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Elikals MMORPG predictions for 2013

2

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  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by Rimmersman

    Age Of Wushu is as far away from the norm as you can get, in fact it has a lot in common with EVE. It's one of the few MMO that can claim certain features have never been done before in a MMO.

    Like?

     

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    I didn't say it's all doom and gloom with MMos these days. But... something is missing. There is no one aiming for the big, complete experience. Companies now aim for smaller, more special audiences right away. That sure isn't wrong from an economic perspective, but the scope and aim of new MMos feel... narrow. Solid, but... sort of uninspired. Not the daring, great dream or aim whose concept awes you.

    Sure, games you can have fun with, a while. But they are not worlds, they are just games. And at least I find that lacking.

    I don't see games in pure dichotomies, like total crap or totally awesome. At least *my* perspective isn't that black-white. Any game can have horrible, so-so and good parts. It seems to me, like so many companies now aimed for THE big complete experience for everyone - as MMORPGS should be imo - and failed, that nobodies dares that anymore. And that is not horrible, but still a loss. A fall back. A decline. I don't think I see games as "doom and gloom", but I still can see a valid development of decline in overall scope, quality and creativity in gaming, and I think that IS doubtless the case.

     

    It's like with our Western culture. A decline is a decline, even if we don't fall back into the dark age with one step. It's never about THE big doom, like the Mayan Apocalypse. Decline is step by step. Often so slow and small steps, you don't notice it right away. Only in the bigger picture, in hindsight, it becomes evident.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • bunzagabunzaga Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 30Member

    The problem is, these people are trying to make MONEY, not fun games.

    The industry is living in the past, trying to figure out what 'worked' instead of looking toward the future, and inventing new ideas and mechanics.

    I have played MMOs since Ultima Online.  My room mate told me about this new game he had been beta testing, and I have been hooked on them ever since.  I have to agree with you (Elikal), the industry is at a very sad state indeed.  I stay up at night browsing the internet, expecting to overturn a rock, and stubmling across some new innovative, fun MMO experience, but as the saying goes: "Same shit, different pile".

    The entire 'quest' system needs to just go away.  Honestly, who the hell reads quest story lines anyway?  Don't we all just hit next->next->next and then read the objectives?  If I were creating a mmo, I'd make quests 'reactive' and 'optional'.  Imagine: you are walking through the forrest, and come across an orc encampment.  After killing a couple, you find a kids doll.  This triggers your quest codex to pop up, and telling you that a local merchant is looking for any information about his lost daughter.  At this point, you have the choice: Turn in the doll, or throw it in the trash?  You aren't punished for not turning in the doll, it is up to you.  Do you have time to do it or not?

    The idea of exponential 'vertical advancement' is archaic and also needs to be re-engineered.  I think Guild Wars 2 had some things right in their ideas regarding linear exp, but I really don't like their mentality regarding skills tied to weapons.  Every single warrior with a greatsword has the exact same 5 abilities as every other warrior with a greatsword.  True, they get to choose their heal, 3 utilities and an elite, but there will only be two or three optimal builds.  Where is the character customization in that?

    There are reasons why games like Ultima Online, and Ashersons Call stand out.  It wasn't because of the success of previous games /cough Blizzard, their skill systems are great.  The user is free to pick and choose different abilities, and do whatever they want, within the confines of the rules.  When Ultima Online first came out, there were no ability point caps.  People literally could max out every single skill in the game and play 'God Mode'.

    Dungeon Runners was also a good game regarding player customization, and allowing players to play their way.  Guild Wars 2 had this little 'Play your way' campaign, but it was really a bunch of bull crap.  A game with some sold rules or guide lines, and then allowing the players to freely choose what they want is what we like.  If I want to be a 'tank mage' then let me!

    People claim to hate farming gear, but that is one thing I miss when I play Guild Wars 2.  I hate the idea that once I get out of the noobie zone, I can just jump in to competative PvP, and automatically have every single skill unlocked, and access to the exact same weapons and gear as my enemies.  I guess it is the hardcore side of me, but I like idea that my hard work pays off, and that if I spend the weekend farming a dungeon, I'll benifet from it on the battlefield.

    I loved Shadowbane.  I loved UO.  I really liked SWTORs HuttBall.  I loved DAoCs Fronteer.  I like these games where a single player CAN make a difference in outcome of battle.  I liked the arenas in XSteel.

    It seems like a lot of these games do SOMETHING right, but no game does them all.  Here is MY top 10 list of what the next 'Best MMO' is going to need:

    1. Actual GUILD wars, where guilds or alliances can battle one another for braging rights or territories (guild or player housing areas, etc).  As well as guild communication and event planning tools.  WoW did this fairly well.

