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FFXIV ARR, another WoW clone

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  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,535Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by drivendawn

    They were slammed by critics the first time because "being original" meant having a non-working UI and no jump and zero content outside of levequests and 10 story quests.

     

    So, no, the game didn't fail because it was "original" or "non-WoW".  It failed because it just sucked.

     

    Sorry have to disagree it wasnt just the UI and jump they tried to be different with the market wards and guild leves as a different way of questing both of which no one liked thus the changes being made in ARR.

    Umm... I think you need to re-read his post, because you just completely skipped over two major things he pointed out.

    If you notice the bits I highlighted in each of your posts, you'll notice he mentions 4 different things. You acknowledge only two, and then characterize it as him noting "just" the UI and no jump - even though he clearly noted more than that. I'm not sure if it's cherry-picking, a strawman, or just plain poor reading comprehension, but what you did there is a textbook perfect example of something.

    What's even more interesting is how, even after ignoring their mention of levequests, you turn around and bring it back into the discussion - albeit from a different angle.

    FFXIV 1.0 failed for a number of reasons...

    1. The UI was laggy/slow and required entirely too many button clicks to get even the simplest tasks completed.

    2. The engine was an absolute dog, and ran like utter crap on even high end-machines

    3. Levequests were (initially anyway) the only significantly available content in the game, and they were poorly and lazily implemented (nothing but a bunch of repetitive "kill x of y" type quest - which people did not enjoy. Aside from that, many of them were poorly planned and designed.

    4. I don't believe the lack of jump did turned away so many people as folks assume. People complained about it, but ultimately kept playing. I chalk the whole "people quit because of no jumping" up to hyperbole. I could believe it was "a straw that broke the camel's back", on top of numerous other issues. But I don't believe "no jumping" by itself was *the* deal breaker on its own. There's too many wildly successful games out there without jump that people are just fine with - so clearly it's not a "mandatory" part of a game experience as people make it sound. It's just selective arguing.

    5. Limited story content, whether main storyline or side-quests, as was pointed out.

    6. The notoriously bad "copy-pasta'd" terrain everywhere.

    7. Limited environments to explore in, making the "copy pasta" thing even worse because there were so few different environment types to begin with.

    8. At the beginning there was the "fatigue" system (can only level a given class for so long before xp would slow down and eventually stop completely before having to be given time to "reset" by switching to another class). People did not like this.

    9. The Market Wards were an absolute train-wreck in every way. Unstable, unintuitive, poorly planned, poorly organized, and on and on. With the slow/kludgy UI, it made even *finding* an item you wanted a ridiculous endeavor, nevermind buying it.

    10. No chocobos at launch, which meant a *lot* more running on foot for a far longer period of time than should have ever happened. In FFXI, you got a chocobo by level 20 and then you could go anywhere on foot by riding one, which sped things up a lot.  In FFXIV, you could get to level 40 and still be running on foot, for very long distances.

    11. Gathering and how to actually gather with each was poorly explained and too tedious for many people. I'm all for mini-game type activities over the "click and profit" approach... but XIV's implementation was just horrid to me.

    And on and on...

    Also have to remember, that not every single person held every single thing as "an issue" or as a "deal breaker". I remember people arguing in favor of the market wards, feeling they just needed to be "tweaked a little". People loved the fatigue system... and so on. So depending on who you ask, you're going to get a different spread of "reasons FFXIV failed for them", and they're going to rank various issues differently than others.

    Overall though, FFXIV tanked for all those reasons, not just "this or that one that happened to be an issue with me".

     

     

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,241Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    Originally posted by drivendawn

    They were slammed by critics the first time because "being original" meant having a non-working UI and no jump and zero content outside of levequests and 10 story quests.

     

    So, no, the game didn't fail because it was "original" or "non-WoW".  It failed because it just sucked.

     

    Sorry have to disagree it wasnt just the UI and jump they tried to be different with the market wards and guild leves as a different way of questing both of which no one liked thus the changes being made in ARR.

    Umm... I think you need to re-read his post, because you just completely skipped over two major things he pointed out.

    If you notice the bits I highlighted in each of your posts, you'll notice he mentions 4 different things. You acknowledge only two, and then characterize it as him noting "just" the UI and no jump - even though he clearly noted more than that. I'm not sure if it's cherry-picking, a strawman, or just plain poor reading comprehension, but what you did there is a textbook perfect example of something.

    What's even more interesting is how, even after ignoring their mention of levequests, you turn around and bring it back into the discussion - albeit from a different angle.

