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Originally posted by kalinis I see there angle too. They don't see a dime of the 20 dollars or so profit companies like gamefly get from second hand sales. So i like the idea. Its called copyright, I will support sony and any other game company that does this. my gf did buy me a couple second hand games once. but i perfer to buy them new, If i have to wait for them to come down to 30 dollar range so be it but still its there games. they have a right to make sure they see profit from every sale.
[mod edit] What about people that own multiple consoles? What about people who for one or another reason had to replace their console? It doesnt all revolve around second hand sales.
Originally posted by Talonsin I dont understand why software is different from any other material item. If I buy a DVD player from Wal-Mart I get the rights to it and I can sell it to my neighbor. Why should a console game be any different? What makes a console game different from a music CD or a painting or any other material item? I understand the thought process that we are only leasing the software but that is complete bullcrap. What is the difference between buying a console game and leasing a console game forever? NONE! It is just wording used by the software industry so they can control our rights to resell. It is wrong and sadly, there is nothing we can do since the software industry pays so much for lobbiest's in Washington.
Problem is, you get a lot more useage out of a DVD player, and you aren't likely to copy / duplicate that player. Not true of DVDs, Music, or Games.
Interesting you bring this up, because a lot of the problems games are having can be seen in the music & DVD markets as well. However, each seem to be going about it in different ways.
If you dont like it, dont buy it. These companies will allways do what they can get away with. Last I checked they have all grown into multi billion dollar companies so I dont really see how the second hand sales have hurt they're business. They make blockbuster sales and Blockbuster profits on Good Games.
On a recent released game up here in Canada, EB will sell the game for about $5 less then new, which they always try to pawn on me and I always tell them to get stuffed as I think it's a joke to recieve anything less then a 30% discount on something thats been used.
Talk with your wallet...
To this day I refuse to buy an Xbox because making you pay to use it online and play with friends is Bullshit
And dont get me started about having to sit through 10min of fucking commercials after I've paid good coin to watch the damn movie. Which is the biggest reason I only go to see 1 or 2 movie's a year these days.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Only got 1 comment on this....
I think what the game making company got to realise is, if they sell their boxed game cheaper in the first place, this entire piracy and second mark thing would not have became popular.
Just look at music and movie sales now, songs are sold on iTune appstore for dirt cheap, not much people bother to bittorrent or download songs from some illegit sites anymore. Also, older movies you can get it on DVD for what, like 5 bucks? No one even bother to pirate them unless they really can't find it, as you won't hardly find anyone seeding them.
I think game producers has always shot themselves in the foot by selling their boxed games for anywhere beyond $69.95. There is a reason why Steam is so popular (mostly because it is convenient, on discount a lot of times, and often times CHEAPER). I think for games that people are NOT going to play for longer then a week a lot of people struggles to find a reason to buy it rather than obtain it through second-hand, rental or illegal means when it is priced at anywhere beyond $40.
It's a two prong problem.
If Game Publishers get their way, they'll be able to make substantially more money on their games. This could argueably (but defintely won't happen) bring the prices of games back down. This would also help "possibly" limit the number of crap games being release since publishers would have more money for development.
However, on the reverse side, stores like Gamestop (who the vast majority of their sales IS used software/hardware) would go under.
Realistically speaking, game rentals (while still out there) are a dying breed. This is in part to failed business practices and philosophy of rental stores like Blockbuster or Hollywood Video. They can't compete with Redbox and Netflix, and have failed to innovate.
If anything, Game Publishers could begin to require an internet connection to authenticate the software. In the case of used software, a nominal fee to buy a key could be done.
There is no right or wrong answer. PC gamers have been dealing with this for years now. First we had CD authentication, which is easily cracked. Now we have online authentication with the developers server, which is more dificult. Once the "key" is used; its dead. You can't really resell the game. We know this, we accept this.
Microsoft and Sony have already screwed up with reverse compatibility of their previous system's games with their new system. It would be the proverbial straw that broke the camels back if they block used software too.
Raquelis in various gamesPlayed: EverythingPlaying: League of Legends, EQ1 (Ragefire Lockjaw), Dark Souls III, HearthstoneWants: The WorldAnticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon
They currently don't have this in any of the ps2 games or ps3 games. It would have to be on their end. To check through the psn network. This would hurt rentals, and resale places like gamestop and replay's.
I think it just about nuts.
