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What's the theme of this box?

bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon

I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

 

What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

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Comments

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    One could argue that missions, quests and instances to be themepark elements

    Other could argue based on what it lacks, which would be housing, terraforming and such

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dinams
    One could argue that missions, quests and instances to be themepark elements

    Those are the three I thought of, with missions being a kind of blend. What percent would you say is the split?

  • mindw0rkmindw0rk St-petersburgPosts: 1,351Member
    There are thousands of quests and few dungeons, but in more then 2 weeks I havent done any of them and I dont feel like I miss something
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

    What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

    Players follow a basic storyline (one of a half dozen)

    Combat is the primary path, with professions intended to complement fighting, not to provide an alternative to it.

     

    Other than that, the game seems to look toward open ended gameplay in most other areas but seems to lack many of the social tools that make the sandbox content more than just alternate themepark grinds. It's an interesting mix of themepark and sandbox, but without social emphasis the sandbox side tends to fall flat much the way themepark does when it lacks forced interdependency.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

    What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

    Players follow a basic storyline (one of a half dozen)

    Combat is the primary path, with professions intended to complement fighting, not to provide an alternative to it.

     

    Other than that, the game seems to look toward open ended gameplay in most other areas but seems to lack many of the social tools that make the sandbox content more than just alternate themepark grinds. It's an interesting mix of themepark and sandbox, but without social emphasis the sandbox side tends to fall flat much the way themepark does when it lacks forced interdependency.

     

    Exactly what crafting would you like to see that didn't complement fighting? Are you thinking Lotro style house decorations in crafting or something else?

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    This is a hybrid being that ive played on the Far right (Sandbox) Far Left (Themepark) and see that it fits in the middle.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

    What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

    Players follow a basic storyline (one of a half dozen)

    Combat is the primary path, with professions intended to complement fighting, not to provide an alternative to it.

    Other than that, the game seems to look toward open ended gameplay in most other areas but seems to lack many of the social tools that make the sandbox content more than just alternate themepark grinds. It's an interesting mix of themepark and sandbox, but without social emphasis the sandbox side tends to fall flat much the way themepark does when it lacks forced interdependency.

    Exactly what crafting would you like to see that didn't complement fighting? Are you thinking Lotro style house decorations in crafting or something else?

    My statement wasn't that the end results of crafting were solely intended for use by fighters, but that the crafting professions are designed to complement your main path as a fighter, not replace it.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

    What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

    Players follow a basic storyline (one of a half dozen)

    Combat is the primary path, with professions intended to complement fighting, not to provide an alternative to it.

    Other than that, the game seems to look toward open ended gameplay in most other areas but seems to lack many of the social tools that make the sandbox content more than just alternate themepark grinds. It's an interesting mix of themepark and sandbox, but without social emphasis the sandbox side tends to fall flat much the way themepark does when it lacks forced interdependency.

    Exactly what crafting would you like to see that didn't complement fighting? Are you thinking Lotro style house decorations in crafting or something else?

    My statement wasn't that the end results of crafting were solely intended for use by fighters, but that the crafting professions are designed to complement your main path as a fighter, not replace it.

    I said "no right and wrong answers, buuut ;) Perhaps you didn't know about fishing, weqi, devination, and caligraphy.

     

    What social elements do you feel are missing? I'm in no guild and have a 20+ person friend list (talk to 7 or 8 of them a day for all types of things) a couple follwers a hand full of enemies, and I random open world group atleast 3 times a day. School leaders, deacons, managers,  guild keeps, guildwars, and an inter-connected profession system. Honest question, what elements are missing?

     

    damnit I bit... So what are the theme park elements in this game? What's the split?

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    no one likes fishing.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    no one likes fishing.

    lmao best fishing in a mmorpg evaaa! to bad I can't sell any of this. I wanted to open a fish market. Gonna have to wait till later in live I guess lol.

     

    @gary the *Number 1 Evil* guy put a warrent on me tonight... wtf huh? So as i type I'm chilling in my stall trying to make some cash. I set it up before they take me to prison and end my night.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Hamilton, OHPosts: 325Member

    Sandbox games give the players the ability to actually alter the code in a game to include, move or remove game ellements. If you can't plop down a building or town, move things around the landscape or otherwise affect the game world in a permenant manner, then it has zero to do with the concept of sandbox.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

    What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

    Players follow a basic storyline (one of a half dozen)

    Combat is the primary path, with professions intended to complement fighting, not to provide an alternative to it.

