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[Poll] Which pvp ruleset prevents more the ganks?

In the posts that i read, i see a lot of people saying or pressupossing that a mmo with FFA pvp will necessarily have a lot more ganks than WoW and the like, which is clearly not true in my opinion.

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

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Comments

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon

    Always include a third "show me the results" option.

    I voted the first one to see the results.

    I'm not certain I can say based on my experience either ruleset prevents more the ganks.  My personal favorite system is EVE online and its not really either, depending on perspective.

     

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    As if these are the 2 only systems...

     

    How about a RvR system with no open world PvP?   No ganks and as much PvP as you want.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    If you are doing everything you can to discourage random PvP encounters then why have PvP at all. A game mechanic being so restrictive, is just detrimental to the PvP system. It would only serves to protect those who want to avoid PvP. Then you may as well just have battlegrounds.

     

    I never understood why people want to discourage random PvP encounters in any game. If you want an equal punishment to the attacker, after you lost the fight then doesn't that just make you a poor sport?

     

    I understand people don't want their games to be all about PvP but if you want PvP when it suits you then we already have perfectly working solutions like battlegrounds, arenas and contested lands.

     

     

    What's your definition of a gank by the way?

  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    Where is the problem? If you don't like open world pvp you can play on pve server. I always wonder why are people crying about ganking in wow, choose pve server and problem is solved.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Starpower

    What's your definition of a gank by the way?

    Ditto.

     

    Instead of saying things like 'gank' or 'hardcore' I wish people would just state the actual mechanic, system or playstyle they are referring to.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    a healthy ffa pvp will need safe zones.

     

    the crafters need a space to operate freely in and build the war toys for you to have what to break.

     

    and you as a player should not gank the non-combatants. they serve their purpose and its not to inflate your killboard. it's to build your weapons. safe zones for basic crafting and trading are trivial.

     

    edit: by gank I refer to "highly trained and equipped pvp'er stalking a non-combatant who cant fight back, and engaging in combat when the other guy no longer has a way out." basically a gank to me is a fight that had only one possible outcome the second it started. like a cruiser vs a mining barge. or a level 10 mage vs a level 90 rogue.

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  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    i think i smell something... yeah i smell a loaded question.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,896Member Uncommon

    No vote.

     

    Best way to prevent ganks?  Consensual PVP.  If you're looking for a fight, then flag.  If you're really looking for a fight, then flag and start killing quest givers.

     

    edit: splling...damn old crap-top with unreliable keys.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,258Member Uncommon
    From what I've seen, option two. Harsh penaties, and penalties carried out by players, like bounty hunters and authorities. Give the players the tools, and they will police pk'n. No need for safe zones or guards for that matter.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    No vote.

     

    Best way to preven ganks?  Consensual PVP.  If you're looking for a fight, then flag.  If you're really looking for a fight, then flag and start killing quest givers.

    the flaw is obvious...

     

    the guy who dosn't have the upper hand won't consent. and there's always one who doesn' have the upper hand.

     

    how much pvp do you see in a wow pve realm ,where this consent system is in place ? one fight per month ? two fights per month ?

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  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    I think some people are mis-interpreting the OP here.

    Some older MMOs had FFA PvP with a bounty system that allowed the community to police itself and punish 'murderers' in its own way (usually by making them a target who can be killed without consequence and encouraging the community to hunt them down by offering a reward). In my opinion those systems are the best for preventing ganks as it reduces the likelihood of players ganking for the sake of it and instead only doing it when they have a reason to. This kind of system works best in sandbox MMOs though to be fair...

    It also creates a soft separation between those who want to PvP and those who don't. Everyone is permanently flagged but the gankers are more likely to go after their own kind due to the way the system works.

    It all balances out nicely in the end and allows the PvPers a FFA playground and the others the thrill of playing in that environment without the frustration of battles that are decided before their opponent even attacks.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,896Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    how much pvp do you see in a wow pve realm ,where this consent system is in place ? one fight per month ? two fights per month ?

     

    Plenty, but it goes on in battlegrounds and arenas.

     

    Sorry, but I can't condone the rampant slaughter of PVE'ers just because it's fun for the people with the upper hand.

     

    EDIT: Unless the game is specifically designed that way.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • BTrayaLBTrayaL BucharestPosts: 595Member Uncommon
    Option 2, from my Lineage 2 years.

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  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Alberel

    I think some people are mis-interpreting the OP here.

