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What would make you interested in an open world PvP game?

2

Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoDAD

    I never understood why people shun player bounties. There are so many ways it can work.

    Like I stated in the above post, if a high level player continues to gank lowbies, then he or she will automatically be placed on The Player Bounty Boards. Anyone from the victim's faction can accept the mission. If the accused dies, then that player will be unable to play his character for a 5-7 days.

    You are probably thinking, "What kind of reward is that?" Heh. It's a reward that will certainly work. While the hunter may not get anything of value, the thrill of the hunt and the fact that knowing how angry the ganker will be when he finds out that he cannot play his character for another week is intoxicating to many PvP fans.

    If people feel that they need to be rewarded with more, then a "bounty collect history" or "hall of fame" can be thrown in - a way to earn titles or aesthetic items.

     

    Player Bounties can work. People are just too lazy to do 'em...

    Or they are taking the rest of the game into consideration. If your game lacks depth and meaning in every other aspect of the game then your system might work. If low level characters are completely useless in your game then your system might work. If either are false then your system creates a more frustrating situation than the one it tries to correct.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Disdena

    How many times have you played a game like GTA or Saints Row and decided not to break the law because it would result in a totally effing sweet police chase potentially ending with your magnificent death? That's how effective a bounty system is at stopping ganks.

    Well if by death you mean fail and die, for good, no reloading from a save....then that is a good deterent and in a single player game reloading is part of the game design. It is not in an MMO so you can't use a single player game design to justify the deisgn of a multiplayer one.

    The only real comparrison would be if you couldn't reload from a save in GA or SR...would you still break the law for that car chase if you knew getting caught ment you would have to stat the game again from the start? If you had to think about it then that proves the point.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon

    "What would make you interested in an open world PvP game? "

     

    with so many non-ow pvp games around? probably nothing

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

    Anything is possible in fantasy. It's actually much easier, because you've got teleportation magic and wizards and such. "A wizard did it" is a perfectly fine explanation for a much-needed gameplay-related system.

  • ScarfeScarfe londonPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

    Anything is possible in fantasy. It's actually much easier, because you've got teleportation magic and wizards and such. "A wizard did it" is a perfectly fine explanation for a much-needed gameplay-related system.

    You have just summed up what I hate about most fantasy in one simple phrase there. 

    currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

    Anything is possible in fantasy. It's actually much easier, because you've got teleportation magic and wizards and such. "A wizard did it" is a perfectly fine explanation for a much-needed gameplay-related system.

    Exactly. No one complained about the guards in UO being an immersion breaker. Actually, the EVE system is modelled after the UO system, UO being a fantasy game.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    If another player has the freedom to kill me anytime, anywhere, repeatedly...

    then I want the ability to own land, have a law forbidding anyone attacking another on it, the ability to have guards capture said killer, a jail to put them in, and the ability to repeatedly NOT let them out.

    Freedom to play how I want and player justice too!

    But that is what FFA OW PvP'ers want right?

    hehe, i like this :)

  • EzhaeEzhae LondonPosts: 737Member

    Meaningful risk, reward, punishment system as well as secondary goals.

     

    I don't want a ganker simulator. If a person A attacks perosn B unprovoked and it happens several times there needs to be consequence for person A in the game world. Either he ends up on Wanted list and killing him provides significant reward, or the guards in major cities/patrosl become hostile to him, etc.

    Same time, playing the game from the perspesctive of cold blood murderer fugitive/exile should be a game in itself. There should be content built specially for such characters. From safehavens, hidden bases of operations and stashes to resupply to a while system of "renown" that benefits the player that makes the name for himself through being an active "bad guy".

    Further more having some sort of territory control/ability to enforce your influence over a region is what gives a reason to have "non gank" pvp where groups can fight for said control in more organized fashion.

     

    In short, something like EVE, just better. 

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon

    If the game is lvl based they should make it like how Everquest1 pvp servers worked, you can only attack players within ur lvl range i think it was 5 levels appart or so from u level, this way you couldnt grief lower players and people you fight can still kill you even if a lower lvl than you. Although the classes wernt balanced round pvp since it was a  PvE made game. Surprising it still has one of the Best PvP sytem and server types ive seen.

    PvP Server types

    FFA PvP - As it says

    Pvp team Diety - The side you were on was dependant on the god you worshiped on chatacter creation

    PvP team races - 4 teams (Orges, darkelfs, Iskars, trolls (orange named Evil races) Vs Dwarf, Gnome, Halfing (Short races green names) Vs Woodelf, half elf, High elf (elf races purple names) VS Human, Erudite, barbarian (Humanish blue names)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    If another player has the freedom to kill me anytime, anywhere, repeatedly...

    then I want the ability to own land, have a law forbidding anyone attacking another on it, the ability to have guards capture said killer, a jail to put them in, and the ability to repeatedly NOT let them out.

    Freedom to play how I want and player justice too!

