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How long do you think the subscription model will last?

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  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member

    If a game comes along that needs a sub, and is a good game, then people will pay it.

    If games keep coming out offering basically the shame shrill... Then who'd pay for it? I think LotRO is a great game, I didn't want to pay a sub for it. I've put about 60 bucks in to the game over time and feel like I've gotten my dollar's worth from it. 

    The Secret World was one of the more fun games to beta for me lately. (FFXIV, TERA, SWTOR, and other clone junk are my comparisons.) I didn't think it was worth a sub mostly because the content was light, and the action was slow. I'd play it, but I didn't want to sub because I didn't think they'd throw enough content at me monthly to deserve it.

    For a subscrption fee now I want daily events, a unique world, monthly content updates, no cash shop, and a feeling that the game has a long term plan.

    NOTHING IS OFFERING GAMERS THIS.

    So nothing deserves a sub.

    a yo ho ho

  • SlyGamer79SlyGamer79 siesta key, FLPosts: 278Member

    I think all these companies need to take a page from Arenanet & Guild Wars 2 and just sell the game with no monthly fee and let the offer of a game with all its content and just buying the game self itself of course this doesn't always keep things going however i think it appeals to more people not to pay a monthly sub and just buy the damn game lol. 

    I tried SWTOR f2p version and by god they butchered the games features you can't have more then one crew skill in f2p for example and you can't do much with that alone. however i guess thats the point to force you into paying for each thing seperately or pay a sub which to me is shifty business but i'm more into the idea of MMO's nowadays with the buy to play idea like Guild Wars games. 

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  • EmeraldFox01EmeraldFox01 PortadownPosts: 9Member

    With the rate of one time payment games and free to play games are comeing out the days of the old sub game are dieing ill agree.   But then again the money you pay with sub games is going into developing the game more and more.  Like warcraft for example.

     

    The only problem I can see is that once you buy into a gmae and have to sub play it you still gotta pay for expansions to the game.  Unless your playing eve online in which the expansions are free.  the reason I mention this is that if you are playing the likes of a free to play game again here lies the same problem.

     

    A possible soloution to this I can see is this.  If an expansion does come out you can let the features of this expansion still be used in the free to play games.  you still need to pay though to get into the areas with the higher quests and new rare items.  Wow recently did something similar once mists was reliesed with the ability to play every race in wow now as well as there starting zones regaurdless of what expansion they got. 

     

    that and they gave there new customers more for there money.  With two expansion packs as well as wow in there battle pack as well as one.  the market is there for free to play gmaes and sub games to go side by side but there are a lot more free to play games out there than sub and this im sorry to say is gonna be the way of it.  sub will die out and free to play will remain

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    I guess the subscription model is about to die since most players dislike it. And other reason is that the games are not as long live models as it was 10 years ago. Nowdays games are beatet in few days and when you finished that part of the game only thing left is anoying raids or even more anoying pvp.
  • SpectralHunterSpectralHunter So CalPosts: 386Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vidir
    I guess the subscription model is about to die since most players dislike it. And other reason is that the games are not as long live models as it was 10 years ago. Nowdays games are beatet in few days and when you finished that part of the game only thing left is anoying raids or even more anoying pvp.

    I'm going to agree with people who said subs will work if the game is worthy of it.  I think there's a good portion of the MMO community that has no problems paying a sub.  The problem is, there hasn't been a MMO in recent years that warrant a sub.  If the service is good, people will pay.

  • Renton81Renton81 LondonPosts: 92Member
    Originally posted by madazz
    I honestly think MMOs will turn into F2P with a sub option for most. Its the cash shop that I am not happy about. That is the only part I question. Will they always be around, and if so, will they offer P2W options like the majority, or will it be just fluff?

    Personally I think MMO's will go the other way round. they will turn F2P with in-game shops. There's so many games leading that way, rather than going for membership.

