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Originally posted by AlBQuirky Didn't vote. Not a choice I liked. What's wrong with old school?
Its not worth it. You get the same quality games with F2P. And there hasn't been a justification for a 15$ monthly fee for a long while now. Practically every game covers its costs with box sales alone. Good ones cover the next few expansions too. Subscription fee is mostly profit. Only a small amount goes to running costs.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by QuirhidOriginally posted by AlBQuirkyDidn't vote. Not a choice I liked.What's wrong with old school?
Old School games were worth the sub fee. I just don't see what is wrong with that
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc Originally posted by Boneserino "Games arent run on thin air, as some people seem to think, people have to be paid, resources such as power, bandwidth, etc etc. all have to be paid for, personally i'd rather pay through a sub fee that gives me 100 percent access to game content, than pay through the nose for 'extras' in the cash shops of various F2P games. " I respect your right to choose sub based games. I think you are going to find it increasingly hard though. However, when you make statements like the one above which is completely biased and untrue, when you refer to "paying thru the nose" it just shows your ignorance. Paying thru the nose is a choice. A sub is not. Also F2P games make money, otherwise they would not be operating. Another false statement on your part. But hey, you are just another of the Pay 2 Win crowd spouting the same tired story.
LOL ppl still believe F2P (p2win) is a good thing?
Hehe yeah its hilarious!!
Ya know whats even funnier??
People that actually think you can win an MMO!! Tee hee hee ROFL!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
The monthly sub model may not be dead yet but it's on its way out. There are probably millions of video games players who regard the concept of paying a monthly sub as a ridiculous idea. However, those same players are used to the idea of DLC's to get added content to their games and once most mmo's come in B2P, F2P and freemium flavours and they will, I can see a big increase in new people coming to the mmo market.
Personally, I have three of my favourite mmo's available to me now without a sub. LotRO for which I have a lifetime sub, TSW, which has just gone B2P and GW2, which is not only B2P but which I'm enjoying more than any sub based game since pre cu SWG. The only other game on my radar atm is The Repopulation. That's not due out until the end of the year at the earliest but will also be F2P. I really think it's unlikely I'll ever bother with a sub based game again, whatever the actual sub level. It would have to be something really exceptional to tempt me.
I think they should offer a $15 monthly fee and the option to buy game hours, like APB did briefly at its initial launch. Buying game hours is more expensive than a $15 fee if you play the MMO a lot, but saves money if you play casually.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
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Originally posted by Boneserino Originally posted by Onomas Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by MMOExposed Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
$15 a month is intimidating ? It's kind of frightning to actually sit back and think about the type of people who actually complain about the cost of playing an mmo.
I can see not wanting to pay for a game you only play once or twice a month but if it's THE game you're playing $15 is cheaper than anything else you can do for fun....for a whole month.
Its the only thing in real life that hasnt gone up 100-300% in the past decade lol. If the price to play a mmo actualy went up to account for inflation of other things you would be paying 90$ per month
15$/month in todays economy isnt anything lol. For 24/7 entertainment and equal ground in game as everyone else, not having to pay for content, inventory, character slots, etc........ is it realy even an issue?
The only issue is the fact crap games are infesting the market and no one wants to pay a monthly fee for a game barely good enough to be a single player game.
You do realize Onomas that 15 dollars a month adds up to $180 don't you? And what if you have to pay for the box as well, say $60? That comes to $240 a year. Now if you were going to make a purchase that cost that much, would you not at least think carefully before making that decision?
Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?
So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.
Originally posted by MMOExposed but 5$ a month sub model is the thing of the future. Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is. And with growing number of MMORPG game list, consumers would be better off being able to sub to multiple MMOs rather than commit to a single 15$ a month AAA MMO. By lowering it down to 5$ a month, consumers can squeeze 3 AAA MMOs out of a single month with that same traditional 15$ a month. With more MMORPG on the game list, more will be played at a time for the avg MMO consumer in theory. (and even more for those that already comfortable with coughing over 60+$ a month to play multiple MMOs) keep in mind this is about sub model alternative then doing the risky F2P and B2P models.
We dont need more mmorpgs we need good mmorpgs again.
Originally posted by daltanious Originally posted by Boneserino Originally posted by Onomas Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by MMOExposed Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
exactly, you cant even go to the movies for less than 20$ now and thats only 2 hrs worth. Cant go to the park with out gas, entrance fee, food, and cost me 100 last time i went. Took my wife out to eat this past weekend and cost me 45$. I spend 40-45 a week in gas, so just going joy ridding would cost much more. A trip, cruise, flight, anything else cost a ton. Going ot the amusement park just for a day will cost you 100 easy, or buying the season pass is like 100$. Going to a concert will cost you. damn i spend more than that on trivial things daily lol.
15$/month for unlimited entertainment is not intimidating, its a relief! Because 1 sub keeps me, my wife, and child content. And saves me hundreds more in the long run. Not saying we dont go out, but with the economy being tight we limit ourselves to once every two week outtings now.
And yes bones i do blame that on poor mmorpg's that are released this day in age. Who wants to pay a monthly fee for a clone, poor quality game that lacks features/content, or for a game released too early and riddled with bugs?
Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?
Originally posted by Onomas Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by greenreen These are the credits for the games he has been involved in listed on Wikipedia. I see few F2P listed there. What makes him an authority on the subject? His experience is mostly with just one company too. Just because someone publishes a book it never meant they knew best, remember that phrase, those who can't - teach.