    But that is what FFA OW PvP'ers want right?

    hehe, i like this :)

    I think if it wasn't for the fact that real estate is limited to a good degree, devs would probably enjoy designing a system like that. The big hurdle isn't the system itself but in maintaining or decaying all the dormant or empty lots that would take up space.

    Between the elitist pricks and the people that genuinely want to have a safe haven for friends and guildmates, the idea of a secure, gated community within the game world seems to have wide appeal.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Capital punishment for griefers would be a good start. PvP without griefing consequences just shows why anarchy doesn't work. It has its uses as a social experiment, but that's about it.
  • SinellaSinella BudapestPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    Nothing. Forced PvP is only an annoyance for me, why would I be interested in it.
  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Scarfe
     

    Yes it is but was more of a wind up than a real comparison.  I am not a great fan of instanced pvp outside of GW1 or console shooters.  What I do enjoy but is non-existent these days is consensual open world pvp.  What I don't like is ganking. 

    This doesnt exist.  If it did, it would be horribly boring.

    The whole point of OWPvP is to provide a sense of danger while travelling the world.

    With the exception of high lvl characters preying on low level ones, ganking is one of the perks of OWPvP.  It means the person wasnt paying attention to surroundings. 

    It baffles me how people say they want to have OWPvP and yet have it completely neutered at the same time.  SWTOR did this and it was horrible.  They advertised OWPvP, but went to great lengths to keep it from happening. 

    My advice is to stick to a PvE server.

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Very simple. Don't mix pvp and pve.

    Do it like PS2 .. a 100% open world pvp game, and nothing else. Or don't do it at all.

  • Flex1Flex1 Cabo RojoPosts: 407Member

    Open world pvp.

    Ways to make it work and be rewarding.

     

    Add roads between major cities and make them be patroled by NPC guards, this guards will break up fights and jail both combatants. If they see a player killing another then they capture or if they cant they post bounties.

     

    If a fight is not witness by npc or player then there is no crime or bandit tag to the killer, the dead player can post bounties but Bounties dont tag a player with any color or indication that the player is a killer.

     

    Another point is not to make the pve part of the game suck bad, like it always happens.


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  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    I would like to see a 3+ faction setup that doesnt inhibit OWPvP.  I am looking for another experience similar to the days when Southshore and Tauren Mill were always busy.

     

     

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  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Disdena

    How many times have you played a game like GTA or Saints Row and decided not to break the law because it would result in a totally effing sweet police chase potentially ending with your magnificent death? That's how effective a bounty system is at stopping ganks.

    Well if by death you mean fail and die, for good, no reloading from a save....then that is a good deterent and in a single player game reloading is part of the game design. It is not in an MMO so you can't use a single player game design to justify the deisgn of a multiplayer one.

    The only real comparrison would be if you couldn't reload from a save in GA or SR...would you still break the law for that car chase if you knew getting caught ment you would have to stat the game again from the start? If you had to think about it then that proves the point.

    I would, if I didn't care about beating the game. That more or less proves my point. Since it is only a game, there is very little reason to care about the consequences, especially if having a high level character with a bunch of cool swag is NOT your goal. Haven't you ever turned on an old SNES game (the kind with limited lives and continues) and done a bunch of goof-off stuff rather than playing the game seriously? Did the Game Over screen make you feel bad after all your lives were gone?

    Even in single player games with one life and no saving, it would still be absurd to call police surveillance a deterrent. It would be part of a system where you weigh one risk against another. Gotta get downtown in 2 minutes: drive my car or steal a faster one? I've got 1 cop chasing me: try to lose him or stay on target? You would design it to test the player's decisions, not to punish them for making a morally wrong choice.

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  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member
    Originally posted by evilastro

    I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

    I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

    The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

    So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

    First of all, no one would play this game.  I can agree with penalties for players abusing their power, but your ideas swing so far to the other side that you would be the only one playing this piece of crap game.  Let's at least keep our penalties on the rational side of the equation.  I would say a bounty system would be fantastic, except it only applies to players killing characters that are lower level beyond a certain threshhold.  Second, bounties would come as an automatic payment, not from the character's money or they would just hide it all until someone collected.  Next, there would have to be something that says you cannot collect the bounty if you have been in direct contact with the player, prior.  That way players cannot massacre lowbies and then have their friends kill them to split the bounty.

    As for other things that would make this game worth playing seige warfare, castle capture, and resource zones would be critical to giving you a point to play.  Also, it would need to be sandboxy with player crafted gear being the main way to equip yourself.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    Two things:

    1)  Viable non-combat activities.

    I don't mind a dangerous world, just so long as I have the option to advance in the game doing meaningful, non-combat work like building structures or weapons, building quests or creating entertaining characters who are rewarded for their entertainment value.

    2)  PKers who support diverse playstyles.