    Other than that, the game seems to look toward open ended gameplay in most other areas but seems to lack many of the social tools that make the sandbox content more than just alternate themepark grinds. It's an interesting mix of themepark and sandbox, but without social emphasis the sandbox side tends to fall flat much the way themepark does when it lacks forced interdependency.

    Exactly what crafting would you like to see that didn't complement fighting? Are you thinking Lotro style house decorations in crafting or something else?

    My statement wasn't that the end results of crafting were solely intended for use by fighters, but that the crafting professions are designed to complement your main path as a fighter, not replace it.

    I said "no right and wrong answers, buuut ;) Perhaps you didn't know about fishing, weqi, devination, and caligraphy.

    What social elements do you feel are missing? I'm in no guild and have a 20+ person friend list (talk to 7 or 8 of them a day for all types of things) a couple follwers a hand full of enemies, and I random open world group atleast 3 times a day. School leaders, deacons, managers,  guild keeps, guildwars, and an inter-connected profession system. Honest question, what elements are missing?

    Ah, the snake pit. nvm.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    Sandbox games give the players the ability to actually alter the code in a game to include, move or remove game ellements. If you can't plop down a building or town, move things around the landscape or otherwise affect the game world in a permenant manner, then it has zero to do with the concept of sandbox.

    You know you just disqualified EVE from being a sandbox right? 

     

    On topic though. What do you feel are the theme park elements of the game

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I'm in the camp of, AoW is about as sandy as it gets. Others think AoW is a hybrid.

    What I'd like to know is, what do you feel are the "themepark" elements? Is it slpit 50/50?  No right or wrong answers here, but i'd like to hear some.

    Players follow a basic storyline (one of a half dozen)

    Combat is the primary path, with professions intended to complement fighting, not to provide an alternative to it.

    Other than that, the game seems to look toward open ended gameplay in most other areas but seems to lack many of the social tools that make the sandbox content more than just alternate themepark grinds. It's an interesting mix of themepark and sandbox, but without social emphasis the sandbox side tends to fall flat much the way themepark does when it lacks forced interdependency.

    Exactly what crafting would you like to see that didn't complement fighting? Are you thinking Lotro style house decorations in crafting or something else?

    My statement wasn't that the end results of crafting were solely intended for use by fighters, but that the crafting professions are designed to complement your main path as a fighter, not replace it.

    I said "no right and wrong answers, buuut ;) Perhaps you didn't know about fishing, weqi, devination, and caligraphy.

     

    What social elements do you feel are missing? I'm in no guild and have a 20+ person friend list (talk to 7 or 8 of them a day for all types of things) a couple follwers a hand full of enemies, and I random open world group atleast 3 times a day. School leaders, deacons, managers,  guild keeps, guildwars, and an inter-connected profession system. Honest question, what elements are missing?

    Ah, the snake pit. nvm.

    Look you got me to bite. The least you could do is answer my honest questions about the social elements you think are missing, and what is this storyline you keep talking of. Is it good?

     

    edit - what are you talking about at all? 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    Sandbox games give the players the ability to actually alter the code in a game to include, move or remove game ellements. If you can't plop down a building or town, move things around the landscape or otherwise affect the game world in a permenant manner, then it has zero to do with the concept of sandbox.

    I know that crafters can help to build the guild's village once they control territory. Not sure if it's in an instanced area, conquerable or any of the other specifics beyond that.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    Sandbox games give the players the ability to actually alter the code in a game to include, move or remove game ellements. If you can't plop down a building or town, move things around the landscape or otherwise affect the game world in a permenant manner, then it has zero to do with the concept of sandbox.

    I know that crafters can help to build the guild's village once they control territory. Not sure if it's in an instanced area, conquerable or any of the other specifics beyond that.

    Open world, and conquerable.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Hamilton, OHPosts: 325Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    Sandbox games give the players the ability to actually alter the code in a game to include, move or remove game ellements. If you can't plop down a building or town, move things around the landscape or otherwise affect the game world in a permenant manner, then it has zero to do with the concept of sandbox.

    You know you just disqualified EVE from being a sandbox right? 

     

    On topic though. What do you feel are the theme park elements of the game

     Ok, well then Eve isn't a sandbox, the term itself should be fairly apparent to everyone if you think about it. If a game developer makes a game world you can join and persistantly alter such as city building, then they have given you a sandbox to play in as you will.

