/7 entertainment and equal ground in game as everyone else, not having to pay for content, inventory, character slots, etc........ is it realy even an issue?
The only issue is the fact crap games are infesting the market and no one wants to pay a monthly fee for a game barely good enough to be a single player game.
You do realize Onomas that 15 dollars a month adds up to $180 don't you? And what if you have to pay for the box as well, say $60? That comes to $240 a year. Now if you were going to make a purchase that cost that much, would you not at least think carefully before making that decision?
....
Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?
So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.
exactly, you cant even go to the movies for less than 20$ now and thats only 2 hrs worth. Cant go to the park with out gas, entrance fee, food, and cost me 100 last time i went. Took my wife out to eat this past weekend and cost me 45$. I spend 40-45 a week in gas, so just going joy ridding would cost much more. A trip, cruise, flight, anything else cost a ton. Going ot the amusement park just for a day will cost you 100 easy, or buying the season pass is like 100$. Going to a concert will cost you. damn i spend more than that on trivial things daily lol.
15$/month for unlimited entertainment is not intimidating, its a relief! Because 1 sub keeps me, my wife, and child content. And saves me hundreds more in the long run. Not saying we dont go out, but with the economy being tight we limit ourselves to once every two week outtings now.
And yes bones i do blame that on poor mmorpg's that are released this day in age. Who wants to pay a monthly fee for a clone, poor quality game that lacks features/content, or for a game released too early and riddled with bugs?
My response would be for you to get a job and stop depending on your parents for an allowance. I'm ready for a really good AAA to come out with a subscription model that is around 19.99 a month, just so it would help discourage all of the freeloaders and dead weight that seems to have taken over the MMO space.
These are the credits for the games he has been involved in listed on Wikipedia. I see few F2P listed there. What makes him an authority on the subject? His experience is mostly with just one company too. Just because someone publishes a book it never meant they knew best, remember that phrase, those who can't - teach.
He devloped and ran Metaplace.com. He also doesn't exist in a vacuum and spends a lot of time consulting. Is it your contention that since you've played a lot of video games your personal view of game design and how the industry works is more valid than the experience of those who have been successfully working in the industry for 30 or so years? If so, don't worry, there's a lot of people here like that, so you're in good company.
You don't need an expert to coin a term. Everyone knows a very small number of players pay through the roof. It is not uncommon to name a customer segment. So he borrows the term from the gambling industry and it sticks.
Why is his expertise relevant?
Funny you are the only one that uses it here, and call people that dont even buy from a cash shop a WHALE. Its kind of derogatory and yoiu should not use it. Since you dont know who spends money over the rest, calling someone who pays for a sub a whale is not only ignorant but childish all together.
And for the record that term is stupid beyond belief being used in the gaming industry. Just saying.
you are just wrong.
First, i never call people a whale for paying a sub. That is NOT the defintiion. I have also never called a particular person a whale, since i do not know who is one.
Secondly, i will use the term when it fits the meaning .. i.e. ... the few players who pays a lot more than the norm in a F2P game. Do you have another term for it?
If you are so easier offended on the internet, it is your problem, not mine.
Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
Why should someone play so many games ? The only reason could be that the games suck and therfore people are always after the next one to find their kick, but they never will find something which satisfy them. A really good game sucks you in for a long time, not just for 3 months, and you dont need 20 others just because the cost for it are low. These arguements that a game is "free to play" or have low costs are irrelevant, people are looking for a quality game and they would pay for it.
Are you sure you are not just a game hopper always to find the next kick which lasts only for a short time ?
Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
$15 a month is intimidating ? It's kind of frightning to actually sit back and think about the type of people who actually complain about the cost of playing an mmo.
I can see not wanting to pay for a game you only play once or twice a month but if it's THE game you're playing $15 is cheaper than anything else you can do for fun....for a whole month.
Its the only thing in real life that hasnt gone up 100-300% in the past decade lol. If the price to play a mmo actualy went up to account for inflation of other things you would be paying 90$ per month
15$/month in todays economy isnt anything lol. For 24/7 entertainment and equal ground in game as everyone else, not having to pay for content, inventory, character slots, etc........ is it realy even an issue?
The only issue is the fact crap games are infesting the market and no one wants to pay a monthly fee for a game barely good enough to be a single player game.
