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Combat sucks... why so much hype?

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  • Darth_OsorDarth_Osor Mt Laurel, NJPosts: 1,089Member
    Add another that does not want twitchy MMO combat and prefers traditional tab targetting.  Twitch combat is the number one reason I will not play a MMO.
  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by xeniar
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by Theocritus
          I dont really get the hype for thsi game eitehr...The vids I watched had one person jsut tearing through every mob in a matter of seconds...I didnt see any real skill or anything, just quick zergfest fighting.....I guess for some people that makes a great game while others like slower, strategic combat.

    Now go back and watch some videos again, AA is one of the harder games where teamwork is needed even for questing, its hard to quest alone, since you are gonna have hard time when 3 mobs attacking. And the combat isn't fast paced at all.

    You probably watched another MMO, or just a high level character roaming in a low level zone.

    You can't reach max level in AA alone (or you can but it will take you long, and many deaths), unlike for example in GW2 where you can reach max level without writting a single line in the chatbox!

    Is this true? or are you just getting my hopes up for a game where grouping is promoted?

    i have to say i have not yet delved into alot that is AA exept for a video here and there. I want to keep the world as rich and exiting as it posibly can be but from what im hearing and seeing i will love it.

    If you jump into the game without reading guides and planning your built, you gonna have a hard time past level 20, but if you take some time to plan the built which you want to play, then you can solo up to about level 30. But past level 30 you need to start looking for groups to do quests. It still possible to solo up to level 40 for hardcore players, but slowly (not by doing all quests for some grouping is a must, for example at mob camps where 5+ will attack at the same time, a DPS can deal with 2-3 mobs, but not with 4). But after reaching 40+ you will have to leave the southern continents and move to the northern one, where are mobs even harder and you have to keep an eye for PvP'ers too. And after reaching the max level 50 the real party starts with sieges, territory control and fighting for the resources. Indeed the game is challenging, more then the usual MMOs.

  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNPosts: 371Member

    FPS combat has nothing to do with a mmo. Look at all the crap mmos like darkfail.

    The future of mmo combat is tab targeting, skill  and position management. Imagine Fallen earth with Tab targeting, would be so epic.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by xeniar
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by Theocritus
          I dont really get the hype for thsi game eitehr...The vids I watched had one person jsut tearing through every mob in a matter of seconds...I didnt see any real skill or anything, just quick zergfest fighting.....I guess for some people that makes a great game while others like slower, strategic combat.

    Now go back and watch some videos again, AA is one of the harder games where teamwork is needed even for questing, its hard to quest alone, since you are gonna have hard time when 3 mobs attacking. And the combat isn't fast paced at all.

    You probably watched another MMO, or just a high level character roaming in a low level zone.

    You can't reach max level in AA alone (or you can but it will take you long, and many deaths), unlike for example in GW2 where you can reach max level without writting a single line in the chatbox!

    Is this true? or are you just getting my hopes up for a game where grouping is promoted?

    i have to say i have not yet delved into alot that is AA exept for a video here and there. I want to keep the world as rich and exiting as it posibly can be but from what im hearing and seeing i will love it.

    If you jump into the game without reading guides and planning your built, you gonna have a hard time past level 20, but if you take some time to plan the built which you want to play, then you can solo up to about level 30. But past level 30 you need to start looking for groups to do quests. It still possible to solo up to level 40 for hardcore players, but slowly (not by doing all quests for some grouping is a must, for example at mob camps where 5+ will attack at the same time, a DPS can deal with 2-3 mobs, but not with 4). But after reaching 40+ you will have to leave the southern continents and move to the northern one, where are mobs even harder and you have to keep an eye for PvP'ers too. And after reaching the max level 50 the real party starts with sieges, territory control and fighting for the resources. Indeed the game is challenging, more then the usual MMOs.

    Sorry but their are other MMO's that are just as challenging, EVE and Age Of Wushu to name two mmos.

    image
  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    OP is entitled to his point. Perhaps the op just hasnt looked deep enough yet. Personally through my research of ArcheAge and Neverwinter, I am feeling more pulled toward Neverwinter. Somethings I lke and dislike about both, but there were more dislikes in the Archeage column. Combat is one of them yes.
  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon

    I recently watched some in game videos, as game definitely got a lot of hype, but I really do not see anything that would make me want even to try it. Seems awfully boring, and what really made me laugh was the part of video when you have to kill bunny... really????I mean.. really???  Sigh.. I think I am too old for this kind of fun.

    I like that you can climb trees and there is probably lots of other sandboxy things, but it does not look like it's a game for me. But then I am not a sanbox lover... I hate crafting, house keeping etc...

