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[Column] Guild Wars 2: The Quest for Power

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,572MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Now that Guild Wars 2 has been out for several months, players are hitting level 80 with their first, and often second, third and fourth, characters and are wondering "What now?" In today's column, we take a look at that phenomenon. Check it out before lending your voice to the discussion in the comments.

The reason I bring this up is because I feel like ArenaNet has gone in a completely opposite direction with character progression after you’ve reached the level cap.  This time, it seems to just come to a screeching halt.  There are a few items players can try to grab up to gain a bit more strength than the exotic level items can give, but the increase is so minimal that it really isn’t worth the hassle.  ArenaNet seems to stay with their philosophy that items shouldn’t become more important than the character, and they do so by making exotics fairly easy to obtain.  I know a few people that just went and bought them!  This is great, but still Ascended gear was thrown for the Fractal of the Mist dungeon, and it didn’t really add to that never ending quest for power we players crave.  It just made that dungeon a bit easier.

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: The Quest for Power.

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Without some sort of reward, whether it’s a skill or a stat bonus, killing bosses just loses its luster.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,404Member Uncommon

    good read.

     

    at level 80 i cant have enough of  too may 'Fractals' which i think they have done an amazing job.

    tha said the rewards seem a bit low- with what uve said  would of been nice to earn a 'special' skill for completeing all the Fractals-or even unlocking a special small quest line with unique rewards.

    iam still waiting for specific order quests which we can buy from the shop? at level 80.

    that said I always look forward to Special events throughout the game-they never seem to get old  becouse there are always different players attending them- and thats fun!

    i have 4 alts still leveling and with them iam reflecting what they could of improved on.

    extending the game Lore and accessing special level 80+ skills comes to mind.

  • skorner64skorner64 North Andover, MAPosts: 47Member
    I think the way GW2 is designed is GREAT, but they need to add some rewards to dungeons and pvp that seem worth vying for...that doesn't influence game balance or becoem something you HAVE to do. Which is really hard to think of something like that.
     
  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    they need to beef up the amount of those "mini dungeons" out in the game zones, and have more complex events for lvl's 60+. just make them have real mechanics like kholer, subject alpha and lupicous.
     
     
    i say give us traits off of world bosses, and bring back skill capturing for elites.
     
  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    Buy to play game with longevity in the year 2013. Is that an expectation that's realistic ?
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by KingofHartz
    Buy to play game with longevity in the year 2013. Is that an expectation that's realistic ?

    Yes - Think of GW1 - it is still going although it is a little long in the tooth. How long do you expect to play? As long as they bring out expansions to GW2 - yes it is realistic.

     

    Just remember many sub games are buy to play one month then subscription.

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    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • DracondisDracondis Reston, VAPosts: 176Member
    This is the fundemental problem with MMOs: the grind is both unrewarding and tedious.  That we keep doing it, like cocaine addicted mice hitting the bar for another hit, both saddens and amuses me to no end.  Then again, I love schadenfreude as much as the next guy.
  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Think GW's endgame was always 'dress up' so not seeing anything new with GW2.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    I completely agree, but I am a bit torn on the subject. You see there is a reason Anet didn't include tons of skills and allow you to freely pick between them and have a secondary class like in GW1. It's because of the pvp. Therein lies the problem, you either balance for pvp and create shallower "progression" or have a hard as heck time balancing pvp and provide good horizontal progression.

     

    I always felt GW1 was a pvp game first and foremost. That's why I didn't really care too much about pve in it after I finished the story line, besides the pvp in GW1 was pretty damn good and the pve was just ok. But when I saw their approach for skills in GW2 I was SO HAPPY that they were thinking about balance. Until I played the game and figured out that the pve in it is also super fun, but because of that design decision it is also extremely limited in progression. I could see a skill system like the one in GW1 flourish in the game that is GW2, but I would hate to see it affect pvp the way it would.

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  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,404Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KingofHartz
    Buy to play game with longevity in the year 2013. Is that an expectation that's realistic ?

    yes- becouse with no sub fee, YOU as the player get to choose what you want out of the game and not spoon fed per an expansion- Anet has doen a great job at that many different routes to leveling ( i chose personal story) but my buddy did it by exploring and zone events -hes not a fan of dungeons (a post wow player bad experiences)

    my alts are beign leveled by wvw and spvp...some events and jumping puzzles- the game never feels the same!-and that i love!

     

    so choosing what to buy and when is key with future mmo's. play at your own pace no rat race to world first=ats for kids.

