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It would have been better to charge for about 2 planets at a time, and made level 15 / up until Corusant) like the trial was, and paid to unlock ship although that would come with the 2 planets that came after the ship. Locking out elements of the UI, restrciting XP and quest rewards, is just dumb. Then when they added in Makeb tagged it to the end
Also the weekly passes is just milking it, other MMOs just unlock it and then need not purchase again. Because I have no intentions on constantly buying the passes, as may not get to play enough in the week, I see no point in buying these passes even once.
It makes the game not very playable the way they have done it
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Originally posted by superniceguy It would have been better to charge for about 2 planets at a time, and made level 15 / up until Corusant) like the trial was, and paid to unlock ship although that would come with the 2 planets that came after the ship. Locking out elements of the UI, restrciting XP and quest rewards, is just dumb. Then when they added in Makeb tagged it to the end Also the weekly passes is just milking it, other MMOs just unlock it and then need not purchase again. It makes the game not very playable the way they have done it
That version is very much like what some games are doing with their "extended trials"
Warhammer online has the empire and Chaos zones for free, level as many characters as you want up to level 10
Rift has the first zones for free, roughly lvl 20. but If I remember correctly you only get 2 character slots.
Locking the UI elements do not bother me. I paid for my game so much of my UI is unlocked, and it really is cheep to get prefered status. Restricting exp, again I have no issue most games that are on the market nowaday level you to fast I feel like I'm being pushed out of zones many times. Well I know that in STO if you are not a sub you get restricted quest/level achievment rewards, other games do it, wonder why it is such an issue in SWTOR.
Makeb is a pain I agree there. I wish it could have been purchased as part of the Cartel shop. That way not only are you purchasing the expansion, but you are recieving prefered status as an added bonus. I would have been more acceptable of the "no longer free" approach.
Sadly the game that they have given you, the one they said they are giving you is completely playable. it is all the extras that people seem to think they are entitled to that make people complain.
Originally posted by mrrshann618 Well I know that in STO if you are not a sub you get restricted quest/level achievment rewards, other games do it, wonder why it is such an issue in SWTOR.
I haven't noticed any restrictions on STO, and I have played it loads with one Lifetime account and one free account.
I've had problem purchasing certain ship packs as a f2p, even though I have enough zen I cannot purchase the REALLY big ships for either Fed or Klingon (this was before the requirement of a fleet module).
There were several advancement rewards that you only got 1 of insead of 2. As a f2p I recieved no skill respecs even though you are to get several as a sub. Log on with you f2p account and take a look. You will see a definate "gimp" of rewards that you get for simply being f2p.
Originally posted by mrrshann618 I've had problem purchasing certain ship packs as a f2p, even though I have enough zen I cannot purchase the REALLY big ships for either Fed or Klingon (this was before the requirement of a fleet module). There were several advancement rewards that you only got 1 of insead of 2. As a f2p I recieved no skill respecs even though you are to get several as a sub. Log on with you f2p account and take a look. You will see a definate "gimp" of rewards that you get for simply being f2p.
Nothing really worthwhile to worry about there, as you can get it from the store if you want, but each and every quest in SWTOR you do not get the rewards, and a message pops up saying you need to be a sub to get it. All quest rewards in STO you get, even the special limited time rewards in the episode re-runs currently on.
Originally posted by KarteliAre players really going to jump in and start playing SWTOR just to use the cash-shop? EA seems so far removed from what players want.
people only looking to play a free game is not their target when it comes to the cartel market.
there are people who actually do subscribe to this game and are willing to spend money on it.
those are the people that they are hoping will spend the money in the cartel market.
the F2P model was implemented to bring players in who only want to play a free game in hopes to force them to sub by having so many restrictions on the game.
its really quite simple to see what they are trying to do and it seems to be working.
Originally posted by baphamet Originally posted by Karteli Are players really going to jump in and start playing SWTOR just to use the cash-shop? EA seems so far removed from what players want.
oh yes,,they know their customers by now
perhaps they are making a little on F2P unlocks, but most comes from the hardcore fans
and some of them still go for it ,,at least for now
EA for Christmas: release I whole heap of useless stuff on cash shop that is not on discount and doesn't even really make your toon look better
SOE for Christmas: Triple station cash discount on the friday 21st of Dec, on top of double xp for the entire period Christmas until new years holidays.