    I don't mind PKers, just as long as they roleplay (play in character and not as a 'toon'), support the needs of crafters (decay, craft-based economy over loot based), and become a citizen of the game (not running off to buffbots, interact with people outside of their TS/Vent set).  We're all in this together and we ought to support the things we might not understand or like, so we can enjoy the things we like.  We are asking a lot of the other playstyles when we ask them to support PK.  PKers ought to support a lot in return.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Raventree
    Originally posted by evilastro

    I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

    I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

    The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

    So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

    First of all, no one would play this game.  I can agree with penalties for players abusing their power, but your ideas swing so far to the other side that you would be the only one playing this piece of crap game.  Let's at least keep our penalties on the rational side of the equation.  I would say a bounty system would be fantastic, except it only applies to players killing characters that are lower level beyond a certain threshhold.  Second, bounties would come as an automatic payment, not from the character's money or they would just hide it all until someone collected.  Next, there would have to be something that says you cannot collect the bounty if you have been in direct contact with the player, prior.  That way players cannot massacre lowbies and then have their friends kill them to split the bounty.

    As for other things that would make this game worth playing seige warfare, castle capture, and resource zones would be critical to giving you a point to play.  Also, it would need to be sandboxy with player crafted gear being the main way to equip yourself.

    if the bounty money dont come from character's money it is 1. easily exploitable (friend collecting bounty - and no, there is no way you can prevent it with some "no prior direct contact"), 2. usually not a punishment for that character at all.

    as for hiding his money, it is easy - the bounty will be a choice - either cough up the money, or spend RL week in prison.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Raventree
    Originally posted by evilastro

    I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

    I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

    The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

    So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

    First of all, no one would play this game.  I can agree with penalties for players abusing their power, but your ideas swing so far to the other side that you would be the only one playing this piece of crap game.  Let's at least keep our penalties on the rational side of the equation.  I would say a bounty system would be fantastic, except it only applies to players killing characters that are lower level beyond a certain threshhold.  Second, bounties would come as an automatic payment, not from the character's money or they would just hide it all until someone collected.  Next, there would have to be something that says you cannot collect the bounty if you have been in direct contact with the player, prior.  That way players cannot massacre lowbies and then have their friends kill them to split the bounty.

    As for other things that would make this game worth playing seige warfare, castle capture, and resource zones would be critical to giving you a point to play.  Also, it would need to be sandboxy with player crafted gear being the main way to equip yourself.

    actually i would say proly more ppl would play such game then ow pvp game w/o consequences, since more people avoid ow pvp mmorpgs.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    OP you have a deal, as long as when I pk you, you are perma dead. "Goes hand and hand with murder" right?

    Btw AoW system works. You'll have to play to understand. The rules have created a culture. I know now, I'm not a criminal, but donkt get in my way.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by Raventree
    Originally posted by evilastro

    I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

    I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

    The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

    So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

    First of all, no one would play this game.  I can agree with penalties for players abusing their power, but your ideas swing so far to the other side that you would be the only one playing this piece of crap game.  Let's at least keep our penalties on the rational side of the equation.  I would say a bounty system would be fantastic, except it only applies to players killing characters that are lower level beyond a certain threshhold.  Second, bounties would come as an automatic payment, not from the character's money or they would just hide it all until someone collected.  Next, there would have to be something that says you cannot collect the bounty if you have been in direct contact with the player, prior.  That way players cannot massacre lowbies and then have their friends kill them to split the bounty.

    As for other things that would make this game worth playing seige warfare, castle capture, and resource zones would be critical to giving you a point to play.  Also, it would need to be sandboxy with player crafted gear being the main way to equip yourself.

    if the bounty money dont come from character's money it is 1. easily exploitable (friend collecting bounty - and no, there is no way you can prevent it with some "no prior direct contact"), 2. usually not a punishment for that character at all.

    as for hiding his money, it is easy - the bounty will be a choice - either cough up the money, or spend RL week in prison.

    Or you could just make sure currency is just a number and make the money automatically transfer. No banks or anything to put currency into. If funds are short, then you would get a portion of all money they make in the future until you are payed off. Basically garnished wages.

  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    actually i would say proly more ppl would play such game then ow pvp game w/o consequences, since more people avoid ow pvp mmorpgs.

    A PVP-based game in which the penalties for PVPing are the most harsh ever implemented?  I think not. 

    As for the comments about bounty, I agree somewhat with the prior poster.  I think an automatic payment type of bounty would only work if you could prevent friends from gaming the system.  Otherwise, maybe it really should come out of the player's cash.  Hell, maybe he even loses a random piece of equipped gear as a special little backhand to the face.  You could NOT use this bounty to prevent players from PVPing though, only from lowbie ganking, otherwise your PVP game is self-defeating and will fail.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • A.BlacklochA.Blackloch NexusPosts: 831Member

    I used to like pvp when it was happening randomly on open world, like when I was traveling in enemy lands. Now that it's mostly happening on certain arenas or minigames in every single mmorpg, I just ignore the whole pvp and focus more on pve etc. (which simply means a big chunk of game's content is automatically useless to me) It's just meaningless grind me thinks.

    Thing is, I like pvp but so far no one knows how to cater it properly. Even I'm not sure how it should be done so it would please me. :)

    image image image

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