    FFXIV 1.0 failed for a number of reasons...

    1. The UI was laggy/slow and required entirely too many button clicks to get even the simplest tasks completed.

    2. The engine was an absolute dog, and ran like utter crap on even high end-machines

    3. Levequests were (initially anyway) the only significantly available content in the game, and they were poorly and lazily implemented (nothing but a bunch of repetitive "kill x of y" type quest - which people did not enjoy. Aside from that, many of them were poorly planned and designed.

    4. I don't believe the lack of jump did turned away so many people as folks assume. People complained about it, but ultimately kept playing. I chalk the whole "people quit because of no jumping" up to hyperbole. I could believe it was "a straw that broke the camel's back", on top of numerous other issues. But I don't believe "no jumping" by itself was *the* deal breaker on its own. There's too many wildly successful games out there without jump that people are just fine with - so clearly it's not a "mandatory" part of a game experience as people make it sound. It's just selective arguing.

    5. Limited story content, whether main storyline or side-quests, as was pointed out.

    6. The notoriously bad "copy-pasta'd" terrain everywhere.

    7. Limited environments to explore in, making the "copy pasta" thing even worse because there were so few different environment types to begin with.

    8. At the beginning there was the "fatigue" system (can only level a given class for so long before xp would slow down and eventually stop completely before having to be given time to "reset" by switching to another class). People did not like this.

    9. The Market Wards were an absolute train-wreck in every way. Unstable, unintuitive, poorly planned, poorly organized, and on and on. With the slow/kludgy UI, it made even *finding* an item you wanted a ridiculous endeavor, nevermind buying it.

    10. No chocobos at launch, which meant a *lot* more running on foot for a far longer period of time than should have ever happened. In FFXI, you got a chocobo by level 20 and then you could go anywhere on foot by riding one, which sped things up a lot.  In FFXIV, you could get to level 40 and still be running on foot, for very long distances.

    11. Gathering and how to actually gather with each was poorly explained and too tedious for many people. I'm all for mini-game type activities over the "click and profit" approach... but XIV's implementation was just horrid to me.

    And on and on...

    Also have to remember, that not every single person held every single thing as "an issue" or as a "deal breaker". I remember people arguing in favor of the market wards, feeling they just needed to be "tweaked a little". People loved the fatigue system... and so on. So depending on who you ask, you're going to get a different spread of "reasons FFXIV failed for them", and they're going to rank various issues differently than others.

    Overall though, FFXIV tanked for all those reasons, not just "this or that one that happened to be an issue with me".

     

     

    I know what he said and he was commenting on a post i made pages ago where i said "I think you're missing his point. He's saying the first time, they were trying to be more unique and it failed. Now that they're trying to be truer to the mmo standard, they're getting a bunch of complaints about them not being original enough. That's why he was saying damned if you do, damned if you don't. I would have to agree with this sentiment." And his post to this reads like hes saying that the UI and jump was the only things that got away from the standard so the reason that it flopped wasn't that it was trying to get off the norm but the lack of content and such. I agree lack of content was a major thing but I disagree that the UI and lack of jump were the only things that weren't the standard.  Anyway, my point is is that I agree it failed because it sucked. The cause of it sucking, however, wasn't just lack of content but also the fact that it was trying to implement unheard of things, for the sake of innovation, that nobody liked. If he wasn't trying to say that lack of content alone contributed to the failure of this game, then I retract the above post. If he is, then my statement stands.

     

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by alyosha17
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Originally posted by Ralstlin
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Yeah because first attempt was so damn successful right? what possible reason they could have to rework on entire game from scratch?

    Damn if you do and damn if you don't.

    Damn if u do? i think u are wrong on that. FFXIV: ARR have a new Producer and Director and a lot more people than previus fail working on this title... is like u say that FFXII had no future because FFX-2 was so bad. FFXIV: ARR Is completely a new game with the same lore, and lore was not bad in 1.0.

     

     

    I think you're missing his point. He's saying the first time, they were trying to be more unique and it failed. Now that they're trying to be truer to the mmo standard, they're getting a bunch of complaints about them not being original enough. That's why he was saying damned if you do, damned if you don't. I would have to agree with this sentiment.

    They were slammed by critics the first time because "being original" meant having a non-working UI and no jump and zero content outside of levequests and 10 story quests.

     

    So, no, the game didn't fail because it was "original" or "non-WoW".  It failed because it just sucked.

