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If you scam you will be punished is a lie, scamming allowed in GW2

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Comments

  • MsengeMsenge baltimore, MDPosts: 90Member

    I don't understand why there is such hate for the tax the Trading Post takes from trades.  It's meant to be a money sink and these types of online economies need their money sinks.  If they had other face to face trading systems or COD systems in place instead of the TP then people would flock to use those systems unless those other systems had their own money sink aspects to them (which wouldn't be the same system used by the TP cuz how would they reliably tax traded items when no gold is exchanged?).  The TP system is a quick, easy, and fair way to effect player trade and significant money sink.  Adding in other systems would result in the developers having to make new more indepth (remember how would they tax item to item trades fairly), that ultimately allow players to game the various systems against themselves.

    Also, the face to face system wouldn't really be all that easy as it was in GW1.  Changing servers to meet with a buyer/seller is a whole lot bigger a challenge in GW2 than it was to change districts in GW1.  And remember the system we have in GW1 today is not the same system we had at the beginning of GW1.

    And lets not forget the scams involving players putting up items that have the same or very similar looking icons to the itmes the buyer actually wants but are effectively worthless.

    Lastly, having systems other than the GW2 TP, would open the door for people that try to prey on people that don't know the current market value of the item they just got.  It happened to me in GW1 when I finished my first a run of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings and I got the rare and highly valuble (at that time at least) shield. I sold it at about a 1/3rd of its current value just cuz it was a big offer and I didn't take time to think it thru.  Making players use the TP allows both parties (buyer and seller) to see what that item is currently running for so people have a much better understanding of where they stand.

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Pacific Northwest, WAPosts: 682Member
    Originally posted by nate1980

    You guys make me sick. Talk about blame the victim. So if you all walk down an alley one night after you got drunk at a bar, and get mugged, I guess the cops should just say, " it's your own fault for walking through a dark alley at night."

    Uh, YES.

    If you choose to walk down a dark alley at night with impaired senses, what do you think is going to happen? Some fairy is going to show up and give you a unicorn to ride?

    Stupidity isn't an excuse nor does it absolve you from responsibility.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,539Member Uncommon

    Normally I tend to defend the victim in situations like these, but in this case I found myself scratching my head, thinking 'why would you trade like that?'.

    Still make sure to spam his name ingame to warn everyone about him. Many will make fun of you if you do, but the person that scammed you will notice it. Even though you were naieve in my eyes, it is still a scam.

    EDIT : 'It is just a game, so stop whining' . That argument is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the activity is where you put many hours of effort in, you will notice it if you lose the result of that effort.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon

    The TP in GW2 really needs to be improved and refined. In it's current form it's equivalent to everyone placing all their items on a big table in various shaped boxes (ring, sword, armor, etc., etc.) and a description on said box with price tags stuck to them. And there is a guy from ArenaNET standing next to the table collecting taxes from people putting items on the table. If I place a item meant for a specific person on the table, what's to stop someone else who sees the nice low price and scooping it up for themselves?

    What they need to do if they are going to stick with forcing players to pay into the gold sink (taxes) is offer a safety deposit box type feature along with the table where players can tag items meant for specific players they are trying to trade with. That way people wouldn't feel the need to take chances bypassing the TP and ArenaNET still has its gold sink. It also facilitates player to player trades for those that may group together for a dungeon run and wish to buy a certain drop someone in their group obtained.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by fiontar
    Originally posted by Zoyita

    When i was in a party full of people also buying stuff, they where buying mystic coins, lodestones and some other stuff, there was 3 more people doing business. I just hope that people didnt got scammed too.

    I dont wish harm to people like bad people does. Good people wish bad things to stop happening and would try to do something about it and also excuse me but so you say smart people that will offer to sell you things knowing you dont have enough money to buy it with 20% tax plus more expensier, is win? so acting bad is good? This is not Dungeon Dungeon keeper, this is Guild Wars 2 and we should be feeling we are heroes to defeat the evil in game not wanting to be the Nightmare Court.

     

    Also just for your information in the terms of service:

    Source: http://us.ncsoft.com/en-gb/legal/user-agreements/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct.html

    ("NCSOFT") and ArenaNet, Inc. ("ArenaNet") have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.
    While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

    I live in USA, NY and robbery, scam and fraud is a crime.
    You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations.
    Even if is a virtual/digital that was mine, my effort, my time and this game is really hard to gain currency if you are a honest player like me.

