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Did UO ruin me for other MMOs or am i just not a fan of MMOs ?

2

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon

    Seems to me most of the early titles such as UO, AC, SWG and DAOC were all "very special snowflakes" in their day, with features and designs that are largely water-down or eliminated from modern MMORPG's.

    Regardless of the reasons for the changes, if a person really fell in love with one of those early titles they appear to be doomed to endless search for the real successor to that first game and it never happens, because almost nothing today is similar to the early games.

    It really isn't so much that it was their first game, in my case DAOC was actually my 2nd, but I've been searching for its replacement ever since with no success.  I went on to enjoy other special MMO's, such as EVE, and would love to see a similar design that let me swing a broadsword instead of shooting a laser.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • PsiKahnPsiKahn Woodside, NYPosts: 126Member
    I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.
  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member

    The problem is that ´we´ are just smarter now and have expectations.

    When I played UO.

    1. It was not uncommon to have 12-24hr maintainence on Tuesdays

    2. It was not unccommon to have 2-5 day rollbacks ( they actually had a two week roll-back recently)

    3. There was NO expectation of new content.  There would be a year without anything changing.  They would add little things like an orc invasion and ´orc masks´ and  bolas and that would be it for 6 months.  

    The problem with a sandbox game now is that anyone who has played a WOW type game would feel bored very quickly.  the game does not throw stuff in your face to do.. 

    The other big problem is that ´we´are much smarter about class/gear balance.   Players used to classes being balanced within 5% of each other like in WOW would never be able to play in a game where a Hally-mage was 50% better than anyone else for a full year.

    But mostly it would be about boredom.  nobody would want to play a game where you went into a dungeon for no reason other than to kill crap.

     

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    UO forced all types into it's game, not because they had some winning formula but because it was all that was on offer, this created the community that make it so great.

    Today if the same game came out, then it still wouldn't be THAT game, because the sheep the wolves used to hunt are now in their own safe havens, it's a great shame, but it wont ever be again, not until some massive leap takes place, and that leap is so niche that no one follows for years, an example would be the first VRMMO.

    Ya I mean, people that dont' want FFA pvp probably dont' have a choice but to play UO at that time.  Thus your fun is probably build by other people not having fun.

    Of course players had a choice, they could not play UO.  What kind of masochistic player continues playing a game where he's not having fun?

    Ask SWTOR players.

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by PsiKahn
    I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.

    A lot of the things people hate about current games goes back to things that needed fixing in UO.  Trust me, you unfix those mistakes and people will be even more unhappy.

    Big example.  Instanced dungeons.

    In UO, you could fight your way through a dungeon to a spot where you knew a certain type of monsters spawned...after 20 minutes you get there, only to find 10 other people all insta-killing those mobs as soon as they spawn for hours... worse yet was when it was a tamer that had no risk of ever dying.

    Stealing was always ´great´ in UO.  You always had to be aware of those around you.. but don´t worry, if you caught someone stealing from your backpack ( your silver vanquishing weapon).. you could always chase them for 10 minutes, maybe kill them, and open their backpack and find... only your weapon....  you go back to the bank,  5 minutes later the rogue was there again, stealing the same item..  you could chase him and kill him 99 times out of 100... and gain nothing... but the 1 time he got away, your item is gone.

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Enerzeal

    UO forced all types into it's game, not because they had some winning formula but because it was all that was on offer, this created the community that make it so great.

    Today if the same game came out, then it still wouldn't be THAT game, because the sheep the wolves used to hunt are now in their own safe havens, it's a great shame, but it wont ever be again, not until some massive leap takes place, and that leap is so niche that no one follows for years, an example would be the first VRMMO.

    Ya I mean, people that dont' want FFA pvp probably dont' have a choice but to play UO at that time.  Thus your fun is probably build by other people not having fun.

    Translates into "Laokoko never played UO". Trust me, even playing as a sheep you had fun. Wise sheeps learned to be prepared.

  • PsiKahnPsiKahn Woodside, NYPosts: 126Member
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by PsiKahn
    I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.

    A lot of the things people hate about current games goes back to things that needed fixing in UO.  Trust me, you unfix those mistakes and people will be even more unhappy.