     

     

    How can you call not having the ability to jump original? It's more like a worthless feature most mmos have. Just because it is left out of a game doesn't make that game original. The UI was worthless..... Content was not developed. How is any of that "original?" Doesn't being original impy that their was some kind of effort directed at making a meaningful difference? If they wanted to be original then they could have made concrete classes, since every mmo now is going towards "classless" system or hybrids. If they wanted to be original they could have done away with instances, since most all MMOs have instances. If they wanted to be original they could have made the game hard, since most MMOs are pieces of cake.

  • UWNVMEUWNVME Auburn, WAPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by DouganDougan

    lol, is not even close to be a WoW clone, who made this thread?

     

    MMORPG = WoW clone or what?

    The same people right now who whine about "WoW clones" were the same ones complaining that GW2 was too different from WoW. Try not to give these worthless trolls the attention they hunger for.

  • ironhelixironhelix fairfield, OHPosts: 448Member
    It looks like a Final Fantasy XI clone to me, and Final Fantasy XI came out 2 years before WoW, so  don;t really see what the OP is talking about.
  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member

    I think we need to make distinctions between "industry standards" and "wow clones."

     

    Allods online was a WoW clone.  The combat, the art style, game mechanics were literally identical to WoW.

     

    Games like Rift, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Aion, etc adopted some of the styles from WoW because it had become a standard in the mmo genre based on WoW meteoric popularity.  You had more people who played WoW as their first mmo and only mmo before going onto other games.  When other games did not have some of the same features, people could not adjust and they would abandon.

     

    Having a responsive UI and Combat does not make a game a clone of WoW.  Would you want ot play a game that is LESS responsive than WoW.  If you make a game as or more responsive, you're giving people reasons to play your game.... you're not becomming a WoW clone.   

     

    I understand that the biggest issue is the "Quest Hub" model that has been adopted, but that has exited in mmos before and after WoW.  Wow popularized it.  To say that a game incorporating quest hubs is a WoW clone is factually erroneous given the history of mmos.  It is also factually erroneous when it comes to FFXIV.  I played FFXIV up to and until the servers shut down.  I started playing again the day Yoshi-P took over.   

     

    Before FFXIV 1.0 came out, they asked Tanaka (the old producer, now fired/"left for health reasons") what other mmo's he played to model FFXIV after.... he laughed and said, only FFXI.  So when he made assanine comments that he wanted to make FFXIV as popular as WoW, in hindsight, we see how completely clueless Tanaka was.  Fast forward to Yoshi-P who understands that certain things within a genre become the STANDARD.  Before you can branch out and make something new and wonderful, you need a SOLID FOUNDATION (fast, responsive ui and combat, for example).  

     

    Long story short, if you were to tell me 2 years ago that FFXIV can become as function and responsive as WoW, but in a Final Fantasy universe, with unique story telling and a fan service component, I would have said "That's what FFXIV should have been before it was released!"

     

    All that Yoshi-P is doing is bringing FFXIV to modern standards before he can put on his own unique stamp.  I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that Yoshi-P is asking his developers to play other modern games and decide what, if any components, should also be incorporated intot he game.  Don't you guys want your game to evolve?  The FATE system seems to be a modified version of Dynmaic Events in GW2.   This is something to be optimistic about, not ring the alarm that FFXIV is just another clone of  "X" (insert game).

     

    Edit:  I have more than a dozen friends from my linkshell who played Alpha.  Almost universally they LOVED it.  I am reserving judgment until I play it in Beta.  As a legacy member, I will starting mid February. The only game breaker for me is boring combat.  If the combat is slower but very deep and tactical... that's well within the Final Fantasy history and tradition.  Fine by me.

  • Theft82Theft82 Tulsa, OKPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by ironhelix
    It looks like a Final Fantasy XI clone to me, and Final Fantasy XI came out 2 years before WoW, so  don;t really see what the OP is talking about.

    Well not completely but for the most part possibly. lol  As far as the everyone else, you either play it or don't. That is the simple fact that it comes down to. You can have you opinion on how long you think it is going to last/ how well it is going to do as well. I know for one that I am super @!!%$^$^! pumped about it and will be bringing my friends in to play with me. I loved XI and it will always be my favorite MMO. I am not psychic by any means but I think I am going to like ARR. :)

  • Theft82Theft82 Tulsa, OKPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    I think we need to make distinctions between "industry standards" and "wow clones."

     

    Allods online was a WoW clone.  The combat, the art style, game mechanics were literally identical to WoW.

     

    Games like Rift, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Aion, etc adopted some of the styles from WoW because it had become a standard in the mmo genre based on WoW meteoric popularity.  You had more people who played WoW as their first mmo and only mmo before going onto other games.  When other games did not have some of the same features, people could not adjust and they would abandon.

