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MMOFTW live 5 hypocrisy displayed??????

EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member

I watched the full MMORPG live 5 video. Approximately 1 hour long. After I watched it I thought about how strict this site has become. Ive been a member for a few years now and I have gotten suspensions for VERY trivial things, yet in the video you see blaten insults too ff14 players as well as the F bomb dropped by Bill himself..........now I'm not against any of this......as I think the site was better when it was more lax. However I do feel like to hold yourself to lesser standards than your fans is hypocritical and immature.  What do you guys think?

 

Edit: Just to be clear, this is not a troll or attack of any kind. I would really like a mature response on this issue from someone on the sites payroll. Preferably Bill. I would also like to state that I am a huge fan and supporter of the site and I hope me expressing my views on what I consider a serious issue doesn't go overlooked or become misconstrued. Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    This won't go well for you.

    I don't think they're hypocrites though. Moderators have changed over the years. Some are reasonable. Some are cool. Some have been out of control on what they moderate for a number of reasons. Happens on any forum though.

     

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    This won't go well for you.

    I don't think they're hypocrites though. Moderators have changed over the years. Some are reasonable. Some are cool. Some have been out of control on what they moderate for a number of reasons. Happens on any forum though.

     

    Im just telling it how it is my man. If they ban me for it or suspend me they only serve to reinterate my point.

  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Great YarmouthPosts: 397Member Uncommon

    I watched it and tbh with you they came across as any gamer does, they reacted to news articles how I know my own gaming friends would react, they talked in very much the same manner as me and my friends do when it comes to games, so no I don't believe they crossed the line anywhere in that live session.

    As for strict moderation, well I've not seen it prevelant on the site and I've seen alot of posts that I think deserve some moderation but have gone unchecked.

    Some posters may claim to be victimised but thats just their side of events, 2 sides to every story and as with so much info posted here we never get all of the facts, just what the poster wants you to read.

     

     

     

     

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by AwDiddums

    I watched it and tbh with you they came across as any gamer does, they reacted to news articles how I know my own gaming friends would react, they talked in very much the same manner as me and my friends do when it comes to games, so no I don't believe they crossed the line anywhere in that live session.

    As for strict moderation, well I've not seen it prevelant on the site and I've seen alot of posts that I think deserve some moderation but have gone unchecked.

    Some posters may claim to be victimised but thats just their side of events, 2 sides to every story and as with so much info posted here we never get all of the facts, just what the poster wants you to read.

     

     

     

     

    I've seen people get suspended for using lesser words than the f bomb about a game.........not even a person. I agree, they act as me and my friends do, I just think it would serve them better to lax up a bit.

     

    Edit (Yes I am one of the people that supported square enix. I thought what they were trying to do would make the game reedemable and as I am not hurting for money I subbed. I looked at it more like an investment for a game that I will play when it is finally finished. Does that make it okay for them to insult me as I have been suspended for insulting fans of other games before? Not sure how thats okay.)

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Epicent
    I've seen people get suspended for using lesser words than the f bomb about a game.........not even a person. I agree, they act as me and my friends do, I just think it would serve them better to lax up a bit.

    You can always contest it. Regardless the mod that takes action against you MikeB seems fairly resonable most times in his view when he reviews it.

    Long as it isn't related to SWTOR.

    >_>

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Epicent
    I've seen people get suspended for using lesser words than the f bomb about a game.........not even a person. I agree, they act as me and my friends do, I just think it would serve them better to lax up a bit.

    You can always contest it. Regardless the mod that takes action against you MikeB seems fairly resonable most times in his view when he reviews it.

    Long as it isn't related to SWTOR.

    >_>

    No, I'm not defending my actions. While I didnt do anything horrible it is still the call of the mods to make. I'm just saying it is hypocritical. Perhaps they should hire more competant mods?

