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How Many People Actually Have the Time for a True Sandbox?

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  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,607Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fishmitts
    Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  
     Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.

    But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes. Now lets just theres no probl....


    and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week.


    Sorry, but sandbox.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by fat_taddler

    My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

    Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

    Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

    I haven't felt any manner of time pressure in any sandbox-style MMO that I've played. I end up leaving themeparks because of the time commitment that endgame requires since there's always only one path (murderous maniac) and the msot common end is raiding. Any game can have content that requires serious time commitments, but the sandbox-style games seem to offer me a wider array of things to do.

    I just hate that there is only 1 serious contender in the sandbox play space right now (EvE)- and though it should be a perfect fit for me - the game bores me to tears and I absolutely hate the advancement system.

    I gave the game months of my time and never really felt like I accomplished anything...

    Where as the most fun and amazing sandbox MMO I ever played (UO) I played for years and it was fun straight out the gate and continued to be fun for years...

    I'm really hopeful that AA will bridge the gap and be a modern AAA sandbox (sandpark or themebox?) that is actually high quality and fun right away - but I worry the progression will be too grindy and rely too much on pointless throw away quests.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

    theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

    complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

    Word.

    UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).

    EXACTLY.

     

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    It all depends on how the game is built.  If the game doesn't require large blocks of time in one sitting then all should be well.  It doesn't matter how long overall it takes to complete a goal unless you're the impatient type.

    Personally, I like games that I know will take a long long time as long as I can play in small increments.  That's why Eve was perfect for my play style.

     

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member

    Freedom in a sandbox game certainly doesn't have to mean everything takes forever to do.

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Eh, I think it depends more on the players need in the time they have to play. A good indication would be if they play Minecraft. Millions of people have time to play that and I assume a good percentage are casual.

    Do I have time? If it was a good enough game I would.
  • firefly2003firefly2003 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2,555Member
    I work full time and go to school as well and I still can make time for MMOs so yea I can handle a full fledged sandbox MMO if developed properly :)

    image

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by Angier2758
    VG's population issue is partly the players themselves.  Lots of big egos for such a limited population; you'd think they'd be kinder.

    Rubbish, i've played for nearly six years and Vanguards community is very welcoming.

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon

    In some ways that's a tough question.

    I would make more time for a game if I loved it. I set aside a LOT of time for Lineage 2 when I was playing.

    I also want an extremely long leveling curve. However, I dont' know if I actually have the time that I used to have.

    Having said that, I don't have (or want) a family and once I finish my work I have my time to use for myself. But I also like to socialize with friends, hang with my girlfriend, do things in the city, etc.

    My thought is that if it's a good sandbox I will want to play, even though i'm a bit behind in the leveling curve.

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Lampasas, TXPosts: 614Member Uncommon

    Either you're grinding mobs, grinding quests, grinding dungeons, or grinding PvP.  Regardless of the wrapping, you're performing some repetitive function to acquire XP so you can get that extra skill point or hit that desired level.

    It doesn't matter if the game is Sandbox or Themepark.  What matters is the enjoyment. 

    Thempark games get boring because you have to do the same quests from Point A to Point B.  That means if you like alts, you have to do it again.

    Generally speaking, since the last Sandbox game I played was EQ, Sandbox games get boring because you have to kill the same mobs over and over.  Sure, you can tackle different areas, but eventually players will find "that spot" that provides the most efficient access to loot and mobs.  AKA camps.  Also, generally speaking, mobs will have a set amount of XP.  So with slow "pulls" it will seem grindy.  The best way around this?  XP Chains

    There is no right or wrong answer.  Either you like Sandbox or you don't.  Either you like Themepark, or you don't.

    IMHO of course, Sandbox is much more enjoyable in the long run.  Themepark is ok the first go around, but the same ride gets old...quickly.

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: League of Legends, EQ1 (Ragefire Lockjaw), Dark Souls II, Hearthstone
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall!!!

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

    theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

    complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

    But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

    Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

    There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Lampasas, TXPosts: 614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

    theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

    complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

    But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

    Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

    There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

    Eventually you will roll something else, but you can always twink! (30 Rogue in a level 39+ zone soloing Frost Giants)

    For the most part, I agree.  There is a lot more replayability, in my eyes, in a Sandbox than there is in a Themepark game.  Ouf course, having something to shoot for beyond cap is what is needed.  I think that is what makes EQ and EQ2 so enjoyable...Alternate Advancement.  So even at cap, you have something to look forward to.

    Of course, I haven't played EQ in like 5 or 6 years, so I'm not sure what I would do if I had a more modern Sandbox to play with.

     

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: League of Legends, EQ1 (Ragefire Lockjaw), Dark Souls II, Hearthstone
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall!!!

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

    theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

    complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

    But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

    Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

    There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

     My capitalist rant of the day:

    "You", and I speak of the "us" in your statement, represent a small minority of the genera. I know this because the isn't a game designed for "you", your words. If "you" were a bigger group, "you" would have garnered the attention of the developers, since devolpers only want money.(This also answers the question of "why do developers constant make 'WoW Clones'?"

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,180Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fat_taddler

    My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

    Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

    Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

     

     one of the great things about sandbox games is you and your buddies who dont have alot of time can play together and have fun doing what ever you want durring the time you have.

    you dont have to sit there and figure out what quest each of you have and worry about being able to do a quest together because in a sandbox game the quest is what ever you make it.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Its an entertainment product, pretty sure there will be people that will make the time.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • IczerIczer Jita, MIPosts: 109Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).

    Wrrrrooonnnngggggg .... UO consumed the better part of 5 or so years of my life ... and it was the best 5 years of virtual life I've spent online out of them all.

