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Do I really need to be leet?

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  • MeriliremMerilirem Port AugustaPosts: 77Member
    Originally posted by Ortwig

    I like the direction of your thinking.  Let's get more variety in these character occupations!  :)

     

    In all honesty I can't seem to think of anything I didn't cover. The focus was less occupations and more "how" you most enjoyed, or would enjoy your game time. If you or anyone else an think of a new facet which I missed then please say so.

    Also to the one who associated bards with classes. I do not consider the "bard classes" in games a legitimate representation of bardic playstyle. All classes after all are an outdated crutch mechanic which limit the possibilities and personality of a persons gaming experience. With how much we have progressed I believe we need to shed the old ways the industry has become so entrenched in. I beleive the sad fact is that while some would actually prefer a simple grind on tracks most are simply unable to imagine a better way, while others know somethings wrong, but cannot finds the words or lack the ability and or time to figure such things out.

    So now I place my hat into the ring. Whether Anyone likes or accepts my ideas and questions is up to them. I only wish for them to listen, if but for a moment.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hyllstarter
    One reason I like skill based games Not Level based games. Like Pre CU SWG.

     Yes definitely why one of the reason why so many people who played SWG pre NGE still loved and missed SWG.

     

    The fact that you can make an occupation out of non-combat profession and be successful in that enterprise is good for variety and sense of immersion, imo.

  • SlyGamer79SlyGamer79 siesta key, FLPosts: 278Member

    The thinking with this article is refreshing to me and given the option to be good,bad or neutral people like options.

    i'm sure some players would try siding with the villian over being a constant hero or being neutral and just let everything play out and you do whatever you feel like. 

    i'm sure alot of players are so used to sticking with being the hero because thats been the only option for the longest time and if you weren't playing the hero it might conflict with your personal views being the hero for so long. 

    atleast thats how i've gone about things almost always play the hero and get tired of saving the world or that princess to this i say screw it burn down the castle and murder that princess and let out a evil laugh as the bad guys win !. :-D

    PSN-SlyFox5679
    Xfire-Slyfox5679
    raptr-slygamer1979

    image
  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon

    The first choice is a contradiction and impossibility. There is nothing epic about being the hero if everyone can do it. A lot of modern MMOs have you saving the "world" through some solo quest line. What is so epic about being the 10,000th person to slay the dragon and reach max level? Nothing it is like being in Kindergarten and having some over enthusiastic teacher going "yea, you win, you all win." In my book this is retarded, you are retarded, and anyone who likes this type of fake win at everything heroism is retarded.

     

    I am the kind of person that likes real competition where not everyone wins. Many will enter but few will win type of thing. That way "if" you do win it actually means something. Star Wars Galaxies had perfected this formula with the way they originally implemented the Jedi. Not everyone could become a Jedi. You really had to work for it and put in 1000s of hours of time and still there were no guarantees. But if you did make it then you really were epic. Being a Jedi in SWG was truely epic. This is one of the many reasons why I think SWG was the best MMORPG ever made. They really had the whole motivation reward system down perfectly.

  • Vortex5ooVortex5oo a small town inPosts: 106Member


    Originally posted by Merilirem Ahem, ----------- Just because a dragon attacks the town, do I really need to fight it? Is fighting really the only path for mmorpgs? Can I not play a smith or simply prance about with my lute singing everyone else's praises? I just have to wonder why it is that I personally have to fight, to save the world, cant someone else do it? And why can't we decide the worlds not worth saving, to side with whatever master of darkness is currently doomed to fall at the hands of the "heroes". Evil never wins, because winners are always just, not because evil always loses. Just because I live in a fantasy world full of dangers, do I have to be someone special, can't I just be some guy who did what he felt like. Even if I had the skills, weapons or could simply smash those werewolves to death with my fists, does it really fall to me...am I an individual, a person, or am I a train...? Do you think the same?
      Great post. Made me think of Star Wars Galaxies. People on my friendlist was known serverwide for crafting or entertaining. They never touched a gun or did any epic heroics. They were also the richest folks around. Me? I was just a lazy waterfarmer up to no good just doing my little own thing. Sitting on the porch in the shade from the two suns in the sky chewing on some bantha jerky and sipping some jawa beer. The intergalactic war you say? Well I left it to the folks in their shiny armor and big guns. Bah I miss the freedom to play it like that.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    I don't play games to be a blacksmith. In terms of gameplay experience, i have never seen any crafting or singing, as fun (for me) as good combat mechanics.