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Renton81

     

     

    I personally think MMO's should work the way Guild Wars 2 did. One time payment and that gives you access to the game.

    you forgot to add "with cash shop"

    he did for get. However, a decent cash shop its welcome if the game has no sub. GW2 cash shop is decent. If you as a company respect me as your playerbase, I will support you by spending some cash in the CS. On the other hand, if you as a company dont respect me as your playerbase and start seeling power and content unlocks that are game breaking and you want to force me to pay you to be good in your game, then i will not respect you and you will see no support from my pocket.

    That is how i see the whole Dev/Pub - game/model - playerbase issue. But not everyone sees that, and developers lately dont care for us anymore, they care for the money only.

    image
  • spizzspizz BlackForrestPosts: 2,587Member
    Originally posted by Renton81

    Just in the last few years, there have been several MMO's that have released as subscription based games (i.e SWTOR, LOTRO and various others). Most have reverted to the Free to Play model within a matter of months of releasing. Now this isn't to judge how good these games are and whether they are worth subscription or not. What I wanted to ask is, how long do you think current subscription games will last using this monthly fee model? There's the most obvious game (WoW) that still runs off subs. Maybe the reduced number of players is a sign that they will (not saying soon) at some point in the future go completely free to play?

     

    I personally think MMO's should work the way Guild Wars 2 did. One time payment and that gives you access to the game.

    A subscription model is actually the only one I trust.

    Why ?

     

    Because you get delivered a certain standard of quality and sometimes community.

    You get the full game and not only parts of it which you need to buy. If it is a weapon or certain color for nail polish.

    It is the most common subscription model we have in most areas in our life and it works.

    The game content development and patches is concentrated on the game actually and not on an ingame distribution system. 

    There are no tricks or marketing hype ala "free" to play to get you ingame, its about the game itself. 

     

    At the end, a game is rated on the content and gameplay and not solely on how it is distributed or what type of marketing is used. But.....expriences and the reasons mentioned above, tell me that I rather avoid games with new distribution/marketing techniques implemented with games and prefer the conventional sub model.

     

    Some part of the game industry will of course tell that a sub model has no future, of course since they found a new idea how to gain more profit and will play the PR trumpet about it. The next young generation wont feel the quality loss, they grow up with it. In the future they probably wont even know what it means to actually possess a game with the advance of virtual distributions, only paying a fee to actually use it without downlaoding it.

     

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by VassagoMael
    Forever.

    and ever

    Yup^^

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jonoku
    Originally posted by defector1968
    Originally posted by VassagoMael
    Forever.

    and ever

    Yup^^

    i prefer B2P but as long as the game is really worth the sub, then the sub will always exist. However, devs are getting lazier (or brainwashed by greedy publishers) and publishers getting greedier by the minute. IF they dont change their ways for good, subs will be in a much worse state than they are now (with or without WoW in the business).

    image
  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by Scot
    Most western releases that use a F2P system are going hybrid and include a sub. Maybe the sub only model will return as players get fed up of Play to Win. P2W is not where we are at now, it is creeping in, just like F2P started creeping in a few years ago.

    It's actually the opposite. The P2W is getting pushed out in favor of more customer friendly cash shops. When F2P was first introduced to the States, all the games were P2W. Now will each new generation of F2P games, the P2W aspect has gotten less and less until we reached this point where games by in large are not P2W.

  • KruulKruul Houston, TXPosts: 476Member
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    As far as I know only SWTOR, TOR and DCUO abandoned their sub model "within months."  This is a bit of hyperbole.

    Because those games were fail and needed the money.Correct me if I'm wrong but the #1 Themepark and #1 sandbox are both sub models. I still feel the majority or MMO players perfer a non pay-to-win model and that's why WOW continues to thrive. If these other companies would stop developing garbage they wouldn't need to switch to a f2p model to keep their heads above  water. I can't believe people addicted to these crap games continue to fork out the money they do.