     

    Having a responsive UI and Combat does not make a game a clone of WoW.  Would you want ot play a game that is LESS responsive than WoW.  If you make a game as or more responsive, you're giving people reasons to play your game.... you're not becomming a WoW clone.   

     

    I understand that the biggest issue is the "Quest Hub" model that has been adopted, but that has exited in mmos before and after WoW.  Wow popularized it.  To say that a game incorporating quest hubs is a WoW clone is factually erroneous given the history of mmos.  It is also factually erroneous when it comes to FFXIV.  I played FFXIV up to and until the servers shut down.  I started playing again the day Yoshi-P took over.   

     

    Before FFXIV 1.0 came out, they asked Tanaka (the old producer, now fired/"left for health reasons") what other mmo's he played to model FFXIV after.... he laughed and said, only FFXI.  So when he made assanine comments that he wanted to make FFXIV as popular as WoW, in hindsight, we see how completely clueless Tanaka was.  Fast forward to Yoshi-P who understands that certain things within a genre become the STANDARD.  Before you can branch out and make something new and wonderful, you need a SOLID FOUNDATION (fast, responsive ui and combat, for example).  

     

    Long story short, if you were to tell me 2 years ago that FFXIV can become as function and responsive as WoW, but in a Final Fantasy universe, with unique story telling and a fan service component, I would have said "That's what FFXIV should have been before it was released!"

     

    All that Yoshi-P is doing is bringing FFXIV to modern standards before he can put on his own unique stamp.  I LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that Yoshi-P is asking his developers to play other modern games and decide what, if any components, should also be incorporated intot he game.  Don't you guys want your game to evolve?  The FATE system seems to be a modified version of Dynmaic Events in GW2.   This is something to be optimistic about, not ring the alarm that FFXIV is just another clone of  "X" (insert game).

    God bless you and AMEN.

  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member

    In my opinion, game sucks.

     

    Severe graphics downgrade (my compairson screenshots from Version 1 compared with alpha got the thread deleted last time so i wont repost) . It's really sad to see such nice places become so uglified.   Many people in alpha forums were reiterating this point.

     

    Also, in ARR, you just do quest-spam, and the quests are pretty unremarkable.  You can basically play the whole game from your minimap.  Not that you'd be missing much, considering the graphics now.

     

    Combat is boring (general cooldowns, and little strategy).  Doubt anyone will really find it very entertaining unless it's the only MMO they ever played.

     

    Animations suuuuck.  Both the movement animations and also the overly flashy spell animations.  You shoot your bow and it turns into a fireworks display which obscures your entire screen.  So random.

     

    Invisible walls everywhere.  I keep thinking "why is THAT an invisible?  I could easily jump that."  They're literally everywhere.  Also, jump is the most spastic looking thing you'll ever see.  It's like a really fast-paced squatting animation which occurs while you levitate.

     

    Oh yeah, and there's excessive zone lines everywhere.  Why is a town split into two zones now for no reason?  If they're going to downgrade all the textures, shouldn't that allow them to actually increase the zone size?  Not split it up into 1/100th of its size.  It's not necessarily a bad thing except for the fact they advertise zone borders now with heinous blue blinking lights.  Lol, it looks like a landing strip at an airport.

     

    And the tone of the game is also off. They were trying to make it feel like a Final Fantasy.  But actually, Version 1 felt more like a Final Fantasy than this does.  A realm Reborn just feels... so... childish.   Everyone starts off in a cosplay outfit (replete with schoolgirl skirt).  In version one, you started out in class-specific gear which actually was relevant to the artistic integrity of the gameworld.  But now, nope, you're just a schoolgirl in a red and white miniskirt for no reason.  No reason!

     

    It's like S.E. will just stop at nothing to feed people random shit in order to make the game "feel more FF".  Yet it turns out the other way.  The game feels like a cartoon.

     

    Only good thing I can even say about the game is that responsiveness improved.  But only compared to the original game.  Compared to any normal MMO, it's standard.

     

    So Bravo, they ruined many good things about the original, and improved one thing basically.  Two years and 250 staff members well spent?

     

     

     

     

     

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    In my opinion, game sucks.

     

    Severe graphics downgrade (my compairson screenshots from Version 1 compared with alpha got the thread deleted last time so i wont repost) . It's really sad to see such nice places become so uglified.   Many people in alpha forums were reiterating this point.