     
  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by KingofHartz
    Buy to play game with longevity in the year 2013. Is that an expectation that's realistic ?

    Yes - Think of GW1 - it is still going although it is a little long in the tooth. How long do you expect to play? As long as they bring out expansions to GW2 - yes it is realistic.

     

    Just remember many sub games are buy to play one month then subscription.

    Isn't GW1's longevity primarily driven by it's pvp/esport side? Whereas people are having an issue with the whole PVE/larger scale mmo side in terms of longevity with GW2.

     

    There is no doubt a highly specific/dedicated B2P multiplayer title can have longevity (so long as it is supreme in delivering that focused content). There though is still some doubt as to whether the model (especially when applied to a themepark which is content driven) can work for a fully fledged themepark mmo trying to appeal to a broad spectrum of players. Perhaps it can, but then it is expecting a lot.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • QSatuQSatu WarsawPosts: 1,733Member Uncommon
    I really hope they will add a lot of new ultility skills. And I would love some better elite skills which maybe aren't that powerfull but like in 1st GW they would define my character build. I miss this part of character building from 1st game.
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by QSatu
    I really hope they will add a lot of new ultility skills. And I would love some better elite skills which maybe aren't that powerfull but like in 1st GW they would define my character build. I miss this part of character building from 1st game.

    This, exactly.

    GW2 is build with supreme scalability in mind. PVP scales, WVW scales. There's no reason progression of skills couldn't be never-ending, as long as ArenaNet could add in tons of skills.

    I'd take multi-classing in PvE and WvW.  Leave it disabled for the eSports. Would love to do the multi-classing we saw in GW1, balance nightmare that it was.  But that's what the controlled part of sPVP is for.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    I have a hard time relating to the OP.  His goals are not mine at all.  I don't have this desire to 'prove myself' in a game, to myself or anyone else. Maybe this is a product of being in my 40's now, as when I was in my 20's to early 30's I was more concerned with the pecking order.

     

    I am more interested in seeing the game develop and grow as opposed to my own 'power'.  Grow the crafting, add some complexity and uniqueness to it, add more professions, bring some humor to the game, add housing, add mounts, add new places, create new stories, add new races.  I'm interested to see my characters place within the world grow, but I'm not putting little notches on my bow to keep track of my kills: that seems inconsequential.

     

    Looking at how I've played mmo's as opposed to fps, it's been more about how I fit in the world and community not how leet I was.  I want to find a place to fit in, not stand out.  I realize I may be 'different' though.

  • FailtrainFailtrain QueenstownPosts: 129Member
    And that is why the first Guild Wars was infinitely better than Guild Wars 2.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,259Member Uncommon
    I hit the "no more skills" wall at level 40. I couldn't imagine going another 40 levels doing the exact samething. 
  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 265Member Uncommon

    Yeah they really painted themselves into a bit of a corner with the way they tied 5 of your 10 skills to weapons.... Just starting recently I couldn't decide what class to play, not because they are all awesome, but because I just couldn't find a class/weapon combo that I really liked. They all have their skills that I like and ones that I don't, and with no way to mix and match I just couldn't find 'my' playstyle.

    I really like the variaty of the Elementalist in beta, but it feels like they have nerfed the PvE pretty hard since then, as for some reason it doesn't feel the same now. I've finally settled on sword + board / hammer Guardian... just hope I can enjoy  those same 5/5 skills for the next 75 levels.

    As a way to fix the problem raised in the OP.. I would love to see them introduce alternative weapon skills that you can swap out like the utility skills... prehaps earning them in a similar way as you did elite skills in GW1.

  • KanylKanyl a cold placePosts: 246Member Uncommon
    Even if most of us hates grinding, it sure feels nice when you have worked hard and get that "epic loot". Not that I am saying GW2 is a bad, but the game is lacking that feeling. I never thought I would say it, but some elements from other mmorpgs should be implanted into this game, to make it longlivity. Let the flame begin!
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    I hit the "no more skills" wall at level 40. I couldn't imagine going another 40 levels doing the exact samething. 

    yeah i wish we had more skills, and at least 2 or 3 more skill slots (not skill bars, only 2 or 3 more buttons to add weapon skills to map with mouse or other keys)

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  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Terranah

    I have a hard time relating to the OP.  His goals are not mine at all.  I don't have this desire to 'prove myself' in a game, to myself or anyone else. Maybe this is a product of being in my 40's now, as when I was in my 20's to early 30's I was more concerned with the pecking order.