    If a game developer makes a game world that you simply have fun on their premade rides then it's a themepark , people think because some games have an economy they are sandbox and that is where the confusion is.

    So if you as a player have the GUI to affect the code of the game by making permenant changes as you see fit,  you sir are in a sandbox. Anything else is themepark no matter how tedious it is or how many rocks you mine.

  • HokieHokie Vancouver Wa.Posts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrpappy
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    Sandbox games give the players the ability to actually alter the code in a game to include, move or remove game ellements. If you can't plop down a building or town, move things around the landscape or otherwise affect the game world in a permenant manner, then it has zero to do with the concept of sandbox.

    You know you just disqualified EVE from being a sandbox right? 

     

    On topic though. What do you feel are the theme park elements of the game

     Ok, well then Eve isn't a sandbox, the term itself should be fairly apparent to everyone if you think about it. If a game developer makes a game world you can join and persistantly alter such as city building, then they have given you a sandbox to play in as you will.

    If a game developer makes a game world that you simply have fun on their premade rides then it's a themepark , people think because some games have an economy they are sandbox and that is where the confusion is.

    So if you as a player have the GUI to affect the code of the game by making permenant changes as you see fit,  you sir are in a sandbox. Anything else is themepark no matter how tedious it is or how many rocks you mine.

    I hate to be the one to tell you this. Your definition of sandbox is incorrect as how it currently releates to MMOs and what is commonly accepted to mean by the developers and the players.

    Sand Box is player choice. Or more specifically putting choice back in the players hands. The more freedom to choose the more snadbox game is. The more guided the player is the more theampark it is.

     

    It has nothing to do with changing, adding or removing game code... As a matter of fact, how the fu..., hell did you even come up with that?!?

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • CnameCname KinabaluPosts: 125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    So if you as a player have the GUI to affect the code of the game by making permenant changes as you see fit,  you sir are in a sandbox. Anything else is themepark no matter how tedious it is or how many rocks you mine.

    So griefers can add permanent  code  "Area effect:  Cause 9999hp dps on newbie as they enter "  to ground area where new players spawn into this "sandbox"  and watch the virtual bodies pilling up...

    Next idea please... 

    "A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cname
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    So if you as a player have the GUI to affect the code of the game by making permenant changes as you see fit,  you sir are in a sandbox. Anything else is themepark no matter how tedious it is or how many rocks you mine.

    Griefers add permanent  code "Area affect:  cause 9999hp dps on newbie as they enter "  to ground area where new players spawn into this "sandbox"  and watch the virtual bodies pilling up...

    Next idea please... 

    You're not creative enough for griefing in a sandbox, sir.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Cname
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    So if you as a player have the GUI to affect the code of the game by making permenant changes as you see fit,  you sir are in a sandbox. Anything else is themepark no matter how tedious it is or how many rocks you mine.

    Griefers add permanent  code "Area affect:  cause 9999hp dps on newbie as they enter "  to ground area where new players spawn into this "sandbox"  and watch the virtual bodies pilling up...

    Next idea please... 

    You're not creative enough for griefing in a sandbox, sir.

    I suppose, and I have said it before, second life is the only real sandbox under the strict definition of the word. That is not to say that "sandbox" is always well defined, it was used on Grand Theft Auto, elder scrolls games and more that I am sure were also not true "sandbox". Just google those games and sandbox and you will get very respectable names in the gaming business using that title on those products. Under the most strict definition of the word, we simple have The Second Life, even such titles as Wurm and Eve and UO fail to meet that high standard of total player control, and they are suppose to do so! How stupid would it be if you could change your character in Wurm to an alien with three heads riding a magic pony at will, or if you could modify Age of Wushu to have a casino near Tang Castle.

    I do not however agree that Sandbox and Themepark are the only two options, these are false divisions we have imposed on the market. There are plenty of other variables, open world, linear story driven, player story driven, simulation, 2d, 3d, housing, open character classes...the list is really almost endless. Yet always its this stupid one or the other divide we hear about which is totally wrong.

    There is obviously more choices when you walk into Gamestop than just side scroller and first person shooter. There is obviously a wider range of models in online gaming between absolute chaos in the second life and single rail themeparks like SW:tor.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Cname
    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    So if you as a player have the GUI to affect the code of the game by making permenant changes as you see fit,  you sir are in a sandbox. Anything else is themepark no matter how tedious it is or how many rocks you mine.

