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Pathfinder Online: Information & Media Summary

MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

 

Overview:

 

Kickstarter Project Pages:

Major Crowdforging Promotions:
  • Race Vote
  • Guilds Land Rush!! (guild-pledge level limited)
  • Destiny's Twin (ks-exclusive)
  • Pit-Fighter Combat Tool

 

Goblin Works Design & Development Blogs:

 

Live Interview Discussion (podcast/kick'othon/webcast):

 

Design Specific Discussions:

 
General Interviews & Previews:
 
  • An interview with Pathfinder Online's Ryan Scott Dancey - Massively
  • 20 Questions with… Ryan Dancey, CEO - Goblin Works - linkdeadgaming.com
  • Kickstarter Conversations: Pathfinder Online Interview - kickstarter-conversations
  • The Rise of the Fantasy Sandbox MMO - An Exclusive Pathfinder Online Q&A - TenTonHammer
  • Pathfinder Online Interviews: A Sense of Pride - MMORPG.com
  • An Interview With 'Pathfinder Online' Developer Ryan Dancey - Forbes
  • Pathfinder MMO: A Chat with Ryan Dancey and Mark Kalmes of Goblinworks - enworld.org
 
Unity Engine Announcements:
 

 

 

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Comments

  • MizzmoMizzmo cabot, ARPosts: 128Member Uncommon
    Thanks! I really hope this is as good as the PnP version! We shall see...
  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by Mizzmo
    Thanks! I really hope this is as good as the PnP version! We shall see...

    Welcome. EvilGeek did a awesome one of these Info threads for GW2 image, which was super useful. Early days, so any/all info is useful to group it in one place.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Added a new Interview with Ryan Dancey on Pathfinder Online & Kickstarter Projects:

    Kickstarter Conversations: Pathfinder Online Interview

    Some really good info on the game:

    SandboxExosystemPathfinderOnline

     

    Q: Do you think Pathfinder Online is only appealing to us older gamers who remember when MMO’s were MMO RPGs that actually involved role playing and not just gaming or are newer MMO players demanding a deeper experience as well?  

    A: I don't think Pathfinder Online has a target age demographic.  It has a target player mindset.  If you want to play a game where you can explore, adventure, develop and dominate in a fantasy world like that familiar to you from books, movies, tabletop and video games, and you're tired of theme park experiences, we have something new and interesting to offer you.

     

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Updated OP: TenTonHammer interview; Unity - Pathfinder Environment link in unity web-player

    TenTonHammer: The Rise of the Fantasy Sandbox MMO - An Exclusive Pathfinder Online Q&A

     

    TTH: Most online roleplaying games tend to use heavily modified rule sets based on tabletop gaming. How will Pathfinder Online leverage the core strengths of the Pathfinder RPG?

    -

    Ryan Dancey: With Pathfinder we get a huge library of "objects" that we can immediately use, many of which have been extensively playtested in the tabletop game. There are thousands of monsters, magic items, spells, and character abilities in that library, and we'll use them as the baseline for our design.

    While the game mechanics will be different between the tabletop game and the online game, the tabletop game is a very good testbed for the online game. There will of course need to be lots of balancing and tweaking to bring something from the tabletop game into the online game but we don't have to start from a blank sheet of paper.

    Cont'd...

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,501Member Uncommon
    Need this stickied!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • BlueMountainBlueMountain Philadelphia, PAPosts: 147Member

    New interview (long) at The Demiplane of Gaming videocast

    Extensive interview with the guy who will be handling the backend

    To dream, perhaps to be.

  • MrJones77MrJones77 Dayton, OHPosts: 17Member
    I really hope they can come through with this game. I am loving the ideas they have in mind. Glad I cam e across this list of information, thank you.
  • DakcenturiDakcenturi Nashville, TNPosts: 29Member

    Don't forget to spread the word, as much campaigning as I've done I still get surprised when someone says they didn't know about this. The more word we get out the better chance this has!

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member
    Real RPG developers making a real MMORPG!!

    Down with the Themepark Suits...

    Now is the perfect time to pledge and become a Crowdforger!

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • MrJones77MrJones77 Dayton, OHPosts: 17Member
    I am going to throw in 35. If I had five grand to give I definitely would. If they don't reach the kickstart goal, that just means they have to take a little longer with development correct?
  • DakcenturiDakcenturi Nashville, TNPosts: 29Member
    Correct, with the money it will shave off about 1 year of development time.
  • tersagetersage SydneyPosts: 4Member

    Of course, it looks like Pathfinder will be moving towards a more classic style of fantasy, which is something I always appreciated in the original AD&D 2E.

    But, there is very little detail with intent to design and develop the characters themselves that I saw; just a bunch of environment and character modeling and animations, plus goblins and an environment object destruction which was rather splinter-effect, but not really impressive..

    For more complete news, you could visit here http://www.dotmmo.com/pathfinder-online-5837.html, http://www.mmowood.com/pathfinder-online

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 811Member Uncommon
    It's really too bad that they took this really great cooperative based IP and could only come up with pairing it to yet another forgettable PVP only pure sandbox.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member
    Just like Ultima Online if you look past your fear of death, PvP it's just a small portion of the game.