    Some older MMOs had FFA PvP with a bounty system that allowed the community to police itself and punish 'murderers' in its own way (usually by making them a target who can be killed without consequence and encouraging the community to hunt them down by offering a reward). In my opinion those systems are the best for preventing ganks as it reduces the likelihood of players ganking for the sake of it and instead only doing it when they have a reason to. This kind of system works best in sandbox MMOs though to be fair...

    It also creates a soft separation between those who want to PvP and those who don't. Everyone is permanently flagged but the gankers are more likely to go after their own kind due to the way the system works.

    It all balances out nicely in the end and allows the PvPers a FFA playground and the others the thrill of playing in that environment without the frustration of battles that are decided before their opponent even attacks.

    Except it's easily circumvented by having a character that is strictly for PvP you log on to cause havoc with and log out when you are done and other characters you play differently with. Your premise only works if you have 1 character pr account but even then, people are just going to buy a second account

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    how much pvp do you see in a wow pve realm ,where this consent system is in place ? one fight per month ? two fights per month ?

     

    Plenty, but it goes on in battlegrounds and arenas.

     

    Sorry, but I can't condone the rampant slaughter of PVE'ers just because it's fun for the people with the upper hand.

     

    the counter argument looks like this:

     

    I can't condone the protection of PvE'rs by invisible artificial mechanics.

     

    while i'm not a ganker, nor a pvp'er, BG's and arenas are by themselves insufficient unless a game can incorporate them into its world in a relevant way. Back to Wintergrasp and Told Barad, that's good. It's consensual, it's very much like a BG, and its relevant to the world. If every BG had such functions - aka not just another BG where all that's at stake is 250 honor points - then I'd agree with you fully.

     

    bg's and arenas are miningames. they are holding little to no relevance to the game world.

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  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Eve pretty much addressed a lot of these concerns i think, you can have FFA PvP, but you have to have areas, like towns etc, which, while not exactly 'safe zones' are so heavily policed, that anyone who breaks the law is killed, with repeat offenders unable to even enter the cities until they have improved their standing with 'law enforcement' in Eve this was by killing npc pirates, or at least that was one way. Without zones like that, any FFA PvP game will mostly fail, which is pretty much one of the reasons, although not the main one, why Darkfall online was a bit of a fail game - the other fail factor was the afk grinding mechanism, which you had to do in order to even stand a chance at pvp in the first place. Anyway, as long as PVP is in a game then there will be 'ganks' which i interpret as victory through numerical advantage, but i suspect is really just a case of being tactically outmanoeuvered.image
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    victory thru numbers is a 'zerg' not a gank. ganking can be 1 v 1.

     

    back to the stealth rogue popping out and one-shotting you...

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  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    I voted for neither.. it's an incomplete list..  Can I choose "none of the above"?
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Eve pretty much addressed a lot of these concerns i think, you can have FFA PvP, but you have to have areas, like towns etc, which, while not exactly 'safe zones' are so heavily policed, that anyone who breaks the law is killed, with repeat offenders unable to even enter the cities until they have improved their standing with 'law enforcement' in Eve this was by killing npc pirates, or at least that was one way. Without zones like that, any FFA PvP game will mostly fail, which is pretty much one of the reasons, although not the main one, why Darkfall online was a bit of a fail game - the other fail factor was the afk grinding mechanism, which you had to do in order to even stand a chance at pvp in the first place. Anyway, as long as PVP is in a game then there will be 'ganks' which i interpret as victory through numerical advantage, but i suspect is really just a case of being tactically outmanoeuvered.image

    that pretty much hit the nail on the head.

    EVE is so great because there is .5 to 1.0 space for people who want to carebear around and lower security to no security for all kinds of ganking and faction warfare.

    and ya you could get ganked in 1.0 space but it added a little more of a thrill to the game because it wasn't as if everyone at all times was trying to gank you.  it was more of a don't flash your cash in front of everyone and play smart sort of thing.

    If Darkfall or any MMORPG with swords and sorcerers had implemented a system like that with a solid PVE game to go along with it i wouldn't play any other game.  

    In my opinion you gotta have both and just throwing PVP players and PVE players in a game and slapping an optional TEF on them doens't make PVP players happy.

    throwing PVE players in the ring with PvP players and saying "oh but you can put a bounty on their head that their friend can collect and give to them" doesn't thrill PVE people.  They really don't care what negatives the PVP person gets, all they know is somebody ganked em and that makes them rage.  what happens next is mostly irrelevant.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    The question is not with the ruleset.  The question is how the game is designed.  If there is full loot or if game have instance.

     

    The problem is FFA pvp many come with full loot.  If I get gank in Wow, I just suck it up and move along.  If I get gank in Dark Fall, I loss like everything.