    2. Reactive quest system, sort of like GW2 dynamic events, only EVERYTHING triggers them: areas, skill usage, picking up an item, killing an NPC, etc.

    3. Achievements/Titles that effect stats.  I like how they did it in LOTR.

    4. Guild perks based on events the guild does together.  Instead of throwing points at the guild leader, and letting them decide, why not give daily / weekly / monthly guild perks based on things the guild has to accomplish together.  If you want a bigger vault, kill a dragon.  If you want a PvP bonus, take another guilds tower.  If you want an EXP bonus, have 5 or more guild members group together...  etc.

    5. Allow full character development customization.  Create a balanced system in which users can do whatever they want, within the confines of the rules.  If I want to wear plate and cast AOE nukes, or pop out of stealth and heal the heck out of my allies, or maybe I want to be good at collecting resources and building things... just give us abilities, and some rules to follow, and let us pick and choose!

    6. Dodge rolling.  :D  Now that I have experienced it in several games, I am constantly double tapping my directional controls.  Must... Have... Dodging.  And 'arcade style combat'.

    7. Customizable interface.  I like how Rift did this, RaiderZ does it to a smaller degree, but being able to personalize the UI is necessary.

    8. A 'safe place' to level up.  DAoC did this brillantly, only instead of realms, it should be guilds or alliances (number 1).  The 'open world' should be safe for people to explore, and get exp, level up, etc.  But if people want to kill players from other guilds, or unguilded players, they can go to appropriate areas for guild vs guild pvp.

    9. No 'vertical character development'.  If I am level 50, and I strip off all my gear and passive skills, I should have the same number of health, and damage as a level 1.  As I progress through the game, I get better gear, which leads to better stats.  If I level up, I gain skill points, to unlock the skills of my choice.  Some skills require more of an investment than others, such as the ability to wear heavy armor vs light armor or to unlock a certain ability, I may have to unlock other abilities before it.  However, skills should be an 'have' or 'not have' mechanic.  If I have a fireball spell, it is THE fireball spell.  There isn't a rank 1 fireball spell, as well as rank 2 or 3.  I either have it or I don't.

    10. Component based items.  SWTOR did this well.  You keep the item 'skin', but replace the components which make up the stats.  For example, if I like the way a sword looks, I should be able to replace the existing 'damage' component with a better 'damage' component, but keep the same cool looking sword.  Everything would be done this way.  I would also be able to take components out of items.

    Well this turned into a LOT longer than I had first thought.  Great original post, and I agree with you.

    Bunzaga

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,554Member Uncommon

     

    I keep repeating myself.  I keep repeating myself.  I keep repeating myself.  

     

    Games cannot move forward until the system they run on do.  No one will take the risk to make a game station that is not a game station but a PC and sell it CHEAP to the world's MASSES.

     

    Get rid of lag FOR EVERYONE even POOR clientele.  Only then will someone be able to make the ultimate game.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Elikal

    There were games whose rise and fall mattered. Vanguard, Warhammer, Age of Conan up until SWTOR, which IMVPO was the last of the MMOs which "counted".

     

    But today we are so damn flooded with average MMOs and legions of niche-MMOs, of which nobody even expects anything great. Sure, Vanguard, WAR, AoC, SWTOR, they all rose high and fell deep. But they tried to aim for something big. Now, MMos like TESO, Neverwinter... I don't feel it's even worth speculating about them.

    Again, no, none of those titles aimed for anything big, they aimed to be the next WOW replacement, (by emulating far too much of it) which pretty much sealed their fate and sure, I agree, looks like TESO and some others may be continuing down the same path to mediocrity, but you never really can tell until they launch.

    Vanguard never aimed to be the next WOW, infact it's nothing like WOW.

    Well, in the fact that both WOW and VG claim common heritage from EQ therefore there is quite a bit of commonality between them in terms of basic design, (class based, levels, strong quest oriented character progression systems etc) and certainly doesn't make VG all that different, but I'll agree, it wasn't really aimed at the more casual mass market gamer.

    Perhaps great MMOs were only possible when the market only had few, in days of EQ or even when WOW was newer.

    I feel SWTOR was probably the last attempt, and now new MMOs don't even aim for completeness anymore. They aim for a small audience right away. Which is ok, but just not what I want from MMOs, and therefore it doesn't matter. Predictions are not worth it on such a small scale.

    There simply is nothing to really look forward as THE big MMO. It has all too much become a standardized market and too less a place for visions and dreams, for epic proportions of adventure and excitement. It's all just "ok mass-ware". Which is ok, but just nothing to write home about.