     

    No matter what people say, scam is a crime, cheat is bad, to be a thief is a crime in USA In Europe and in China.

    This is why the GM was completely wrong. It's clearly stated that you can not defraud another player and fraud is definitely what occured. Of course, that doesn't mean they have to help you recover your losses, but they definitely should have banned the offending player.

    I don't really play the game any longer, so I don't really have a horse in this race, but part of the problem with this thread is that there is no evidence that the person wasn't punished they just couldn't force the player to give up the goods so to speak.  Corrective action is something to fix the situation to the satisfaction of the individual with the complaint, this is different than punative action which would be whatever action would take place as a punishment to the person doing the scamming.  While I tend to take from the response that they will do nothing whatsoever, that is a hunch, not a provable fact. So we have no factual knowledge of whether or not scamming is "allowed."

  • SerenesSerenes johnson city, TNPosts: 352Member

    Are people really still arguing the point that the OP was in the wrong?

     

    I'm sorry he was not the terms state that this should not happen and that the other player should be punished, now if he was indeed punished that would be something else, but "Such acts are matters over which we have no control of and cannot take corrective measures." would lead me to believe they just did nothing, they just steped aside allowed it and don't care, which was the OP's point I assume, which was true. You can bend the truth try to change the facts but ArenaNet did not keep their end of the terms.

     

    I think the OP did get scammed and it was 60/40 guilt, he should have been more weary of people on the internet.

    That does not change the fact that ArenaNet did allow scamming even though they said they did not.

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Serenes

    Are people really still arguing the point that the OP was in the wrong?

     

    I'm sorry he was not the terms state that this should not happen and that the other player should be punished, now if he was indeed punished that would be something else, but "Such acts are matters over which we have no control of and cannot take corrective measures." would lead me to believe they just did nothing, they just steped aside allowed it and don't care, which was the OP's point I assume, which was true. You can bend the truth try to change the facts but ArenaNet did not keep their end of the terms.

     

    I think the OP did get scammed and it was 60/40 guilt, he should have been more weary of people on the internet.

    That does not change the fact that ArenaNet did allow scamming even though they said they did not.

    A person shouldn't get flung from the vehicle in an accident, but if they decide to not wear their seatbelt and it happens, is it the car manufacturers fault?

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • SerenesSerenes johnson city, TNPosts: 352Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Originally posted by Serenes

    Are people really still arguing the point that the OP was in the wrong?

     

    I'm sorry he was not the terms state that this should not happen and that the other player should be punished, now if he was indeed punished that would be something else, but "Such acts are matters over which we have no control of and cannot take corrective measures." would lead me to believe they just did nothing, they just steped aside allowed it and don't care, which was the OP's point I assume, which was true. You can bend the truth try to change the facts but ArenaNet did not keep their end of the terms.

     

    I think the OP did get scammed and it was 60/40 guilt, he should have been more weary of people on the internet.

    That does not change the fact that ArenaNet did allow scamming even though they said they did not.

    A person shouldn't get flung from the vehicle in an accident, but if they decide to not wear their seatbelt and it happens, is it the car manufacturers fault?

    If they did not give me a seatbelt with the car, and wanted me to pay 15% more for it. Yes.

    I also don't deny that the OP should have been more careful, but if Arenanet would have provided a basic feature this would not have happened, and it would never happen again. Unless someone was just a realllllly big idiot.

     

    I also go back to the fact that ArenaNet says they do punish people for these activties but their GMs say something else I find this to be shady and bad business tactics, if you say you will do something do it...

  • PelagatoPelagato PRPosts: 643Member
    Originally posted by Zoyita

    Sad but true, as the title said. I trusted another player that where gonna sell me ectos for 50gold. 50 gold all i had, sent by mail gone forever. I had screenshots, all the conversation, everything.

    Do not trust other people in this game, he had my trust and look what he did. This Arena.net reply.

    Well it doesnt have a happy ending you guys will not believe the answer. I didnt even bother to say anything in the official forums because that would get me ban. Here is the answer: Scamming is Allowed on GW2

    Hello Zoyita,

    Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Game Support Team.

    We understand that some transactions take place in the game world often involve a certain element of trust. A player will need to place trust in another player to fulfill his or her end of an agreement. Occasionally a player will go back on an agreement or act in a less-than-honest manner. Such acts are matters over which we have no control of and cannot take corrective measures. If a player does not live up to his or her end of an agreement we are unable to force that player to do so.