You do realize Onomas that 15 dollars a month adds up to $180 don't you? And what if you have to pay for the box as well, say $60? That comes to $240 a year. Now if you were going to make a purchase that cost that much, would you not at least think carefully before making that decision?
....
Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?
So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.
Thanks again for proving my point. Thats why I don't buy coffees, or smoke, or go to bars very often. Not only do they kill you faster, all these things can add up pretty quickly. I also don't have a data plan or smartphone because I think the prices for those are ridiculous also.
It seems people today are just so used to paying a little bit here and a little bit there that the art of frugality is lost to this generation. Cheap by your standards is not necessarily cheap by mine.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
Why should someone play so many games ? The only reason could be that the games suck and therfore people are always after the next one to find their kick, but they never will find something which satisfy them. A really good game sucks you in for a long time, not just for 3 months, and you dont need 20 others just because the cost for it are low. These arguements that a game is "free to play" or have low costs are irrelevant, people are looking for a quality game and they would pay for it.
Are you sure you are not just a game hopper always to find the next kick which lasts only for a short time ?
Of course. How many movies do you watch in a year? Does The Avengers suck when it only lasts less than 3 hours.
You are confused between quality and quantity.
I like high quality games, quantity in content (i.e. duration) .. not so much.
If I blew through the content of a MMO in 4 weeks, and have a great time, why not? Why do i have to consider only long games? I would much rather have a short and very fun game, then a long and mediocre one.
Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
Why should someone play so many games ? The only reason could be that the games suck and therfore people are always after the next one to find their kick, but they never will find something which satisfy them. A really good game sucks you in for a long time, not just for 3 months, and you dont need 20 others just because the cost for it are low. These arguements that a game is "free to play" or have low costs are irrelevant, people are looking for a quality game and they would pay for it.
Are you sure you are not just a game hopper always to find the next kick which lasts only for a short time ?
Of course. How many movies do you watch in a year? Does The Avengers suck when it only lasts less than 3 hours.
You are confused between quality and quantity.
I like high quality games, quantity in content (i.e. duration) .. not so much.
If I blew through the content of a MMO in 4 weeks, and have a great time, why not? Why do i have to consider only long games? I would much rather have a short and very fun game, then a long and mediocre one.
Most of these Pro Sub based games people are simply living in the past and think that every game like EQ and Ultima and AC1 smelled like roses when actually they are the same games they are playing today. The biggest difference? Better graphics. Sure UO was pretty sandboxy , but those games have proven to be barely niche worthy today.
The only difference then was fewer choices. So your buddies hung around the game longer than they do today. And playing with firends and community was what made it all so special back then. Same games now but the community has changed. And a game having a sub is not going to bring that back, boys and girls. It is just gone and you all need to accept that fact or move on to a new form of entertainment.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
Why should someone play so many games ? The only reason could be that the games suck and therfore people are always after the next one to find their kick, but they never will find something which satisfy them. A really good game sucks you in for a long time, not just for 3 months, and you dont need 20 others just because the cost for it are low. These arguements that a game is "free to play" or have low costs are irrelevant, people are looking for a quality game and they would pay for it.
Are you sure you are not just a game hopper always to find the next kick which lasts only for a short time ?
Of course. How many movies do you watch in a year? Does The Avengers suck when it only lasts less than 3 hours.
You are confused between quality and quantity.
I like high quality games, quantity in content (i.e. duration) .. not so much.
If I blew through the content of a MMO in 4 weeks, and have a great time, why not? Why do i have to consider only long games? I would much rather have a short and very fun game, then a long and mediocre one.
I dont think you can compare a movie with a good quality mmorpg with rich content. You invest time into the mmorpg to develop your character, to socialize with people, you join a guild and build friendship, you fight for your faction and so on....A movie is like a BigMac you just consume it and finish it in a short time.
If you are a game hopper and you invest loads of time into games but not into a single one and if you love switching games, go ahead there are thousands of mmorpgs out there but most of them are not high quality games. What was the longest time you stayed with a single mmo ? For me it was around 3 years.