    No more dreams.

    No more legends to tell about the development of MMO X.

    We live in a time of gaming barbary, resting on the laurels of greater days and inable to create with the greatness of the past.

    I will agree, I do think the genre needs to crash and burn a little, and drive out some of the weaker offerings in order to let the industry consolidate around fewer, stronger titles.

    Will it happen? Who knows.  But with every new year comes another chance for a great MMORPG, unfortunately some of the ones I'm really looking forward to will not likely release (at least here in the States) in 2013.

    Until then, I still have EVE.   (And oddly enough, I've gone back to Aion over the Christmas break, since it was F2P decided to see what had changed since I left back in 2009.)

     

    Age Of Wushu is as far away from the norm as you can get, in fact it has a lot in common with EVE. It's one of the few MMO that can claim certain features have never been done before in a MMO.

    And in fact, Age of Wushu does look interesting and I'll be watching this title closely to see if it can live up the promise.  (not much of a Oriental Fighting style game, but you never know)

    But do realize that a couple of unique features does not a great MMORPG make, it will be the sum of the entire package which will determine its eventual success or failure.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I get a dry taste in my mouth with regard to TESO and Neverwinter.  The devs' respective visions look very well thought out and the gameplay that I've seen looks smooth, but that doesn't mean I'm excited.  I pretty much resolved to quit while I'm ahead in hoping for a mind blowing MMO once GW2 gave me pretty much what I expected.  Otherwise, I don't see much worth getting thrilled over.
  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

     

    I keep repeating myself.  I keep repeating myself.  I keep repeating myself.  

     

    Games cannot move forward until the system they run on do.  No one will take the risk to make a game station that is not a game station but a PC and sell it CHEAP to the world's MASSES.

     

    Get rid of lag FOR EVERYONE even POOR clientele.  Only then will someone be able to make the ultimate game.

    We will see wow clones just as long as Blizzard announces their (fabricated) 10mio sub numbers and investors after like 8 years still believe that there's  a piece of this cake to get.

    Also, games won't move forward as long as the majority of players are stuck at "tab, kill, loot", respectively "get token -> get gear".

    Everyone is yelling "oh no, another wow clone" for years now, but in case a game actually does something new, people can't adapt or relate to it and you'll see "meh, i'm back to wow"-threads after.

     

    image
  • SQTOSQTO victoria, BCPosts: 188Member
    My prediction is Elikals will try every new mmorpg that comes out then run to these forums to complain about them over and over.
  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member
    Originally posted by Classicstar

    If there is this year ONE MMO proof you wrong is GUILD WARS 2 it was fresh and not even close to WoW clone.

    SWTOR maybe failed but GW2 is not.

    Btw some old skool mmo just released again after 7 years absence Asheron's call 2 and me and many AC2FANS have blast even with server crashes its AWESOME to be back in Dereth so for me it realy don't matter whats released in 2013 AC2 is BACK!!!

    AC2Forever!!!

    even gw2 is repetative and i play it..same has every other mmo i've played..apart from a couple the OP metioned which was to me AOC and Vanguard..AOC because the combat is amazing.the best start  zone in any mmo i ever played.but it went downhill after that..plus it had a bad release .i,e memory leeks every few mins.the game was just not ready.

    Now Vanguard..this was the game i so wanted to work because of the sheer scope of the game..but alas on release another shitload of problems,bad coding etc,etc.its the only game where i was in a group that we would take turns to crash til all of us in the group had crashed..didnt know that was possible.now i logged into vanguard today and it is not the same game..its amazing to play,amazing to look at and the last of a dying breed.but the damage was done on release.the community has really picked up since f2p has you would expect but it has nowhere near the population it deserves.i guess the 2 games the OP mentioned are how not to release a game.its a real shame because if both of them had got it right it may have changed the way these days how mmo's are made.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Elikal

    There were games whose rise and fall mattered. Vanguard, Warhammer, Age of Conan up until SWTOR, which IMVPO was the last of the MMOs which "counted".

     

    But today we are so damn flooded with average MMOs and legions of niche-MMOs, of which nobody even expects anything great. Sure, Vanguard, WAR, AoC, SWTOR, they all rose high and fell deep. But they tried to aim for something big. Now, MMos like TESO, Neverwinter... I don't feel it's even worth speculating about them.

    Again, no, none of those titles aimed for anything big, they aimed to be the next WOW replacement, (by emulating far too much of it) which pretty much sealed their fate and sure, I agree, looks like TESO and some others may be continuing down the same path to mediocrity, but you never really can tell until they launch.

