I think the OP was just trying to take advantage of a system that is in most MMOs, but sadly absent from GW2. I mean, the usual economic system is that you use the AH for convenience and actual inter-character trading when you want the good deals. In other MMOs I would always put the stuff I wanted to sell on the auction house because I just wanted to post it and forget. I didn't want to spend hours spamming offers or browsing chats for buyers just to make a better profit, I usually had better shit to do.
Guild Wars 2 should offer that same choice. The OP took the time to look for and find a better deal than what the TP was offering (although it wasn't authentic), if the game actually supported a trading system where two windows opened up, he put in the gold, the other guy put in the ectos, and both players clicked confirm, then the OP should've gotten it. That's the way the game should be, not risk for reward, but more time and commitment for better profit.
That being said, the OP is still at fault for sending in the entirety of his gold in the mail to a complete stranger and hoping the guy has integrity. I won't call him an idiot for it, it can happen to anyone, even happened to me once. It's just a lesson everyone learns sooner or later.
I disagree with the second paragraph. I don't think GW2 should have both systems, and I think the current system is superior. The OP did not "take the time" to look for and find a better deal, they got caught up in a scam performed by multiple players pretending to be trading stuff, so that they could scam them out of all their gold. The TP is far superior, direct player to player transactions are only needed for scam artists.
Why not? What would it hurt?
You should probably try to read to the end of the paragraph. Direct player to player transactions are only needed for scam artists. The TP provides a safe way of selling and purchasing goods. Trustworthy people can trade within the mail system because they are honest. The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are scam artists.
And if you think that having an option for direct player to player trading would stops scams, you are horrendously mistaken.
7 years of mmorpg player to player trading, and I've never been scammed. , [lock], [confirm], you can't be scammed. Isn't player interaction a good thing. Isn't that one of the top 10 complaints about gw2?
What I'm saying is, more options to interact is a good thing. Why all the sudden direct player interaction, and scam artists be paired? Is it because direct player trade is not offered in gw2? I know you love the game, but having more options can't possible take away from the experience, and be a bad thing.
Having a window is the best suggestion that's came out of this thread.
because GW had a direct player to player trade window and people were scammed all the time. They put warnings up to help people learn how to not be scammed from people trading items directly because some people are niave, and those people needed a big sign saying "be careful, because there are bad people out there"
The TP eliminates that. Now I don't know if you're a scammer and that's why you think this is important, or if it's just that you are having difficulty getting it all straight in your head, but I'm hoping that I don't need to continue to say the exact same sentence over again
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
oh heck, one more time just in case.
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
I got a fever, and the only prescription is ...
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.
"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."
"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"
"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"
Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.
The problem is you are not understanding a thing.
In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.
It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.
However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?
In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.
But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?
Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.
If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.
Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.
LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.
And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?
I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?
That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.
Just using his example of the woman, who mind you has had her place of residence broken into THREE times, but at what point does personal responsibility stop coming into play? One time, yes she did leave the house open yet it should be enough for her to learn better. It happens a second time thanks to the same reason? It's negligent of her now. Three times all because she doesn't feel like going through the extra bit of work to lock her house up? Gross negligence on her part. At some point personal responsibility must come into play, specially when she has prior knowledge that this results in a bad outcome.
Think of it like this. I hold out a red and blue stick, both do the same thing (whatever it might be). I then inform them that the red stick isn't safe to touch though because it has a short, or some other reason that will more than likely hurt them. They grab it once. They go ow, give it back to me. Then they grab it again, and again.
Instead of actually reading the posts at hand, you absent-mindedly jump to white-knight the OP while completely ignoring the fact that not a single person here is advocating that the alleged scammer shouldn't be punished. So instead of just jumping on someone with some baseless, inane accusation and assumptions, try bothering to really read the posts.
I think the OP was just trying to take advantage of a system that is in most MMOs, but sadly absent from GW2. I mean, the usual economic system is that you use the AH for convenience and actual inter-character trading when you want the good deals. In other MMOs I would always put the stuff I wanted to sell on the auction house because I just wanted to post it and forget. I didn't want to spend hours spamming offers or browsing chats for buyers just to make a better profit, I usually had better shit to do.
Guild Wars 2 should offer that same choice. The OP took the time to look for and find a better deal than what the TP was offering (although it wasn't authentic), if the game actually supported a trading system where two windows opened up, he put in the gold, the other guy put in the ectos, and both players clicked confirm, then the OP should've gotten it. That's the way the game should be, not risk for reward, but more time and commitment for better profit.