I'm for any monetary system that can best secure the long-term health of the MMO. These things should only close down once in a generation, not in a couple years.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I'm legitimately worried about a lot of the F2P games over the next few years. There are new, quality titles coming out that will either free (EQN) or sub (AA possibly) and wild cards such as ESO or Wildstar (not sure on model announcement).
Each of these could chip away at the playerbases of every game but F2P titles are the most vulnerable due to a smaller percentage supporting the game. I wonder how many titles will be closed or unsupported by 2015.
Most of these Pro Sub based games people are simply living in the past and think that every game like EQ and Ultima and AC1 smelled like roses when actually they are the same games they are playing today. The biggest difference? Better graphics. Sure UO was pretty sandboxy , but those games have proven to be barely niche worthy today.
The only difference then was fewer choices. So your buddies hung around the game longer than they do today. And playing with firends and community was what made it all so special back then. Same games now but the community has changed. And a game having a sub is not going to bring that back, boys and girls. It is just gone and you all need to accept that fact or move on to a new form of entertainment.
You have no clue what you are talking with what made a game like EQ great. The only thing remotely correct in your post is community was a part of why those games were great and the communities today have changed. What we dont know for sure if it was the games that caused that or it just happened. Looking at the games such as EQ2 and LOTRO that have more in common with the old generation games than games like Rift and Tera, it seems like its both. LOTRO and EQ2 have much better communities than most games, but still not what games like EQ had.
As for the price thing, its economics. Unless a game gets WoW numbers, it needs that money somehow. if it reduces subs by 2/3rds, then it has to get more cash shop sales. And I have yet to see a game improve once a cash shop is implemented, they have all fallen. Game experiences are certainly better without them.
Originally posted by Aelious In legitimately worried about a lot of the F2P games over the next few years. There are new, quality titles coming out that will either free (EQN) or sub (AA possibly) and wild cards such as ESO or Wildstar (not sure on model announcement).
Each of these could chip away at the playerbases of every game but F2P titles are the most vulnerable due to a smaller percentage supporting the game. I wonder how many titles will be closed or unsupported by 2015.
Actually I would say that assumption is probably wrong. The majority of the player base is likely playing for free. Those that are paying are probably enjoying the game and are invested in playing it.
However in sub based games there are probably lots of people thinking I am paying 15 a month and not really enjoying this game. Maybe it is time to switch.
Each player lost in a sub based game is a paying one. So a bigger proportion of paying players will likely be leaving the sub based game.
All speculation of course, but I think my scenario makes as much sense as the other, without conclusive evidence.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by Aelious In legitimately worried about a lot of the F2P games over the next few years. There are new, quality titles coming out that will either free (EQN) or sub (AA possibly) and wild cards such as ESO or Wildstar (not sure on model announcement).
Each of these could chip away at the playerbases of every game but F2P titles are the most vulnerable due to a smaller percentage supporting the game. I wonder how many titles will be closed or unsupported by 2015.
Actually I would say that assumption is probably wrong. The majority of the player base is likely playing for free. Those that are paying are probably enjoying the game and are invested in playing it.
However in sub based games there are probably lots of people thinking I am paying 15 a month and not really enjoying this game. Maybe it is time to switch.
Each player lost in a sub based game is a paying one. So a bigger proportion of paying players will likely be leaving the sub based game.
All speculation of course, but I think my scenario makes as much sense as the other, without conclusive evidence.
I think the real problem isn't which model is more likely to be popular. It's which model is more likely to close down in the short term.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
These are the credits for the games he has been involved in listed on Wikipedia. I see few F2P listed there. What makes him an authority on the subject? His experience is mostly with just one company too. Just because someone publishes a book it never meant they knew best, remember that phrase, those who can't - teach.
He devloped and ran Metaplace.com. He also doesn't exist in a vacuum and spends a lot of time consulting. Is it your contention that since you've played a lot of video games your personal view of game design and how the industry works is more valid than the experience of those who have been successfully working in the industry for 30 or so years? If so, don't worry, there's a lot of people here like that, so you're in good company.
You don't need an expert to coin a term. Everyone knows a very small number of players pay through the roof. It is not uncommon to name a customer segment. So he borrows the term from the gambling industry and it sticks.
Why is his expertise relevant?
Funny you are the only one that uses it here, and call people that dont even buy from a cash shop a WHALE. Its kind of derogatory and yoiu should not use it. Since you dont know who spends money over the rest, calling someone who pays for a sub a whale is not only ignorant but childish all together.
