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Combat sucks... why so much hype?

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  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member

    While action combat can be fun, it renders several game features difficult if not impossible. Sure it might be more realistic for that Mage and Archer standing back a bit to land some hits on the backs of their allies rather than the teams target. But at the same time it renders many, if not all ranged or AoE attacks as unusable once the target is engaged. Seiges could be a bit 'interesting' with action combat, and not in a good way.

    For example DF:UW, friendly fire incidents are beyond common. Trying to click target a foe that 2-3 others are also on is next to impossible. Mouse-Over healing and buffing in a more static fight like WoW / EQ is easy, in fluid action combat you heal or buff the foe as often as the ally.

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,266Member Uncommon
    I'm not following this game because of the combat.

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • VonatarVonatar PraguePosts: 672Member Uncommon
    @Gelusios - play Age of Wushu. It makes Mortal Online look like some rich kid's attempt to make an MMO (oh wait :p).

    Seriously though, I stumbled on Age of Wushu beta and it's overflowing with features. Just an suggestion if you are someone who likes MO.
  • angus858angus858 Mechanicsburg, PAPosts: 353Member

    I was pleased to learn of the traditional combat system in AA.  That is one of the reasons I will buy this game when it releases in the west.  I like old-school tab targetting better than action-combat.  The other reason people are excited is, of course, that non-combat gameplay has been given greater emphasis than in most other games.  Many of us also look forward to the promise of a sandbox style of gameplay.

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    If people are "hyped" they're not hyped about the combat. If anything it's the last thing I'm looking forward to in AA on the feature list.

    A long lasting, good MMORPG is the sum of its parts.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    I was going to say that AA is more than combat and that there are sandbox features, etc, but the people in this thread explained it quite clearly.

    I havent played the game yet, but I believe that tab targeting does not have to mean that the combat sucks.

     

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • PsychoPigeonPsychoPigeon UnkownPosts: 565Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    Tera had no targeting and it sucked, but using your logic it should be the best thing ever simply because of the combat system.

     

    The idea you can't be skillful with a targeting system is pure bunk. Giving a bad player a non targeting system doesn't mean they will suddenly become pros. There's always a system to learn and become good at.

  • GhostshadowsGhostshadows PyongyangPosts: 70Member

    TERA bombed so hard, I mean look at their retention rate of subs...nuff said. Combat was great but its nothing if you dont have the end game content. 

    Its like that hot gf you had in which she had you in bed but when it came to the core essence of her personality it was just bland....wont last long at all.

    People take the internet too serious...go out get some sun and cool off

  • ThebigthrillThebigthrill Eastpointe, MIPosts: 117Member
    I liked the game but uninstalled once i read a paid mount expires after 30 days, sorry its stupid decisions like these that kill morpg's.

    "Don't tell me what to do! , you're not my mod"

    Saying invented by me.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    Not everyone hates the now standard tab targetting,stat based combat in MMORPGs and if every MMORPG became crosshair,twitch based combat thne all we'd see here was how peopel are sick of crosshair,twitch based combat systems.

    There's room in the genre for all sorts of things.

  • EnerzealEnerzeal WarringtonPosts: 326Member

    I have played Archeage Online in Combat Beta 5, put in atleast 40 hours of gameplay with it so I feel I can at the very least evaluate the early levels well enough.

    The combat while very much WoW based, it feels good. It also has a lot of elements of team work in its combat system, lots of spells that effect other spells but which require others to cast them.