He devloped and ran Metaplace.com. He also doesn't exist in a vacuum and spends a lot of time consulting. Is it your contention that since you've played a lot of video games your personal view of game design and how the industry works is more valid than the experience of those who have been successfully working in the industry for 30 or so years? If so, don't worry, there's a lot of people here like that, so you're in good company.
You don't need an expert to coin a term. Everyone knows a very small number of players pay through the roof. It is not uncommon to name a customer segment. So he borrows the term from the gambling industry and it sticks.
Why is his expertise relevant?
Funny you are the only one that uses it here, and call people that dont even buy from a cash shop a WHALE. Its kind of derogatory and yoiu should not use it. Since you dont know who spends money over the rest, calling someone who pays for a sub a whale is not only ignorant but childish all together.
And for the record that term is stupid beyond belief being used in the gaming industry. Just saying.
you are just wrong.
First, i never call people a whale for paying a sub. That is NOT the defintiion. I have also never called a particular person a whale, since i do not know who is one.
Secondly, i will use the term when it fits the meaning .. i.e. ... the few players who pays a lot more than the norm in a F2P game. Do you have another term for it?
If you are so easier offended on the internet, it is your problem, not mine.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Why should someone play so many games ? The only reason could be that the games suck and therfore people are always after the next one to find their kick, but they never will find something which satisfy them. A really good game sucks you in for a long time, not just for 3 months, and you dont need 20 others just because the cost for it are low. These arguements that a game is "free to play" or have low costs are irrelevant, people are looking for a quality game and they would pay for it.
Are you sure you are not just a game hopper always to find the next kick which lasts only for a short time ?
Thanks again for proving my point. Thats why I don't buy coffees, or smoke, or go to bars very often. Not only do they kill you faster, all these things can add up pretty quickly. I also don't have a data plan or smartphone because I think the prices for those are ridiculous also.
It seems people today are just so used to paying a little bit here and a little bit there that the art of frugality is lost to this generation. Cheap by your standards is not necessarily cheap by mine.
Originally posted by spizz Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Of course. How many movies do you watch in a year? Does The Avengers suck when it only lasts less than 3 hours.
You are confused between quality and quantity.
I like high quality games, quantity in content (i.e. duration) .. not so much.
If I blew through the content of a MMO in 4 weeks, and have a great time, why not? Why do i have to consider only long games? I would much rather have a short and very fun game, then a long and mediocre one.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by spizz Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by steelheartx I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.
Most of these Pro Sub based games people are simply living in the past and think that every game like EQ and Ultima and AC1 smelled like roses when actually they are the same games they are playing today. The biggest difference? Better graphics. Sure UO was pretty sandboxy , but those games have proven to be barely niche worthy today.
The only difference then was fewer choices. So your buddies hung around the game longer than they do today. And playing with firends and community was what made it all so special back then. Same games now but the community has changed. And a game having a sub is not going to bring that back, boys and girls. It is just gone and you all need to accept that fact or move on to a new form of entertainment.
I dont think you can compare a movie with a good quality mmorpg with rich content. You invest time into the mmorpg to develop your character, to socialize with people, you join a guild and build friendship, you fight for your faction and so on....A movie is like a BigMac you just consume it and finish it in a short time.
If you are a game hopper and you invest loads of time into games but not into a single one and if you love switching games, go ahead there are thousands of mmorpgs out there but most of them are not high quality games. What was the longest time you stayed with a single mmo ? For me it was around 3 years.
I'm for any monetary system that can best secure the long-term health of the MMO. These things should only close down once in a generation, not in a couple years.
__________________________"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."--Arcken
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Let me guess??
Originally posted by Boneserino Most of these Pro Sub based games people are simply living in the past and think that every game like EQ and Ultima and AC1 smelled like roses when actually they are the same games they are playing today. The biggest difference? Better graphics. Sure UO was pretty sandboxy , but those games have proven to be barely niche worthy today. The only difference then was fewer choices. So your buddies hung around the game longer than they do today. And playing with firends and community was what made it all so special back then. Same games now but the community has changed. And a game having a sub is not going to bring that back, boys and girls. It is just gone and you all need to accept that fact or move on to a new form of entertainment.
You have no clue what you are talking with what made a game like EQ great. The only thing remotely correct in your post is community was a part of why those games were great and the communities today have changed. What we dont know for sure if it was the games that caused that or it just happened. Looking at the games such as EQ2 and LOTRO that have more in common with the old generation games than games like Rift and Tera, it seems like its both. LOTRO and EQ2 have much better communities than most games, but still not what games like EQ had.
As for the price thing, its economics. Unless a game gets WoW numbers, it needs that money somehow. if it reduces subs by 2/3rds, then it has to get more cash shop sales. And I have yet to see a game improve once a cash shop is implemented, they have all fallen. Game experiences are certainly better without them.
Originally posted by Aelious In legitimately worried about a lot of the F2P games over the next few years. There are new, quality titles coming out that will either free (EQN) or sub (AA possibly) and wild cards such as ESO or Wildstar (not sure on model announcement). Each of these could chip away at the playerbases of every game but F2P titles are the most vulnerable due to a smaller percentage supporting the game. I wonder how many titles will be closed or unsupported by 2015.
Actually I would say that assumption is probably wrong. The majority of the player base is likely playing for free. Those that are paying are probably enjoying the game and are invested in playing it.
However in sub based games there are probably lots of people thinking I am paying 15 a month and not really enjoying this game. Maybe it is time to switch.
Each player lost in a sub based game is a paying one. So a bigger proportion of paying players will likely be leaving the sub based game.
All speculation of course, but I think my scenario makes as much sense as the other, without conclusive evidence.