It is only a month and a half since F2P. I do not see that many people constantly keep chucking money on the game when content and updates just gets slower and slower, unless they have not played a MMO before and do not know what to expect. SWTOR is getting updated slower than single player games.
This is the only reason why I am not investing time and money into it, because I do not feel the game is worth it, for what the EA/BW are doing with it. They are the ones stating it is a MMO, but it is not being worked on like one. The game needs to be B2P, or should have been a single player game with multiplayer options, and be released for consoles too, with regular DLC like Mass Effect. Paying a monthly fee to Mass Effect would be outrageous, and the same goes for SWTOR
Is it still getting them $7.5 million per month which is what they say is neeed to break even? My guess is the current players are not meeting this still, and they are just taking what ever money they can get to make back the cost of the game. Unless NEW content comes fast in 2013, which so far is not looking like it as even Makeb which was announced in June 2012 (and the space project was mentioned about then or before that too) for a 2012 release, will not be in game until Spring / June 2013, I do not see the game lasting into 2014. They probably took a 2 year contract on the licence, and will be up for renewal within the year, and if they do not get enough to pay for it, then they will have to shut it down.
They should have gone for people wanting to play a free game, as those willing to put money on the game would do so no matter what anyway, but it would have made people get into the game more.
In STO that is mostly free, and other than a couple of months subbing on my free account, I managed to get to max level without spending much at all, and now I am involved with the game. SWTOR is better crafted game than STO, but STO is great and better than SWTOR because 1) It has a way better space game 2) It is more free 3) Has more game features 4) Perfect World are doing more for the game than BW/EA are, and is making more profit even if not getting enough money as SWTOR as does not have a $7.5 million monthly target and has a healthy looking future.
At a month and a half MOST games stull sucked eggs when converting to a f2p stance as they are still ironing out bugs.
Everyone seems to be confusing the f2p that they are offering with something more than they are really offereing. I'm sorry to say this to all you deluded masses the delivered EXACTLY what they promised. They flatly said we are going to offer you the story to try out our game.
The warzones are bonus, The flashboints are bonus, being able to wear epic gear so you can be "uber" is a bonus. You can complete all aspects of the game wearing greens. YOU DO NOT NEED SUPER UBER COOL GEAR to actually play that is your own shortcommings when it comes to playstyle. I'm sorry that everyone NEEDS to be in purples becuase they cannot actually play unless they can "best" the computer AI with over the top stats for things the same level.
I played vanilla wow with greens on till 50. Was able to do it just fine with the exception of the snotty eliteists who needed a frelling gear score.
Cash shops, ALL CASH SHOPS FOR EVERY GAME, are a blatant siphoning of money if you think they care about where that money comes from you live in the world of rose tinted glasses when looking at your favorite game. No one has to agree with the model, no one is forcing you to play. so Why is it in just about every single thread there are people who come in here and berate the companies choice over and over and over. Do they feel they NEED to bring about the demise of the company. If the play model is as bad as they say it is they obviously do not need any help.
SoE f2p model is not the light in the darkness.
Perfect Worlds f2p model is not the light in the darkness.
Turbines f2p is not the light in the darkness.
All of their cash shops are aimed at one thing, to part you from your money. just becuase they give you a warm fuzzy glow does not mean they are any better. Holiday events are nothing as well. I, and I'm sure many others, have not logged into a game specifically for a holiday event. Mind you there are people who religiously do, that is their own cup of tea.
Superniceguy, you constantly say that you do not play. Are you an analyst? or do you single out SWTOR? Havn't you noticed that content acroos the board, in most games, are comming slower and slower at this time. Why is that? possibly becuase many companies are working on new projects? many studios are not huge gigantic studios like Blizzard. How long was it between "content upgrades" on STO? 6 months apart roughly? I've played STO since around season 5. Overall nothing huge has changed. in Rift Terms each season is tiny compared to say Ember isle. By your avatar you are an obvious SWTOR hater and "obviously" nothing is going to change that.