    Seriously tho, I also never felt time pressured to spend oodles and oodles of time in the sandbox games I liked (UO, Shadowbane). I did, however, spend a lot of time in them becuase they were freeking fun and I spent far to much time at work planning out what I wanted to do when I got in game that evening.

    I could explore part of the map I havent been to before or hit one fo the dungeons with some friends that I knew was a real pain to get deep into (but fun the whole time), or go hunting enemy faction players (Order/Chaos in UO), or spend some time on my bard farming monsters at whatever spot I choose to pick that day. The possibilities were endless but out of all of those things I think the one thing I enjoyed the most in UO was just hanging out with my friends in one of our houses in game and meeting / dealing with the random people that would happen by. Some would be looking to attack you so some house fighting would ensue and others just wanted information or to say hi and chat.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Roguewiz

    Either you're grinding mobs, grinding quests, grinding dungeons, or grinding PvP.  Regardless of the wrapping, you're performing some repetitive function to acquire XP so you can get that extra skill point or hit that desired level.

    I disagree with this.

    Sometimes grinding mobs had nothing to do with xp at all. Some people use to grind mobs to get a rare drop that was an ingredient to build an awesome sword or spellbook for example. It was rewarding.

    Now, you grind dungeons for tokens to turn to a vendor and everyone has the same exact setup.

    And pvp, there was no grind. You wore the same gear that you obtained from PVE. PvP meant something. Like fighting for control of a zone, dungeon, resource nodes, etc. Now it's well, I don't know the point of PVP now, bragging rights for winning an arena match? It's predictable and scripted fights in a little room with 3rd party macros telling me what button to push and when. Circle strife each other while spamming CCs until someone hits the wrong hotkey and loses the match. Big deal.

    I just don't see the accomplishment and reward for having the same skills in my toolbar and the same set of armor as the 1000s of other same class players in the hub city waiting for a que to pop.

    I want to put in effort to be different and better. I can't do that in a themepark.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • FishmittsFishmitts doylestown, PAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Fishmitts

    Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  
     Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.
    But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes. Now lets just theres no probl....

     


    and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week.


    Sorry, but sandbox.

     There's your problem.. Never ever EVER go AFK in a perma-death full loot sandbox. Thats just asking for trouble.. I always log out in DAYZ, even if its just to use the bathroom.

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    There will always be the younger generations, that have time to play... patience on the other hand....

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

    theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

    complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

    But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

    Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

    There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

     My capitalist rant of the day:

    "You", and I speak of the "us" in your statement, represent a small minority of the genera. I know this because the isn't a game designed for "you", your words. If "you" were a bigger group, "you" would have garnered the attention of the developers, since devolpers only want money.(This also answers the question of "why do developers constant make 'WoW Clones'?"

    I agree. I don't like it though.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon
    When a true sandbox comes out I will find the time.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Roguewiz
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

    theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

    complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

    But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

    Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

    There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

    Eventually you will roll something else, but you can always twink! (30 Rogue in a level 39+ zone soloing Frost Giants)

    For the most part, I agree.  There is a lot more replayability, in my eyes, in a Sandbox than there is in a Themepark game.  Ouf course, having something to shoot for beyond cap is what is needed.  I think that is what makes EQ and EQ2 so enjoyable...Alternate Advancement.  So even at cap, you have something to look forward to.

    Of course, I haven't played EQ in like 5 or 6 years, so I'm not sure what I would do if I had a more modern Sandbox to play with.

     

    True.

    I have to admit, in AO, I was addicted to rolling alts for twinking. That mechanic was just too amazing IMO.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member
    I fail to understand the premise of this thread. The OP is implying that sandbox games are more time consuming than themeparks by design but that isn't true. If anything the sandbox style actually puts less pressure on the player to race through the game as there's no linear progression.
  • shirlntshirlnt Houston, TXPosts: 355Member

    In my experience, a sandbox game takes less play time than a completely themepark game.  Let me compare SWG (pre-cu/pre players having levels) and WoW.  In SWG, if i had 30 minutes to an hour to play, I could work on entertainment profession or I could craft for a bit, or I could run some missions from a terminal.  Running missions out of terminal in my guild city was the easiest way to fill in a short amount of time.  I would choose a couple of nearby missions, take care of them, and come back to town.  I didn't have to worry about losing track of time and playing for longer than intended.  I played SWG on a regular basis but, if I hadn't, missing playing time wasn't a big deal as I didn't have to worry about the people I played with outleveling me while I was away.

    In WoW, I had very little control over the location of the quest givers and the quest locations.  If I'd finished all the quest in my current location or had outleveled the area, I would have to spend time traveling to an area that matched my level and/or had available quests.  After getting the quest, I might have to travel again to get to the location of the quest.  It was easier to lose track of time trying to "get to a good stopping point."  Also, if I had people I wanted to do quest with in WoW, either person not  playing at the same time, for the same amount of time, could quickly become an issue.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,607Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fishmitts
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by Fishmitts Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  
     Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.
    But since its a sandbox there is no quick travel so you have to run to that stupid wall yourself which will take about 30 minutes. Now lets just theres no probl....   and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week. Sorry, but sandbox.
     There's your problem.. Never ever EVER go AFK in a perma-death full loot sandbox. Thats just asking for trouble.. I always log out in DAYZ, even if its just to use the bathroom.

    "Sorry, I know you have a boo boo but daddy has to log out of this video game first."


    Maybe "hardcore" is the problem. Too many sandbox fans expect sandbox MMOs to be these hardcore life consuming virtual worlds and anything less would be a dumbed down casual single player game for carebears.

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