That being said, the OP is still at fault for sending in the entirety of his gold in the mail to a complete stranger and hoping the guy has integrity. I won't call him an idiot for it, it can happen to anyone, even happened to me once. It's just a lesson everyone learns sooner or later.
I disagree with the second paragraph. I don't think GW2 should have both systems, and I think the current system is superior. The OP did not "take the time" to look for and find a better deal, they got caught up in a scam performed by multiple players pretending to be trading stuff, so that they could scam them out of all their gold. The TP is far superior, direct player to player transactions are only needed for scam artists.
Why not? What would it hurt?
You should probably try to read to the end of the paragraph. Direct player to player transactions are only needed for scam artists. The TP provides a safe way of selling and purchasing goods. Trustworthy people can trade within the mail system because they are honest. The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are scam artists.
And if you think that having an option for direct player to player trading would stops scams, you are horrendously mistaken.
7 years of mmorpg player to player trading, and I've never been scammed. , [lock], [confirm], you can't be scammed. Isn't player interaction a good thing. Isn't that one of the top 10 complaints about gw2?
What I'm saying is, more options to interact is a good thing. Why all the sudden direct player interaction, and scam artists be paired? Is it because direct player trade is not offered in gw2? I know you love the game, but having more options can't possible take away from the experience, and be a bad thing.
Having a window is the best suggestion that's came out of this thread.
because GW had a direct player to player trade window and people were scammed all the time. They put warnings up to help people learn how to not be scammed from people trading items directly because some people are niave, and those people needed a big sign saying "be careful, because there are bad people out there"
The TP eliminates that. Now I don't know if you're a scammer and that's why you think this is important, or if it's just that you are having difficulty getting it all straight in your head, but I'm hoping that I don't need to continue to say the exact same sentence over again
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
oh heck, one more time just in case.
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
I got a fever, and the only prescription is ...
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
You honestly believe this don't you? Player to Player trading where you can see the item you are buying in the menu highlight it and check it is safe, now if it was like GW2 current system where one person has to go first yes I would agree, but its not. You just blindly defend ArenaNet on this, the TP is a gold sink that they made and they want it to stay that way, its not about protecting the players its about making sure when you farm 50g you really only farmed 35g.
Explain to me in detial, how with player to player trading system like WoW I can be scammed? (Assuming I look at the items)
On top of that why no CoD that is full proof aswell with no gold sink, I put in the item it sends it to my mail box if it is the item I wanted I take it out of the mailbox and it automatically removes the gold, simple scam proof.
You honestly believe this don't you? Player to Player trading where you can see the item you are buying in the menu highlight it and check it is safe, now if it was like GW2 current system where one person has to go first yes I would agree, but its not. You just blindly defend ArenaNet on this, the TP is a gold sink that they made and they want it to stay that way, its not about protecting the players its about making sure when you farm 50g you really only farmed 35g.
Explain to me in detial, how with player to player trading system like WoW I can be scammed? (Assuming I look at the items)
On top of that why no CoD that is full proof aswell with no gold sink, I put in the item it sends it to my mail box if it is the item I wanted I take it out of the mailbox and it automatically removes the gold, simple scam proof.
Hold on there, lets NOT ASSUME.
We've already proven that people can be niave, or did you completely miss that? Oh and who is in denial?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.
"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."
"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"
"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"
Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.
The problem is you are not understanding a thing.
In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.
It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.
However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?
In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.
But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?
Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.
If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.
Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.
LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.
And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?
I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?
That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.
.... Nobody here thinks the person who did the scamming shouldn't be punished. In fact, we don't even know if the other person WAS punished. It could very well be that Anet banned them or suspended them without advertising it to the world. The only thing Anet told the OP was that they basically couldn't force the other party to hand over what they owe the OP.
We all agree that the scammer should be punished. We are also saying that the OP is also somewhat at fault for negligence on his/her part. The OP knew s/he was playing in a video game that lacks player-to-player interaction AND that lacks COD in mail. OP should have been more cautious about trading with another player s/he had never met before. And the OP knew that the TP was the only actual safe way of trading with other players.
The OP should have never sent the full amount right away for the item, especially to some stranger. I thought the general rule of thumb for such trades is you send a fraction of the amount, and then deliver the rest when the other person delivers the item.