    Video of someone's first day in game... killing bunny around 7:00

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXM6VJHZAsU

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by LlexX
    ...Indeed the game is challenging, more then the usual MMOs.

    Sorry but their are other MMO's that are just as challenging, EVE and Age Of Wushu to name two mmos.

    Of course there are... thats why i said challenging more then the USUAL, in AA a casual gamer won't be hitting max level in just a few days, and getting the best available gear after a few weeks.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,479Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    I see. I didn't mean it to come off like you all were dumb for liking this, I was just curious as to why the population is reverting again. This game does seem feature enriched... but as a lot of us come to such games to fight (not all of us I know) I just don't see how the hype can be so high on a WoW style combat.

     Yes you meant it or you wouldn't have written it.  People have different tastes.  When you see something that other people seem to love but you don't, understand just that.  We know you posted it because you wanted to start something.

  • PsychoPigeonPsychoPigeon UnkownPosts: 565Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KingofHartz
    OP is entitled to his point. Perhaps the op just hasnt looked deep enough yet. Personally through my research of ArcheAge and Neverwinter, I am feeling more pulled toward Neverwinter. Somethings I lke and dislike about both, but there were more dislikes in the Archeage column. Combat is one of them yes.

    He's not entitled to his point, why should someone be entitled to an opinion if they haven't gone over the relevant information to come to a logical conclusion. If I see the OP leaving a sex shop I could have all kinds of opinions but for all I know he just went in there to visit a friend.

  • lindhskylindhsky Helsingborg, FLPosts: 129Member Uncommon

    Not sure if I will like AA or not but to me it looks promising. Atleast featurewise. But I haven't liked many games lately and I am not sure if it is me getting older or if it's just the same old game in another package. But I rather have a more traditionaly target combat system than FPS. I just hate when people jump around on the screen trying to not get hit like in many FPS-games. Actually I didn't like GW2 either because of all the rolling(evades). Now I know that people jumped around like spasmatic rabbits in WOW as well but it was of no advantage for them unless they faced players that didn't know how to turn around their characters. :) 

    Combat is important - I agree, but I rather have the old system (DAOC, WOW etc) and a deep game besides combat. In the perfect game for me pvp actually means something and not only a hunt for points. If AA will have that then I don't need a brand new combatsystem that will set the world on fire.

    But defending your village/city/house sounds like a reason to fight.

    I am not much of a crafter myself, but still I love when it's it in a game.

    So I will try out AA even if I agree the combat doesn't look that impressive. Hopefully the game is somewhat successful so that other new games will copy the best of it and perhaps in 2032 we will have the game that everyone seems to look for in these forums.


  • Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    This is indeed the only thing i really dislike about AA, the old tab targeting system. It make no sense at all.
    But well, we will see.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by kdchan

     


    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

     

    This is indeed the only thing i really dislike about AA, the old tab targeting system. It make no sense at all.
    But well, we will see.

    Why dont it make sence their are still millions of mmo gamers that still like that system. Because RaiderZ and then Tera and now a few more mmos dont have it does not mean its dead.

     

    Anyone who thought tab targetting was dead is deluding themselves.

    image
  • darkrain21darkrain21 philadelphia, PAPosts: 274Member
    People clearly dont understand the amount of work that goes into making a live action combat system. Not only do you have to create in depth animations and movements for the character you also have to perfect the hit system. As well as making it to where the servers keep up with the action with out giving in. The tab system is to make combat easy for the devs while at the same time building a rich and engaging game. If combat makes or breaks an mmo for you and the only style you like if GW2 or tera than go play those games, but ill warn you the amount of time, effort and money that go into those systems you will not see a new mmo very often.
  • wizyywizyy Novi SadPosts: 629Member

    To each his own.

    I enjoy lots of very different games - World of Tanks and War Thunder, for example are very much action-oriented, aim and shoot, "arcade-ish" sort of games.

    But at the same time, I could not get into any action-based MMORPG - like Tera or Vindictus. Maybe it's the "bayonetta" style of it, or the animations, or I just can't process the "kiddie-style" of it all.

    Maybe for the lot of people, action-based MMORPG just isn't done right .... yet.

    Therefore, I look forward in ArcheAge to the one combat that worked very good in MMORPGs that I played and enjoyed. I know that it won't dissapoint me, and sandbox (or sand-park) gameplay promises to be so much more than combat.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

     

    I don't want just flashy effects like some of the "other games" to define my experience.  ArcheAge adds  the game factor into the reason why you play a game in the first place.

     

    Theres depth and a whole bunch of stuff to do.

     

    I can easily overlook combat.  The majority of games recently released had ho-hum combat.  What makes them worth playing is what lies beneath.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member

    Fighting is such a tiny portion of what this massive world has to offer. I would probably put in 100s of hours even if there was no fighting lol. This game screams "AWESOME FUN-CTIONS" Get it....fun...ctions... har har

    Cant wait for this bomb ass game!