SOE is not the only company trying to do this, many companies are. Won't work though. Just as it didn't work for books, toys, clothing, cars, etc, etc, etc, ....
everyone comparing games to materials things, cars, houses, dvd playerswhatnot
all of those have not a material side, houe plan, was needed to build a house, which cost a ton, and can never be used again
car had same plans + patents and another 200 plans and patents for every separeta part, you cant use or sell those, you dont even know them
same goes for every kinda material thing, plans patents, that cost money and cannot be sold or used
but when its a game, and game is planted on dvd that costbarely 1$ , instead of a house where work and materials makes 90% of the price
game is like 1% and 99% other way around, yet when selling a house, you include all those house plans, all those water and electricity permisions, which cannot be used again or sold and write them off, because you sell material part of a house, and not plans for a house which can never be used to build a new house, because new plan even if identical is needed, which will cost
but when it comes to a game, you want to sell that unsellable part, that cannot be used for profits by others, erase dvd and sell it for material part then.. because thats what you own, not a game, not plan or patent, or any copyright material , get your head around it
Originally posted by Smikis everyone comparing games to materials things, cars, houses, dvd playerswhatnot all of those have not a material side, houe plan, was needed to build a house, which cost a ton, and can never be used again car had same plans + patents and another 200 plans and patents for every separeta part, you cant use or sell those, you dont even know them same goes for every kinda material thing, plans patents, that cost money and cannot be sold or used but when its a game, and game is planted on dvd that costbarely 1$ , instead of a house where work and materials makes 90% of the price game is like 1% and 99% other way around, yet when selling a house, you include all those house plans, all those water and electricity permisions, which cannot be used again or sold and write them off, because you sell material part of a house, and not plans for a house which can never be used to build a new house, because new plan even if identical is needed, which will cost but when it comes to a game, you want to sell that unsellable part, that cannot be used for profits by others, erase dvd and sell it for material part then.. because thats what you own, not a game, not plan or patent, or any copyright material , get your head around it
What the heck are you going on about?
I can legally sell my legally purchased copy of copyrighted material. I just cant sell a copy of my legally purchased copy of copyrighted material.
A book is a medium
A DVD is a medium
A downloaded copy is a medium
A board game is a medium
An automobile is a medium
I like the individuals who keep trying to justify used game sales as a right... it isn't, wrap your capitalist minds around the simple fact that used game sales+new game sales= total game sales, the math is retardedly simple for the profit too because on the publisher developer end they get 30-40$*new game sales (not the whole ~60$ mind you unless we're talking EA games over Origin or such) so in essence used game sales take money away from the people who brought you the game and gives it to people who found out they can screw them over by offering a buy back program for used game copies which incentivieses people to sell their copies back quick (if I am not mistaken you get around 20-30$ back this way if you sell the game back to the retailler used).
To put it bluntly this is wrong, anyone trying to justify its existence is either woefuly ignorant of the system or just plain doesn't care as long as he/she can be an irresonsibile gamer who can go pick out games, play them, bring them back and significantly reduce the impact of this habit on his/her own monthly expenses.
That being said I am neither a supporter of Sony ( I was rooting for the hacker who cracked open the PS3 when he got sued) nor any other publisher or developer for that matter, what I am is someone who sees what greed and narrowmindedness are doing to hurt people who ply their trade and bring you products which lighten your daily load through a few hours of shooty violence/conquest/whatever you fancy and it has to stop, these people can't bring you quality products if they can't make a living from it.
Addendum: The only time used game sales are ok is when the game cannot be acquired anymore from retailers in which case go nuts, hell I doubt the devs/publisher would mind the 4-5 min it would take to patch that particular game out of an ID verification system (if it is a good one it would only really take a few modifications to a code at worse).
My own opinion (remember this)
consoles are suppose to be semi-portable, you can even find them in trunk of peoples vehicles hooked up to a LCD screen (for the rides that re pimped out).
Honestly, the locking of game disk I do not like.. but then again it would make people purchase more products.. from a gamer point of view I don't like it but from a business stand point, it is a good action to take.. but in the middle is where they need to look.. Perhaps make the availability to sign in to your account and play the game on the persons console without the disk.. But in doing so would assume everyone has a 12+Mbps connection.. which isn't possible to state in this day in age since DSL is still around.
Either way I don't care since I never take my games to other peoples places anyways, why play your game when a game they have could open up your perspective to new genre of gaming that you would have other wise not of liked unless you played their game?
