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When did it become OK to charge $30 - $50 for a month of premium in F2P?

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  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

    I'm seeing F2P game after F2P game price gouge the fuck out of "premium services" and "boosters," sometimes for double or tripple the cost of what it would take for a monthly subscription to a P2P game .... when did this becoime ok to do?

     F2P games dont have premium services. FREEMIUM games do. F2P games are Free, freemiums are a joke and you SHOULD be gouged for taking part in them. Any game that sets up a player based class system, subs = upper class, those that buy = middle class, those playing free = lower class...they are only going to fleece you. You dont deserve to keep your money for falling for it.

    The game wasnt good enough for a subscription for 100% of the game, if you are going to shell out money for smaller parts of it...lol. I dont feel sorry for you one bit.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,216Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    You sound like you don't play any mmo that's f2p? I would like to know exactly what mmo ISN'T f2p anymore? lol

    WoW? EVE?

    Not many MMOs but the majority of MMO players do pay a sub fee because of WoW's dominance.

    Factually wrong.

    http://www.newzoo.com/press-releases/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

     "Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs." 23M is not  majority. It is a minority out of 50M.

    I stand corrected.

    However, I would dispute their '50M' number but meh, too early in the morning for me. XD

    I'm not putting too much stock in their metrics.  First it's a paywall site so we're not getting all the information.  Second they're focusing on the German and US markets and drawing broad conclusions.  Finally they are lumping a lot of diverse types and payment models together and still drawing specific conclusions.

    Here is a quote: "Many newcomers, drawn in by free-to-play games, are also signing up for triple A paid MMO games like Diablo 3. By increasingly offering free trials and in-game purchases, pay-to-play games are implementing the success factors of free-to-play games."

    So the revenue generated from D3 is being weighted towards the P2P MMO category and that is really the only distinction they seem to make between P2P and F2P.  Thus games like GW2 and TSW would be P2P and put in the same revenue category as WoW and rift.  That may be fine for a stock purchaser but for our discussion(s) here we have more finely grained categories between B2P and P2P (sub based) and F2P.

    That is a problem I have with industry analysts and their conclusions - they are from a different perspective from the gamer and somewhat disconnected.  For investment decisions those generalization might be enough to decide if something is a good investment or not, but for detailed analysis and feeling the pulse on where consumers want to spend their money I don't think it is.

    They did say "The distinction will become harder to make in the future, as business models mix and merge."  which I think is true.  There isn't just P2P/sub, F2P, and B2P now.  There are sub options, lifetime premium status, up front fees (B2P), P2P with micro-transactions, and so on.  The coming years I think will be in finding a balance of how to generate the most revenue from the greatest number of players.  No single "simple" model will provide that.

    I expect some sub fees to increase or to have optional subscription tiers.  I expect to see a great blending of payment models and for this to get more complex and messy than it is now.  We're no longer going to be able to compartmentalize various games into neatly defined revenue categories like we have been.

  • ObiClownobiObiClownobi CoruscantPosts: 186Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

    Is playing them "correctly" playing them for short periods of time then moving on to the next game?

    image
    "It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

    I think they are playing them the way they are accustomed to. Many people aren't used to certain things being held back. True you may be able to complete the game without spending a dime and YOU can enjoy it, but there are others that are feeling like they are being short changed by having to purchase the content THEY will enjoy. Sometimes its in the form of advancements being held back that they require to be competitive in PvP, sometimes its unlocking armour, or the slots for it to be competitive. Sometimes it's even paying to be able to carry more in game currency as you cant save enough to buy things to be competitive!

    So they are playing the game according to their preference, but the thing is, their portion of the game is expensive where as your portion is free. You need these people as they are paying for YOUR portion of the game. If they aren't happy, youll lose your portion too :(

  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon
    Men are willing to pay a sub at a site to watch adult movies ( think my husband is addicted to porn) and you are questioning paying for games . People are willing to pay for things they enjoy and wives who discover have to keep quiet or get accused for snooping but hey do not judge alright so I think this discussion is nuts considering what they are willing to cough up for their entertainment.

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  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Is 30-50 dollars a month really that 'make or break' for people?

    If so, doesn't that person have bigger issues to deal with other than playing video games?