     

    Also, in ARR, you just do quest-spam, and the quests are pretty unremarkable.  You can basically play the whole game from your minimap.  Not that you'd be missing much, considering the graphics now.

     

    Combat is boring (general cooldowns, and little strategy).  Doubt anyone will really find it very entertaining unless it's the only MMO they ever played.

     

    Animations suuuuck.  Both the movement animations and also the overly flashy spell animations.  You shoot your bow and it turns into a fireworks display which obscures your entire screen.  So random.

     

    Invisible walls everywhere.  I keep thinking "why is THAT an invisible?  I could easily jump that."  They're literally everywhere.  Also, jump is the most spastic looking thing you'll ever see.  It's like a really fast-paced squatting animation which occurs while you levitate.

     

    Oh yeah, and there's excessive zone lines everywhere.  Why is a town split into two zones now for no reason?  If they're going to downgrade all the textures, shouldn't that allow them to actually increase the zone size?  Not split it up into 1/100th of its size.  It's not necessarily a bad thing except for the fact they advertise zone borders now with heinous blue blinking lights.  Lol, it looks like a landing strip at an airport.

     

    And the tone of the game is also off. They were trying to make it feel like a Final Fantasy.  But actually, Version 1 felt more like a Final Fantasy than this does.  A realm Reborn just feels... so... childish.   Everyone starts off in a cosplay outfit (replete with schoolgirl skirt).  In version one, you started out in class-specific gear which actually was relevant to the artistic integrity of the gameworld.  But now, nope, you're just a schoolgirl in a red and white miniskirt for no reason.  No reason!

     

    It's like S.E. will just stop at nothing to feed people random shit in order to make the game "feel more FF".  Yet it turns out the other way.  The game feels like a cartoon.

     

    Only good thing I can even say about the game is that responsiveness improved.  But only compared to the original game.  Compared to any normal MMO, it's standard.

     

    So Bravo, they ruined many good things about the original, and improved one thing basically.  Two years and 250 staff members well spent?

     

     

     

     

     

    I really can't take anything you say seriously.  Your post history is unequivically negative about FFXIV.  My dozen or so friends who played alpha loved it.

     

    I also have to say that you sure like to make judgments about a game in alpha.  You complain about animations, but you should be aware that all of the animations wernt' included.

    You complain about the quests but have yet to play the pvp, the FATE system, raid content, Housing, choco raising, chocobo pet combat in addition to the myriad of content beign imported from 1.0 (Behests, Squirmish, Primals, etc etc.)

     

    You take 5% of the game in alpha and make a 100% generalization... by definition, that makes you a hater and an opinion worth 0%.

     

     

  • Theft82Theft82 Tulsa, OKPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by ZizouX
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    In my opinion, game sucks.

     

    Severe graphics downgrade (my compairson screenshots from Version 1 compared with alpha got the thread deleted last time so i wont repost) . It's really sad to see such nice places become so uglified.   Many people in alpha forums were reiterating this point.

     

    Also, in ARR, you just do quest-spam, and the quests are pretty unremarkable.  You can basically play the whole game from your minimap.  Not that you'd be missing much, considering the graphics now.

     

    Combat is boring (general cooldowns, and little strategy).  Doubt anyone will really find it very entertaining unless it's the only MMO they ever played.

     

    Animations suuuuck.  Both the movement animations and also the overly flashy spell animations.  You shoot your bow and it turns into a fireworks display which obscures your entire screen.  So random.

     

    Invisible walls everywhere.  I keep thinking "why is THAT an invisible?  I could easily jump that."  They're literally everywhere.  Also, jump is the most spastic looking thing you'll ever see.  It's like a really fast-paced squatting animation which occurs while you levitate.

     

    Oh yeah, and there's excessive zone lines everywhere.  Why is a town split into two zones now for no reason?  If they're going to downgrade all the textures, shouldn't that allow them to actually increase the zone size?  Not split it up into 1/100th of its size.  It's not necessarily a bad thing except for the fact they advertise zone borders now with heinous blue blinking lights.  Lol, it looks like a landing strip at an airport.

     

    And the tone of the game is also off. They were trying to make it feel like a Final Fantasy.  But actually, Version 1 felt more like a Final Fantasy than this does.  A realm Reborn just feels... so... childish.   Everyone starts off in a cosplay outfit (replete with schoolgirl skirt).  In version one, you started out in class-specific gear which actually was relevant to the artistic integrity of the gameworld.  But now, nope, you're just a schoolgirl in a red and white miniskirt for no reason.  No reason!

