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[Poll] Which pvp ruleset prevents more the ganks?
maccarthur2004
Member UncommonPosts: 511
In the posts that i read, i see a lot of people saying or pressupossing that a mmo with FFA pvp will necessarily have a lot more ganks than WoW and the like, which is clearly not true in my opinion.
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Always include a third "show me the results" option.
I voted the first one to see the results.
I'm not certain I can say based on my experience either ruleset prevents more the ganks. My personal favorite system is EVE online and its not really either, depending on perspective.
As if these are the 2 only systems...
How about a RvR system with no open world PvP? No ganks and as much PvP as you want.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
If you are doing everything you can to discourage random PvP encounters then why have PvP at all. A game mechanic being so restrictive, is just detrimental to the PvP system. It would only serves to protect those who want to avoid PvP. Then you may as well just have battlegrounds.
I never understood why people want to discourage random PvP encounters in any game. If you want an equal punishment to the attacker, after you lost the fight then doesn't that just make you a poor sport?
I understand people don't want their games to be all about PvP but if you want PvP when it suits you then we already have perfectly working solutions like battlegrounds, arenas and contested lands.
What's your definition of a gank by the way?
Ditto.
Instead of saying things like 'gank' or 'hardcore' I wish people would just state the actual mechanic, system or playstyle they are referring to.
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No vote.
Best way to prevent ganks? Consensual PVP. If you're looking for a fight, then flag. If you're really looking for a fight, then flag and start killing quest givers.
edit: splling...damn old crap-top with unreliable keys.
I think some people are mis-interpreting the OP here.
Some older MMOs had FFA PvP with a bounty system that allowed the community to police itself and punish 'murderers' in its own way (usually by making them a target who can be killed without consequence and encouraging the community to hunt them down by offering a reward). In my opinion those systems are the best for preventing ganks as it reduces the likelihood of players ganking for the sake of it and instead only doing it when they have a reason to. This kind of system works best in sandbox MMOs though to be fair...
It also creates a soft separation between those who want to PvP and those who don't. Everyone is permanently flagged but the gankers are more likely to go after their own kind due to the way the system works.
It all balances out nicely in the end and allows the PvPers a FFA playground and the others the thrill of playing in that environment without the frustration of battles that are decided before their opponent even attacks.
Plenty, but it goes on in battlegrounds and arenas.
Sorry, but I can't condone the rampant slaughter of PVE'ers just because it's fun for the people with the upper hand.
EDIT: Unless the game is specifically designed that way.
Except it's easily circumvented by having a character that is strictly for PvP you log on to cause havoc with and log out when you are done and other characters you play differently with. Your premise only works if you have 1 character pr account but even then, people are just going to buy a second account
that pretty much hit the nail on the head.
EVE is so great because there is .5 to 1.0 space for people who want to carebear around and lower security to no security for all kinds of ganking and faction warfare.
and ya you could get ganked in 1.0 space but it added a little more of a thrill to the game because it wasn't as if everyone at all times was trying to gank you. it was more of a don't flash your cash in front of everyone and play smart sort of thing.
If Darkfall or any MMORPG with swords and sorcerers had implemented a system like that with a solid PVE game to go along with it i wouldn't play any other game.
In my opinion you gotta have both and just throwing PVP players and PVE players in a game and slapping an optional TEF on them doens't make PVP players happy.
throwing PVE players in the ring with PvP players and saying "oh but you can put a bounty on their head that their friend can collect and give to them" doesn't thrill PVE people. They really don't care what negatives the PVP person gets, all they know is somebody ganked em and that makes them rage. what happens next is mostly irrelevant.
The question is not with the ruleset. The question is how the game is designed. If there is full loot or if game have instance.
The problem is FFA pvp many come with full loot. If I get gank in Wow, I just suck it up and move along. If I get gank in Dark Fall, I loss like everything.
Also no one really care about ganking in wow, the thing is people are hiding in instanced dungeon, or instanced battleground anyway. They dont' even spend much time in the open world.
Maybe most of us realize MMORPG is just a video game. Not everyone have the imagination that the so called whatever MMORPG is a real world.
Didnt vote because I have never played a FFA MMO accompanied with a harsh ruleset for PK'ing.