You honestly believe this don't you? Player to Player trading where you can see the item you are buying in the menu highlight it and check it is safe, now if it was like GW2 current system where one person has to go first yes I would agree, but its not. You just blindly defend ArenaNet on this, the TP is a gold sink that they made and they want it to stay that way, its not about protecting the players its about making sure when you farm 50g you really only farmed 35g.
Explain to me in detial, how with player to player trading system like WoW I can be scammed? (Assuming I look at the items)
On top of that why no CoD that is full proof aswell with no gold sink, I put in the item it sends it to my mail box if it is the item I wanted I take it out of the mailbox and it automatically removes the gold, simple scam proof.
Hold on there, lets NOT ASSUME.
We've already proven that people can be niave, or did you completely miss that? Oh and who is in denial?
You are buddy, for thinking that player-to-player trading is only used as a tool for scamming other players. Some person being niave has nothing to do with it, as that is a facet in just about every system imaginable. Sure you have players who don't check the items before agreeing to a Player-to-Player trade.
Just like you have players who don't check the prices on an item they find, and sell it for well above or below its actual price. Or players who don't listen to common sense among other things when dealing with situations. Naivity has no bearing in this at all, as it affects everything, not just Player trading.
I understand that this experience may completely ruin one's experience in a game. It's my honest belief that ANET should be ashamed if they investigated and then gave that response; most other games will see it and take the appropriate measures. Then again, there isn't an official trade option in GW2, and the trade post is there for a reason. With that, and the amount of people who fall for tricks, it may not be feasible to do so with the the resources they currently have at their disposal. Personally I'd quit the game until the next expansion if this happened to me, so good for you if you get back up and keep going despite this dishonest setback.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
You honestly believe this don't you? Player to Player trading where you can see the item you are buying in the menu highlight it and check it is safe, now if it was like GW2 current system where one person has to go first yes I would agree, but its not. You just blindly defend ArenaNet on this, the TP is a gold sink that they made and they want it to stay that way, its not about protecting the players its about making sure when you farm 50g you really only farmed 35g.
Explain to me in detial, how with player to player trading system like WoW I can be scammed? (Assuming I look at the items)
On top of that why no CoD that is full proof aswell with no gold sink, I put in the item it sends it to my mail box if it is the item I wanted I take it out of the mailbox and it automatically removes the gold, simple scam proof.
Hold on there, lets NOT ASSUME.
We've already proven that people can be niave, or did you completely miss that? Oh and who is in denial?
Naive yes, but Face to Face trading has been in almost every big MMO sense the dawn of MMOs and most don't have horriable scamming problems I actually see more scamming threads about GW2 then I do any other game, except FFXI.
They have one really safe costly method of buying/selling and then they have one method that is completely unsafe and retarded.
I'm sorry nothing you can say will make the fact that they have to face to face trading in this game, its safe with the correct menu system. People don't want to pay the 15% gold tax its stupid I should not have to, its very unrealistic on top of everything else.
Jim says "I have this really nice axe do you want to buy it for 5g?"
Sara says "I would love to."
Jim says "I don't want to go first I don't know you."
Sara says "I don't want to go first either I don't know you."
Jim says "Well it is completely impossiable to do it at the same time becaus the world we live in don't allow it."
Sara says "Well that sucks I guess I'll go pay 10g for it on the Black Lion Company, because it is the only safe way to do trade in this world."
Jim says "Bye!"
Sara says "Bye!"
I could just as easly click a picture on the TP that looked like the item I wanted to buy but it wasent should I get a refund from the seller?
You honestly believe this don't you? Player to Player trading where you can see the item you are buying in the menu highlight it and check it is safe, now if it was like GW2 current system where one person has to go first yes I would agree, but its not. You just blindly defend ArenaNet on this, the TP is a gold sink that they made and they want it to stay that way, its not about protecting the players its about making sure when you farm 50g you really only farmed 35g.
Explain to me in detial, how with player to player trading system like WoW I can be scammed? (Assuming I look at the items)
On top of that why no CoD that is full proof aswell with no gold sink, I put in the item it sends it to my mail box if it is the item I wanted I take it out of the mailbox and it automatically removes the gold, simple scam proof.
Hold on there, lets NOT ASSUME.
We've already proven that people can be niave, or did you completely miss that? Oh and who is in denial?
Naive yes, but Face to Face trading has been in almost every big MMO sense the dawn of MMOs and most don't have horriable scamming problems I actually see more scamming threads about GW2 then I do any other game, except FFXI.