     

    It's like S.E. will just stop at nothing to feed people random shit in order to make the game "feel more FF".  Yet it turns out the other way.  The game feels like a cartoon.

     

    Only good thing I can even say about the game is that responsiveness improved.  But only compared to the original game.  Compared to any normal MMO, it's standard.

     

    So Bravo, they ruined many good things about the original, and improved one thing basically.  Two years and 250 staff members well spent?

     

     

     

     

     

    I really can't take anything you say seriously.  Your post history is unequivically negative about FFXIV.  My dozen or so friends who played alpha loved it.

     

    I also have to say that you sure like to make judgments about a game in alpha.  You complain about animations, but you should be aware that all of the animations wernt' included.

    You complain about the quests but have yet to play the pvp, the FATE system, raid content, Housing, choco raising, chocobo pet combat in addition to the myriad of content beign imported from 1.0 (Behests, Squirmish, Primals, etc etc.)

     

    You take 5% of the game in alpha and make a 100% generalization... by definition, that makes you a hater and an opinion worth 0%.

     

     

    BOOMSHACKALACKA!

  • VooDoo_PapaVooDoo_Papa Somewhere on a beach on the east coast, FLPosts: 883Member Uncommon

    Im really hoping beta is an improvement as far as the PVE content goes.  Theres no lack of quests, but its your standard "connect the dots" type of PVE questing progression where you start at quest hub A. and progress to the following quest hubs in a linear fashion wiping out all of its surrounding mobs.

    as far as the art direction and animations, I actually liked them. Sure, the graphics are toned down but its still a beautiful game.  For an MMO, one of the most beautiful games i've played.

    I miss the story driven portions of the first version, not sure if this is to come or not, or maybe I didnt reach that point yet? I'll admit, theres still a lot I havnt seen, but the few days I spent in alpha didnt really show me anything that struck my interest. I actually liked the first version of FFXIV better because at least it was original.  This just is not.

    theres a lot of truth in what Alyosha said, you guys shouldnt just dismiss it because it comes off strongly negative.

    image
  • darkrain21darkrain21 philadelphia, PAPosts: 274Member

    1. If you dont like it, dont play it the community doent need another one of you.

    2. Every game you listed that "failed" before wow didnt fail at all. it took years and years to finnally have those games shut down and that only happened due to the companies making a choice. (lets all face it tho no one wanted SWG and COH to shut down)

    3. Has the op even played ARR. All Yoshi-P is taking from wow is a zone like quest system, and the ui. The game stil has FFXIV job system and im sure it will be built apon. Its going to have its signature FF story line. Its non generic class based crafting and gathering.

    4. Whats wrong with copying wow? The game is successfull the games that copy it are succsefull. I.E Rift, Swotr, EQ2, FFXI. All these games took ideas from one another and in a way made themselves successfull.

    If your mad that its a "wow clone" and you condem it for it. You sir dont know how to video game world works and should probally not play any of them.

  • darkrain21darkrain21 philadelphia, PAPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

    Im really hoping beta is an improvement as far as the PVE content goes.  Theres no lack of quests, but its your standard "connect the dots" type of PVE questing progression where you start at quest hub A. and progress to the following quest hubs in a linear fashion wiping out all of its surrounding mobs.

    as far as the art direction and animations, I actually liked them. Sure, the graphics are toned down but its still a beautiful game.  For an MMO, one of the most beautiful games i've played.

    I miss the story driven portions of the first version, not sure if this is to come or not, or maybe I didnt reach that point yet? I'll admit, theres still a lot I havnt seen, but the few days I spent in alpha didnt really show me anything that struck my interest. I actually liked the first version of FFXIV better because at least it was original.  This just is not.

    theres a lot of truth in what Alyosha said, you guys shouldnt just dismiss it because it comes off strongly negative.

    Voodoo, the alpha wasnt a demo. It was a massivly cut down version of a small segment of the game. The story was disabled due to them still working on it. Alpha means before beta and right after the testers got done. Stop thinking that the alpha was ment to give you a taste of final product we are still at least 6 months away from launch.

  • VooDoo_PapaVooDoo_Papa Somewhere on a beach on the east coast, FLPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darkrain21
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

    Im really hoping beta is an improvement as far as the PVE content goes.  Theres no lack of quests, but its your standard "connect the dots" type of PVE questing progression where you start at quest hub A. and progress to the following quest hubs in a linear fashion wiping out all of its surrounding mobs.

    as far as the art direction and animations, I actually liked them. Sure, the graphics are toned down but its still a beautiful game.  For an MMO, one of the most beautiful games i've played.

