You can say that all you want, but thats almost as silly as the people who try to say WoW was an EQ clone. It is BLATANT that WoW was the blueprint for Rift. 3 tree system. skill upgrades every 2 levels. Battleground PvP. recycled dungeons at maxk level meant to be run endlessly for currency. endgame based on tiered carrot on a stick currency grind. bare minimum, gather, click, combine crafting.
Yes, GW2 has a few of these and Rift has moved away from a WoW clone, but its still very close to WoW and added a helathy dose of EQ2.
It remains behind those two games though because it lacks the charm or soul of either.
You can say that all you want, but thats almost as silly as the people who try to say WoW was an EQ clone. It is BLATANT that WoW was the blueprint for Rift. 3 tree system. skill upgrades every 2 levels. Battleground PvP. recycled dungeons at maxk level meant to be run endlessly for currency. endgame based on tiered carrot on a stick currency grind. bare minimum, gather, click, combine crafting.
Yes, GW2 has a few of these and Rift has moved away from a WoW clone, but its still very close to WoW and added a helathy dose of EQ2.
It remains behind those two games though because it lacks the charm or soul of either.
Sure, it's a blueprint, but it's also very different. People are just so jaded and cynical that if it's even remotely close to the "WoW forumla" it's a clone.
Rift has a three tree system. WoW does not, and even when it did the one in Rift isn't an exact copy. Rift has nine different trees that you are free to mix and match along with seperate trees at level cap. By spending points in the tree you get abilities. The two talent systems are very different, but since it's a three talent tree system, it's a clone of what's been done.
Rift has battleground PVP. WoW has battleground PVP. They are exactly the same except that they're not. Rift has different maps, and also has things to promote open world PVP. SWTOR has battlegrounds too, but I can't find an experience similar to that of Huttball in GW2, Rift, or WoW.
Recycled dungeon content along with all the open world content, instant adventures, rifts, tears, raid rifts etc. Yup, they sure are the exact same.
Rift has an extensive housing system. WoW does not. Rift has a collections system. WoW has archeology. They're similar, but not the same.
GW2 has dynamic events like Rift. Does that make it a Rift clone? No, of course not.
I'm sick of people expecting games in the same genre (MMORPGs), even the same sub-genre(themaparks), to be vastly different from one another. There's going to be overlapping ideas. It doesn't mean that one of them is a "clone" of another.
You can say that all you want, but thats almost as silly as the people who try to say WoW was an EQ clone. It is BLATANT that WoW was the blueprint for Rift. 3 tree system. skill upgrades every 2 levels. Battleground PvP. recycled dungeons at maxk level meant to be run endlessly for currency. endgame based on tiered carrot on a stick currency grind. bare minimum, gather, click, combine crafting.
Yes, GW2 has a few of these and Rift has moved away from a WoW clone, but its still very close to WoW and added a helathy dose of EQ2.
It remains behind those two games though because it lacks the charm or soul of either.
Sure, it's a blueprint, but it's also very different. People are just so jaded and cynical that if it's even remotely close to the "WoW forumla" it's a clone.
Rift has a three tree system. WoW does not, and even when it did the one in Rift isn't an exact copy. Rift has nine different trees that you are free to mix and match along with seperate trees at level cap. By spending points in the tree you get abilities. The two talent systems are very different, but since it's a three talent tree system, it's a clone of what's been done.
Rift has battleground PVP. WoW has battleground PVP. They are exactly the same except that they're not. Rift has different maps, and also has things to promote open world PVP. SWTOR has battlegrounds too, but I can't find an experience similar to that of Huttball in GW2, Rift, or WoW.
Recycled dungeon content along with all the open world content, instant adventures, rifts, tears, raid rifts etc. Yup, they sure are the exact same.
Rift has an extensive housing system. WoW does not. Rift has a collections system. WoW has archeology. They're similar, but not the same.
GW2 has dynamic events like Rift. Does that make it a Rift clone? No, of course not.