    Coming back to the OP, course it is okay. People will pay whatever they want to get XYZ. As long as people do that out of free-will, this is a basic market transaction.

    I pay $10 for a cup of coffee every morning. Should I complain that it is too expensive cause a cup of coffee in other places are cheaper?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    I've been posting the same thing. You have to pay for everything at higher prices to support entitled leeches, sound familiar?

    Can't wait for the "producers" to go Atlas Shrugged.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    I've been posting the same thing. You have to pay for everything at higher prices to support entitled leeches, sound familiar?

    Can't wait for the "producers" to go Atlas Shrugged.

    Just become a entitled leech. Problem solved.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by cheyane
    Men are willing to pay a sub at a site to watch adult movies ( think my husband is addicted to porn) and you are questioning paying for games . People are willing to pay for things they enjoy and wives who discover have to keep quiet or get accused for snooping but hey do not judge alright so I think this discussion is nuts considering what they are willing to cough up for their entertainment.

    You husband pays for porn? There is so much free porn out there. And luckily my wife don't mind me watching when she is not "available" :P (She got first dips of me .. of course .. hehehhe).

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    I pay $10 for a cup of coffee every morning. Should I complain that it is too expensive cause a cup of coffee in other places are cheaper?

     If you give a rats behind...yes.

    The very idea that a consumer does not have a voice or should not use it is truly amazing...right out of the pre-freedom of speech 1700s before men told their lords they had enough of power being in the hands of the few.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

    What's the correct way?

    Leaving for another game when the people subsidizing your gaming leaves?

    Or leaving for a new game when you reach the point when you have to buy stacks of health potions to continue playing any further?

    It's funny how the loudest supporters never paid a cent towards these games, yet the average player is said to have spent $28 per month (except you of course).

    I'd rather have subs to 2 games for that and access to everything.

    But, don't focus on that. Just explain the "correct" way. I really want to know.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • mikunimanmikuniman Keene, NYPosts: 312Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Why does this surprise people so much?  How many threads and posts have we had from the pro subscription people who said they will pay $20, $30, $50 or even $100 a month to get what they want.  Now you have that opportunity.

    None of my subscription optional or sub-free games cost that much per month.  I pay less than I did with subscription and get more.  I have more gaming options than ever before.  Of all the games I play (GW2, TSW, STO, EQ2, GW1, and LotRO among a few others) only EQ2 has a sub option that approaches that cost and that is if you buy Station Pass which provides access to all their online games.

    If you don't like it and think the company is gouging then don't pay and don't play.  I support the games I like and don't those that I don't.  It's pretty simple.

    It's because unlike you Torvaldr people lack control over their spending when a game goes ftp. Sub based games are still one of the cheapest forms of entertainment and it is peanuts a day. When a game goes ftp people generally end up spending way more then $15 a month then quickly blame it on that payment model. When in reality it's usually just stuff you don't need to play the game but somehow have to have.  Brainwashed are gamers that believe ftp or ptp games are inferior or failed sub games. A game that launches sub based then goes ftp with a cash shop later makes money hand over fist. Loyal gamers usually stay subbed   "premium account"  and end up using the cash shop. Is this bad? no,  choices are always good. FYI folks, pay to win cash shop games are so few and far it's not even worth mentioning so get over it.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by cheyane
    Men are willing to pay a sub at a site to watch adult movies ( think my husband is addicted to porn) and you are questioning paying for games . People are willing to pay for things they enjoy and wives who discover have to keep quiet or get accused for snooping but hey do not judge alright so I think this discussion is nuts considering what they are willing to cough up for their entertainment.

    You need to slap your husband upside his head if he is paying for porn.

    There is so much out there for free it isn't funny.

    ...or so the interwebz told me >_>

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane
    Men are willing to pay a sub at a site to watch adult movies ( think my husband is addicted to porn) and you are questioning paying for games . People are willing to pay for things they enjoy and wives who discover have to keep quiet or get accused for snooping but hey do not judge alright so I think this discussion is nuts considering what they are willing to cough up for their entertainment.

    as somewhat of an expert in the field, I can tell you that amateur kind is the best. You can replace his porn at a fraction of the cost. if you need some tips on how to get started, send me some uncut versions of your early work and i can provide some direction. No charge.