    There's more non-combat features in Ultima Online then all the junk themeparks game in the past 10 years put together, including WoW.

    I expect PFO will do the same!!

    See RPG developers get it, Goblin Works gets it, Paizo Publishing gets it... RPG is what they do well and have been for many years.

    Bringing back the RPG in online gaming is what I expect they will do!



    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    It's really too bad that they took this really great cooperative based IP and could only come up with pairing it to yet another forgettable PVP only pure sandbox.

    Sorry, where did you get this "PVP only" info? If you read their description, the game is actually focused on lots of other things aswell. They say they will discourage meaningless PvP and there are large areas that are "safe", meaning most of the PvP you will encounter will be consensual (i.e. you were looking for a fight yourself or took the risk and wandered into non-safe areas).

    A lot of their ideas sound like EVE online, which in my books is a excellent design standpoint.

    I actually also pledged yesterday after trying their environment demo and reading further about their design ideas.

     

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 811Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BlackUhuru
    Just like Ultima Online if you look past your fear of death, PvP it's just a small portion of the game.

    There's more non-combat features in Ultima Online then all the junk themeparks game in the past 10 years put together, including WoW.

    I expect PFO will do the same!!

    See RPG developers get it, Goblin Works gets it, Paizo Publishing gets it... RPG is what they do well and have been for many years.

    Bringing back the RPG in online gaming is what I expect they will do!



     

    I go back further then UO, and for the record my forum name was mentioned specifically as one of the most passionate and dedicated fans of the game in Raph Koster's final beta address. I also have no fear of PvP, i play Planetside 2 almost obssessively.

    I was also a developer on one of the most famous sandbox games of all time.

    However, this is not where the money is. People have tried the world building, sandbox PvP game and it performs anemically in all but a select few cases.

    There are more concepts that have been ventured lately that show promise of being both financially successful and creatively innovative without having to be a pure themepark railroad to endgame type system.

    Please don't have a knee jerk reaction that I meant PFO should be WoW2, All I am saying is that there are more colors out there than just black (themepark) and white (sandbox).

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 811Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    It's really too bad that they took this really great cooperative based IP and could only come up with pairing it to yet another forgettable PVP only pure sandbox.

    Sorry, where did you get this "PVP only" info? If you read their description, the game is actually focused on lots of other things aswell. They say they will discourage meaningless PvP and there are large areas that are "safe", meaning most of the PvP you will encounter will be consensual (i.e. you were looking for a fight yourself or took the risk and wandered into non-safe areas).

    A lot of their ideas sound like EVE online, which in my books is a excellent design standpoint.

    I actually also pledged yesterday after trying their environment demo and reading further about their design ideas.

     

    I've read 'pie in the sky' game proposals before.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member
    Lets hope we get some of that grey in are games. And here's hoping PFO will be the trend setters!

    Innovation will come in the form of Indie developers and now is the time to support them more so then ever before.

    Ryan has talked in length about games like Darkfall, Mortal Online, EVE. He has a very interesting take on the pitfalls of open world PvP sandbox games.

    His philosophy on gaming is as grey as it gets right now and we as RPG gamers should support that philosophy not shy away from it.

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    It's really too bad that they took this really great cooperative based IP and could only come up with pairing it to yet another forgettable PVP only pure sandbox.

    Sorry, where did you get this "PVP only" info? If you read their description, the game is actually focused on lots of other things aswell. They say they will discourage meaningless PvP and there are large areas that are "safe", meaning most of the PvP you will encounter will be consensual (i.e. you were looking for a fight yourself or took the risk and wandered into non-safe areas).

    A lot of their ideas sound like EVE online, which in my books is a excellent design standpoint.

    I actually also pledged yesterday after trying their environment demo and reading further about their design ideas.

     

    I've read 'pie in the sky' game proposals before.

    Sure. Of course it's just mostly words at this point. So you assume that even if the developers clearly state that they will not tolerate griefing and that they will discourage meaningless PvP, they will flip their intentions before launch and go the HTFU path with CCP?

    I don't think so. Even CCP is "softening" their game patch by patch. Darkfall: UW has more safe zones than the predecessor. Why would PFO take the hardcore route, when a) other games have shown it's perhaps not working and b) the developers have already stated they want PvP to be (mostly) consent only?

    Just to piss their customers off?

     

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 811Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Just to piss their customers off?

     

    lol, it does seem like that at times, doesn't it.

    No, I don't think it will be done on purpose, but many designers shoot for something and then have to change it for financial, design, or popularity reasons.

    Look at Firefall, they started as a purely coop PvE only bug hunt game with mostly quest content, then let themselves be changed by the community to first include and then be predominantly PvP oriented.

    Now they are without focus and recently had a complete content re-design in an attempt to redefine their game concept.