I'm sick of people expecting games in the same genre (MMORPGs), even the same sub-genre(themaparks), to be vastly different from one another. There's going to be overlapping ideas. It doesn't mean that one of them is a "clone" of another.
no two MMOs released were ever as close as WoW and Rift. Of ocurse they were never identical, but I have never seen a title so blatantly use another game as its base in this genre. Rift was clearly "what can we do to WoW to make it better?" So they let people pick the three trees, added collections from eq2, and added the public quest system. But this was clearly added on top of a WoW base. Rift isnt the only game to do this (SWtOR), but they changed the least from it.
Games like EQ2, WoW, TSW, and GW2 were based off 'what can we do to this genre to make it better' as opposed to 'what can we do to this game to make it better'
Since you used the words WoW clone, I doubt I'll be able to explain to you what makes Rift different. Rift is no more of a WoW clone than GW2 is. They do things differently. It has an unlimited free trial. Go try it for yourself.
I leveled a character in RIFT to 20 level. Those were the most boring 20 levels Ive ever experienced in themepark MMORPG. They basically holded my arm sending from point A to point B to point C, feeding me quests that were so dull, I wanted to kill myself. So my question is still there. What people find good in RIFT? Its not graphics thats for sure. There are MMOs with much better visuals. PvP? No. Combat? No. Its miles behind TERA and WoW's combat. Maybe raiding? Ive heard its quite okey'ish
Since you used the words WoW clone, I doubt I'll be able to explain to you what makes Rift different. Rift is no more of a WoW clone than GW2 is. They do things differently. It has an unlimited free trial. Go try it for yourself.
I leveled a character in RIFT to 20 level. Those were the most boring 20 levels Ive ever experienced in themepark MMORPG. They basically holded my arm sending from point A to point B to point C, feeding me quests that were so dull, I wanted to kill myself. So my question is still there. What people find good in RIFT? Its not graphics thats for sure. There are MMOs with much better visuals. PvP? No. Combat? No. Maybe raiding? Ive heard its quite okey'ish
some people just dig it. It is an endgame focused game though, 1-50 is treated as an inconvenience to get through as fast as possible (hence adding IAs, which are mostly recycled quests, instead of new zones/content). If you like WoW's endgame youll probably like Rift's quite a bit as well.
EQ Mac is the best one currently running. population is increasing . it's stuck in time in 2002 . It's not a quest hub game , it's a grind monsters for xp game. It's really the only option for non-quest hub people.
go to the rerolled.org / "new fires of heaven after the big fight"
w/e and find the pc shortcut to play it without a mac..
Nope Temerity hasn't killed quarm yet . i'd think they would soon . been in potime for awhile now . their guild+
You can say that all you want, but thats almost as silly as the people who try to say WoW was an EQ clone. It is BLATANT that WoW was the blueprint for Rift. 3 tree system. skill upgrades every 2 levels. Battleground PvP. recycled dungeons at maxk level meant to be run endlessly for currency. endgame based on tiered carrot on a stick currency grind. bare minimum, gather, click, combine crafting.
Yes, GW2 has a few of these and Rift has moved away from a WoW clone, but its still very close to WoW and added a helathy dose of EQ2.
It remains behind those two games though because it lacks the charm or soul of either.
Sure, it's a blueprint, but it's also very different. People are just so jaded and cynical that if it's even remotely close to the "WoW forumla" it's a clone.
Rift has a three tree system. WoW does not, and even when it did the one in Rift isn't an exact copy. Rift has nine different trees that you are free to mix and match along with seperate trees at level cap. By spending points in the tree you get abilities. The two talent systems are very different, but since it's a three talent tree system, it's a clone of what's been done.
Rift has battleground PVP. WoW has battleground PVP. They are exactly the same except that they're not. Rift has different maps, and also has things to promote open world PVP. SWTOR has battlegrounds too, but I can't find an experience similar to that of Huttball in GW2, Rift, or WoW.
Recycled dungeon content along with all the open world content, instant adventures, rifts, tears, raid rifts etc. Yup, they sure are the exact same.
Rift has an extensive housing system. WoW does not. Rift has a collections system. WoW has archeology. They're similar, but not the same.
GW2 has dynamic events like Rift. Does that make it a Rift clone? No, of course not.