     

    DAMN I LOVE THE INTERNET.e

     

    edit: nothing U18 pls. I don't feel like showering with Big Bubba this year.

    image

  • jamigrejamigre New York, NYPosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

    I'm seeing F2P game after F2P game price gouge the fuck out of "premium services" and "boosters," sometimes for double or tripple the cost of what it would take for a monthly subscription to a P2P game .... when did this becoime ok to do?

     

    I guess this is the victory lap F2P beating P2P or something: now that F2P has is clearly winning the battle VS P2P it dosen't have to keep competitive on comparable subscriptions pricing.

     

    [mod edit]: the whole reason F2P took off was because it was more accessible and affordable than P2P, shit gets too bad people will just shift back in the other direction ... espacally if going B2P works out for TSW and western P2P holdouts realise that there are other options to stay competitive.

    Its priced at what the market is willing to accept, if people want to pay $200 a month, let them. It's ok. 

    -------
    Check out http://partyupgamer.com - and meet people you actually want to play with.
    -------

  • angus858angus858 Mechanicsburg, PAPosts: 353Member
    Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

     

    [mod edit]: the whole reason F2P took off was because it was more accessible and affordable than P2P, shit gets too bad people will just shift back in the other direction ... espacally if going B2P works out for TSW and western P2P holdouts realise that there are other options to stay competitive.

    No.  Game companies went to F2P because they make more money from cash shops than they did from monthly subs. 

     

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cheyane
    Men are willing to pay a sub at a site to watch adult movies ( think my husband is addicted to porn) and you are questioning paying for games . People are willing to pay for things they enjoy and wives who discover have to keep quiet or get accused for snooping but hey do not judge alright so I think this discussion is nuts considering what they are willing to cough up for their entertainment.

    Which has always been my point. These games are just one aspect of entertainment.  They are a hobby to me. I have no problem with spending money on my hobbies.  I suspect that many of the problems we are looking at are differences in definitions.  It wouldn't be the first time that sloppy definitions have caused problems.

    F2P is simply one possible business model.  This entire operation is about making a profit, off of ones investment of time/talent and money.  Way too many people forget an OLD saying; "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch".  (TANSTAAFL).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

    Its interesting that you mention your above. Both are selling intangibles, but make billions per year any way.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by angus858
    Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

     

    [mod edit]: the whole reason F2P took off was because it was more accessible and affordable than P2P, shit gets too bad people will just shift back in the other direction ... espacally if going B2P works out for TSW and western P2P holdouts realise that there are other options to stay competitive.

    No.  Game companies went to F2P because they make more money from cash shops than they did from monthly subs. 

     

    Some do, some don't.  It depends on the culture, and the basic assumptions and perceptions involved.  F2P is insanely profitable over in some Asian countries.  Of course, when other business types over here see that, they want a piece of that sweet pie.

    This is all about making the best Return On Investment, thats possible after all.  But some have gone about it the wrong way, and thus alienated some of the current market.  Its long been known that marketing is about managing peoples perceptions and expectations. Some do a better job of that, than others.  With consequences for the over all market sector.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

    What's the correct way?

    Leaving for another game when the people subsidizing your gaming leaves?

    Or leaving for a new game when you reach the point when you have to buy stacks of health potions to continue playing any further?

    It's funny how the loudest supporters never paid a cent towards these games, yet the average player is said to have spent $28 per month (except you of course).

    I'd rather have subs to 2 games for that and access to everything.

    But, don't focus on that. Just explain the "correct" way. I really want to know.

    You just state it .. when the game stops being fun (either no one else is paying, or run out of free content) .. leave for another game. It is not like there is a shortage of F2P games.

    In fact, it is the opposite. I have been enjoying STO .. i have hardly scratched the surface of free content. I have only up to L10, with two ships, and still on the first season of missions. It will be at least months (assuming i play more instead of on and off) before i get thorugh with this game. And there are many many more. So yeah .... F2P will never cost me a cent.

    And btw, research shows a MAJORITY of players don't pay a cent in MMOs. The link is posted in this and other thread.

    And so .. yeah .. i am one of the majority who enjoy F2P games for free.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

    What's the correct way?