Let people spend money where they want, not where you (just just singling out superniceguy) want. If people want to spend it on FE, or GW2, or Rift, Let them. why do people feel the need to make themselves bigger becuase "someone invested in a worthless game".
In order for a game to grow, there needs to be investment. In order for a game to advance, there needs to be investment. In order for a game to improve, there needs to be investment. Speed is only an issue if you WANT to make it one. Wow's First true investment was Burning Crusade, that was announced in 2005, and released in 2007, bet you it was in development far longer than when it was first announced. That seems to me far longer than many of the modern release schedules. People need to grow up, stop being content locusts, appreciate everything about a game. As other posts/threads are pointing out, in order for content to be developed properly the company needs to know what to develop. no company wants to spend a year on development to find out that people hate it (like cataclysm).
So why is development slow? easy In a consumer atmosphere and economic climate that is currently in place, not many companies can throw money away on a flop release. "Fresh new content" means crap if that contant is not properly in place. Money and time is lost on a crap release, both of which are "to expensive" currently. So why are companies bleeding cash shops? easy it is effortless revenue so they can either A) cut and run (and no company is above this, EA cannot be singled out here) or used to produce new content that may take a while.
Originally posted by ShakyMo EA don't support their mmos. All this money you pay in a cash shop just goes to get back their investment, it will never manifest itself as a cool as duck must buy expansion. Expect expansions to be along the lines if what they did with warhammer, more things to buy In the cash shop, additional levels to grind with out actual real content forcing you to pay or you get left behind, removal of features they can't be arsed to make work - ilum in swtor, forts in war. This is the ea way.
I'm surprised people are STILL defending the EA SWTOR model of F2P. There are right and wrong ways to implement F2P people, and EA is doing it in one of the worst ways. The whole point of the F2P model (and why it actually works for a lot of games), is that you aren't paying to play the game, but rather paying for convenience / cosmetics. Putting caps on literally everything in the game from the UI, to battlegrounds is a horrible way to have the F2P model. Even some of the most notorious F2P games don't have such blatant restrictions.
I don't think anyone wishes ill of Bioware employees, but supporting such business models is bad for everyone.
Originally posted by Darklighter1 [mod edit]
The game already has failed, they have switched the game to F2P, laid off staff already and the founders have left Bioware and the gaming industry all together, something no one would do on any kind of success.
But if you mean fail as in shut down ...
Anyone working on the game will either move on out of EA/BW if they have any sense, or EA/Bioware will put existing employees to another game, should it get shut down, as that is what happened when SWG shut down, SOE devs, forums mods, staff now work on other games.
I do not want the game to shut down, but all the lack of attention EA/BW is putting into the game is signs that it will not last long, and what is the point in spending time/money on a game that is not going to last? Already done it with SWG and COH, and not getting shafted again, and I do not want anyone else suffering the same anguish. If people are enjoying the game, and spending money on it as they enjoy it even though it may shut down later this year then fair enough, but if they think it is going to last for years, and their money is going to towards supporting the game, then they need to be aware that it might not be, due to the games unique heavy running costs, which no other MMO is burdened with.
If content was coming thick and fast as it has been doing in EVERY single other MMO released in the last 10 years or so, even after just being turned into F2P, they still kept the content coming, PLUS they state that the game need $7.5 million per month to break even, and that its current state was "not good enough", then I would play this game even if all servers were dead. The servers are not dead, and apprently they are raking it in, but still content gets held off until Spring 2013 instead of being in now, when it should and could be.
Originally posted by ShakyMo For the record, I don't thinly it will shut down. It IS in maintainance mode though, and will stay this way. Again this is how ea work, once they make a mmo they consider it done, you'll never see ea pumping out monthly content patches even if they had a successful mmo. Also don't be suprised to see the same people in charge on the next mmo, ea seem to use the peter principle - I mean Jeff hickman case in point
It all depends on the SW licence. and how much of a profit it is getting.