I'm sick of people expecting games in the same genre (MMORPGs), even the same sub-genre(themaparks), to be vastly different from one another. There's going to be overlapping ideas. It doesn't mean that one of them is a "clone" of another.
no two MMOs released were ever as close as WoW and Rift. Of ocurse they were never identical, but I have never seen a title so blatantly use another game as its base in this genre. Rift was clearly "what can we do to WoW to make it better?" So they let people pick the three trees, added collections from eq2, and added the public quest system. But this was clearly added on top of a WoW base. Rift isnt the only game to do this (SWtOR), but they changed the least from it.
Games like EQ2, WoW, TSW, and GW2 were based off 'what can we do to this genre to make it better' as opposed to 'what can we do to this game to make it better'
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it? Rift did their own thing, and eventually got further and further away from WoW. There are major differences, and there were when the game launched as well. People overgeneralize features like talent trees and endgame content. I can play WoW and play Rift and have a very different experience because the two handle the way things work differently. Yes, I'm using a talent tree. No they're not the same thing. Yes, I'm chasing carrots. No, it's not the same.
If they make a good game that people enjoy then they have improved the genre.
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it?
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
EQ Mac is the best one currently running. population is increasing . it's stuck in time in 2002 . It's not a quest hub game , it's a grind monsters for xp game. It's really the only option for non-quest hub people.
go to the rerolled.org / "new fires of heaven after the big fight"
w/e and find the pc shortcut to play it without a mac..
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it?
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
Tell me which games have built from the ground up? A very small handful of games like EVE have done something different and built their own foundation. The majority of themeparks all use ideas that already exist. That includes WoW, EQ2, TSW, GW2 etc. They all build upon each other. It's ridiculous to expect developers to come up with completely new or re-imagined ideas for every video game and every feature they release. GW2 built upon ideas that have been lingering around the genre for quite some time, but I wouldn't say it shows a distinct lack of originality.
EQ Mac is the best one currently running. population is increasing . it's stuck in time in 2002 . It's not a quest hub game , it's a grind monsters for xp game.
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it?
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
Tell me which games have built from the ground up? A very small handful of games like EVE have done something different and built their own foundation. The majority of themeparks all use ideas that already exist. That includes WoW, EQ2, TSW, GW2 etc. They all build upon each other. It's ridiculous to expect developers to come up with completely new or re-imagined ideas for every video game and every feature they release. GW2 built upon ideas that have been lingering around the genre for quite some time, but I wouldn't say it shows a distinct lack of originality.
None of these games took an existing MMO as their start point like Rift did. They used the genre as their start point.
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it?
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
Tell me which games have built from the ground up? A very small handful of games like EVE have done something different and built their own foundation. The majority of themeparks all use ideas that already exist. That includes WoW, EQ2, TSW, GW2 etc. They all build upon each other. It's ridiculous to expect developers to come up with completely new or re-imagined ideas for every video game and every feature they release. GW2 built upon ideas that have been lingering around the genre for quite some time, but I wouldn't say it shows a distinct lack of originality.
None of these games took an existing MMO as their start point like Rift did. They used the genre as their start point.
I think that's a bunch of rubbish. At launch, Rift had several things that were clearely not inspired by WoW, but as you say by other ideas from the genre. Rifts, zone events, a much more complex talent system, collections, zone puzzles, open world raids, dynamic events that scale with zone population, and a system to customize the way you look.
In any case, it's pretty obvious we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this and I'm fine with letting it stand at that.
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it?
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
Tell me which games have built from the ground up? A very small handful of games like EVE have done something different and built their own foundation. The majority of themeparks all use ideas that already exist. That includes WoW, EQ2, TSW, GW2 etc. They all build upon each other. It's ridiculous to expect developers to come up with completely new or re-imagined ideas for every video game and every feature they release. GW2 built upon ideas that have been lingering around the genre for quite some time, but I wouldn't say it shows a distinct lack of originality.
None of these games took an existing MMO as their start point like Rift did. They used the genre as their start point.
I think that's a bunch of rubbish. At launch, Rift had several things that were clearely not inspired by WoW, but as you say by other ideas from the genre. Rifts, zone events, a much more complex talent system, collections, zone puzzles, open world raids, dynamic events that scale with zone population, and a system to customize the way you look.