And for the record that term is stupid beyond belief being used in the gaming industry. Just saying.
you are just wrong.
First, i never call people a whale for paying a sub. That is NOT the defintiion. I have also never called a particular person a whale, since i do not know who is one.
Secondly, i will use the term when it fits the meaning .. i.e. ... the few players who pays a lot more than the norm in a F2P game. Do you have another term for it?
If you are so easier offended on the internet, it is your problem, not mine.
No im not wrong, you have even called me a whale in a different post.
Just because someone tries to be cool and coin a new phrase or term doesnt mean you need to use it. That term is derogatory and just stupid. Many here dislike that including myself.
There are many terms for race, sex, culture, religion but just because they are around doesnt mean you have to use it.
There is no term required for people that wish to pay for their entertainment, everyone pays at one point in life to someone.
Its your way to by sly and insult someone, but nonetheless its a derogatory term.
Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
Why should someone play so many games ?
Who cares why? The point is that most players play games that way - console, PC or online. It's not because they're not engaging, it's just how most people play video games. As a result, $25 a month may work for you but there are very few you in the market.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Aelious In legitimately worried about a lot of the F2P games over the next few years. There are new, quality titles coming out that will either free (EQN) or sub (AA possibly) and wild cards such as ESO or Wildstar (not sure on model announcement).
Each of these could chip away at the playerbases of every game but F2P titles are the most vulnerable due to a smaller percentage supporting the game. I wonder how many titles will be closed or unsupported by 2015.
Actually I would say that assumption is probably wrong. The majority of the player base is likely playing for free. Those that are paying are probably enjoying the game and are invested in playing it.
However in sub based games there are probably lots of people thinking I am paying 15 a month and not really enjoying this game. Maybe it is time to switch.
Each player lost in a sub based game is a paying one. So a bigger proportion of paying players will likely be leaving the sub based game.
All speculation of course, but I think my scenario makes as much sense as the other, without conclusive evidence.
Yeah I would say this is a huge assumption based on your personal outlook and opinion on subs. I was keeping my personal opinion out. I'm looking from the perpective of total revenue coming in to a company since there does need to be a revenue stream.
Per your own words more people play free than sub (or purchase in CS) so when new games release F2P titles are at bigger risk for revenue loss because the free players are irrelevent and spenders a lot more impactful if lost.
The biggest risk to current F2P games come with EQN. It's a big IP and if it's a quality game not only will subs move but also free players.
These are the credits for the games he has been involved in listed on Wikipedia. I see few F2P listed there. What makes him an authority on the subject? His experience is mostly with just one company too. Just because someone publishes a book it never meant they knew best, remember that phrase, those who can't - teach.
He devloped and ran Metaplace.com. He also doesn't exist in a vacuum and spends a lot of time consulting. Is it your contention that since you've played a lot of video games your personal view of game design and how the industry works is more valid than the experience of those who have been successfully working in the industry for 30 or so years? If so, don't worry, there's a lot of people here like that, so you're in good company.
You don't need an expert to coin a term. Everyone knows a very small number of players pay through the roof. It is not uncommon to name a customer segment. So he borrows the term from the gambling industry and it sticks.
Why is his expertise relevant?
Funny you are the only one that uses it here, and call people that dont even buy from a cash shop a WHALE. Its kind of derogatory and yoiu should not use it. Since you dont know who spends money over the rest, calling someone who pays for a sub a whale is not only ignorant but childish all together.
And for the record that term is stupid beyond belief being used in the gaming industry. Just saying.
oyou are just wrong.
First, i never call people a whale for paying a sub. That is NOT the defintiion. I have also never called a particular person a whale, since i do not know who is one.
Secondly, i will use the term when it fits the meaning .. i.e. ... the few players who pays a lot more than the norm in a F2P game. Do you have another term for it?
If you arie so easier offended on the internet, it is your problem, not mine.
No im not wrong, you have even called me a whale in a different post.
Just because someone tries to be cool and coin a new phrase or term doesnt mean you need to use it. That term is derogatory and just stupid. Many here dislike that including myself.
There are many terms for race, sex, culture, religion but just because they are around doesnt mean you have to use it.