If the game costs millions to develop, I would imagine that EA would have bought a short term licence inititally, and then planned to buy a longer one with the profits.
If it was not for the licence SWG would have kept running too, as SOE wanted to keep the game running, but the devs working on SWG were awesome, they worked on the game in their own time and in the middle of the night, they were told many times to go to bed by forum posters. I am not seeing EA/BW being so enthusiastic, and they have not been so far.
I would have thought they would have had some stuff in the pipepline after 6 months, even it it was not due until the end of the year, but as there has been nothing, it is not a good sign
Originally posted by colddog04 [mod edit]
I love this, essentially what you are saying is that what I find enjoyable is wrong.
If I go to a racetrack and spend money knowing full well I can lose, does that deminish my fun? NOPE I'm willingly going there to dop whatever. I do not expect you to sit and berrate me for that choice. Just becuase 1 race track pays out dividends or handles bets a certain way does not mean all tracks should do the same.
I'm currently playing the swtor f2p as they have dictated. I haven't spent a dime since f2p. It doesn't mean I cannot enjoy a free game. f2p model is a stopgap, but I can enjoy a game no matter the f2p model. EQ2's f2p (with no unlocks) at my glance for the time I tried is just as restrictive if not more so. How I boycot their model, I do not play, I do not go into the EQ boards and spout how you all need to wake up and stop supporting EQ. You want to spend money on that "sub-par" game (imho) then you are frree to do so. I'm not going to call your game crap becuase I do not enjoy it. I'm going to let you play.
That is all I've ever asked for. That is all I've ever actually defended.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins I have an idea. Just stop playing and paying attention to what they do with the game. I've done that with LOTRO and have been much happier that way. There's nothing that Turbine can do at this point to bother or interest me. The same goes for EA and SWTOR and Funcom and AoC. Funcom lost a lot of potential customers for TSW thanks to their AoC launch fiasco. I expect the same affect for EA and Turbine as well.
I feel quite similar; I have stopped playing MMO's for the time being because they all just end up feeling boring. I have TSW, GW2, and LotRO installed and no urge to play any of them very much at all anymore. I had SWTOR installed, but I tried it when it first came out and came back to try the F2P and uninstalled it for the last time. I have been playing the other MMO's on and off very little; I just watch them now to see how they continue to develop and hope a good sandbox MMO comes out. ArcheAge or The Repopulation maybe...nothing else really looks that interesting.
Originally posted by mrrshann618 Originally posted by colddog04 The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable. Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
That is not how I read it.
Liking a game and paying and playing it is one thing, but defending it when it is obvioulsty bad is something else. I rarely visited these forums when i played SWG to try and defend it - it was a lost cause, as I understood why people did not like it, but I did.
We post our issues with the game, in case these things can be fixed, and what would be nice if the "defenders" would acknowledge our issues, and pass on our issues to EA/Bw on the official forums saying something like "I like what you do, and I am going to pay and play SWTOR no matter what, but if you did <insert our complaints> then I know others wouild come and play too" but no, all we get is "There is nothing wrong with the game at all, and all you haters can just get lost"
This is a MMO, that has the ability to change at the hands of BW/EA devs, through feedback, not a single player game that generally does not get updated, with the excepttion of the Mass Effect 3 ending.
The thing is that people are attacking the f2p model because it is to restrictive. However they are giving exactly what they said they were going to give. To log into a game, full knowing what you are going to get, full knowing how restrictive it is, and then bitching that it is to restrictive is cutting off the nose to spite the face.
In this sense am I defending the company, YES, but because they are giving you the product as they said they would, nothing more. I'm defending it becuase they sold you the car without the wheels after they told you the wheels were not included. How can you get mad at the company when the individual was the one who didn't want to understand for whatever reason.
One of my first (bad) experiences in an MMO was to have someone look at my gear and tell me I was playing wrong. How can you play wrong? if you are having fun, who cares if it is not the FotM.
colddog04 stated that since I play, I don't hate, Since I do not hate, I defend, Since I defend, I support, Since I support I'm what's wrong with the industry. I do take offense at that because you are telling me that my choices are wrong, even though they are opinnion.