  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Renton, WAPosts: 819Member Uncommon

    You make a valid point.  If a site is attempting to display a certain level of decorum in order to attract new advertising dollars, then there should be a bit more level-headed temperament when moderating your user-base-- especially if you expect a modicum of respect from your users but go against the very policies you set forth to restrict their expressions.  It sets a poor example.

     

    I haven't watched MMOFTW 5 yet, primarily because I was turned off by similar behavior briefly being displayed in MMOFTW 4 during their discussion of WoW.

     

    I no longer play WoW, but I sympathize with any fans of WoW that might have felt slightly uncomfortable or insulted by some of the comments being carelessly thrown about during that discussion.

     

    Personal time is personal time.  If that's the way you talk with your friends during personal time that's something else entirely, but when you're creating something with the intention of using it as a public feature on your website, try to keep it somewhat professional and try to keep your user-base in mind.

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by BartDaCat

    You make a valid point.  If a site is attempting to display a certain level of decorum in order to attract new advertising dollars, then there should be a bit more level-headed temperament when moderating your user-base-- especially if you expect a modicum of respect from your users but go against the very policies you set forth to restrict their expressions.  It sets a poor example.

     

    I haven't watched MMOFTW 5 yet, primarily because I was turned off by similar behavior briefly being displayed in MMOFTW 4 during their discussion of WoW.

     

    I no longer play WoW, but I sympathize with any fans of WoW that might have felt slightly uncomfortable or insulted by some of the comments being carelessly thrown about during that discussion.

     

    Personal time is personal time.  If that's the way you talk with your friends during personal time that's something else entirely, but when you're creating something with the intention of using it as a public feature on your website, try to keep it somewhat professional and try to keep your user-base in mind.

    Agreed Bart. The thing that struck a nerve with me was getting suspended for doing the exact same thing as they did in the video. Yet again, I don't have a problem with it but if you can do it then your readers should also be able to mimic that behavior without fear of reprecusion. And as Bill himself said in that very video he feels as if companies should be called out on stuff like this.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Epicent

    Agreed Bart. The thing that struck a nerve with me was getting suspended for doing the exact same thing as they did in the video. Yet again, I don't have a problem with it but if you can do it then your readers should also be able to mimic that behavior without fear of reprecusion. And as Bill himself said in that very video he feels as if companies should be called out on stuff like this.

     

    I wouldn't compare MMOFTW with the forum moderation. The former is done by professionals who know the crowd and how to play to them, and the latter is... something other than that. I don't think it's intentionally hypocritical.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Epicent

    Agreed Bart. The thing that struck a nerve with me was getting suspended for doing the exact same thing as they did in the video. Yet again, I don't have a problem with it but if you can do it then your readers should also be able to mimic that behavior without fear of reprecusion. And as Bill himself said in that very video he feels as if companies should be called out on stuff like this.

     

    I wouldn't compare MMOFTW with the forum moderation. The former is done by professionals who know the crowd and how to play to them, and the latter is... something other than that. I don't think it's intentionally hypocritical.

     

    It may very well be unintentional. That doesn't necessarily mean it should go unchecked.

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,377MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Hey Epicent!

    I'll gladly chime in.  But Mike Bitton will have to as well, if I don't cover it well enough.  

    Essentially, the site's split into three parts:

    1.) Editorial Content - My job to spearhead

    2.) Community Management - Mike Bitton's job to spearhead

    3.) Advertising - Separate from the other two, and run by the site's ownership

     

    I can only comment on the part of the site that is my wheelhouse, and I'll gladly take and react to criticisms about our editorial content.  I do apologize for dropping the F-word. MMOFTW Live is a new show, under the premise of friends/colleagues talking out the issues of the week in a relaxed and jovial atmosphere.  That said, you won't hear F-bombs on ESPN or Good Morning America, and while we're nowhere near that kind of outlet I'll do my best to reign in the cursing... perhaps by drinking more coffee before recording.