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    Spoken like a true single player online rpg'er.

    Ill give you a little tip from an  old MMO'er: Combat is not everything son.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Where is the skill/strategy in the combat in AA? I can't find any resources that describe the design ideas behind it (the Korean main page is a bit confusing)? Thanks anyone who can point to a source... Found this: for descriptions:

    http://archeagewiki.com/Ability#Combat

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Some people like the WoW style combat and some people don't.  

     

    I personally like a version of it better than what I'm guessing you like.  I'm assuming that you really enjoy FPS style combat in MMO's.  Which to me is just the flavor of the month at this point.  In a fantasy setting, it still has not been done at AAA quality.  In shooters?  Yeah, there are a few out there right now that are progressing toward AAA quality, but those games aren't true MMO's either.  I'm talking about games like Planetside 2 and Firefall.  They have only increased instance sizes compared to your typical shooter, so it's not quite there yet.

     

    There is still a tremendous amount of skill involved in a hotkey/tab-targetting combat system.  To think otherwise is being ignorant and elitist.  Is there more skill involved as far as hand-eye coordination?  Sure, that's obvious.  But strategy is no different.  You're not all of a sudden playing a different game.  It's a lot easier to give the players a more even playing field in a system like that.  When you offer up a FPS game, the talent gap drastically increases and less people want to play because of it.  It's really a win-win for the gaming industry at this point.

     

    By all means.  You can like what you want to like.  I just will have to disagree, and I can make points to prove it.

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo

    Where is the skill/strategy in the combat in AA? I can't find any resources that describe the design ideas behind it (the Korean main page is a bit confusing)? Thanks anyone who can point to a source... Found this: for descriptions:

    http://archeagewiki.com/Ability#Combat

    You have no idea where to search... thats a 2 year old discussion, much have changed since then.

    Look at some of the guides here:

    Guides to ArcheAge

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo

    Where is the skill/strategy in the combat in AA? I can't find any resources that describe the design ideas behind it (the Korean main page is a bit confusing)? Thanks anyone who can point to a source... Found this: for descriptions:

    http://archeagewiki.com/Ability#Combat

    You have no idea where to search... thats a 2 year old discussion, much have changed since then.

    Look at some of the guides here:

    Guides to ArcheAge

    That's helpful - thank you.

    http://archeagesource.com/topic/680-types-of-professions/ Is great to see this in mmorpgs (more than just combat). :)

    The combat itself looks to be a lot to do with shuffling a deck (skills-based). So that gives some background. I'd like to see vids of different builds combating and seeing how the deck choices interact... /see if youtube can divulge something.

    Thanks!

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo
    The combat itself looks to be a lot to do with shuffling a deck (skills-based). So that gives some background. I'd like to see vids of different builds combating and seeing how the deck choices interact... /see if youtube can divulge something.

    Combat is not that usual tab-based, its a tweaked version of it with real physics and a very good obstacle detection system, for example a ranged class will have a hard time in a dense forest, you can use the environment to hide behind objects from attacks, there are lots of skill to be used, and a 10-15 level difference doesn't mean that the higher level one will win.

    More skills needed to play this game then for example GW2 (which some say that its an action based MMO, for me its more like a scripted version of tab-targetting), but less then for example DF2.0 or Eve.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I haven't heard anyone talking about combat mechanics as a selling point for AA. I think that's really a secondary consideration. The large scale siege mechanics, land ownership, and boat building probably all come first.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo
    The combat itself looks to be a lot to do with shuffling a deck (skills-based). So that gives some background. I'd like to see vids of different builds combating and seeing how the deck choices interact... /see if youtube can divulge something.

    Combat is not that usual tab-based, its a tweaked version of it with real physics and a very good obstacle detection system, for example a ranged class will have a hard time in a dense forest, you can use the environment to hide behind objects from attacks, there are lots of skill to be used, and a 10-15 level difference doesn't mean that the higher level one will win.

    More skills needed to play this game then for example GW2 (which some say that its an action based MMO, for me its more like a scripted version of tab-targetting), but less then for example DF2.0 or Eve.

    It takes the skill - just a different type of skill. DF 2.0 is basically the same as GW2 can't say about EVE - started playing and left because most of the players I knew were AFK playing (yeah - that is a great MMO).  Seeing the combat films from Archage looks like a speeded up version of D and D (dice rolls).

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,409Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    Because it's modeled after a gigantic world...wheres players dictate the economy etc.

    Good combat or not, I'm refuse to play one of those WoW-pansy Theme Park games.

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