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Originally posted by Xiaoki Originally posted by Fishmitts Originally posted by Xiaoki Originally posted by Fishmitts Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles. Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?
Maybe "hardcore" is the problem. Too many sandbox fans expect sandbox MMOs to be these hardcore life consuming virtual worlds and anything less would be a dumbed down casual single player game for carebears.
You can always play something from a long list of other games that were made just for you.
If only there was a website that had such a list.....
Playing: 3D chess while while others play checkers.
Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.
Originally posted by Xiaoki But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes.
Second Life, Kaneva and Ultima Online disagree.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles. Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?
I dont know if I could stomach a full sandbox title. I would want some type/form of questing invovled so I probably would want a hybrid.
But given the case, I would make the time to play it. Part of the fun I love about PC MMOs is the save-whenever-I-log-out so I grow my character over time in increments. Since it would be sandbox like there is no 'rush' to end game or max level. So I can really take my time and explore or whatever else I would like to get into.
From the numerous studies that have been done over the years, yes. The average player generally spends around 20 hours a week in thier virtual world of choice. By comparison the average American watches 28 hours of tv a week. The corrolated data tends to show that those who game, or spend copious amounts of time on the internet tend to replace tv time with game time.
Originally posted by Iczer Originally posted by Loktofeit UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).
Wrrrrooonnnngggggg .... UO consumed the better part of 5 or so years of my life ... and it was the best 5 years of virtual life I've spent online out of them all.
Seriously tho, I also never felt time pressured to spend oodles and oodles of time in the sandbox games I liked (UO, Shadowbane). I did, however, spend a lot of time in them becuase they were freeking fun and I spent far to much time at work planning out what I wanted to do when I got in game that evening.
I could explore part of the map I havent been to before or hit one fo the dungeons with some friends that I knew was a real pain to get deep into (but fun the whole time), or go hunting enemy faction players (Order/Chaos in UO), or spend some time on my bard farming monsters at whatever spot I choose to pick that day. The possibilities were endless but out of all of those things I think the one thing I enjoyed the most in UO was just hanging out with my friends in one of our houses in game and meeting / dealing with the random people that would happen by. Some would be looking to attack you so some house fighting would ensue and others just wanted information or to say hi and chat.
With how staunchly you are arguing for the almighty savior of the gaming future I cannot help but be amused since you describe how I acted with WoW almost to a T.
Originally posted by NorseGod Originally posted by Roguewiz Either you're grinding mobs, grinding quests, grinding dungeons, or grinding PvP. Regardless of the wrapping, you're performing some repetitive function to acquire XP so you can get that extra skill point or hit that desired level.
I disagree with this.
Sometimes grinding mobs had nothing to do with xp at all. Some people use to grind mobs to get a rare drop that was an ingredient to build an awesome sword or spellbook for example. It was rewarding.
Now, you grind dungeons for tokens to turn to a vendor and everyone has the same exact setup.
And pvp, there was no grind. You wore the same gear that you obtained from PVE. PvP meant something. Like fighting for control of a zone, dungeon, resource nodes, etc. Now it's well, I don't know the point of PVP now, bragging rights for winning an arena match? It's predictable and scripted fights in a little room with 3rd party macros telling me what button to push and when. Circle strife each other while spamming CCs until someone hits the wrong hotkey and loses the match. Big deal.
I just don't see the accomplishment and reward for having the same skills in my toolbar and the same set of armor as the 1000s of other same class players in the hub city waiting for a que to pop.
I want to put in effort to be different and better. I can't do that in a themepark.
That has absolutely nothing to do with Themeparks and everything to do with the playerbase today. There is no system that with a suffieciently sized population will not fuss out the "best" set up and play copy paste. There is always a mathematically "best" way. Now you can blame WoW for that to an extent as across the gaming landscape you did not see that kind of theorycrafting happening. Even going back to Eq with guilds actively killing content they no longer had a use for just to keep people from challenging them, strats and the like was guarded fiercly. WoW, being instanced, actually allowed the showing of first kill strats and the like with no real blowback or threat outside of the epeen race that has replaced it.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
I have yet to see a good sandbox game to devote any amount of time too. Some of them, if your not there at the start you will always behind with no curve to catch up. I would love to see one that is only based on skill and not on time played. Then you have to try and balance progression, but if you balance anything you are taking away "freedom".
Also its hard to find a good community in a sandbox world. If you ask a question in chat you are usually machine gunned with insults with the rare occasion of the guy that is willing to help.