     

    I am more interested in seeing the game develop and grow as opposed to my own 'power'.  Grow the crafting, add some complexity and uniqueness to it, add more professions, bring some humor to the game, add housing, add mounts, add new places, create new stories, add new races.  I'm interested to see my characters place within the world grow, but I'm not putting little notches on my bow to keep track of my kills: that seems inconsequential.

     

    Looking at how I've played mmo's as opposed to fps, it's been more about how I fit in the world and community not how leet I was.  I want to find a place to fit in, not stand out.  I realize I may be 'different' though.

    I feel the same way. I also am in my 40s, but I have felt this way for many years when it comes to MMOs. I like to have my place as a character. I like to feel important and that my actions change the world and story around me. When I play GW2 I enjoy COMPLETELY the storys around me. It does not bother me that the gear is not as leet as in say WoW. WoW gear gets laughable at the stats and the imbalance betweeen certain levels. When I play I want to feel good with my kills because I have mastered my SKILLS not for wearing over powered gear.

     

    As GW2 progresses I would love to see more focus on story and content rather than following the "look at my awesome over powered gear" approach of most MMOs. I would love to see dynamic events get more dynamic, the world permanantly change from my efforts, and dynamic environments that change as time progresses in game would be on the top of my list. 

     

    Once I get into GW2's PvP more I am sure I will have thoughts there, but seeing I have not focused on the PvP side much I will reserve comments. All in all I am not unhappy with much in Anet's GW2. The most fun I have had in an MMO in a long long time!

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  • shingoukiehshingoukieh Fayetteville, NCPosts: 125Member
    I know this might be irrelevant but what about MOUNTS? Mounts usually are in every mmorpg...they could even make u have new skills while mounted...I mean I'm sure a lot of people would want to get one
  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member

    I can't say I disagree there.  I love GW2, as anyone on this site who's had any dealing with me can attest.  However, the lack of Elite Skills, and the quest to get them, is the single biggest flaw in the game for me.

     

    I loved not only using the skills when I got them, but hunting for them in GW1.  I really wish they would bring that back.  While I don't mind the "dumbing down" of the skill set for GW2, I think having the extra Elites for each profession to hunt down and aquire would satisfy most of that quest for power you were talking about.

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    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

    Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon

    Dispite the number of elites after 3 campaigns, each profession only had a couple of useful elites.

    Some of them only acquired realy late in the game.

    Only after many updates, nerfs, buffs and changes did you get some variety.

     

    I don't mind more skills (and traits) but I get the impression many of these players complaining about the lack of skills are also the same that use the same build all the time and are more obsessed with numbers (stats, number of skills) than actually trying different builds and playstyles.

    Especially those that hit level 30 or 40 and say they get nothing else considering there are still many things to choose from and acquire - GM traits. runes, sigils. food you using.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • TekaelonTekaelon Brookhaven, MSPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    I am not a fan of FoTM. I don't like gated content nor do I care for a singular path to acquiring gear. I hope this is not the future of Tyria.
  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Any kind of progression would have been good for end game. Gear not being the only thing but like Bill said skills, hundreds of skills to choose from to define your character. Right now its just plain bland and I can't even log in anymore, I look at the Gw2 icon on my desktop and just get a sinking feeling in my stomach lol.
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    I completely agree, but I am a bit torn on the subject. You see there is a reason Anet didn't include tons of skills and allow you to freely pick between them and have a secondary class like in GW1. It's because of the pvp. Therein lies the problem, you either balance for pvp and create shallower "progression" or have a hard as heck time balancing pvp and provide good horizontal progression.

     

    I always felt GW1 was a pvp game first and foremost. That's why I didn't really care too much about pve in it after I finished the story line, besides the pvp in GW1 was pretty damn good and the pve was just ok. But when I saw their approach for skills in GW2 I was SO HAPPY that they were thinking about balance. Until I played the game and figured out that the pve in it is also super fun, but because of that design decision it is also extremely limited in progression. I could see a skill system like the one in GW1 flourish in the game that is GW2, but I would hate to see it affect pvp the way it would.

    I'll admit my question is probably naive.  But why do you have to balance PVP?  Shouldn't it be the strongers (or best build) survives?  I can imagine today the 'best' builds would be posted to the Internet, but in the end wouldn't it come down to player experience (who could best play the class)?  

    I dont know.  Someone who can throw fireballs should have an easier time against a guy trying to close in with a sword.  It would be up to the sword-wielder to develop a strategy to win.

    Then again I don't PVP so maybe my point is moot... 

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