    Big example.  Instanced dungeons.

    In UO, you could fight your way through a dungeon to a spot where you knew a certain type of monsters spawned...after 20 minutes you get there, only to find 10 other people all insta-killing those mobs as soon as they spawn for hours... worse yet was when it was a tamer that had no risk of ever dying.

    Stealing was always ´great´ in UO.  You always had to be aware of those around you.. but don´t worry, if you caught someone stealing from your backpack ( your silver vanquishing weapon).. you could always chase them for 10 minutes, maybe kill them, and open their backpack and find... only your weapon....  you go back to the bank,  5 minutes later the rogue was there again, stealing the same item..  you could chase him and kill him 99 times out of 100... and gain nothing... but the 1 time he got away, your item is gone.

    I wouldn't necessarily suggest "unfixing" those mistakes, but one might ask whether there could be new ways of rectifying them.  I'm not a fan of instancing for example, so I would rather see some creative thinking as to how to give players what they want without disrupting the continuity of the game world.

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by PsiKahn
    I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.

    A lot of the things people hate about current games goes back to things that needed fixing in UO.  Trust me, you unfix those mistakes and people will be even more unhappy.

    Big example.  Instanced dungeons.

    In UO, you could fight your way through a dungeon to a spot where you knew a certain type of monsters spawned...after 20 minutes you get there, only to find 10 other people all insta-killing those mobs as soon as they spawn for hours... worse yet was when it was a tamer that had no risk of ever dying.

    Stealing was always ´great´ in UO.  You always had to be aware of those around you.. but don´t worry, if you caught someone stealing from your backpack ( your silver vanquishing weapon).. you could always chase them for 10 minutes, maybe kill them, and open their backpack and find... only your weapon....  you go back to the bank,  5 minutes later the rogue was there again, stealing the same item..  you could chase him and kill him 99 times out of 100... and gain nothing... but the 1 time he got away, your item is gone.

    In UO you could do something about those campers. Plus the world was so vast there was always something else to do that was comparable. I know it may have sucked depending on the type of player you were, if you ran into campers, but at least the world felt active and alive as a result.

    And stealing was great. If you were stolen off of often then that just meant you never learned your lesson lol. Man, they usually didn't get to far from me when they did manage too nab something. Plus, I learned a lesson by getting runes to uncommon areas near a bank so that a theif couldn't even reach me. I dunno, just seemed like common sense....

    Its just your opinion that instanced dungeons are good. Most people who are playing these games haven't even had the opportunity to enjoy a game that is open in the same way DAOC or UO was. So no, I don't trust you. I just think you are going to have some people who stick with instanced dungeons, and some that will absolutely switch over to the seamless world when they see the different type of benefits that kind of game provides.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Luftwaffen
     sad part UO ruined itself trying to be soemthing it was never intended to be !   i would play UO still to this day if they had a UO classic server  but it wont ever happen 

    This sums up how I feel also.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

    yep I agree. I don't like MMOs any more. I like VWSs.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • AnslemAnslem Ft. Lauderdale, FLPosts: 215Member

    Ok, so, let's all make crafters on Lake Superior. 

    We just need a boat, some cloth, a runebook or two and we're good to go.

    Who's in!!??

    I've often blamed it on my age(ing) but no game has ever been as fantastic as UO for me. And I didn't even play Pre t2a!

    Might've been the fun times in Teamspeak, fighting in Buc's Den, or hanging out at West or East Brit Bank after Trammel came.

     

    Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -

  • AnslemAnslem Ft. Lauderdale, FLPosts: 215Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

    yep I agree. I don't like MMOs any more. I like VWSs.

    Does that mean games like Second Life. :( 

    Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Substitute "DAOC" for "UO" and your post would describe me pretty well. I think for some players there's just one game that works perfectly for them, and they always feel disappointed when playing other MMOs because those newer games in smaller or larger ways are different than their "perfect" game. I keep trying new MMOs hoping that I'll find one that comes close enough to DAOC that I'll be able to enjoy it for a long time, but so far none has come close. There's just certain things that have become standard in the genre especially post-WOW that just don't work for me. I expect it's the same thing that you or anybody else who fell in love with an older MMO before the genre became homogenized in the mid '00s feels.