     

    If SWTOR was as successful as WOW they would never have switched to F2P.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,734Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlyGamer79

    I think all these companies need to take a page from Arenanet & Guild Wars 2 and just sell the game with no monthly fee and let the offer of a game with all its content and just buying the game self itself of course this doesn't always keep things going however i think it appeals to more people not to pay a monthly sub and just buy the damn game lol. 

    I tried SWTOR f2p version and by god they butchered the games features you can't have more then one crew skill in f2p for example and you can't do much with that alone. however i guess thats the point to force you into paying for each thing seperately or pay a sub which to me is shifty business but i'm more into the idea of MMO's nowadays with the buy to play idea like Guild Wars games. 

          My concern with b2p games is where do you draw the line at downloadable content??....I mean what should be part of that b2p and what should the customers expect to pay for after that?..WIll companies withhold content/features and charge players for it later?....To me the b2p method is the most slippery slope....P2P can be bad also as games like EQ, Rift and WoW charge a monthly and also have expansions that they charge for.....

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by SlyGamer79

    I think all these companies need to take a page from Arenanet & Guild Wars 2 and just sell the game with no monthly fee and let the offer of a game with all its content and just buying the game self itself of course this doesn't always keep things going however i think it appeals to more people not to pay a monthly sub and just buy the damn game lol. 

    I tried SWTOR f2p version and by god they butchered the games features you can't have more then one crew skill in f2p for example and you can't do much with that alone. however i guess thats the point to force you into paying for each thing seperately or pay a sub which to me is shifty business but i'm more into the idea of MMO's nowadays with the buy to play idea like Guild Wars games. 

          My concern with b2p games is where do you draw the line at downloadable content??....I mean what should be part of that b2p and what should the customers expect to pay for after that?..WIll companies withhold content/features and charge players for it later?....To me the b2p method is the most slippery slope....P2P can be bad also as games like EQ, Rift and WoW charge a monthly and also have expansions that they charge for.....

    Not just that but beware of the "cosmetic only" shop. Wow did that come out wrong in GW2. You could buy character slots, bag slots, experience and crafting boosts - none of those were cosmetic. The cosmetic things were actually the ones most dictated by random chance. Spending real money on low chance drop rate items, go figure. Gambling is what it was. Even their last event they still did it. https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wintersday/50-in-gems-later

    That person spent 50 bucks to play their free game lol They could have had a sub game for months with that cash. It just keeps sending the message home that the smart shopping is in a flat fee instead of a nickel and dime. It also, I think, lets the devs realistically deliver a timeline. When I know that I have x dollars a month, I can allocate that accordingly on manpower as a dev. When the money is determined by short-lived content and the laws of scarcity weighed in, guess what, someone stops spending when they get what they want or when they are fed up. Scarce or not, you can't forecast that people will play the PT Barnum sucker each day, well, not those with an ounce of self-respect. If the way to get them to buy things is to inhibit their drop rate to nill and make things random... then you get what you have here. Self inflicted complaints https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Share-your-data-about-perceived-strange-drop-behavior-here

    There may be a lot of stupid people on the planet that you can sucker often. There are also plenty of people that aren't stupid and they will  inform the stupid of things that are discovered so it can't last forever.

    There was a movie where they had a joke this all reminds me of. Two bulls standing on a hill. Little bull says to big bull, hey dad, let's run down there and pork one of those cows? Father bull says, no son, let's walk down there and pork 'em all.

     

     

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    I can't stand cash shops because nothing ruins immersion more than being told in game that I can buy something.  If the game is good, I'll pay a sub.  if devs want to stop chasing their tails around with this, then they need to start doing a better job with designing their games.

    Either that, or just approach it as a normal game, funded by the purchase price and future expansions.  Unfortunately, they still insist on adding cash shops to the mix anyway.

    You make me like charity

  • frblackfrblack Chicago, ILPosts: 21Member

    I think online games should have an initial fee (50ish dollars top), then you can enjoy it for a year free.

    Afterwards, you could get the usual subscription based offers. This way you get a nice start.