    If you have additional questions please let us know.

    Regards,
    GM Sparse
    Guild Wars Support Team

    ----
    I played other games where scammers where punished, i guess not this one. I already have 30G back from the 50G i lost but is sad that someone can be a villain and GW2 wont make justice, just like in the real world where the bad guy win. This just gives me a feeling like ill be playing and feeling everyone is bad around me some kind of sensation i didnt had before, world is already cruel and corrupted why our games have to be to? if someone have the power not politic involved to solve, punish and teach a lesson to the bad guys.

    they cant fix it up because they lack the skill to do so... That is what happen when you hire high school boys as GMs and not professionals...

    note... there is no trade feature at all, they do allow scaming becasue they dont want people to use the mail as some sort of trading system...

    Way to go, now we cant evade the TP tax... The only way is to farm your own stuff and end up with the 'Blade' vampire guy in jail... TP tax evasion lol!

  • AzureProwerAzurePrower AustraliaPosts: 1,508Member Uncommon

    I find it amusing that there is an in game report function that has "scamming" as one of the options.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by AzurePrower

    I find it amusing that there is an in game report function that has "scamming" as one of the options.

    This is the best line in the whole thread, says all that needs to be said about ArenaNet.

    image
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by AzurePrower

    I find it amusing that there is an in game report function that has "scamming" as one of the options.

    This is the best line in the whole thread, says all that needs to be said about ArenaNet.

    That they actually might have taken punitive action against the person that was scamming without telling the victim? 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    They can't police this kind of stuff.  It's just too time intensive for them to do.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,988Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zoyita

    Sad but true, as the title said. I trusted another player that where gonna sell me ectos for 50gold. 50 gold all i had, sent by mail gone forever. I had screenshots, all the conversation, everything.

    Do not trust other people in this game, he had my trust and look what he did. This Arena.net reply.

    Well it doesnt have a happy ending you guys will not believe the answer. I didnt even bother to say anything in the official forums because that would get me ban. Here is the answer: Scamming is Allowed on GW2

    Hello Zoyita,

    Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Game Support Team.

    We understand that some transactions take place in the game world often involve a certain element of trust. A player will need to place trust in another player to fulfill his or her end of an agreement. Occasionally a player will go back on an agreement or act in a less-than-honest manner. Such acts are matters over which we have no control of and cannot take corrective measures. If a player does not live up to his or her end of an agreement we are unable to force that player to do so.

    If you have additional questions please let us know.

    Regards,
    GM Sparse
    Guild Wars Support Team

    ----
    I played other games where scammers where punished, i guess not this one. I already have 30G back from the 50G i lost but is sad that someone can be a villain and GW2 wont make justice, just like in the real world where the bad guy win. This just gives me a feeling like ill be playing and feeling everyone is bad around me some kind of sensation i didnt had before, world is already cruel and corrupted why our games have to be to? if someone have the power not politic involved to solve, punish and teach a lesson to the bad guys.

    Because our games are supposed to be virtual worlds where sometimes yes, the bad guys win.  The only real mistake GW2 makes is it doesn't give you the option to exact retribution on your aggressor in game unfortunately.

    I'm going to guess they aren't enforcing the fraud clause because in game gold has no "real world" value.  Had they stolen real money from you some how they might of, but otherwise they consider theft of in game items no really fraud.

    I know you might not agree, but legally I don't think many people have ever successfully proven in a court of law they have legal rights when it comes to this sort of thing.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    You learned the hard way my friend....
    Never ever send items / money in such way or you ask to be scammed.

    Play Eve Online for a moment and its one of the 1st things you learn.

    Also if it sound to good to be true it often is to good to be true.

    Hope you learned a lesson and never do such thing again.


  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,273Member Uncommon
    Op, I. Would escalate this one. That's a nice chunk of real dollars.

  • PieRadPieRad Odense MPosts: 1,108Member

    10 years ago in Runescape, I would yell "Selling rune 2h" (Half price), I'd trade someone pop in the Rune 2h, when he saw the sword he would start paying attention to his coins, so i swapped it with iron...

    The start of a long and profitable venture :D

     

    Scammed a purple party hat once.

    They sell for 500$.

    Yep, for a hat that does nothing.

     

     

     

    image

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,806Member Uncommon

    Lets imagine that the OP would get its money back.