    The other types of mechanics i like is stealth.

    So .. no .. i don't think like the OP .. and i like combat centric games.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,667Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hyllstarter
    One reason I like skill based games Not Level based games. Like Pre CU SWG.

    Same here. SWG, UO, and EVE are three games where you can actually enjoy the game and be relatively unrestricted in your chosen area of advancement if you travel a path other than fighter.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hercules
    My weaponsmith in swg did not fire a single shot in months and i could easily play 12 hours a day back then.

    I had a Tailor/ Armorsmith. Same thing.

    Even my Swordy/ Ranger while he killed a million Gurrek I think I had him in PvP twice in 3 years? Oddly though, I had a 'rep' with him. A few times people would go hunting with me and I would trot up to a Spiders nest and people were like "AAK, don't hit the lair"!

    So I would proceed to smash it to bits and slaughter the doezens of spiders that rolled out. They really had no idea how much a hammer wielding Swordy could dish out close range. Even the "leet" TKM's were silenced when I was pummeling for meat and hides. I was good at what I did and there was a place for me. We all had a real role to fill. Miss ya SWG :(

  • HedeonHedeon GraestedPosts: 954Member Uncommon

    well OP you get to sound like a lazy bastard....go out there kill the dragon and safe the world! Oo

    have to agree with you though, the more, indepth, options the better, would love to be able to do alternative meaningful activities, not just the "dragon" killing....as for the bard finding epic notes that makes a diffrence, the easy answer to the diffrence it would make, could be something as simple, as the possibility of buffing people with rare effects ; ), I would fully expect alot of whine on the games forums though,...no one is allowed to be special anymore, by the masses

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Ortwig
    I like the direction of your thinking.  Let's get more variety in these character occupations!  :)

     

    In all honesty I can't seem to think of anything I didn't cover. The focus was less occupations and more "how" you most enjoyed, or would enjoy your game time. If you or anyone else an think of a new facet which I missed then please say so. Also to the one who associated bards with classes. I do not consider the "bard classes" in games a legitimate representation of bardic playstyle. All classes after all are an outdated crutch mechanic which limit the possibilities and personality of a persons gaming experience. With how much we have progressed I believe we need to shed the old ways the industry has become so entrenched in. I beleive the sad fact is that while some would actually prefer a simple grind on tracks most are simply unable to imagine a better way, while others know somethings wrong, but cannot finds the words or lack the ability and or time to figure such things out. So now I place my hat into the ring. Whether Anyone likes or accepts my ideas and questions is up to them. I only wish for them to listen, if but for a moment.

    Hehe -- I wasn't asking you to think up more occupations (you captured a great list), but rather it was a general call to work in more variety into character occupations in game.  I like the idea of a range of occupations that can be everything from non-combat bakers and jewel makers to full out dragon slayers.  It just makes for a very nice variety in the world, and would lead, I believe, to a great community of specialists and traders.  The economy would certainly be interesting.  Looking forward to seeing what EQNext comes up with.

  • MeriliremMerilirem Port AugustaPosts: 77Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I don't play games to be a blacksmith. In terms of gameplay experience, i have never seen any crafting or singing, as fun (for me) as good combat mechanics.The other types of mechanics i like is stealth.So .. no .. i don't think like the OP .. and i like combat centric games.

     

    I don't see how other people being a blacksmith or a bard has anything to do with the combat system. Being a blacksmith in a world with no real fighting would be a complete bore, like cooking steak in a country of vegans. Even traveling around is more fun for me at least when I have to watch my step incase some unexpected danger comes out of the bushes. The ideal game in my mind is simply one where people can do as they wish. The needed warriors would defend the towns and guard the bards or other travelers, while those with the ability would fight their way into the deepest reaches of the world, with completely passive partners like healer types and once again an amusing bard or others who have reason to be there. Sneaking around an underground city on your own would be dangerous without battle skills, but it should be allowed. I simply want the many aspects that are so underdeveloped or even ignored completely to be as worked at as the combat systems. I understand it does have the danger of ending as a jack of all trades master of none game in which no one gets what they want, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Making everyone a place in the world requires an army of coders, insight, money and determined passion, but would it not be worth it all to create something truly wonderful?