Let me tell you a little story. A bunch of friends and I went to see Godzilla when it came out. They were all excited to go see it and I could have cared less. They thought the movies was absolute crap, their expectation was set to high. I thought the move was entertaining and not bad at all, my expectations were far lower. I didn't look at cinematic angles while they did. I didn't look at the budget towards the movie, but they did. Moral of the story. Just because the hype states AAA quality it is still down to personal opinnion and expectations.
I enjoy SWTOR for what it is. I wasn't expecting SWG2, I wasn't expecting a WoW killer, I wasn't expecting the newest invoation in creating slushies, and I was not dissapointed. I understood the f2p model, again not disapointed. To me it isn't a BAD game, no matter how many people say it is. I do not care about what the media says, most of them are jaded or slanted in one way or the other so there is hardly any real opinnion. For every defense, I can find an attack. For every stellar review I can find one that states it is donkey manure.
I do acknowledge you issues, and most I dismiss, and give reasons why. I'm sorry that people cannot accept my dismissials for what I state they are "PERSONAL OPINNION"
Gear coloring issues - personal preferance
2 UI bars - not an issue it is 2 active not 2 total. There are ways around it, I'm sorry you do not WANT to utilize those ways around becuase you have to have it YOUR way.
Can't have uber gear - once again gear does not effect the f2p model as it can all be done with basic stuff. only personal prefereance involved.
For all the personal preferances there is a solution, spend money. You do not have to, it is a CHOICE, just becuase it was not handed to you for free, well they never said they were going to. I've stated my opinnion about cash shops. The issues that are cropping up due to f2p is all personal, and they have a solution, just because you do not like the solution is your problem.
If you do not like the game, the people comming in these threads and attacking them obviously don't, have stated many times: I'm never going to play, I uninstalled in 20 min, EA will NEVER fix this, Why bother voicing your concerns? you have already stated your NEVER comming back, obviously never is a finite time frame becuase you all give suggestions about what needs to be fixed in order for you to come back. It doesn't seem to matter if it going to be fixed or not, becuase they haven't given you thier 5 year plan, you are not comming back.
Since you are all "not comming" back, let the people who understood what their f2p was offering have fun while it lasts.
yea i still have scars from vicious fanboi bites, from when i got on swtor forums to complain about bugged
storyline bosses,,that was 2 days after prelaunch
gotta love the classic "dont like it? go back to wow",,apparently a lot of people did that
and how did that help swtor?
Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist. Seriously, play the game...or don't. Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs? You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry. Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
The more that people like you defend these shysters, the less likely they are to be held accountable.
Supporters like you are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
/fist beat chest, then held in air
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by Darklighter1 I'll never understand why posts like this exist. Seriously, play the game...or don't. Wishing the game fails......people lose their jobs? You claim this game is what's wrong with the MMO industry. Hate mongers like you people are what is wrong with the MMO industry. Get over it and move along to a game you ENJOY.
It mattered to SOE, most of what was said on the forums was listened to, and chnaged accordingly. They did not see the point of camps but they brought it back nonetheless.
You are probably right though with EA, but it does not help when you get people blindly defending the crap going on with the game, and it turns into arguments.
Originally posted by mrrshann618 The thing is that people are attacking the f2p model because it is to restrictive. However they are giving exactly what they said they were going to give. To log into a game, full knowing what you are going to get, full knowing how restrictive it is, and then bitching that it is to restrictive is cutting off the nose to spite the face.
No they have not given exactly what they said they were going to give, nothing is expected of it, and they have been tweaking it accordingly, so say because of peoples feedback.
Iniititially it had only 2 UI bars, now it has 4. It only had 2 char slots, and soon will have 6 and be unlockable but how can anyone atm play the game when they can not create more chars? They can't unless create more accounts but then those chars will not benefit from the "awesome" legacy system. So SWTORs F2P system is not exactly what it is said to be yet.
The extra char slots should have been worked on before putting in the stupid Life Day items