They have one really safe costly method of buying/selling and then they have one method that is completely unsafe and retarded.
I'm sorry nothing you can say will make the fact that they have to face to face trading in this game, its safe with the correct menu system. People don't want to pay the 15% gold tax its stupid I should not have to, its very unrealistic on top of everything else.
Jim says "I have this really nice axe do you want to buy it for 5g?"
Sara says "I would love to."
Jim says "I don't want to go first I don't know you."
Sara says "I don't want to go first either I don't know you."
Jim says "Well it is completely impossiable to do it at the same time becaus the world we live in don't allow it."
Sara says "Well that sucks I guess I'll go pay 10g for it on the Black Lion Company, because it is the only safe way to do trade in this world."
Jim says "Bye!"
Sara says "Bye!"
I could just as easly click a picture on the TP that looked like the item I wanted to buy but it wasent should I get a refund from the seller?
And Jim gets promoted to the dumbest idiot on the planet, because he could sell on the TP for a profit of 8.5 gold or did Sara just dodge getting scammed?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I understand that this experience may completely ruin one's experience in a game. It's my honest belief that ANET should be ashamed if they investigated and then gave that response; most other games will see it and take the appropriate measures. Then again, there isn't an official trade option in GW2, and the trade post is there for a reason. With that, and the amount of people who fall for tricks, it may not be feasible to do so with the the resources they currently have at their disposal. Personally I'd quit the game until the next expansion if this happened to me, so good for you if you get back up and keep going despite this dishonest setback.
Bingo, and therein lies the real problem. They got the OP's money (and yours) and until the next expansion comes out, you really are just a drain on resources which they will try to minimize.
The correct response if this angers you is to never buy the next expansion, but they know most players will forget and buy it anyways.
Face it, no subs means you're going to get weaker customer support than a game that has one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I understand that this experience may completely ruin one's experience in a game. It's my honest belief that ANET should be ashamed if they investigated and then gave that response; most other games will see it and take the appropriate measures. Then again, there isn't an official trade option in GW2, and the trade post is there for a reason. With that, and the amount of people who fall for tricks, it may not be feasible to do so with the the resources they currently have at their disposal. Personally I'd quit the game until the next expansion if this happened to me, so good for you if you get back up and keep going despite this dishonest setback.
Bingo, and therein lies the real problem. They got the OP's money (and yours) and until the next expansion comes out, you really are just a drain on resources which they will try to minimize.
The correct response if this angers you is to never buy the next expansion, but they know most players will forget and buy it anyways.
Face it, no subs means you're going to get weaker customer support than a game that has one.
You really do get what you pay for.
I really wish people would actually read what they say. "They don't care about me because I gave them money, but if I was giving them more money, THAN I would get the respect I deserve!!!!"
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Ehh... that sucks. They don't have a COD option and so stuff like this happens if you trust other people.
What is the character's id?
Yeah I think they should have a personal trade or COD option, however they have the Trade Post for this, and if the person was willing to sell you for less than the going rate, alarm bells should have been ringing already.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
I always "appreciate" much people who stand that crime is victim's own fault. It's not even in game but same in real life too. I guess all guys who posted negative reply here, thinking: if he abused of her, it sure was her own fault, she should not be such (choose you version) pretty, sexy, fun, nice etc. If someone got wallet stolen, it his fault too, should take more care of it.
Is it your philosophy, guys? Sorry I am very disappointed here...
About what happened to OP. First of all I'm deeply sorry that your trust got abused, but it can happen and more in virtual space (please don't forget either, that not all players come to game for fun, some guys are prof scammers and acting for real money traders, others are irresponsible kids or bad person who think thy can take advantages over a lie). So be careful and don't trust more then you are ready to loose.
I guess ANet could take some friendly actions, like Blizzard does, and roll back this trade, but they are too busy to count Item Shop gold, I guess. IMO, soon they will stop even answer (I can give a list of games where it came this way).
IMO, fact they made TP not gives them excuses to not make normal trade window with double check, like any decent MMO uses. So I bet it their fault not to bring extra security to players (or why others try to make trade maximum secure and keep send you check warning).
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
For every action/inaction there is a consequence. People that do not exercise good judgement, aren't being responsible for their actions.
That doesn't justify the actions of the scam artist in the least.
But it also doesn't excuse the lack of good judgement on the part of the scammed.