    It happens, and sometimes the CCO/CD or Lead Designer is as confused as everyone else.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Of Angels, CAPosts: 770Member
    PFO has no desire to win the popularity vote, their design only expects a little over 100k players their first year, a very realistic goal I might add.

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox

     


    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Just to piss their customers off?


     

     

    lol, it does seem like that at times, doesn't it.

    No, I don't think it will be done on purpose, but many designers shoot for something and then have to change it for financial, design, or popularity reasons.

    Look at Firefall, they started as a purely coop PvE only bug hunt game with mostly quest content, then let themselves be changed by the community to first include and then be predominantly PvP oriented.

    Now they are without focus and recently had a complete content re-design in an attempt to redefine their game concept.

    It happens, and sometimes the CCO/CD or Lead Designer is as confused as everyone else.

     

    Well in this case we are talking about a (partly) crowdsourced game, where the developers in theory _should_ have more power over the decisions. Of course it can turn into another Darkfall - a PvP arena with nothing else to do. But even if it is like EVE, where PvP is the big bone, but you have lots of small bones too, I'm happy with it.

     

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    It's really too bad that they took this really great cooperative based IP and could only come up with pairing it to yet another forgettable PVP only pure sandbox.

    The TenTonHammer interview:

    Explains it well: The Rise of the Fantasy Sandbox MMO - An Exclusive Pathfinder Online Q&A

     

    TTH: Will there be any major concessions made to help translate the Pathfinder RPG into a massive, online gaming environment, or is the goal to remain as true as possible to the original IP?

    Ryan Dancey: The rules of the online game will be different than the tabletop game. The tabletop game is designed to focus on small parties of heroic adventurers. The online game is a bigger game in scope - it's a superset of the tabletop experience.

    The tabletop game is built around each player having an essentially unlimited amount of real time to make decisions but the online game will operate in real time so players will not have that luxury. The tabletop game assumes there's rarely more than 10 people at a table and often less, whereas the online game will enable hundreds and eventually thousands of people to be interacting directly - and that has huge implications. These things make the tabletop rules unsuitable for online play.

    The tabletop game is built around a combat engine. The online game is built around an economic engine - combat is a part of that but a subset of the whole. In the tabletop game you have lots of rules for combat and things that happen during combat like spellcasting. In the online game combat is a much smaller portion of the rules - we need rules for crafting, and exploration, and social interaction, and logistics and operating markets, etc. Since the tabletop doesn't have to worry too much about those kinds of systems we have to create much of those rules from scratch.

     

  • DakcenturiDakcenturi Nashville, TNPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    I go back further then UO, and for the record my forum name was mentioned specifically as one of the most passionate and dedicated fans of the game in Raph Koster's final beta address. I also have no fear of PvP, i play Planetside 2 almost obssessively.

    I was also a developer on one of the most famous sandbox games of all time.

    However, this is not where the money is. People have tried the world building, sandbox PvP game and it performs anemically in all but a select few cases.

    There are more concepts that have been ventured lately that show promise of being both financially successful and creatively innovative without having to be a pure themepark railroad to endgame type system.

    Please don't have a knee jerk reaction that I meant PFO should be WoW2, All I am saying is that there are more colors out there than just black (themepark) and white (sandbox).

     

     

    This is exactlly why I think the sandbox background they are going for is going to work. See below, from the MMORPG interview with Ryan Dancey:

     

     

    We think we're at the end of the AAA Theme Park MMO era.  After the Elder Scrolls Online project releases, there are no large AAA Theme Park MMOs under development at any significant publisher or studio.  The reason is that the business model for Theme Park MMOs doesn't work.  They cost too much to make, take too long to develop, and don't create sustainable long term businesses.

    The industry looked at the outlier game (World of Warcraft) and assumed that was the baseline.  Since 2003 we've seen more than a dozen high profile MMO releases in the Theme Park category, and none of them have been able to sustain a paying player population over a million for more than 6 to 9 months.  The budgets have exploded - the average budget for those games was in excess of $100 million, and Star Wars: The Old Republic cost more than $300 million.  The economics just don't work.

    Sandbox games have a different business model.  You can start them with much smaller player populations and much less content.  A Theme Park has to be nearly feature complete the day you ship it, but a Sandbox can begin with just a limited selection of functions and systems, and a small player population, and slowly iterate and grow over time.  This is what EVE Online has done, growing from 20,000 players to more than 350,000 over 10 years.

    This focus on systems, rather than content, is at the heart of Pathfinder Online's plan.  We want to "maximize meaningful human interaction", and so we are focusing our efforts on interesting ways to facilitate that.  We envision a world where thousands of players are interacting constantly in economics, politics, and territorial conflict.  At the same time, thousands more players are busy exploring the world, seeking out the monsters and treasures that are hidden within it, and bringing the spoils of their adventures back home to enrich the whole ecosystem.

    The longer the game runs, the more complex it will become.  The more options players will have.  The more content we'll be able to add in the form of monsters and the threats they pose to the player settlements.  Sandbox design is all about long-term thinking and constantly knitting more and more people into the story they're creating within the game world.

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