    Leaving for another game when the people subsidizing your gaming leaves?

    Or leaving for a new game when you reach the point when you have to buy stacks of health potions to continue playing any further?

    It's funny how the loudest supporters never paid a cent towards these games, yet the average player is said to have spent $28 per month (except you of course).

    I'd rather have subs to 2 games for that and access to everything.

    But, don't focus on that. Just explain the "correct" way. I really want to know.

    You just state it .. when the game stops being fun (either no one else is paying, or run out of free content) .. leave for another game. It is not like there is a shortage of F2P games.

    In fact, it is the opposite. I have been enjoying STO .. i have hardly scratched the surface of free content. I have only up to L10, with two ships, and still on the first season of missions. It will be at least months (assuming i play more instead of on and off) before i get thorugh with this game. And there are many many more. So yeah .... F2P will never cost me a cent.

    And btw, research shows a MAJORITY of players don't pay a cent in MMOs. The link is posted in this and other thread.

    And so .. yeah .. i am one of the majority who enjoy F2P games for free.

    That's your claim to glory? Being a second-class nomad? This F2P trend is going places.

    That's pretty sad.

    It's like MMO welfare and I'm a competitive gamer paying increasing cash shop prices to subsidize your existence.

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • SidraketSidraket merced, CAPosts: 79Member

    there have always been free to play games like this. this is the reason most pro-subscription people are pro-subscription (that and free to play games usually having even worse communities than standard mmo communities).

    Its actually gotten better in recent years, there are more and more reasonable free to play games out there now. I used to be adamantly anti-f2p but for this reason im more open to checking them out now, still not found any worth playing long term, but ive not played any of the old subscription-gone-f2p games since theyve gone f2p

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    "Free" to Play games are too expensive, I can only afford subscription based MMOs

    You are not playing them "correctly". F2P never costs me a cent.

    What's the correct way?

    Leaving for another game when the people subsidizing your gaming leaves?

    Or leaving for a new game when you reach the point when you have to buy stacks of health potions to continue playing any further?

    It's funny how the loudest supporters never paid a cent towards these games, yet the average player is said to have spent $28 per month (except you of course).

    I'd rather have subs to 2 games for that and access to everything.

    But, don't focus on that. Just explain the "correct" way. I really want to know.

    You just state it .. when the game stops being fun (either no one else is paying, or run out of free content) .. leave for another game. It is not like there is a shortage of F2P games.

    In fact, it is the opposite. I have been enjoying STO .. i have hardly scratched the surface of free content. I have only up to L10, with two ships, and still on the first season of missions. It will be at least months (assuming i play more instead of on and off) before i get thorugh with this game. And there are many many more. So yeah .... F2P will never cost me a cent.

    And btw, research shows a MAJORITY of players don't pay a cent in MMOs. The link is posted in this and other thread.

    And so .. yeah .. i am one of the majority who enjoy F2P games for free.

    That's your claim to glory? Being a second-class nomad? This F2P trend is going places.

    That's pretty sad.

    It's like MMO welfare and I'm a competitive gamer paying increasing cash shop prices to subsidize your existence.

     

    "claim to glory"? We are talking about digital entertainment here. What is sad is people think that you have to pay through the roof to have fun.

    And yes, please keep paying into cash shop to subsidize my fun. I have zero problem with that. And btw, i don't know about you .. but there is no winning in PvE. Case in point .. i play some STO .. and i am enjoying myself with paying NOTHING. If you play STO, are you going to get starship envy and have to spend money just because the next guy has a cooler looking ship ...  if that is you .. please play my game .. you certainly *will* subsidize me.

  • SWTOR is £21 $35 a month to just buy 4 weekly passes a week for a month, thats fu ridiculous... thats exluding all the other things you must buy as F2P.
  • LOTRO is the worlds best F2P game IMO, theres no pay to win items, you can perma buy content, i play it free to play when it went F2P i bought £40 of turbine points and bought the entire games content, now i play like a Lifetime sub FREE, its amazing, i never have to sub, i have 9 char slots, all quest zones and expansions unlocked forever for free no sub, theres NOTHING i need to ever buy on AH appart from convinience items like teleports and rep speed ups.
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