    I miss the story driven portions of the first version, not sure if this is to come or not, or maybe I didnt reach that point yet? I'll admit, theres still a lot I havnt seen, but the few days I spent in alpha didnt really show me anything that struck my interest. I actually liked the first version of FFXIV better because at least it was original.  This just is not.

    theres a lot of truth in what Alyosha said, you guys shouldnt just dismiss it because it comes off strongly negative.

    Voodoo, the alpha wasnt a demo. It was a massivly cut down version of a small segment of the game. The story was disabled due to them still working on it. Alpha means before beta and right after the testers got done. Stop thinking that the alpha was ment to give you a taste of final product we are still at least 6 months away from launch.

    sorry, i thought i made it clear that im aware of the current state of the game. i mean, isnt that what this thread was opened for?

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  • darkrain21darkrain21 philadelphia, PAPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa
    Originally posted by darkrain21
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

    Im really hoping beta is an improvement as far as the PVE content goes.  Theres no lack of quests, but its your standard "connect the dots" type of PVE questing progression where you start at quest hub A. and progress to the following quest hubs in a linear fashion wiping out all of its surrounding mobs.

    as far as the art direction and animations, I actually liked them. Sure, the graphics are toned down but its still a beautiful game.  For an MMO, one of the most beautiful games i've played.

    I miss the story driven portions of the first version, not sure if this is to come or not, or maybe I didnt reach that point yet? I'll admit, theres still a lot I havnt seen, but the few days I spent in alpha didnt really show me anything that struck my interest. I actually liked the first version of FFXIV better because at least it was original.  This just is not.

    theres a lot of truth in what Alyosha said, you guys shouldnt just dismiss it because it comes off strongly negative.

    Voodoo, the alpha wasnt a demo. It was a massivly cut down version of a small segment of the game. The story was disabled due to them still working on it. Alpha means before beta and right after the testers got done. Stop thinking that the alpha was ment to give you a taste of final product we are still at least 6 months away from launch.

    sorry, i thought i made it clear that im aware of the current state of the game. i mean, isnt that what this thread was opened for?

    nah this thread was opened for another person so rip on the fact that the game is wow like and for him to express his deep disturbance over that fact. I would love to see a thread open where people arnt just on there to rag on a non finished non released game simple due to the fact that it is borrowing from other games.

  • FamfritFamfrit Toledo, OHPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    In my opinion, game sucks.

     

    Severe graphics downgrade (my compairson screenshots from Version 1 compared with alpha got the thread deleted last time so i wont repost) . It's really sad to see such nice places become so uglified.   Many people in alpha forums were reiterating this point.

    Lighting is much better, the start/stop run and walk animation had frames removed and no tilting when running, which is disappointing but nothing I would complain about.

    The thing is, you MAY notice a downgrade if you were previously playing at MAX settings. I don't know many people who were though, as many people (myself included) had to reduce shadows or remove AA to get great FPS. I could play on Max but it wasn't optimal.

     

    Also, in ARR, you just do quest-spam, and the quests are pretty unremarkable.  You can basically play the whole game from your minimap.  Not that you'd be missing much, considering the graphics now.

     Nobody is telling you to lvl through quest.  There is other ways to lvl in the game.

    Combat is boring (general cooldowns, and little strategy).  Doubt anyone will really find it very entertaining unless it's the only MMO they ever played.

     What? Same combat if you played FFXIV after the battle changes besides you start with TP now which makes combat better imo.

    Animations suuuuck.  Both the movement animations and also the overly flashy spell animations.  You shoot your bow and it turns into a fireworks display which obscures your entire screen.  So random.

     Movement changes aren't as good I will give you that but nothing to complain about.  Firework display really?  Play other Final Fantasy games then get back to me after casting a spell.

    Invisible walls everywhere.  I keep thinking "why is THAT an invisible?  I could easily jump that."  They're literally everywhere.  Also, jump is the most spastic looking thing you'll ever see.  It's like a really fast-paced squatting animation which occurs while you levitate.

     Read forums they have that for a specific reason which will be changed in Beta not sure if it's NDA or nto so I won't say.

    Oh yeah, and there's excessive zone lines everywhere.  Why is a town split into two zones now for no reason?  If they're going to downgrade all the textures, shouldn't that allow them to actually increase the zone size?  Not split it up into 1/100th of its size.  It's not necessarily a bad thing except for the fact they advertise zone borders now with heinous blue blinking lights.  Lol, it looks like a landing strip at an airport.

    Takes like 2 seconds to load if that.