It basically gives the purpose for that person to come over to your place to play one of your games and hang out, having a guy (or girl) night gaming.
There are better things to be worrying about than this.. Like the quality of games being produced starting to head south even more.
And the same argument can be made for the automobile industry or any other industry for that matter. Every used car sale takes away from the profits of the automobile companies who work so hard and employ so many people it should be ilegal to sell used cars.
A game should be no different then a book. If it was ilegal to sell used games then retail outlets like EB would have their asses sued off.
Books are an intellectual media just like GAMES and they have been bought and sold second hand over the last 2 or 3 thousand years to this very day AND should set precidence over what these greedy corporations want.
Iirc there was a rumor that the next Xbox would have this sort of feature as well. Honestly, I hope it is true. I would rather the money for the games go to the developers / publishers then to Gamestop. But on the other hand the rentals getting nailed is what I don't like about this concept. I also don't want to see potentially thousands and thousands of people lose jobs over this. Gamestop would probably be fine since they still can sell Nintendo games, games for the other platforms,pc games,accessories,ect. but they would certainly have to cut down since a ton of the money they get is from used game sales. Gamefly would pretty much cease to exist which is sad because it is a great service. Blockbuster would be more screwed then they are now..
Maybe it won't be as bad as I think it is for those guys, but it would not suprise me if this had less effect on the industry then I am thinking. This could actually end up being an opportunity for PC gaming to rise to the occasion since most sales would start becoming digital. In the long run I think they just don't want Gamestop to sell used games anymore and this goal would most certainly be met if this was the case. Another thing to consider is that it is logical to assume that in 10 years we will be a completely digital industry anyways so why prolongue the inevitable?
The major issue that this would have immedietly is the idea of the "party" game. Basically, no more bringing your game to a friends house. Want to play Rock band and have a drunken shin-dig with your bros? Well, you have to bring your whole console to the party.
One more issue that I don't think many people are considering is the impact this could have on entertainment in general. What if a system like this could be applied to physical media like movies? Imagine if you could only watch your movies on a certain player in the house and you could not buy them used..
And what if a game completely sucks? like many of them do. Where's your recourse? you cant even go pawn them off anymore. Will the publisher's have to offer you a refund for a lacking product? What make's them above other industries?
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
this is why i am going back to pc gameing
MS and Sony are treating their consel owners like a canser
its all just greed it stops no hacker and only puts games on a untuchable level for the poor gameing is the only thing some of us have now they want to take that too cant pay $60 well then no games for you it's just not right
Wow, that was fast. Kinda interesting.
I'm all for protecting against piracy as long as it does not come at a detriment to the consumer experience.
This only shows the technology component, not how the process of managing it will be implemented. That said, I kind of think Sony will screw this up anyhow.
Originally posted by Talin I'm all for protecting against piracy as long as it does not come at a detriment to the consumer experience. This only shows the technology component, not how the process of managing it will be implemented. That said, I kind of think Sony will screw this up anyhow.
Yeah. I would not be entirely surprised if this only affects certain titles or if it even is being applied to the PS4.
I remember there being talk of this for the PS3 as well back when it was still in development but they (obviously) never went through with it. It's worrying that this kind of shit is resurfacing. I've always been a Playstation fan but if they pull this shit with the PS4 I ain't buying it. I usually buy my game copies new but every now and then I buy a used one and then I expect it to work, goddamnit.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
PS4 downstairs in the game/man cave but want to play it on the one upstairs ? Buy another copy.
Sorry Sony , and defenders of this , that is just moronic.
Steam currently lets you play all your games on any PC you want to download it to , just one at a time, not rocket science , the idea of being locked into a specific machine will kill , kill consoles.
Hopefully one console maker will utitlize this opportunity to make sure and not do it , and push that their console doesnt do this , would be an auto win for said maker who would then crush all the idiots manufacturers who tried to go this route.
Originally posted by Coxel That is illegal in the USA. They might be able to enforce that elsewhere but here we do have a right that protects us from such measure and has been upheld repeatedly by the supreme court.
Any "rights" you may have in the US depend on who owns the politicians in question. The "law" is what ever the Orcs back in Mordor on the potomac say that it is. All that those corps have to do is make more generous "contributions" to key politicians, to get what ever they want. You may have also noticed that the Nine Riders of the Bench, tend to have a rather "flexible" opinion on what is and isn't "Constitutional", depending on what ideology is involved.
If Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo decide to do this, and do the proper prep work, there is little to prevent it.