    Also I in no way think the combat systems we have at the moment are acceptable. Some are better then others by a lot, but still lack that special feeling, though that's a whole difference discussion that isnt ready to be had yet. Time and technology will help us do many things, but it's up to us to do them.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • MarirranyaMarirranya Ortario, OHPosts: 154Member
    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

    There are people who play games and then there are gamers.

    http://alzplz.blogspot.com

  • MeriliremMerilirem Port AugustaPosts: 77Member
    Originally posted by Marirranya

    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

     

    And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon

     OP your thread title is totally inaccurate and dose not do your post justice.

     If the question is do you have to be leet and you have to ask a bunch of strangers to make up your mind then probably yes.

     If however your post as you more accurately state is weither MMos should have different paths and not just the solo heroic save the world role frequently forced on players then I'd also have to say yes.

       Good post, terrible thread title. One shows alot of thought the other ... well not so much so

  • PieRadPieRad Odense MPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Marirranya
    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

     

    And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

    Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

    This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

    image

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,033Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Marirranya
    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

     

    And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

    Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

    This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

    There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

     

    If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I don't play games to be a blacksmith. In terms of gameplay experience, i have never seen any crafting or singing, as fun (for me) as good combat mechanics.

    The other types of mechanics i like is stealth.

    So .. no .. i don't think like the OP .. and i like combat centric games.

     

    I don't see how other people being a blacksmith or a bard has anything to do with the combat system. Being a blacksmith in a world with no real fighting would be a complete bore, like cooking steak in a country of vegans. Even traveling around is more fun for me at least when I have to watch my step incase some unexpected danger comes out of the bushes. The ideal game in my mind is simply one where people can do as they wish. The needed warriors would defend the towns and guard the bards or other travelers, while those with the ability would fight their way into the deepest reaches of the world, with completely passive partners like healer types and once again an amusing bard or others who have reason to be there. Sneaking around an underground city on your own would be dangerous without battle skills, but it should be allowed. I simply want the many aspects that are so underdeveloped or even ignored completely to be as worked at as the combat systems. I understand it does have the danger of ending as a jack of all trades master of none game in which no one gets what they want, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Making everyone a place in the world requires an army of coders, insight, money and determined passion, but would it not be worth it all to create something truly wonderful? Also I in no way think the combat systems we have at the moment are acceptable. Some are better then others by a lot, but still lack that special feeling, though that's a whole difference discussion that isnt ready to be had yet. Time and technology will help us do many things, but it's up to us to do them.

    This is why a skill based system works so much better than level-based.   Combat is simply a skill like any other -- you can have it or not.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter

     OP your thread title is totally inaccurate and dose not do your post justice.

     If the question is do you have to be leet and you have to ask a bunch of strangers to make up your mind then probably yes.

     If however your post as you more accurately state is weither MMos should have different paths and not just the solo heroic save the world role frequently forced on players then I'd also have to say yes.

       Good post, terrible thread title. One shows alot of thought the other ... well not so much so

    You could be a leet farmer!  :)

  • MeriliremMerilirem Port AugustaPosts: 77Member

    Originally posted by Ortwig

    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    I don't play games to be a blacksmith. In terms of gameplay experience, i have never seen any crafting or singing, as fun (for me) as good combat mechanics.

    The other types of mechanics i like is stealth.

    So .. no .. i don't think like the OP .. and i like combat centric games.

     

    I don't see how other people being a blacksmith or a bard has anything to do with the combat system. Being a blacksmith in a world with no real fighting would be a complete bore, like cooking steak in a country of vegans. Even traveling around is more fun for me at least when I have to watch my step incase some unexpected danger comes out of the bushes. The ideal game in my mind is simply one where people can do as they wish. The needed warriors would defend the towns and guard the bards or other travelers, while those with the ability would fight their way into the deepest reaches of the world, with completely passive partners like healer types and once again an amusing bard or others who have reason to be there. Sneaking around an underground city on your own would be dangerous without battle skills, but it should be allowed. I simply want the many aspects that are so underdeveloped or even ignored completely to be as worked at as the combat systems. I understand it does have the danger of ending as a jack of all trades master of none game in which no one gets what they want, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Making everyone a place in the world requires an army of coders, insight, money and determined passion, but would it not be worth it all to create something truly wonderful? Also I in no way think the combat systems we have at the moment are acceptable. Some are better then others by a lot, but still lack that special feeling, though that's a whole difference discussion that isnt ready to be had yet. Time and technology will help us do many things, but it's up to us to do them.