In any case, it's pretty obvious we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this and I'm fine with letting it stand at that.
you even admitted a few posts ago that Rift started by trying to improve WoW. Im not sure if you don't understand what I am getting at or don't want to understand what Im getting at.
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it?
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
Tell me which games have built from the ground up? A very small handful of games like EVE have done something different and built their own foundation. The majority of themeparks all use ideas that already exist. That includes WoW, EQ2, TSW, GW2 etc. They all build upon each other. It's ridiculous to expect developers to come up with completely new or re-imagined ideas for every video game and every feature they release. GW2 built upon ideas that have been lingering around the genre for quite some time, but I wouldn't say it shows a distinct lack of originality.
None of these games took an existing MMO as their start point like Rift did. They used the genre as their start point.
I think that's a bunch of rubbish. At launch, Rift had several things that were clearely not inspired by WoW, but as you say by other ideas from the genre. Rifts, zone events, a much more complex talent system, collections, zone puzzles, open world raids, dynamic events that scale with zone population, and a system to customize the way you look.
In any case, it's pretty obvious we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this and I'm fine with letting it stand at that.
you even admitted a few posts ago that Rift started by trying to improve WoW. Im not sure if you don't understand what I am getting at or don't want to understand what Im getting at.
Yes, Rift did try to improve on what WoW had done, but also took inspiration from other sources within the genre, which is what I've been saying the entire time (or at least tried to.) Rift built upon multiple games just like most MMORPG's do, which seems to be something that you refuse to understand.
It doesn't bother me that you call Rift a WoW clone. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think it's a big generalization and isn't really a fair comparison for all the reasons I've already stated. I don't think there is such a thing as a WoW clone and generally find the idea behind the term to be irrelevant when used in the majority of cases.
In case anyone is wondering I ended up going with lotro for two reasons. This guy's explanation of:
"best themepark for those who value the journey above the destination -LOTRO (EQ2)" and the fact that I stumbled upon a shadows of agmar box at a local gamestop. 30 days vip for $10 is enough to entice anyone to try I feel.
Comments
You can say that all you want, but thats almost as silly as the people who try to say WoW was an EQ clone. It is BLATANT that WoW was the blueprint for Rift. 3 tree system. skill upgrades every 2 levels. Battleground PvP. recycled dungeons at maxk level meant to be run endlessly for currency. endgame based on tiered carrot on a stick currency grind. bare minimum, gather, click, combine crafting.
Yes, GW2 has a few of these and Rift has moved away from a WoW clone, but its still very close to WoW and added a helathy dose of EQ2.
It remains behind those two games though because it lacks the charm or soul of either.
Sure, it's a blueprint, but it's also very different. People are just so jaded and cynical that if it's even remotely close to the "WoW forumla" it's a clone.
Rift has a three tree system. WoW does not, and even when it did the one in Rift isn't an exact copy. Rift has nine different trees that you are free to mix and match along with seperate trees at level cap. By spending points in the tree you get abilities. The two talent systems are very different, but since it's a three talent tree system, it's a clone of what's been done.
Rift has battleground PVP. WoW has battleground PVP. They are exactly the same except that they're not. Rift has different maps, and also has things to promote open world PVP. SWTOR has battlegrounds too, but I can't find an experience similar to that of Huttball in GW2, Rift, or WoW.
Recycled dungeon content along with all the open world content, instant adventures, rifts, tears, raid rifts etc. Yup, they sure are the exact same.
Rift has an extensive housing system. WoW does not. Rift has a collections system. WoW has archeology. They're similar, but not the same.
GW2 has dynamic events like Rift. Does that make it a Rift clone? No, of course not.
I'm sick of people expecting games in the same genre (MMORPGs), even the same sub-genre(themaparks), to be vastly different from one another. There's going to be overlapping ideas. It doesn't mean that one of them is a "clone" of another.
no two MMOs released were ever as close as WoW and Rift. Of ocurse they were never identical, but I have never seen a title so blatantly use another game as its base in this genre. Rift was clearly "what can we do to WoW to make it better?" So they let people pick the three trees, added collections from eq2, and added the public quest system. But this was clearly added on top of a WoW base. Rift isnt the only game to do this (SWtOR), but they changed the least from it.