Aside from the "universally hated" kiddies who take max level toons into lower level areas to harrass people. Why avoid ganking at all? It is part of the fun. IMO, this adds a level of real danger to pve zones and makes the experience more enjoyable.
A common rhetorical tool that many against FFA loot use is to compare looting in a full loot game to looting in WOW. I'm not claiming you are being dishonest, but the comparisons some make aren't necessarily apples to aples so to speak.
In most non full loot games such as WOW or SWTOR a character's gear is the culmination of months if not years of hard work and dedication and it is that gear that is a major defining aspect of one's character. Most, if such a choice could exist, would rather have their gear than their actual character.
In many of those games such as Darkfall or Ultima Online it is the player skill and the characters build/skillset that more fully defines the character. Gear is replaced much more quickly and with much less investment from the player in all but the more rare circumstances. In many of these games players can play with nearly worthless or in some cases no gear at all and still have an effective character.
My main point being, losing "everything" in WOW is not equivalent to losing "everything" in say, Darkfall. Because in Darkfall the extremely vast majority of what makes your character excel is not the equipment you lost on dying.
That not the point. You don't loss "anything" in wow. There is a difference between not lossing anything or lossing somethings which could take hours to recover.
Easy button.
If people can gank, they will.
Even in "fair fights" people gank. 6 vs 6 is never 6 vs 6. 6 guys pile on to one guy and gank him down. The only thing that deters gank is hard rules on LoS. Meaning if your buddy is in my face, you can't shoot me from 20 meters out because he is in the way. Better, you can try and take him in the back of the head.
I'm not missing your point. To be clear, I and most sane individuals would have to agree there is a difference in loss between games like WOW and Darkfall. I was only pointing out that difference should be noted for what it is. No more or less.
Specifically when one is discussing the topic of "gank motivation" as we are here, one has to consider the full spectrum of game design and not simply compare microsystems within the different games as if there is a perfect mapping between the two systems. Which i believe was at the heart of your original point. I only expanded on that thought.
None of the above.
Ganking is only prevented if there is some sort of game mechanic, either developer or player created to discourage ganking in the first place.
EVE puts many controls into certain game areas to reduce (not totally eliminate) ganking in those areas and has unrestricted PVP in other zones which is pretty much open season on anyone not Blue to you.
As others have mentioned, what exactly is ganking? Attacking other players who have no chance at fighting back? In a title like WOW that's sort of considered bad form, but in EVE its the proper tactic to always take, if you're in a fair fight you've done something wrong.
The difference between the two is in the consequences. When your ship or gear is on the line (like EVE or DF), winning at all cost is all that really matters, the principals of fair play don't really apply. (More like real life warfare)
When there's little on the line such as in WOW or Aion, then people tend to treat PVP more like a sport and want the rules fair and balanced for everyone.
Neither approach is better than the other, just a matter of what people prefer. (and the fair and balanced approach seems to e what a majority of the player base prefers)
Here's the thing some folks forget, people rarely enjoy being "prey" and a certain segment of the player base will refuse to particpate if that's all they ever end up being. Just isn't fun for them.
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I agree with what you wrote entirely.
I wish I knew where the disconnect happened. In games like WoW, servers are clearly labeled "PvP," yet they have become increasingly unpopular. It is almost as if people are wanting less and less PvP, and yet still want to have PvP servers. PvE servers are maintained while PvP servers are slowly whittling away.
Why is it in games like WoW, OWPvP it is considered poor form to take someone out who wasnt paying attention. Part of the fun for me was keeping my head on a swivel. Controlling how many mobs I attack at one time in order to keep health high and CD's up. What really baffles me is that you run zero risk of losing anything (except time and a little money).
Across all games, the idea of a "consensual/fair fight" boggles my mind. It shouldnt even be a factor. If this is a factor, then why have PvP servers to begin with?
Is that even the topic of conversation here?
The only thing I said is I dont' care about getting ganked in wow because you don't loss anything. I care about getting ganked in darkfall. That is the only thing I said.
Maybe you get mislead when I say you loss "everything". I loss everything in inventory and everything I'm wearing ok?
I played wow and I played darkfall. In wow I dont' care about getting ganked. In darkfall I care. That is all.