There is no term required for people that wish to pay for their entertainment, everyone pays at one point in life to someone.
Its your way to by sly and insult someone, but nonetheless its a derogatory term.
It's an industry standard slang for someone who pays a lot in F2P / Cash Shop games especially where there is no subscription. They are "big" spenders, like a whale. People who spend a lot in cash shops are referred to as whales. There are a lot of industry terms with meanings that are less than cuddly.
And that makes it less derogatory? Just because a rapper calls women the B word, its ok to label them all like that? Sorry but no go here. Terms are sometimes better not used. What if a poster was over weight and he called them a whale? Would kind of be insulting, yes? Again, its a sly way to insult someone. And that term isnt even a widely used here, its a gambling term coined by one guy and thats all of the sudden a industry term? Call them high rollers then, atleast thats not derogatory.
Comments
The monthly sub model may not be dead yet but it's on its way out. There are probably millions of video games players who regard the concept of paying a monthly sub as a ridiculous idea. However, those same players are used to the idea of DLC's to get added content to their games and once most mmo's come in B2P, F2P and freemium flavours and they will, I can see a big increase in new people coming to the mmo market.
Personally, I have three of my favourite mmo's available to me now without a sub. LotRO for which I have a lifetime sub, TSW, which has just gone B2P and GW2, which is not only B2P but which I'm enjoying more than any sub based game since pre cu SWG. The only other game on my radar atm is The Repopulation. That's not due out until the end of the year at the earliest but will also be F2P. I really think it's unlikely I'll ever bother with a sub based game again, whatever the actual sub level. It would have to be something really exceptional to tempt me.
I think they should offer a $15 monthly fee and the option to buy game hours, like APB did briefly at its initial launch. Buying game hours is more expensive than a $15 fee if you play the MMO a lot, but saves money if you play casually.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
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Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?
So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.
We dont need more mmorpgs we need good mmorpgs again.
exactly, you cant even go to the movies for less than 20$ now and thats only 2 hrs worth. Cant go to the park with out gas, entrance fee, food, and cost me 100 last time i went. Took my wife out to eat this past weekend and cost me 45$. I spend 40-45 a week in gas, so just going joy ridding would cost much more. A trip, cruise, flight, anything else cost a ton. Going ot the amusement park just for a day will cost you 100 easy, or buying the season pass is like 100$. Going to a concert will cost you. damn i spend more than that on trivial things daily lol.
15$/month for unlimited entertainment is not intimidating, its a relief! Because 1 sub keeps me, my wife, and child content. And saves me hundreds more in the long run. Not saying we dont go out, but with the economy being tight we limit ourselves to once every two week outtings now.
And yes bones i do blame that on poor mmorpg's that are released this day in age. Who wants to pay a monthly fee for a clone, poor quality game that lacks features/content, or for a game released too early and riddled with bugs?
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
you are just wrong.
First, i never call people a whale for paying a sub. That is NOT the defintiion. I have also never called a particular person a whale, since i do not know who is one.
Secondly, i will use the term when it fits the meaning .. i.e. ... the few players who pays a lot more than the norm in a F2P game. Do you have another term for it?
If you are so easier offended on the internet, it is your problem, not mine.
Why should someone play so many games ? The only reason could be that the games suck and therfore people are always after the next one to find their kick, but they never will find something which satisfy them. A really good game sucks you in for a long time, not just for 3 months, and you dont need 20 others just because the cost for it are low. These arguements that a game is "free to play" or have low costs are irrelevant, people are looking for a quality game and they would pay for it.
Are you sure you are not just a game hopper always to find the next kick which lasts only for a short time ?
Thanks again for proving my point. Thats why I don't buy coffees, or smoke, or go to bars very often. Not only do they kill you faster, all these things can add up pretty quickly. I also don't have a data plan or smartphone because I think the prices for those are ridiculous also.
It seems people today are just so used to paying a little bit here and a little bit there that the art of frugality is lost to this generation. Cheap by your standards is not necessarily cheap by mine.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Of course. How many movies do you watch in a year? Does The Avengers suck when it only lasts less than 3 hours.
You are confused between quality and quantity.
I like high quality games, quantity in content (i.e. duration) .. not so much.