    Why would anyone use anything but the mail to trade?

     

    The risk would be 0 and the reward assured.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member
    the best you can do is give his name and server so we can trash him on chat
  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Arcade, NYPosts: 253Member Uncommon

    I love the answers given to the OP.

    99% Trolls and maybe 1% helpful.

    Never, ever trust anyone online. Ever.

    Arena,Nets always punishing the wrong people anyways while letting the real wrongdoers go. Yes, I'm looking at you gold extortionists..XD

  • nikolaitnikolait HissaryaPosts: 5Member

    OMG !!! C'mon ppl!! 

     

    Bro you can farm that amount of gold for 7-10 max, stop cryin be a man not a girl. 

    Now stop crying and go farm. 

  • gwarfgwarf Phoenix, AZPosts: 11Member Common

    I wrote a long repsonse to this... but instead I will ask a question...

    Is it wrong to RP as a thief?

     

    This thread would seem to vote yes, and they also should probably not become car salesmen.

     

     

  • HaloheadHalohead Carthage, NYPosts: 11Member

    I think the OP was just trying to take advantage of a system that is in most MMOs, but sadly absent from GW2. I mean, the usual economic system is that you use the AH for convenience and actual inter-character trading when you want the good deals. In other MMOs I would always put the stuff I wanted to sell on the auction house because I just wanted to post it and forget. I didn't want to spend hours spamming offers or browsing chats for buyers just to make a better profit, I usually had better shit to do.

    Guild Wars 2 should offer that same choice. The OP took the time to look for and find a better deal than what the TP was offering (although it wasn't authentic), if the game actually supported a trading system where two windows opened up, he put in the gold, the other guy put in the ectos, and both players clicked confirm, then the OP should've gotten it. That's the way the game should be, not risk for reward, but more time and commitment for better profit.

    That being said, the OP is still at fault for sending in the entirety of his gold in the mail to a complete stranger and hoping the guy has integrity. I won't call him an idiot for it, it can happen to anyone, even happened to me once. It's just a lesson everyone learns sooner or later.

     

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Halohead

    I think the OP was just trying to take advantage of a system that is in most MMOs, but sadly absent from GW2. I mean, the usual economic system is that you use the AH for convenience and actual inter-character trading when you want the good deals. In other MMOs I would always put the stuff I wanted to sell on the auction house because I just wanted to post it and forget. I didn't want to spend hours spamming offers or browsing chats for buyers just to make a better profit, I usually had better shit to do.

    Guild Wars 2 should offer that same choice. The OP took the time to look for and find a better deal than what the TP was offering (although it wasn't authentic), if the game actually supported a trading system where two windows opened up, he put in the gold, the other guy put in the ectos, and both players clicked confirm, then the OP should've gotten it. That's the way the game should be, not risk for reward, but more time and commitment for better profit.

    That being said, the OP is still at fault for sending in the entirety of his gold in the mail to a complete stranger and hoping the guy has integrity. I won't call him an idiot for it, it can happen to anyone, even happened to me once. It's just a lesson everyone learns sooner or later.

     

    I disagree with the second paragraph. I don't think GW2 should have both systems, and I think the current system is superior.  The OP did not "take the time" to look for and find a better deal, they got caught up in a scam performed by multiple players pretending to be trading stuff, so that they could scam them out of all their gold.  The TP is far superior, direct player to player transactions are only needed for scam artists.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member

    OP:

    Looking at Anet's reply, we don't know if they investigated this an issued a punishment. All that reply basically says is that they can't force the other player to pay you what they owe you. It doesn't mean they didn't hand out a suspension/ban to this player. 

    Also I see a lot of "what ifs" in this thread if a certain system were in place. It doesn't matter whether a certain system is in place. What matters is the current system in place. You shouldn't be tailoring your transactions to systems in other games, or what it should be. 

    Fact is the only people here to blame is the OP himself and the person who did this. Anet's not to blame. Since there is no face-to-face trading, or COD system in place, the OP should have exercised more caution in his transactions. Just as in the real world, you should be looking at the offered price. You should always be comparing the prices of objects to the TP. If they are way to far below the TP, then it's probably a good sign that it's a scam. And you should have never given the other person the full amount before they paid up their part. 

    Even then, trading through mail should NOT be done except with people you trust. 

    Now should GW2 have some sort of face-to-face trading system? Perhaps. 

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