    You'll like it, trust me.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,750Member Uncommon
          I dont really get the hype for thsi game eitehr...The vids I watched had one person jsut tearing through every mob in a matter of seconds...I didnt see any real skill or anything, just quick zergfest fighting.....I guess for some people that makes a great game while others like slower, strategic combat.
  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    A lot of you are convinced the combat I'm speaking of is Tera. As I do like Tera, I am more or so speaking of hardcore more than Tera. Although tera is "Free-aim" it still does share a lot of traditional MMO spells and skills that allow it to be easier. I'm refering to combat in games like Mortal Online or Chivalry Medieval Warfare (even know this is a lobby based game). My feeling is that this tab targeting spam key really can ruin a game. It promotes no competetive play... it's just a bunch of button mashing hoping to out DPS the oppontent. Granted this game is feature enriched.. that is still a huge issue I think will utlimately cause this game to be less successful. Not a flop, but just not as big.
  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by Yalexy

     


    Originally posted by Phaserlight
    Yalexy, kind of like this?

     

    Okay, so maybe it's not hundreds of players, but the concept and the framework is certainly there, along with the techincal know-how to support that kind of interaction should the playerbase arrive.

    A couple more examples:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-fbtO_bc_o

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtO9hJsIJrs

    It works pretty well, from my perspective.


     

    I'm not speaking of technical possibilities, but of playability.

    The biggest battles I've taken part in EvE Online involved some 2500 pilots, with some 1500 within sight of each other at certain points during the battle.
    With the FPS-controls of Freelancer, or in your example Vendetta, you'll simply loose the overview and get lost in a massive zergfest. Something I definately wouldn't enjoying.

    The focus in such massive fights should allways be on tactics and setups, and not on twitching skills, because twitching-skills don't help you that much, if you're surrounded by hundreds of other players loosing the overview over the battlefield and the situation.

    If there would be a fight with hundreds of players in Vendetta, then it would come down to pure luck if you win or loose.

    ^^This. People need to stop comparing games with tactical combat and those with twitch based combat. Traditional mmos like WoW have more tactical combat. PvP in those games is more like chess. Same goes for EvE online. In games like Tera or BF3, it's all twitch based action combat. These games have completely different types of combat, so you can't compare them. Sometimes I feel like a more tactical game, so I play EVE. Othertimes I want something that's action focused, so I play BF3. 

     

    Trying to argue that games with action based combat always have better combat than games with more tactical, traditional combat, is extremely narrow minded. There is a reason more people like mmorpgs with traditional combat than Tera's combat. Chess doesn't get old. Wack-a-mole does. If I ever went back to a traditional style mmo, I would much rather play GW2, Rift, or WoW over Tera any day. In an mmorpg game, tactical combat just makes more sense. EVE wouldn't be anywhere near the awesome game it is today if you had to manually fly the ship and manually aim the guns. The game would become incredibly simplified compared to how it is now.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    It's a Sandbox, we could not care a rat ass about combat

    Combat is not the reason why why people are excited about AA

    If you said AA has no combat, I would still play it.

    I hope this clear things up

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus
          I dont really get the hype for thsi game eitehr...The vids I watched had one person jsut tearing through every mob in a matter of seconds...I didnt see any real skill or anything, just quick zergfest fighting.....I guess for some people that makes a great game while others like slower, strategic combat.

    Now go back and watch some videos again, AA is one of the harder games where teamwork is needed even for questing, its hard to quest alone, since you are gonna have hard time when 3 mobs attacking. And the combat isn't fast paced at all.

    You probably watched another MMO, or just a high level character roaming in a low level zone.

    You can't reach max level in AA alone (or you can but it will take you long, and many deaths), unlike for example in GW2 where you can reach max level without writting a single line in the chatbox!

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon

    I'm a huge fan of FPS style MMOs, but as others have said, there is no reason that tab targetting cannot coexist with other combat styles. I also agree with the comments regarding EVE; I'll be going into this game (if it doesn't end up as "F2P") with the understanding that there is so much more to do besides fighting. It will be a part of the experience but not the main focus. This is the big reason I have an eye on the title.  

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    if combat were the only thing that mattered we'd all be playing Tera.

    image

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    It's a Sandbox, we could not care a rat ass about combat

    Combat is not the reason why why people are excited about AA

    If you said AA has no combat, I would still play it.

