I think in the endless definitions of sandbox it's worth discussing this a bit more. One approach you take is to simply name-drop commonly accepted sandbox features and list them per mmorpg to gain a sense of it's "sandboxness".
1. List The Sandbox Features (level of sandboxness)
2. High Level Defintion: How well do all the above features work towards these high-level themes: Eg: From a reputable/authorative source:
"['Sandbox'] is really hard to define, because it's so ingrained in what we do, that we know what it is, but it's hard to put into words," he tells Gamasutra.
But he offers up a pretty good definition anyhow. "Basically it's three things: being social, goal-driven and emergent -- making a game open, giving players control, essentially, and if you're making a multiplayer game, making it as social as possible, because that's why they're playing the game in the first place."
Or Ryan Dancey (CEO, Goblin Works): QUOTE-UNQUOTE:
"Sandbox is predominantly Player-Player Interactions whereas Theme Park is predominantly playing against the computer."
3. How Integrated the systems of the game are with each other eg PvP, PvE, Open-World Interactions and various major subsets of mmorpgs to create more simulation of the virtual world (leads to emergence for players). In terms of representing this: This old thread is very good:
Eg: EvE has a Super-set of Open-World interactions with integrated systems of pvp+pve
===
So looking at eg 1. : ; possibly the more of these the more types of features the more types of different player types (bartle) that might be attracted to the mmorpg? Or what social features it encourages -> 2. etc...
===
A lot of these mmorpgs going for "Hybrid" is questionable how much of a sandbox it will be. So on a sliding scale on th lower end or actually sandbox + some themepark features or vica-versa... Think this needs a lot more clarity from these upcoming mmorpgs.
I think in the endless definitions of sandbox it's worth discussing this a bit more. One approach you take is to simply name-drop commonly accepted sandbox features and list them per mmorpg to gain a sense of it's "sandboxness".
1. List The Sandbox Features (level of sandboxness)
2. High Level Defintion: How well do all the above features work towards these high-level themes: Eg: From a reputable/authorative source:
"['Sandbox'] is really hard to define, because it's so ingrained in what we do, that we know what it is, but it's hard to put into words," he tells Gamasutra.
But he offers up a pretty good definition anyhow. "Basically it's three things: being social, goal-driven and emergent -- making a game open, giving players control, essentially, and if you're making a multiplayer game, making it as social as possible, because that's why they're playing the game in the first place."
Or Ryan Dancey (CEO, Goblin Works): QUOTE-UNQUOTE:
"Sandbox is predominantly Player-Player Interactions whereas Theme Park is predominantly playing against the computer."
3. How Integrated the systems of the game are with each other eg PvP, PvE, Open-World Interactions and various major subsets of mmorpgs to create more simulation of the virtual world (leads to emergence for players). In terms of representing this: This old thread is very good:
Eg: EvE has a Super-set of Open-World interactions with integrated systems of pvp+pve
===
So looking at eg 1. : ; possibly the more of these the more types of features the more types of different player types (bartle) that might be attracted to the mmorpg? Or what social features it encourages -> 2. etc...
===
A lot of these mmorpgs going for "Hybrid" is questionable how much of a sandbox it will be. So on a sliding scale on th lower end or actually sandbox + some themepark features or vica-versa... Think this needs a lot more clarity from these upcoming mmorpgs.
Once again, thanks for the vid.
Great post there mate. After doing the video I realised I could have probably been a little more carefull in the definitions department. Enough so actually that I want to do a video a later on. on just that. Defining a sandbox. Your post here serves as great fuel in that regard.
I actually remember reading that first one on gamasutra some time ago
I have read some info on Pathfinder Online and it seems that it goes beta in 2014 and live in 2016 if it doesn't get aborted like so many other MMORPGs.
So for me it's between Black Deserts and ArcheAge now and ArcheAge probably gets released first in the west since so little information is coming about Black Deserts so I guess that I have my hybrid themepark / sandbox MMORPG for 2013 which is great but sad that Pathfinder Online is so far into the future.
Pathfinder's release dates are largely dependant on whether they reach their current kickstarter goal or not. But yes, not in 2013 for sure.
If its a hybrid your looking for then you are probably right in your choices there
I just did a video showing a taste of 14 Sandbox MMO's that is comming out in 2013 and later, tought for those of you that are sandbox fans this could be usefull
ArcheAge is a hybrid MMO it's themepark and some features you would find in a sandbox.
On top of that you left out Age Of Wushu.
We won't see ArcheAge in the west until 2014 at earliest the first version outside Asia will be Russia.