I would love to see a good sandbox game though, there are a few coming down the line that I might give a shot.
Originally posted by BadSpock I just hate that there is only 1 serious contender in the sandbox play space right now (EvE)- and though it should be a perfect fit for me - the game bores me to tears and I absolutely hate the advancement system.
You and I have had completely different experiences with EVE. For me, not only is it the best sandbox out there, it is the best MMORPG available right now. And I love the advancement system. Progressing my character whille offline? Love it. A dozen or so careers/paths that I can choose for my character? Super. It also offers a large and diverse universe in which to explore and live, which is great for immersion.
Different strokes I guess.
Edit: In response to the OP: my schedule is extremely limited--I basically play games after my wife and son go to bed, and not so late as to screw myself for work. A sandbox should offer enough activities, short and long, where I can choose to do whatever fits into my schedule for that night.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:DPlay EVE for free for 21 days
Originally posted by IIIcurrier Originally posted by Fearum Most people just use a macro or some form of self botting anyway to level in sandbox games so you really don't need time.
Hmm.. my friends have been playing Asheron's Call 1 for over 10 years now, and the only way they level is through macros, and have been for like 6-7 of those years. For some reason, it doesn't get old to them. The leveling in Asheron's Call is in no way fun after a point, but with macros they can get to max level in a few weeks, so it gets the job done. A LOT of people macro in AC, and it's a sandbox. Not everyone does, but the majority of that game is macroers.
Originally posted by Aviggin Originally posted by IIIcurrier Originally posted by Fearum Most people just use a macro or some form of self botting anyway to level in sandbox games so you really don't need time.
Hmm.. my friends have been playing Asheron's Call 1 for over 10 years now, and the only way they level through the themepark content is through macros, and have been for like 6-7 of those years. For some reason, it doesn't get old to them. The leveling in Asheron's Call is in no way fun after a point, but with macros they can get to max level in a few weeks, so it gets the job done. A LOT of people macro in AC, and it's a sandbox. Not everyone does, but the majority of that game is macroers.
I've got a lot of time and sandbox games are my favorite except none of them can keep my attention for very long because they aren't very well made. Even though most games claim to be sandbox style, they aren't. Age of Wushu for example says its the biggest sandbox game or whatever, except it isn't. You gotta do quests and dungeons in order to get your skills and training, sounds like a great sandbox to me.
Darkfall UW hopefully can put some life back into my sandbox heart, and I can't wait for it to go live.
If you think Sandbox game will devour your life like the old ones did, it means your idea about good sandbox game stays just like 10 years ago.
Plus, themeparks also devour life as much as typical sandbox-claiming-but failed-to-be-one games do.
Yes and no. I've been playing mmorpg's for the past 12-13 years and yes my time now is little compared to the days when I was in highschool playing 2d games online. But in the same sense I do have time inbetween my responsibilites as an adult, school, and relationship to devout some time to a truly great sandbox when it emerges.
Playing: Smite, Marvel HeroesPlayed: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAgeWaiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
First of all, having a mindset that you dont have enough time to play a sandbox is wrong imo. In theme parks you need a set minimum time to stay aboard the ride with minimum gear level requirements for raids and such, with minimum PvP sets and such.
On the other hand, in sandbox you are not supposed to stay in some arbitary gear race, but instead do what you want and what you like. Just look at EVE, it works for old players, new players, you can do what you want in it, and it does not require a set amount of time.
Wanna be a miner? Do the industry tutorial and you get your mining frigate and then you start building towards exhumers, no artificial time limits involved. Want to PvP or faction warfare? Train for jamming frigates and get in PvP in your first week while starting to train for bigger ships and skills of your interest. Want to be a trader? Make a few ISK and throw your self on the market the very first day, while grabbing a cargo ship from business tutorial. Explorers get the same treatment and explorers actually have their very own game mechanics too which is awesome. Or if you want to grind basic missions the basic quest grind style, that's very possible too and actually quite fun at first at least, imo.
Compare that to a themepark game where you always have to do the level grind, then some more, grind in instances to get to harder instances to get to raids and then grind raids to be able to stay in them, because that's the goal set for you before you even start the game. A lot more mandatory time involved.
If you resort to macroing to level up as fast as posible in a sandbox game that means that the journey is boring and that it's all about the endgame and a good sandbox should be all about the journey, imo... so Asheron's Call failed in that department.
They should just do it as Guild Wars 1 did it and make it possible to create a max level character thats PvP only or something similar to that.
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