That may be difficult for some in the modern world to understand, and accept, but its the way the world works.
i was scamed 1 time in BC WoW , and blizzard made nothing, after that never tried any business without AHouse, bad people is everywhere and in this game , holy jesus,
Another example, yesterday those germans from dzagonur big zerged us from behind, when a battle for a small tower between UW and Far shiverpeaks was quite the same numbers, so its only a game but a lesson either, bad people is always bad people, no matter what!
Dzagonur only wins between 2:00 o'clock and 9:00 , at normal time and with the same numbers they are always loosing, so bad guys don't win all the time.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
[mod edit]
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.
And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?
I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?
That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.
How about this, when someone is wronged then I blame the criminal. When somene is wronged because of bad decisions on their part, then I blame the criminal and I then call negligence on the victim.
You think a family who leaves their kids with known, violent crack heads isn't going to be questioned by the judge when something horrible happens?
Shame on me? Well, I suppose that's what you would say when you think people can act however they want and never take responsibility for their actions.
I find this responce to be very funny after reading your other posts in this topic. Its funny because your refering to the victim here and not the crimial. Proving my point.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
[mod edit]
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
naive people make me sick. i mean it. the world isnt a bad place because of bad people, but because of naive people that fall for bad people. its far easier to handle bad people than naive people.
Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.
"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."
"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"
"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"
Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.
The problem is you are not understanding a thing.
In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.
It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.
However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?
In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.
But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?
Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.
If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.
Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.
LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.
And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?
I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?
That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.
Just using his example of the woman, who mind you has had her place of residence broken into THREE times, but at what point does personal responsibility stop coming into play? One time, yes she did leave the house open yet it should be enough for her to learn better. It happens a second time thanks to the same reason? It's negligent of her now. Three times all because she doesn't feel like going through the extra bit of work to lock her house up? Gross negligence on her part. At some point personal responsibility must come into play, specially when she has prior knowledge that this results in a bad outcome.
Think of it like this. I hold out a red and blue stick, both do the same thing (whatever it might be). I then inform them that the red stick isn't safe to touch though because it has a short, or some other reason that will more than likely hurt them. They grab it once. They go ow, give it back to me. Then they grab it again, and again.
Instead of actually reading the posts at hand, you absent-mindedly jump to white-knight the OP while completely ignoring the fact that not a single person here is advocating that the alleged scammer shouldn't be punished. So instead of just jumping on someone with some baseless, inane accusation and assumptions, try bothering to really read the posts.
Try being rude somewhere else. Perhaps you should try reading ALL the posts in this thread before opining your mouth. Damn near everyone is addressing the "stupidity" if i may use that word, to discribe the actions of the victim and hardly anyone is acknowling the criminal. This is MY ONLY POINT! That the masses will blame the victim first before the actions of the criminal.
Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.
"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."
"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"
"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"
Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.
The problem is you are not understanding a thing.
In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.
It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.
However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?
In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.
But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?
Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.
If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.
Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.
LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.
And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?
I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?
That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.
.... Nobody here thinks the person who did the scamming shouldn't be punished. In fact, we don't even know if the other person WAS punished. It could very well be that Anet banned them or suspended them without advertising it to the world. The only thing Anet told the OP was that they basically couldn't force the other party to hand over what they owe the OP.
We all agree that the scammer should be punished. We are also saying that the OP is also somewhat at fault for negligence on his/her part. The OP knew s/he was playing in a video game that lacks player-to-player interaction AND that lacks COD in mail. OP should have been more cautious about trading with another player s/he had never met before. And the OP knew that the TP was the only actual safe way of trading with other players.
The OP should have never sent the full amount right away for the item, especially to some stranger. I thought the general rule of thumb for such trades is you send a fraction of the amount, and then deliver the rest when the other person delivers the item.
No where did i say that the victim shouldnt encur some responsibility in the part they may or may not have played in said inncident, im saying that we as a whole seem to WANT to blame the victim more so then the crimial. And its evident through out this thread.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
[mod edit]
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.
Comments
because GW had a direct player to player trade window and people were scammed all the time. They put warnings up to help people learn how to not be scammed from people trading items directly because some people are niave, and those people needed a big sign saying "be careful, because there are bad people out there"
The TP eliminates that. Now I don't know if you're a scammer and that's why you think this is important, or if it's just that you are having difficulty getting it all straight in your head, but I'm hoping that I don't need to continue to say the exact same sentence over again
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
oh heck, one more time just in case.