    Griefers add permanent  code "Area affect:  cause 9999hp dps on newbie as they enter "  to ground area where new players spawn into this "sandbox"  and watch the virtual bodies pilling up...

    Next idea please... 

    You're not creative enough for griefing in a sandbox, sir.

    I suppose, and I have said it before, second life is the only real sandbox under the strict definition of the word. That is not to say that "sandbox" is always well defined, it was used on Grand Theft Auto, elder scrolls games and more that I am sure were also not true "sandbox". Just google those games and sandbox and you will get very respectable names in the gaming business using that title on those products. Under the most strict definition of the word, we simple have The Second Life, even such titles as Wurm and Eve and UO fail to meet that high standard of total player control, and they are suppose to do so! How stupid would it be if you could change your character in Wurm to an alien with three heads riding a magic pony at will, or if you could modify Age of Wushu to have a casino near Tang Castle.

    I do not however agree that Sandbox and Themepark are the only two options, these are false divisions we have imposed on the market. There are plenty of other variables, open world, linear story driven, player story driven, simulation, 2d, 3d, housing, open character classes...the list is really almost endless. Yet always its this stupid one or the other divide we hear about which is totally wrong.

    There is obviously more choices when you walk into Gamestop than just side scroller and first person shooter. There is obviously a wider range of models in online gaming between absolute chaos in the second life and single rail themeparks like SW:tor.

    Were you responding to one of the previous posts? I'm not sure what that has to do with what we were joking about. If it was in response to my post, not only is it some kind of major tangent, but it argues points I've never made ( nor anyone in this thread, really).

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • mistmakermistmaker viennaPosts: 232Member Uncommon

    its definitly not a sandbox game but...

     

    it has some elements which are part of good sandbox games, like that

    you are not on rails and can do "what you want" and

    can do stuff without killing any and

    a good crafting system

    kind of open skill system

    open pvp with a good criminal system

     

     

    what is missing is the open world without instances, a real housing system, there should be no teleport system (IMO)

     

    so its a nice hybrid mix IMO.  65% theme / 35% sand. but i guess, 100% sand wouldnt be a good game, but i would prefer 65/35 the other way. (improved SWG)

     

     

     

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mistmaker

    its definitly not a sandbox game but...

     

    it has some elements which are part of good sandbox games, like that

    you are not on rails and can do "what you want" and

    can do stuff without killing any and

    a good crafting system

    kind of open skill system

    open pvp with a good criminal system

     

     

    what is missing is the open world without instances, a real housing system, there should be no teleport system (IMO)

     

    so its a nice hybrid mix IMO.  65% theme / 35% sand. but i guess, 100% sand wouldnt be a good game, but i would prefer 65/35 the other way. (improved SWG)

     

     

     

     

    What are the theme elements? I haven't had anyone answer this. Will you please?

     

    The only thing I could come up with is, there a dungeons and quest, which you do not have to do any of in order to progress. This is why I say it's 90/10 split.

     

    In all theme parks you have to quest in order to progress. This is simply not the case in AoW.

  • mistmakermistmaker viennaPosts: 232Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by bcbully


    Originally posted by mistmaker its definitly not a sandbox game but...   it has some elements which are part of good sandbox games, like that you are not on rails and can do "what you want" and can do stuff without killing any and a good crafting system kind of open skill system open pvp with a good criminal system     what is missing is the open world without instances, a real housing system, there should be no teleport system (IMO)   so its a nice hybrid mix IMO.  65% theme / 35% sand. but i guess, 100% sand wouldnt be a good game, but i would prefer 65/35 the other way. (improved SWG)        
    What are the theme elements? I haven't had anyone answer this. Will you please?

     

    The only thing I could come up with is, there a dungeons and quest, which you do not have to do any of in order to progress. This is why I say it's 90/10 split.

     

    In all theme parks you have to quest in order to progress. This is simply not the case in AoW.


     
    i would say,

    no open world, there are instances and a lot of loading screens
    quests and a personal story
    you are choosing a class, here called school, and have no real freedom within the skills (ok, you theoretically can have all skills but you cant use them effectivly due to a global cooldown)

    for me, the most annoying thing is the not open world and the instances, unfortunately, most games are that way.

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