    Ah, the Golden Age of MMOs. :) 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Traugar
    UO is what I call a real MMO.  It's not that you don't like MMO's.  You may just no like the direction they have taken.  The issue is that no one has made one on the same level as it that integrates modern technology.  Instead they have all catered to the lowest common denominator.  Many of those are fun and enjoyable, but they just aren't the same.  

    I love when people use this term when talking about MMOs... You know, because it takes such a great intellect to play an MMORPG...

     

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,417Member Uncommon
    I liked it alot  does not mean  best game design ever.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • LuftwaffenLuftwaffen Davenport, IAPosts: 41Member Uncommon

    for those argueing saying UO wasnt the best MMO ever  i must say i wasnt out to start a flame war i was mearly saying since UO no game has held my interest and this hole post was just my opinion on what it takes to be a great MMO and new age MMOs just aint cutting it lol

     

    first of all to me to be considerd a MMO a game MUST! be a open world not a instanced half assed attempt of a world ,second those of you saying instanced dungeons are best GTFO  if you want a game world all to your self go play a single player game lol 

     

    And UO had simple yet immerse pvp the magery system has yet to be riveled show me another game with magery mechanics like UO had how many spell combos , heals etc did ppl come up with ?  and Dexxers altho simple still took player skill to time heals , pots , boom pouches  etc i think ppl taking shit about UO pvp prolly pvped with a half built char lost then quit , one great thing about UOs pvp was you didnt need a 7x GM tank to compete i would do chaos and order wars with my 5x fencer and was competitive UO wasnt ALL tank mages like some say , sure they where fun to play  but in all honesty a GOOD dexxer had a good chance of beating a tank mage

     

    as far as crafting  im not an expert in UO it seemed  great cuz not everyone had a GM smith/tailor/carpenter  in the newer MMos i played it seems everyone is self suffucient everyone crafts there own items where in UO not many ppl had a mule with all crafting skills Gmed  soo there was a must better economy

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Martinsville, INPosts: 626Member
    Originally posted by Luftwaffen

    for those argueing saying UO wasnt the best MMO ever  i must say i wasnt out to start a flame war i was mearly saying since UO no game has held my interest and this hole post was just my opinion on what it takes to be a great MMO and new age MMOs just aint cutting it lol

     

    first of all to me to be considerd a MMO a game MUST! be a open world not a instanced half assed attempt of a world ,second those of you saying instanced dungeons are best GTFO  if you want a game world all to your self go play a single player game lol 

     

    And UO had simple yet immerse pvp the magery system has yet to be riveled show me another game with magery mechanics like UO had how many spell combos , heals etc did ppl come up with ?  and Dexxers altho simple still took player skill to time heals , pots , boom pouches  etc i think ppl taking shit about UO pvp prolly pvped with a half built char lost then quit , one great thing about UOs pvp was you didnt need a 7x GM tank to compete i would do chaos and order wars with my 5x fencer and was competitive UO wasnt ALL tank mages like some say , sure they where fun to play  but in all honesty a GOOD dexxer had a good chance of beating a tank mage

     

    as far as crafting  im not an expert in UO it seemed  great cuz not everyone had a GM smith/tailor/carpenter  in the newer MMos i played it seems everyone is self suffucient everyone crafts there own items where in UO not many ppl had a mule with all crafting skills Gmed  soo there was a must better economy

    SWG ruined any further mmo for me in the long term.  I get what your saying, you miss the feeling of being in a world and no current mmo feels like a world in the least.

  • LuftwaffenLuftwaffen Davenport, IAPosts: 41Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by treysmooth
    Originally posted by Luftwaffen

    for those argueing saying UO wasnt the best MMO ever  i must say i wasnt out to start a flame war i was mearly saying since UO no game has held my interest and this hole post was just my opinion on what it takes to be a great MMO and new age MMOs just aint cutting it lol

     

    first of all to me to be considerd a MMO a game MUST! be a open world not a instanced half assed attempt of a world ,second those of you saying instanced dungeons are best GTFO  if you want a game world all to your self go play a single player game lol 

     