Games like EQ2, WoW, TSW, and GW2 were based off 'what can we do to this genre to make it better' as opposed to 'what can we do to this game to make it better'
I leveled a character in RIFT to 20 level. Those were the most boring 20 levels Ive ever experienced in themepark MMORPG. They basically holded my arm sending from point A to point B to point C, feeding me quests that were so dull, I wanted to kill myself. So my question is still there. What people find good in RIFT? Its not graphics thats for sure. There are MMOs with much better visuals. PvP? No. Combat? No. Its miles behind TERA and WoW's combat. Maybe raiding? Ive heard its quite okey'ish
some people just dig it. It is an endgame focused game though, 1-50 is treated as an inconvenience to get through as fast as possible (hence adding IAs, which are mostly recycled quests, instead of new zones/content). If you like WoW's endgame youll probably like Rift's quite a bit as well.
EQ Mac is the best one currently running. population is increasing . it's stuck in time in 2002 . It's not a quest hub game , it's a grind monsters for xp game. It's really the only option for non-quest hub people.
go to the rerolled.org / "new fires of heaven after the big fight"
w/e and find the pc shortcut to play it without a mac..
Nope Temerity hasn't killed quarm yet . i'd think they would soon . been in potime for awhile now . their guild+
What's wrong with taking an already excellent product and trying to improve upon it? Rift did their own thing, and eventually got further and further away from WoW. There are major differences, and there were when the game launched as well. People overgeneralize features like talent trees and endgame content. I can play WoW and play Rift and have a very different experience because the two handle the way things work differently. Yes, I'm using a talent tree. No they're not the same thing. Yes, I'm chasing carrots. No, it's not the same.
If they make a good game that people enjoy then they have improved the genre.
Because its lazy and shows a distinct lack of originality. Most games build from the ground up. Rift (and a couple others) built from WoW up.
And perhaps this is why (to many, many people) Rift is missing that spark, charm, or soul-whatever you want to call it. They seem to have been too focused on making a game they felt others would want to play (using wow as a base) instead of creating a game with their own vision.
EQ mac isnt a themepark though.
Has Quarm been killed yet?
Tell me which games have built from the ground up? A very small handful of games like EVE have done something different and built their own foundation. The majority of themeparks all use ideas that already exist. That includes WoW, EQ2, TSW, GW2 etc. They all build upon each other. It's ridiculous to expect developers to come up with completely new or re-imagined ideas for every video game and every feature they release. GW2 built upon ideas that have been lingering around the genre for quite some time, but I wouldn't say it shows a distinct lack of originality.
You must be kidding, right?
Guild Wars 2
great updates and communication.
I love the secret jumping puzzles and story
None of these games took an existing MMO as their start point like Rift did. They used the genre as their start point.
I think that's a bunch of rubbish. At launch, Rift had several things that were clearely not inspired by WoW, but as you say by other ideas from the genre. Rifts, zone events, a much more complex talent system, collections, zone puzzles, open world raids, dynamic events that scale with zone population, and a system to customize the way you look.
In any case, it's pretty obvious we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this and I'm fine with letting it stand at that.
you even admitted a few posts ago that Rift started by trying to improve WoW. Im not sure if you don't understand what I am getting at or don't want to understand what Im getting at.
Yes, Rift did try to improve on what WoW had done, but also took inspiration from other sources within the genre, which is what I've been saying the entire time (or at least tried to.) Rift built upon multiple games just like most MMORPG's do, which seems to be something that you refuse to understand.
It doesn't bother me that you call Rift a WoW clone. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think it's a big generalization and isn't really a fair comparison for all the reasons I've already stated. I don't think there is such a thing as a WoW clone and generally find the idea behind the term to be irrelevant when used in the majority of cases.
In case anyone is wondering I ended up going with lotro for two reasons. This guy's explanation of:
"best themepark for those who value the journey above the destination -LOTRO (EQ2)" and the fact that I stumbled upon a shadows of agmar box at a local gamestop. 30 days vip for $10 is enough to entice anyone to try I feel.