    In terms of community management and forum moderation, you'll want to hear from Mike Bitton. That's his area, what he's actually gone to college for, and where I kindly leave all decisions to him. There is a method to his madness, but editorial and community are two separately run entities.

    I hope this helps clear it up, at least partially!

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey Epicent!

    I'll gladly chime in.  But Mike Bitton will have to as well, if I don't cover it well enough.  

    Essentially, the site's split into three parts:

    1.) Editorial Content - My job to spearhead

    2.) Community Management - Mike Bitton's job to spearhead

    3.) Advertising - Separate from the other two, and run by the site's ownership

     

    I can only comment on the part of the site that is my wheelhouse, and I'll gladly take and react to criticisms about our editorial content.  I do apologize for dropping the F-word. MMOFTW Live is a new show, under the premise of friends/colleagues talking out the issues of the week in a relaxed and jovial atmosphere.  That said, you won't hear F-bombs on ESPN or Good Morning America, and while we're nowhere near that kind of outlet I'll do my best to reign in the cursing... perhaps by drinking more coffee before recording.

    In terms of community management and forum moderation, you'll want to hear from Mike Bitton. That's his area, what he's actually gone to college for, and where I kindly leave all decisions to him. There is a method to his madness, but editorial and community are two separately run entities.

    I hope this helps clear it up, at least partially!

    Appreciate the response BIll. FIrst off I'd like to say I think you do a commendable job with MMOFTW among other things. I actually think the direction you are going with those is the direction the site should go in. Also, its not my intention to have you feel as if you should censor yourself. I wouldn't change a thing about the way the videos are done. I would actually like to see a bit more tolerance on the forums. I'm not saying let the trolls run wild by any means. I'm just saying don't make people feel like they can't express theyre opinions or debate each other effectively due to fear from a ban hammer.

  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Renton, WAPosts: 819Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey Epicent!

    I'll gladly chime in.  But Mike Bitton will have to as well, if I don't cover it well enough.  

    Essentially, the site's split into three parts:

    1.) Editorial Content - My job to spearhead

    2.) Community Management - Mike Bitton's job to spearhead

    3.) Advertising - Separate from the other two, and run by the site's ownership

     

    I can only comment on the part of the site that is my wheelhouse, and I'll gladly take and react to criticisms about our editorial content.  I do apologize for dropping the F-word. MMOFTW Live is a new show, under the premise of friends/colleagues talking out the issues of the week in a relaxed and jovial atmosphere.  That said, you won't hear F-bombs on ESPN or Good Morning America, and while we're nowhere near that kind of outlet I'll do my best to reign in the cursing... perhaps by drinking more coffee before recording.

    In terms of community management and forum moderation, you'll want to hear from Mike Bitton. That's his area, what he's actually gone to college for, and where I kindly leave all decisions to him. There is a method to his madness, but editorial and community are two separately run entities.

    I hope this helps clear it up, at least partially!

    And thank you for participating in the discussion, Bill.  It is appreciated, especially when you are receptive to the concerns of your viewership.

     

    There is a concern about the equalization, or lack thereof, of the way our-- the user's-- commentary is monitored and what I have occasionally seen or read in the comments of contributors.

     

    It gets frustrating when a certain tone is set, and we're under the impression that there is a bit more leeway in the way we toss around "smack talk", then come to find out we're slapped with a suspension or warning for basically mimicking the same tones we've witnessed by contributors.

     

    As an example, there were some incendiary posts written by (a contributor's name I won't mention) a while back that were pretty inflammatory.  One of them even encouraged participation from the community... basically asking for a list of slanderous nicknames and insulting descriptions for various types of forum posters.  All in the spirit of good-humored joking and fun, I'm sure.

     

    Next thing I know, that same behavior was being cracked down upon to an excessive level on the forums when it was members of the community saying similar remarks.

     

    It's not that we don't like smack talk, or can't relate to the ideas being expressed, it's a matter of consistency across the board.

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by BartDaCat
    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey Epicent!