Hm, I gota admit I never really paied close attention to Wushu, so I was not aware it was a sandbox. Thanks for the feedback, I've allready gotten enough info's from this thread and the comments, to half fill another video on the same subject Keep em comming.
Thats because Age of Wushu isnt a sandbox and wasnt ever advertised as such before shipping here. It a generic Chinese style fantasy/historical themed MMORPG with mostly traditional MMORPG elements as they are very common in Chinese and many other Asian MMORPGs. There are many people listing features as sandbox features, throwing words at you without explaining them and calling AoW a sandbox, that have nothing neccessarily to do with sandbox, are not features at all but simple objectvies/tasks and are just a really big stretch from reality.
If you decide to take a look at it I recommend to read up how the following stuff really works, not just what you expect. I emphasize this because it was far below any of my expectations. Some technical reviews, videos or just playing it for real. I empasize to look up especially the (lack of) consequences, lasting effects, and limitations most of them have.
guildfortifications/housing, playerstalls/vendor npcs, crimerate andbeheading, policing/patroling,spying and kidnapping, territorial control (static) farming, crafting and foodsystem.
I dont want to push my opinion on you so i tried to highlight some of the most popular "features" being constantly pointed at. I recomend to look them up before accepting and reciting them as features of a sandbox or relevant features at all. It wont take long as nothing is really deep or complex by traditional sandbox standards.
At beginning for me it was kind like "well okay doesnt irk me, next feature" but when it went on with almost any point of these "sandbox feature" lists flowing around about Age of Wushu I kinda felt like there is a conspiracy going on to mock me because almost nothing that is highlighted is actually in any way special, sandboxy or even just interesting.
I just started playing it a few days ago to test out these sposed sandbox features.
Came back here to re-read your points there because while there are some interesting takes on things in the game, I would not say I found anything "sandbox" yet
I have not yet seen much of the crafting or housing system though.
Comments
I think in the endless definitions of sandbox it's worth discussing this a bit more. One approach you take is to simply name-drop commonly accepted sandbox features and list them per mmorpg to gain a sense of it's "sandboxness".
1. List The Sandbox Features (level of sandboxness)
2. High Level Defintion: How well do all the above features work towards these high-level themes: Eg: From a reputable/authorative source:
EVE Online and the meaning of 'sandbox'
Or Ryan Dancey (CEO, Goblin Works): QUOTE-UNQUOTE:
3. How Integrated the systems of the game are with each other eg PvP, PvE, Open-World Interactions and various major subsets of mmorpgs to create more simulation of the virtual world (leads to emergence for players). In terms of representing this: This old thread is very good:
MMORPG-games-in-Venn-diagrams
Eg: EvE has a Super-set of Open-World interactions with integrated systems of pvp+pve
===
So looking at eg 1. : ; possibly the more of these the more types of features the more types of different player types (bartle) that might be attracted to the mmorpg? Or what social features it encourages -> 2. etc...
===
A lot of these mmorpgs going for "Hybrid" is questionable how much of a sandbox it will be. So on a sliding scale on th lower end or actually sandbox + some themepark features or vica-versa... Think this needs a lot more clarity from these upcoming mmorpgs.
Once again, thanks for the vid.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Great post there mate. After doing the video I realised I could have probably been a little more carefull in the definitions department. Enough so actually that I want to do a video a later on. on just that. Defining a sandbox. Your post here serves as great fuel in that regard.
I actually remember reading that first one on gamasutra some time ago
Honest none-summarized friendly gameplay videos with commentary: MMO previews / Gametesting / Let's Play:
www.youtube.com/user/Obzzarver
Pathfinder's release dates are largely dependant on whether they reach their current kickstarter goal or not.
But yes, not in 2013 for sure.
If its a hybrid your looking for then you are probably right in your choices there
Honest none-summarized friendly gameplay videos with commentary: MMO previews / Gametesting / Let's Play:
www.youtube.com/user/Obzzarver
Hm, I gota check mage-online out
Had not seen that. Thanks 
Honest none-summarized friendly gameplay videos with commentary: MMO previews / Gametesting / Let's Play:
www.youtube.com/user/Obzzarver
I just started playing it a few days ago to test out these sposed sandbox features.
Came back here to re-read your points there because while there are some interesting takes on things in the game, I would not say I found anything "sandbox" yet
I have not yet seen much of the crafting or housing system though.
How far into the game are those systems hidden?
Honest none-summarized friendly gameplay videos with commentary: MMO previews / Gametesting / Let's Play:
www.youtube.com/user/Obzzarver