    Also no one really care about ganking in wow, the thing is people are hiding in instanced dungeon, or instanced battleground anyway.  They dont' even spend much time in the open world.

     

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    how much pvp do you see in a wow pve realm ,where this consent system is in place ? one fight per month ? two fights per month ?

     

    Plenty, but it goes on in battlegrounds and arenas.

     

    Sorry, but I can't condone the rampant slaughter of PVE'ers just because it's fun for the people with the upper hand.

     

    the counter argument looks like this:

     

    I can't condone the protection of PvE'rs by invisible artificial mechanics.

     

    while i'm not a ganker, nor a pvp'er, BG's and arenas are by themselves insufficient unless a game can incorporate them into its world in a relevant way. Back to Wintergrasp and Told Barad, that's good. It's consensual, it's very much like a BG, and its relevant to the world. If every BG had such functions - aka not just another BG where all that's at stake is 250 honor points - then I'd agree with you fully.

     

    bg's and arenas are miningames. they are holding little to no relevance to the game world.

    Maybe most of us realize MMORPG is just a video game.  Not everyone have the imagination that the so called whatever MMORPG is a real world.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    Didnt vote because I have never played a FFA MMO accompanied with a harsh ruleset for PK'ing.

    Aside from the "universally hated" kiddies who take max level toons into lower level areas to harrass people.  Why avoid ganking at all?  It is part of the fun.  IMO, this adds a level of real danger to pve zones and makes the experience more enjoyable.

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  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The question is not with the ruleset.  The question is how the game is designed.  If there is full loot or if game have instance.

     

    The problem is FFA pvp many come with full loot.  If I get gank in Wow, I just suck it up and move along.  If I get gank in Dark Fall, I loss like everything.

    Also no one really care about ganking in wow, the thing is people are hiding in instanced dungeon, or instanced battleground anyway.  They dont' even spend much time in the open world.

     

     

    A common rhetorical tool that many against FFA loot use is to compare looting in a full loot game to looting in WOW.  I'm not claiming you are being dishonest, but the comparisons some make aren't necessarily apples to aples so to speak.

    In most non full loot games such as WOW or SWTOR a character's gear is the culmination of months if not years of hard work and dedication and it is that gear that is a major defining aspect of one's character.   Most, if such a choice could exist, would rather have their gear than their actual character.

    In many of those games such as Darkfall or Ultima Online it is the player skill and the characters build/skillset that more fully defines the character.  Gear is replaced much more quickly and with much less investment from the player in all but the more rare circumstances.  In many of these games players can play with nearly worthless or in some cases no gear at all and still have an effective character.

    My main point being, losing "everything" in WOW is not equivalent to losing "everything" in say, Darkfall.  Because in Darkfall the extremely vast majority of what makes your character excel is not the equipment you lost on dying.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The question is not with the ruleset.  The question is how the game is designed.  If there is full loot or if game have instance.

     

    The problem is FFA pvp many come with full loot.  If I get gank in Wow, I just suck it up and move along.  If I get gank in Dark Fall, I loss like everything.

    Also no one really care about ganking in wow, the thing is people are hiding in instanced dungeon, or instanced battleground anyway.  They dont' even spend much time in the open world.

     

     

    A common rhetorical tool that many against FFA loot use is to compare looting in a full loot game to looting in WOW.  I'm not claiming you are being dishonest, but the comparisons some make aren't necessarily apples to aples so to speak.

    In most non full loot games such as WOW or SWTOR a character's gear is the culmination of months if not years of hard work and dedication and it is that gear that is a major defining aspect of one's character.   Most, if such a choice could exist, would rather have their gear than their actual character.

    In many of those games such as Darkfall or Ultima Online it is the player skill and the characters build/skillset that more fully defines the character.  Gear is replaced much more quickly and with much less investment from the player in all but the more rare circumstances.  In many of these games players can play with nearly worthless or in some cases no gear at all and still have an effective character.

    My main point being, losing "everything" in WOW is not equivalent to losing "everything" in say, Darkfall.  Because in Darkfall the extremely vast majority of what makes your character excel is not the equipment you lost on dying.

    That not the point.  You don't loss "anything" in wow.  There is a difference between not lossing anything or lossing somethings which could take hours to recover. 

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    Easy button.

    If people can gank, they will.

    Even in "fair fights" people gank. 6 vs 6 is never 6 vs 6. 6 guys pile on to one guy and gank him down. The only thing that deters gank is hard rules on LoS. Meaning if your buddy is in my face, you can't shoot me from 20 meters out because he is in the way. Better, you can try and take him in the back of the head.

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