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
I got a fever, and the only prescription is ...
The only people that NEED direct player to player transactions are the scammers.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Just using his example of the woman, who mind you has had her place of residence broken into THREE times, but at what point does personal responsibility stop coming into play? One time, yes she did leave the house open yet it should be enough for her to learn better. It happens a second time thanks to the same reason? It's negligent of her now. Three times all because she doesn't feel like going through the extra bit of work to lock her house up? Gross negligence on her part. At some point personal responsibility must come into play, specially when she has prior knowledge that this results in a bad outcome.
Think of it like this. I hold out a red and blue stick, both do the same thing (whatever it might be). I then inform them that the red stick isn't safe to touch though because it has a short, or some other reason that will more than likely hurt them. They grab it once. They go ow, give it back to me. Then they grab it again, and again.
Instead of actually reading the posts at hand, you absent-mindedly jump to white-knight the OP while completely ignoring the fact that not a single person here is advocating that the alleged scammer shouldn't be punished. So instead of just jumping on someone with some baseless, inane accusation and assumptions, try bothering to really read the posts.
You honestly believe this don't you? Player to Player trading where you can see the item you are buying in the menu highlight it and check it is safe, now if it was like GW2 current system where one person has to go first yes I would agree, but its not. You just blindly defend ArenaNet on this, the TP is a gold sink that they made and they want it to stay that way, its not about protecting the players its about making sure when you farm 50g you really only farmed 35g.
Explain to me in detial, how with player to player trading system like WoW I can be scammed? (Assuming I look at the items)
On top of that why no CoD that is full proof aswell with no gold sink, I put in the item it sends it to my mail box if it is the item I wanted I take it out of the mailbox and it automatically removes the gold, simple scam proof.
[mod edit]Hold on there, lets NOT ASSUME.
We've already proven that people can be niave, or did you completely miss that? Oh and who is in denial?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
.... Nobody here thinks the person who did the scamming shouldn't be punished. In fact, we don't even know if the other person WAS punished. It could very well be that Anet banned them or suspended them without advertising it to the world. The only thing Anet told the OP was that they basically couldn't force the other party to hand over what they owe the OP.
We all agree that the scammer should be punished. We are also saying that the OP is also somewhat at fault for negligence on his/her part. The OP knew s/he was playing in a video game that lacks player-to-player interaction AND that lacks COD in mail. OP should have been more cautious about trading with another player s/he had never met before. And the OP knew that the TP was the only actual safe way of trading with other players.
The OP should have never sent the full amount right away for the item, especially to some stranger. I thought the general rule of thumb for such trades is you send a fraction of the amount, and then deliver the rest when the other person delivers the item.
You are buddy, for thinking that player-to-player trading is only used as a tool for scamming other players. Some person being niave has nothing to do with it, as that is a facet in just about every system imaginable. Sure you have players who don't check the items before agreeing to a Player-to-Player trade.
Just like you have players who don't check the prices on an item they find, and sell it for well above or below its actual price. Or players who don't listen to common sense among other things when dealing with situations. Naivity has no bearing in this at all, as it affects everything, not just Player trading.
I understand that this experience may completely ruin one's experience in a game. It's my honest belief that ANET should be ashamed if they investigated and then gave that response; most other games will see it and take the appropriate measures. Then again, there isn't an official trade option in GW2, and the trade post is there for a reason. With that, and the amount of people who fall for tricks, it may not be feasible to do so with the the resources they currently have at their disposal. Personally I'd quit the game until the next expansion if this happened to me, so good for you if you get back up and keep going despite this dishonest setback.
Naive yes, but Face to Face trading has been in almost every big MMO sense the dawn of MMOs and most don't have horriable scamming problems I actually see more scamming threads about GW2 then I do any other game, except FFXI.
They have one really safe costly method of buying/selling and then they have one method that is completely unsafe and retarded.
I'm sorry nothing you can say will make the fact that they have to face to face trading in this game, its safe with the correct menu system. People don't want to pay the 15% gold tax its stupid I should not have to, its very unrealistic on top of everything else.
Jim says "I have this really nice axe do you want to buy it for 5g?"
Sara says "I would love to."
Jim says "I don't want to go first I don't know you."
Sara says "I don't want to go first either I don't know you."
Jim says "Well it is completely impossiable to do it at the same time becaus the world we live in don't allow it."