    I'll gladly chime in.  But Mike Bitton will have to as well, if I don't cover it well enough.  

    Essentially, the site's split into three parts:

    1.) Editorial Content - My job to spearhead

    2.) Community Management - Mike Bitton's job to spearhead

    3.) Advertising - Separate from the other two, and run by the site's ownership

     

    I can only comment on the part of the site that is my wheelhouse, and I'll gladly take and react to criticisms about our editorial content.  I do apologize for dropping the F-word. MMOFTW Live is a new show, under the premise of friends/colleagues talking out the issues of the week in a relaxed and jovial atmosphere.  That said, you won't hear F-bombs on ESPN or Good Morning America, and while we're nowhere near that kind of outlet I'll do my best to reign in the cursing... perhaps by drinking more coffee before recording.

    In terms of community management and forum moderation, you'll want to hear from Mike Bitton. That's his area, what he's actually gone to college for, and where I kindly leave all decisions to him. There is a method to his madness, but editorial and community are two separately run entities.

    I hope this helps clear it up, at least partially!

    And thank you for participating in the discussion, Bill.  It is appreciated, especially when you are receptive to the concerns of your viewership.

     

    There is a concern about the equalization, or lack thereof, of the way our-- the user's-- commentary is monitored and what I have occasionally seen or read in the comments of contributors.

     

    It gets frustrating when a certain tone is set, and we're under the impression that there is a bit more leeway in the way we toss around "smack talk", then come to find out we're slapped with a suspension or warning for basically mimicking the same tones we've witnessed by contributors.

     

    As an example, there were some incendiary posts written by (a contributor's name I won't mention) a while back that were pretty inflammatory.  One of them even encouraged participation from the community... basically asking for a list of slanderous nicknames and insulting descriptions for various types of forum posters.  All in the spirit of good-humored joking and fun, I'm sure.

     

    Next thing I know, that same behavior was being cracked down upon to an excessive level on the forums when it was members of the community saying similar remarks.

     

    It's not that we don't like smack talk, or can't relate to the ideas being expressed, it's a matter of consistency across the board.

    I guess we will have to wait and see if Mike Bitton chimes in.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Essentially, the site's split into three parts:

    1.) Editorial Content - My job to spearhead

    2.) Community Management - Mike Bitton's job to spearhead

    3.) Advertising - Separate from the other two, and run by the site's ownership

    Well, in a nutshell, i hope the forum head will be happy that you dont care that you make his jobe more difficult because you are in a different company (department, group, company, details, nothing in common altogether :) ).

    Flame on!

    :)

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,377MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Hey guys,

    I also moved this to site suggestions, as it makes more sense there.  ;) 

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,724Administrator Uncommon

    Like Bill said, MMOFTW falls under editorial content and its up to him to decide on what our policy is like in that area. Where these two spheres crossover is in the comments section for these articles and it's here that you'll want to abide by our Rules of Conduct just as you would in any other thread.

    It's actually pretty simple to avoid the banhammer. Just treat each other with civility and respect on the boards, no matter how heated things get, and you'll be fine. Of course, we understand everyone has lapses of judgment now and then and that's what warnings are for! ;)

    Now, if you find something disturbing about what is being said in a piece of our editorial content, you can feel free to express that feedback to us in a constructive manner and I'm sure Bill and co. will take it into consideration when deciding what (if anything) needs to be done about it. Example being the above swearing bit.

    Thanks!

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,978Member Uncommon

    I think asking someone to moderate a post is easier since they are typing it and have a chance to re-read it etc.  Plus the swearing etc. that happens on here is usually directed at another person who the poster disagrees with etc.

    The people who work for the site have the opportunity to control what they say and keep it acceptable to them.