    I hope this clear things up

    Sorry I dont agree with this. Combat is not all that matters but it is a component and without it, the game would be Second Life or some crap MMO like that.

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    As other have mentioned, it has tons of other features, and its a game where teamplay is needed, where soloers will have a hard time.

    The tab-based combat with real physics is just fine for an RPG, if i wan't to play action games then i go and pick up an FPS game or go out for paintball with friends. Don't get me wrong that i have action based MMORPG's, i don't, but i never seen any of them doing it right so far, so far all of these action-fighting-console-style MMOs failed for me. Its better to have a tab-based "MMORPG" with 6xaction bars filled with all kind of skills, than an action-based with 1xaction bar, its an called an RPG afterall and not an FPS where you have like 5 skills.

  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by Cecropia

    I'm a huge fan of FPS style MMOs, but as others have said, there is no reason that tab targetting cannot coexist with other combat styles. I also agree with the comments regarding EVE; I'll be going into this game (if it doesn't end up as "F2P") with the understanding that there is so much more to do besides fighting. It will be a part of the experience but not the main focus. This is the big reason I have an eye on the title.  

    I would maybe change that mentality. All you'll hear on this site is how EVE would be better with manual flying and shooting. That mentality is completely backwards to how EVE players think. Combat in EVE is one of my favorite things. It's not slow, it's not boring. Once you're doing level 4 missions, the combat can be very hectic. To me EVE combat is way more intense than any other mmo I have played. And it actually requires thought. I love taking smaller ships into level 3/4 missions or tough complexes. It gets intense. 

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    Maybe because we are looking at more than just the combat.  Duh.  I for one don't care what "type" of combat is involved as long as it's fun, familiar and the rest of the gameplay is just as imersive.  Not all of us hate the tab target combat you know.  I say keep what I know and innovate the other gameplay aspects, especially those that involve world building/interaction the likes of which ArcheAge touts and other current MMOs do not.  THAT"S why it's hyped, not because of the combat but because of everything else you can do in the game. 

    image
  • MethiosMethios Brandywine, MDPosts: 157Member
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    How many MMORPG's have you played without auto target again?

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    if combat were the only thing that mattered we'd all be playing Tera.

    ^ Yeah, can't help but point this out. If combat was all that mattered Tera would be on the top of the MMo market or at the very least very close (since some people do vary on tastes that the style might not be in their cup of tea). Minecraft has relatively 'meh' combat but its the sandbox features that keep people locked in that game. 

     

    That and if 'auto target' for you instantly means no skill, you really haven't played to many MMos. I know plenty that have that style and many can't even come close to doing good, else playing Rift I'd not have plenty of people to 'glare' at in dungeons for doing so poor damage. 

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AvsRock21
    Originally posted by Cecropia

    I'm a huge fan of FPS style MMOs, but as others have said, there is no reason that tab targetting cannot coexist with other combat styles. I also agree with the comments regarding EVE; I'll be going into this game (if it doesn't end up as "F2P") with the understanding that there is so much more to do besides fighting. It will be a part of the experience but not the main focus. This is the big reason I have an eye on the title.  

    I would maybe change that mentality. All you'll hear on this site is how EVE would be better with manual flying and shooting. That mentality is completely backwards to how EVE players think. Combat in EVE is one of my favorite things. It's not slow, it's not boring. Once you're doing level 4 missions, the combat can be very hectic. To me EVE combat is way more intense than any other mmo I have played. And it actually requires thought. I love taking smaller ships into level 3/4 missions or tough complexes. It gets intense. 

    A great review of EVE I stumbled upon in '05 right before I started playing, explained that when speaking of combat in EVE it was less "Han Solo" style and more "Captain Picard" style. Definitely not something I would describe as boring.

    While I personally spent much of my time in the game being active in combat, I would spend weeks at a time doing lots of other things that had nothing to do with it. We had people in our Corp that never even touched the combat aspect of the game that were with us for years.

    God, what a wonderful MMO.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

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