Sara says "Well that sucks I guess I'll go pay 10g for it on the Black Lion Company, because it is the only safe way to do trade in this world."
Jim says "Bye!"
Sara says "Bye!"
I could just as easly click a picture on the TP that looked like the item I wanted to buy but it wasent should I get a refund from the seller?
And Jim gets promoted to the dumbest idiot on the planet, because he could sell on the TP for a profit of 8.5 gold or did Sara just dodge getting scammed?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Bingo, and therein lies the real problem. They got the OP's money (and yours) and until the next expansion comes out, you really are just a drain on resources which they will try to minimize.
The correct response if this angers you is to never buy the next expansion, but they know most players will forget and buy it anyways.
Face it, no subs means you're going to get weaker customer support than a game that has one.
You really do get what you pay for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really wish people would actually read what they say. "They don't care about me because I gave them money, but if I was giving them more money, THAN I would get the respect I deserve!!!!"
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Yeah I think they should have a personal trade or COD option, however they have the Trade Post for this, and if the person was willing to sell you for less than the going rate, alarm bells should have been ringing already.
Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you.
First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.
Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.
Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers.
I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.
IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.
----
I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!!
I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters.
And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading.
TL;DR:
OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.
Scamming is in general bad.
Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.
I always "appreciate" much people who stand that crime is victim's own fault.
It's not even in game but same in real life too.
I guess all guys who posted negative reply here, thinking: if he abused of her, it sure was her own fault, she should not be such (choose you version) pretty, sexy, fun, nice etc.
If someone got wallet stolen, it his fault too, should take more care of it.
Is it your philosophy, guys? Sorry I am very disappointed here...
About what happened to OP.
First of all I'm deeply sorry that your trust got abused, but it can happen and more in virtual space (please don't forget either, that not all players come to game for fun, some guys are prof scammers and acting for real money traders, others are irresponsible kids or bad person who think thy can take advantages over a lie).
So be careful and don't trust more then you are ready to loose.
I guess ANet could take some friendly actions, like Blizzard does, and roll back this trade, but they are too busy to count Item Shop gold, I guess. IMO, soon they will stop even answer (I can give a list of games where it came this way).
IMO, fact they made TP not gives them excuses to not make normal trade window with double check, like any decent MMO uses.
So I bet it their fault not to bring extra security to players (or why others try to make trade maximum secure and keep send you check warning).
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.
That's life, get used to it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Exactly. I do not think any other company would react differently. Bad people happen but one must take care of himself-
BTW, agree on SWTOR. :-))
For every action/inaction there is a consequence. People that do not exercise good judgement, aren't being responsible for their actions.
That doesn't justify the actions of the scam artist in the least.
But it also doesn't excuse the lack of good judgement on the part of the scammed.
That may be difficult for some in the modern world to understand, and accept, but its the way the world works.
i was scamed 1 time in BC WoW , and blizzard made nothing, after that never tried any business without AHouse, bad people is everywhere and in this game , holy jesus,
Another example, yesterday those germans from dzagonur big zerged us from behind, when a battle for a small tower between UW and Far shiverpeaks was quite the same numbers, so its only a game but a lesson either, bad people is always bad people, no matter what!
Dzagonur only wins between 2:00 o'clock and 9:00 , at normal time and with the same numbers they are always loosing, so bad guys don't win all the time.
The blame should go only on the perpetrator.
But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim. That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.
If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.
But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.
With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.
Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case. Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.
As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.
And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.
A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.I find this responce to be very funny after reading your other posts in this topic. Its funny because your refering to the victim here and not the crimial. Proving my point.
Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions. No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that.
A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand. We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.
The player in question should have known better. But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist. Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.
Try being rude somewhere else. Perhaps you should try reading ALL the posts in this thread before opining your mouth. Damn near everyone is addressing the "stupidity" if i may use that word, to discribe the actions of the victim and hardly anyone is acknowling the criminal. This is MY ONLY POINT! That the masses will blame the victim first before the actions of the criminal.
No where did i say that the victim shouldnt encur some responsibility in the part they may or may not have played in said inncident, im saying that we as a whole seem to WANT to blame the victim more so then the crimial. And its evident through out this thread.
And why is that?
Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.
Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.
As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.
By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of scaming as "normal" practice.
Could she have done something different? Yes.
Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.
Should we focus on her actions? NO.
We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.
What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.
Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.
But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.
Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.
Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.