    Hypocritical. . maybe on a basic level.  I liken it to the Fallen Earth rules for chat. . no swearing etc.  People complain and say that the character and NPCs swear.  . . again this is controlled by the games creators and is acceptable.  You cant have a . . . "you can swear but only if we find it acceptable" rule.  Imagine the problems that would create.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Renton, WAPosts: 819Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeB

    Like Bill said, MMOFTW falls under editorial content and its up to him to decide on what our policy is like in that area. Where these two spheres crossover is in the comments section for these articles and it's here that you'll want to abide by our Rules of Conduct just as you would in any other thread.

    It's actually pretty simple to avoid the banhammer. Just treat each other with civility and respect on the boards, no matter how heated things get, and you'll be fine. Of course, we understand everyone has lapses of judgment now and then and that's what warnings are for! ;)

    Now, if you find something disturbing about what is being said in a piece of our editorial content, you can feel free to express that feedback to us in a constructive manner and I'm sure Bill and co. will take it into consideration when deciding what (if anything) needs to be done about it. Example being the above swearing bit.

    Thanks!

    "I'm sure Bill and co. will take it into consideration when deciding what (if anything) needs to be done about it."

    Any sense of civility that could have been conveyed in in your response was quickly nullified by the tone that was made so clear in the above sentence.  "(if anything)"?  Really?

     

    I tried writing to your moderators once, concerning a piece of editorial content and the subsequent bans that people were receiving for mirroring the same tone being used in the editorial, and I got the same run-around and cold-shouldered, non-committal, holier-than-thou "Don't call us, we'll call you" response.

  • bunzagabunzaga Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 30Member

     

    I had the opportunity to run a 150+ member guild web site, as well as a hundreds of member community site (for a short duration), and all I can say, is I would rather have them be hypocrites, and ban or suspend people for being shit heads, than be like other sites, which allow all kinds of trolling and political bull crap go on the forums.

    So I can't say the F word on the forums, and they can in their videos... who cares?  I don't cuss around my mom, but I do in front of my friends...  does that make me a hypocrite?  We have forum rules for a reason, and if you are getting banned or suspended, perhaps you should put more effort into monitoring your own behavior, before worrying about other peoples.

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by bunzaga

     

    I had the opportunity to run a 150+ member guild web site, as well as a hundreds of member community site (for a short duration), and all I can say, is I would rather have them be hypocrites, and ban or suspend people for being shit heads, than be like other sites, which allow all kinds of trolling and political bull crap go on the forums.

    So I can't say the F word on the forums, and they can in their videos... who cares?  I don't cuss around my mom, but I do in front of my friends...  does that make me a hypocrite?  We have forum rules for a reason, and if you are getting banned or suspended, perhaps you should put more effort into monitoring your own behavior, before worrying about other peoples.

    And yet I have seen people get suspended JUST for posting something similar to what you just posted.

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,724Administrator Uncommon
    Originally posted by BartDaCat
    Originally posted by MikeB

    Like Bill said, MMOFTW falls under editorial content and its up to him to decide on what our policy is like in that area. Where these two spheres crossover is in the comments section for these articles and it's here that you'll want to abide by our Rules of Conduct just as you would in any other thread.

    It's actually pretty simple to avoid the banhammer. Just treat each other with civility and respect on the boards, no matter how heated things get, and you'll be fine. Of course, we understand everyone has lapses of judgment now and then and that's what warnings are for! ;)

    Now, if you find something disturbing about what is being said in a piece of our editorial content, you can feel free to express that feedback to us in a constructive manner and I'm sure Bill and co. will take it into consideration when deciding what (if anything) needs to be done about it. Example being the above swearing bit.

    Thanks!

    "I'm sure Bill and co. will take it into consideration when deciding what (if anything) needs to be done about it."

    Any sense of civility that could have been conveyed in in your response was quickly nullified by the tone that was made so clear in the above sentence.  "(if anything)"?  Really?

    Not every piece of feedback warrants action; it was just a caveat. Sometimes we're just going to disagree with certain feedback, but we'll always take it into account when considering any changes as long as it's constructive.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

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