     

    And the tone of the game is also off. They were trying to make it feel like a Final Fantasy.  But actually, Version 1 felt more like a Final Fantasy than this does.  A realm Reborn just feels... so... childish.   Everyone starts off in a cosplay outfit (replete with schoolgirl skirt).  In version one, you started out in class-specific gear which actually was relevant to the artistic integrity of the gameworld.  But now, nope, you're just a schoolgirl in a red and white miniskirt for no reason.  No reason!

     Really? Complain over starting gear?  Original game had no FF elements till Yoshi took over.... what are you talking about 1.0 had more FF elements?

    It's like S.E. will just stop at nothing to feed people random shit in order to make the game "feel more FF".  Yet it turns out the other way.  The game feels like a cartoon.

     

    Only good thing I can even say about the game is that responsiveness improved.  But only compared to the original game.  Compared to any normal MMO, it's standard.

     

    So Bravo, they ruined many good things about the original, and improved one thing basically.  Two years and 250 staff members well spent?

     

     

     

     

     

    /facepalm

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  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by darkrain21

    1. If you dont like it, dont play it the community doent need another one of you.

    2. Every game you listed that "failed" before wow didnt fail at all. it took years and years to finnally have those games shut down and that only happened due to the companies making a choice. (lets all face it tho no one wanted SWG and COH to shut down)

    3. Has the op even played ARR. All Yoshi-P is taking from wow is a zone like quest system, and the ui. The game stil has FFXIV job system and im sure it will be built apon. Its going to have its signature FF story line. Its non generic class based crafting and gathering.

    4. Whats wrong with copying wow? The game is successfull the games that copy it are succsefull. I.E Rift, Swotr, EQ2, FFXI. All these games took ideas from one another and in a way made themselves successfull.

    If your mad that its a "wow clone" and you condem it for it. You sir dont know how to video game world works and should probally not play any of them.

    1. I don't play it anymore....

    2. The person asked for a list of games that shut down there servers. I provided it. If you want to talk about game failure it's probably best for another thread.

    3. I am in the ARR Alpha. The UI and zone like quest system is not all he is taking from WoW. I don't know how many times I have to say this. What about the soloability of it? What about the short ladder to the top? What about the end game focus (which will be instanced dungeons and raiding)? What about being constantly led by the nose from one area to the next? What about the hybrid classes?

    4. I never said anything was wrong with it in this thread. All I have said is that it is what is being done............and people blow up and throw ridiculous statements around.

    5. I only play good games. Everquest, FFXI, Deus Ex, Xenogears, Xenosaga, The Longest Journey, Zone of the Enders, etc

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by darkrain21
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa
    Originally posted by darkrain21
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa

    Im really hoping beta is an improvement as far as the PVE content goes.  Theres no lack of quests, but its your standard "connect the dots" type of PVE questing progression where you start at quest hub A. and progress to the following quest hubs in a linear fashion wiping out all of its surrounding mobs.

    as far as the art direction and animations, I actually liked them. Sure, the graphics are toned down but its still a beautiful game.  For an MMO, one of the most beautiful games i've played.

    I miss the story driven portions of the first version, not sure if this is to come or not, or maybe I didnt reach that point yet? I'll admit, theres still a lot I havnt seen, but the few days I spent in alpha didnt really show me anything that struck my interest. I actually liked the first version of FFXIV better because at least it was original.  This just is not.

    theres a lot of truth in what Alyosha said, you guys shouldnt just dismiss it because it comes off strongly negative.

    Voodoo, the alpha wasnt a demo. It was a massivly cut down version of a small segment of the game. The story was disabled due to them still working on it. Alpha means before beta and right after the testers got done. Stop thinking that the alpha was ment to give you a taste of final product we are still at least 6 months away from launch.

    sorry, i thought i made it clear that im aware of the current state of the game. i mean, isnt that what this thread was opened for?

    nah this thread was opened for another person so rip on the fact that the game is wow like and for him to express his deep disturbance over that fact. I would love to see a thread open where people arnt just on there to rag on a non finished non released game simple due to the fact that it is borrowing from other games.

    At least, after 15 pages, we are getting to the fact that it is wow like. All I said in the OP concerning its likeness to WoW was "Fuck this." Yes I am deeply disturbed.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon

    It is tailored to casual and newbee MMO players according to the developer.

    Which is fine, but they should have said that right from the start. As far as being a WoW-clone. it is a clone all the way through.

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,241Member Uncommon
    Look at this Necro BS I hope people don't take this thread seriously.
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