    Keeping it free forever (ala GW1) is kinda hard on the game studio side, especially if there are loaded servers because of this.

     

    It would be better also for the game studios in planning cash resoures ahead, they wouldnt spend the initial income right away in hope subs stay :)

     

  • Shana77Shana77 UtrechtPosts: 207Member
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    As long as the suckers are willing to pay...

    If I got to the point that $15 a month is no longer disposable income, I must have really been a sucker in the business aspect of my life. 

    I'll be a $15 a month sucker for a quality product any day.  That's less than 2 beers at the pub with tip.

    What kind of bar charges $15 for 2 beer? Do you get diamonds with that or an erotic massage? 

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    In the city where live you can easily pay 6.50 for a good micro brew. Dollar a drink tip and there's 15. I have often had conversations with friends about how MMOs have saved me money. Mostly joking around but you could make a logical argument.

  • ScarfeScarfe londonPosts: 281Member
    do you want us to actually guess?  3 days?

    currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,912Member Uncommon

    If the OP is referring to PURE subscription, I think the days are numbered.

     

    However, if the OP is refering to a game with a payment model that includes subscription, I don't think that's ending any time soon.

     

    From a corporate perspective, the more revenue streams the better because that allows for the most potential earnings.  In the end, I think the ultimate is:

     

    Box + sub (best subscription plan) + freemium (F2P's optional subscription) + unlimited duration trial (F2P who didn't buy the box) + content packs (everyone except subs) + item shop + expansions (everyone)

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • SaerainSaerain Barrington, RIPosts: 944Member Uncommon

    I think it'll see a revival. Not soon, but some time in the next 8-10 years, I think we'll see flat subscriptions as the standard for a certain subtype of MMO as it becomes more feasible to produce more feature-dense, high-production value sandboxes with working suites of dynamic growth systems.

    Lots of optional peripheral fees to further customize, I'm sure, but anything that's more of an internally consistent world than a series of modular set pieces is naturally better off with subscriptions, I think.

    Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU
  • TickleMeHomoTickleMeHomo BurgasPosts: 28Member
    I remember article,SWTOR team said it will pass time till game goes f2p but after few months ,they went f2p.Games are going f2p,just look ,Planetsside 2/Hawken/MechWarrior i mean serously amazing sci fi games rising  the bar how f2p should look like and devs dnt have other chance but to follow the f2p model.
  • defector1968defector1968 Nar ShaddaaPosts: 393Member Common
    Originally posted by TickleMeHomo
    I remember article,SWTOR team said it will pass time till game goes f2p but after few months ,they went f2p.Games are going f2p,just look ,Planetsside 2/Hawken/MechWarrior i mean serously amazing sci fi games rising  the bar how f2p should look like and devs dnt have other chance but to follow the f2p model.

    ps2 started as a f2p, should not be referred

  • SpectralHunterSpectralHunter So CalPosts: 386Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Saerain

    I think it'll see a revival. Not soon, but some time in the next 8-10 years, I think we'll see flat subscriptions as the standard for a certain subtype of MMO as it becomes more feasible to produce more feature-dense, high-production value sandboxes with working suites of dynamic growth systems.

    Lots of optional peripheral fees to further customize, I'm sure, but anything that's more of an internally consistent world than a series of modular set pieces is naturally better off with subscriptions, I think.

    I mentioned before that subs are odd in that they restrict the company from collecting more money than they can from their customers.  The company restricts themselves.  I think this is why cash shops and F2P designs arose.

    But subs have one advantage which should not be disregarded and something you noted.  With subs, the company can plan better.  They have a better idea of their income because subs tend to be steady unless you do something to chase your subscribers away.  You can predict your revenue month to month. 

    I would guess that F2P has some consistency too but I would think their revenue waxes and wanes month to month.  It's harder to plan long term this way.

    Just my hunch.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    I cannot afford Free to Play MMOs.

    I hope subs last a long time or I'll have to find a new hobby or focus more time on other hobbies I already have.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

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