If I blew through the content of a MMO in 4 weeks, and have a great time, why not? Why do i have to consider only long games? I would much rather have a short and very fun game, then a long and mediocre one.
Most of these Pro Sub based games people are simply living in the past and think that every game like EQ and Ultima and AC1 smelled like roses when actually they are the same games they are playing today. The biggest difference? Better graphics. Sure UO was pretty sandboxy , but those games have proven to be barely niche worthy today.
The only difference then was fewer choices. So your buddies hung around the game longer than they do today. And playing with firends and community was what made it all so special back then. Same games now but the community has changed. And a game having a sub is not going to bring that back, boys and girls. It is just gone and you all need to accept that fact or move on to a new form of entertainment.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I dont think you can compare a movie with a good quality mmorpg with rich content. You invest time into the mmorpg to develop your character, to socialize with people, you join a guild and build friendship, you fight for your faction and so on....A movie is like a BigMac you just consume it and finish it in a short time.
If you are a game hopper and you invest loads of time into games but not into a single one and if you love switching games, go ahead there are thousands of mmorpgs out there but most of them are not high quality games. What was the longest time you stayed with a single mmo ? For me it was around 3 years.
I'm for any monetary system that can best secure the long-term health of the MMO. These things should only close down once in a generation, not in a couple years.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Let me guess??
Hmmm
WoW?
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Each of these could chip away at the playerbases of every game but F2P titles are the most vulnerable due to a smaller percentage supporting the game. I wonder how many titles will be closed or unsupported by 2015.
You have no clue what you are talking with what made a game like EQ great. The only thing remotely correct in your post is community was a part of why those games were great and the communities today have changed. What we dont know for sure if it was the games that caused that or it just happened. Looking at the games such as EQ2 and LOTRO that have more in common with the old generation games than games like Rift and Tera, it seems like its both. LOTRO and EQ2 have much better communities than most games, but still not what games like EQ had.
As for the price thing, its economics. Unless a game gets WoW numbers, it needs that money somehow. if it reduces subs by 2/3rds, then it has to get more cash shop sales. And I have yet to see a game improve once a cash shop is implemented, they have all fallen. Game experiences are certainly better without them.
Actually I would say that assumption is probably wrong. The majority of the player base is likely playing for free. Those that are paying are probably enjoying the game and are invested in playing it.
However in sub based games there are probably lots of people thinking I am paying 15 a month and not really enjoying this game. Maybe it is time to switch.
Each player lost in a sub based game is a paying one. So a bigger proportion of paying players will likely be leaving the sub based game.
All speculation of course, but I think my scenario makes as much sense as the other, without conclusive evidence.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I think the real problem isn't which model is more likely to be popular. It's which model is more likely to close down in the short term.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
No im not wrong, you have even called me a whale in a different post.
Just because someone tries to be cool and coin a new phrase or term doesnt mean you need to use it. That term is derogatory and just stupid. Many here dislike that including myself.
There are many terms for race, sex, culture, religion but just because they are around doesnt mean you have to use it.
There is no term required for people that wish to pay for their entertainment, everyone pays at one point in life to someone.
Its your way to by sly and insult someone, but nonetheless its a derogatory term.
Who cares why? The point is that most players play games that way - console, PC or online. It's not because they're not engaging, it's just how most people play video games. As a result, $25 a month may work for you but there are very few you in the market.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yeah I would say this is a huge assumption based on your personal outlook and opinion on subs. I was keeping my personal opinion out. I'm looking from the perpective of total revenue coming in to a company since there does need to be a revenue stream.
Per your own words more people play free than sub (or purchase in CS) so when new games release F2P titles are at bigger risk for revenue loss because the free players are irrelevent and spenders a lot more impactful if lost.
The biggest risk to current F2P games come with EQN. It's a big IP and if it's a quality game not only will subs move but also free players.
And that makes it less derogatory? Just because a rapper calls women the B word, its ok to label them all like that? Sorry but no go here. Terms are sometimes better not used. What if a poster was over weight and he called them a whale? Would kind of be insulting, yes? Again, its a sly way to insult someone. And that term isnt even a widely used here, its a gambling term coined by one guy and thats all of the sudden a industry term? Call them high rollers then, atleast thats not derogatory.