    This is why a skill based system works so much better than level-based.   Combat is simply a skill like any other -- you can have it or not.

    Originally posted by Coman

    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Marirranya
    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

     

    And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

    Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

    This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

    There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

     

    If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

     

    No I did not think the title through, but I didn't think any of this through really. I also wasn't being sarcastic. I have very little idea how this site works since I just joined to make this thread. Skill based systems are by far the more appropriate systems. To be clear the title was just along the lines of, do I really need to be the same as everyone else, with the implied- can't I just do what I want. Again, not great at using forums of any kind really. I get so sick of saying things and having people just completely miss the point that until I had a need, I didn't bother. Right now my plan is to figure out exactly what people want, not what they think they want, but what they actually need. Life is a game that never really ends after all, and people don't stop playing that much.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Coman
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Marirranya
    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

     

    And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

    Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

    This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

    There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

     

    If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

    There is a game for that .. farmville.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,667Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Coman
    Originally posted by PieRad
    Originally posted by Merilirem
    Originally posted by Marirranya
    i dont try to be leet but i want to play my characters as best as i can :3

     

    And that's a beautiful thing Which everyone should strive for, since after all why do anything if your not willing to do it with all your heart.

    Right, let's get off eachothers t*ts here shall we!

    This is MMORPG.com... WE KEEL EACHOTHER FOR HAVING DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLES! RAWR!

    There actually in agreement. The first person said that he tries to do his best and the second person agreed that is what everyone should strive for. I dont know why though, the wording somehow makes it sound sarcastic, but I doubt it was meant that way.

     

    If I had to make a choice I would become just a simple farmer on a small homestead. Maybe part of a large community nearby or if a game every allows me. Be a random nobody in a huge medival army. Just one guys among 100s or 1000s of other random nobodies. No name hovering above my head, no special skills or whatever and if my character dies, then well he is dead. 

    There is a game for that .. farmville.

    or UO

    or Mabinogi

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • darkedone02darkedone02 Louisville, KYPosts: 552Member

    Creativity is what I love the best in everything as their should always be vast choices to pick from, and always have a unique touch to each certain skill out there. I love to become a constructor and build the most fancy looking building or to make simple homes for certain towns. I want to become a blacksmith and develop a unique weapon that no one ever made before that is both powerful and beautiful. I wish to write my own music and play a unique toon that other players would like and spread the word about it.

    Crerativity is what make the world turns everyday, and help develop successfully and unsuccessful goods. The will to learn is what help level up your own talents.

    image

  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member
    I would love to just be a villager with a family.  I could have all of my credit cards maxed out.  I could have my 16 year daughter always asking to go do stuff every night.  She would not have a job.  I would have to pay taxes.  I could have my crazy in-laws down to visit for seemingly unending amounts of time.  I could have crap constantly breaking in my house and I could overpay incompetent repairmen to fix them.  I could lose every year in my fantasy football league.... to girls.  
  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable.

     

    While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

    <3

  • MeriliremMerilirem Port AugustaPosts: 77Member
    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    This is currently my biggest problem with the genre. We have virtual worlds to play in, but they design them so that EVERYTHING revolves around combat. I'd like for non-combat to be more profitable. While it's possible to focus on non-combat stuff, Eve is really the only game that makes it somewhat viable. They all suffer from the same problem where the final product sells for less than the base materials, due to the top-end inflation. I wish there was an easy way to fix that.

     

    This and indeed everything I say is only my best of thoughts on the matter.
    That's actually a really easy one to fix. Just make an npc shopkeep who sells materials at the correct value for players to be able to perform their crafts. Sure the miners and woodcutters would have to undercut th merchant npc to make profit, but thats not as bad as it sounds. Of course I could be missing a really huge problem with that, but as long as it's done right, with multiple vendors scattered in logical locations and some other minor tweaks to pricing from time to tim based on market research, everyone should be happy.

    Oh I almost forgot a key point. It needs to take skill and effort to make an item. Going to a location and clicking some buttons then waiting for your character to finish is beyond ridiculous. It should be a mini game of varying difficulty that decides how successful you are. If you suck bad enough you don't even make things, just waste materials. On the other hand if your extremely good you level quicker, make better gear and get special formulas which your character figured out while he worked. No matter what, it would take time. An epic weapon to hold your name in history would take days if not weeks to complete. While making a simple sword would take the equivalent time as it would in real life.

    If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?

    Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?

    If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?

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