    And UO had simple yet immerse pvp the magery system has yet to be riveled show me another game with magery mechanics like UO had how many spell combos , heals etc did ppl come up with ?  and Dexxers altho simple still took player skill to time heals , pots , boom pouches  etc i think ppl taking shit about UO pvp prolly pvped with a half built char lost then quit , one great thing about UOs pvp was you didnt need a 7x GM tank to compete i would do chaos and order wars with my 5x fencer and was competitive UO wasnt ALL tank mages like some say , sure they where fun to play  but in all honesty a GOOD dexxer had a good chance of beating a tank mage

     

    as far as crafting  im not an expert in UO it seemed  great cuz not everyone had a GM smith/tailor/carpenter  in the newer MMos i played it seems everyone is self suffucient everyone crafts there own items where in UO not many ppl had a mule with all crafting skills Gmed  soo there was a must better economy

    SWG ruined any further mmo for me in the long term.  I get what your saying, you miss the feeling of being in a world and no current mmo feels like a world in the least.

    ya i miised out on SWG i was never a fan of starwars so i passed up on that game, but the ppl i know who played it loved it

    i think the problem is these days MMos are dumbing down a bit and no games coming out trying to raise the bar , i thought Darkfall was that game  sure it has FFA pvp but the community sucks and the game lacks content everyone wears the same gear and joins all the zerg guilds just to be the best gankers in the land lol  everyone is there own smith tailor etc i would like to see a game come out acaully try to be the total package again  a true new age VWS id give up FFA PvP for a good guild waring system or even open pvp with risk as long as there was  a actual comunity  and ditch the world chat sytem lol

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Selyse
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

    yep I agree. I don't like MMOs any more. I like VWSs.

    Does that mean games like Second Life. :( 

    Every genre has it's bad examples. oO!  

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    UO was probably the greatest kept secret ever on the internet.

    From what I can gather reading these forums UO probably had somewhere around 1 billion subs at launch and everyone played it for 10+ years.....that or there are a lot of people on this site that are full of shit and never actually played it.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon
    Alot of us were fans of Ultima before UO came out......I remember trying it on a free trial because I liked the otehr games in the series.....After playing Uo I never thought I would like MMOs ever tbh.....This was long before Trammell came out.
  • Carl132pCarl132p Columbus, INPosts: 535Member Uncommon
    If you only like one band in a genre of music it doesn't mean that's the only band doing it right, it means you don't like that genre. Same thign applies here. Thread.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    An interesting point.  You know, I'm not sure I'm a fan of MMORPGs either.  I was a fan for the direction I thought they were headed, but certainly not for the direction in which they went.

    I can't imagine a world where Space Invaders remained the only game, unchanging, forever.

    But lots of unfortunate folks cannot ever move beyond their First Love (whether that's UO, or something else).

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Marcus-
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Although I hated UO... I had had it with RG's idiosyncrasies by then and was totally bored with Dupre, Iolo, virtues, etc., I have to agree with the majority of posts here that MMOs have gone all fluffy and are trying to pass off style as substance.

     

    MMOs should have been evolving into ever more realistic, comprehensive and inclusive worlds but instead they've been devolving into "shared-experience" single player games with chat lobbies.

     

    I still remember the days when new games promoted useful things like destructiblle environments and the ability to interact with everything and everyone...in other words, more realism. Now they create new wizbang limited content in a world of non-interactive background fluff.

    I never thought while playing i would consider UO the "best" MMO i ever played some 15 years later..

    I thought UO was the prototype, a rough draft of a living online "world" not something somewhat unique in a world consisting mostly of instances, lobbies, tiers, etc. Theres some out there that don't follow the market trend, i know, but they are far and few between, and theres been enough written about them i don't think i need to rehash.

     

    It (UO) was pretty buggy, to say the least, patch days were beyond horrific. The PvE was very basic, the PvP was as well.

    But it was all the little things that made the world come "alive". Player housing, player towns, hunting decorartive rares, musuems, the heavy dependancy on crafting, the Rpers, the PKs, fishtanks, treasure hunting.... all of it.

     

    Now, its a lot of cookie cutter.

     

    Its not rose-colored glasses... its feeling that your character can make a difference in the virtual world you are living in, if you so choose.

    Not everyone needs to be the hero.

    What's a fish tank?

    image

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