    Vanguard never aimed to be the next WOW, infact it's nothing like WOW.

    Perhaps great MMOs were only possible when the market only had few, in days of EQ or even when WOW was newer.

    I feel SWTOR was probably the last attempt, and now new MMOs don't even aim for completeness anymore. They aim for a small audience right away. Which is ok, but just not what I want from MMOs, and therefore it doesn't matter. Predictions are not worth it on such a small scale.

    There simply is nothing to really look forward as THE big MMO. It has all too much become a standardized market and too less a place for visions and dreams, for epic proportions of adventure and excitement. It's all just "ok mass-ware". Which is ok, but just nothing to write home about.

    No more dreams.

    No more legends to tell about the development of MMO X.

    We live in a time of gaming barbary, resting on the laurels of greater days and inable to create with the greatness of the past.

    I will agree, I do think the genre needs to crash and burn a little, and drive out some of the weaker offerings in order to let the industry consolidate around fewer, stronger titles.

    Will it happen? Who knows.  But with every new year comes another chance for a great MMORPG, unfortunately some of the ones I'm really looking forward to will not likely release (at least here in the States) in 2013.

    Until then, I still have EVE.   (And oddly enough, I've gone back to Aion over the Christmas break, since it was F2P decided to see what had changed since I left back in 2009.)

     

    Age Of Wushu is as far away from the norm as you can get, in fact it has a lot in common with EVE. It's one of the few MMO that can claim certain features have never been done before in a MMO.

    Looks like a clone to me.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • IIIcurrierIIIcurrier Kalispell, MTPosts: 88Member

    Asheron's Call most innovative and well kept MMORPG, hasn't been a good MMO since 1999, I think we need to go backwards.

    ~

    Even Turbine the company who originally produced AC fell into the stock and standard MMO rut with AC2, and they proved again they have no understanding by reviving AC2 again, instead of focusing on a new MMORPG with complete character freedom in skills and attributes, giant open world, with difficult quests instead of being lead along the happy themepark train.

    ~

    AC 1 with revamped graphics = An mmorpg I see succeeding in drawing in players that stay for 12+ years, instead of these recent mmos which you can complete all content and get bored in a couple monthes. This community is a fine example of why MMORPG's are bad ( not fun ) in general, along with the others mmorpg sites out there, here is a quote from one of them... "Millions of gamers can't be wrong", well I beg to differ!!

  • IIIcurrierIIIcurrier Kalispell, MTPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Are...

     

    *drumroll*

    NONE.

     

    I am sorry. No, it's not some kind of joke. More a sort of a different kind of message. You see, there were times when I felt MMOs were moving forward. Not always in the right direction or for better, but there was *some* movement, some sort of development. There were games whose rise and fall mattered. Vanguard, Warhammer, Age of Conan up until SWTOR, which IMVPO was the last of the MMOs which "counted".

    Today, I have no predictions to make. I mean, I could. But today we are so damn flooded with average MMOs and legions of niche-MMOs, of which nobody even expects anything great. Sure, Vanguard, WAR, AoC, SWTOR, they all rose high and fell deep. But they tried to aim for something big. Now, MMos like TESO, Neverwinter... I don't feel it's even worth speculating about them.

    In part it is sure me, who has gotten disullisioned and worn out. But I WOULD play a really cool MMO, just I don't expect it anymore. Perhaps great MMOs were only possible when the market only had few, in days of EQ or even when WOW was newer. Today, when a MMO launches, another MMO launches a few weeks later and then another and another one. With that background, I think it's close to impossible to make something grand. I feel SWTOR was probably the last attempt, and now new MMOs don't even aim for completeness anymore. They aim for a small audience right away. Which is ok, but just not what I want from MMOs, and therefore it doesn't matter. Predictions are not worth it on such a small scale. There simply is nothing to really look forward as THE big MMO. It has all too much become a standardized market and too less a place for visions and dreams, for epic proportions of adventure and excitement. It's all just "ok mass-ware". Which is ok, but just nothing to write home about.

    No more dreams.

    No more legends to tell about the development of MMO X.

    I have this deep and sad feeling that the gaming genre pe se is stuck, like on a plateau. And there are no great new visions. Nothing to see. Maybe it is the normal development when something gets out of the niche for geeks to mass entertainment. But that sure is something I don't feel at home so much anymore. And not because I am burnt out of games or MMOs. I would sure love to bite my teeth into a great game, and a few times I did. Like Skyrim. But such things are rare, even in many other game genres, which I loved to play, like strategy games. Oh the great days of Master of Orion or Civilization II, Heroes of Might and Magic or Command and Conquer. What came afterwards were just shallow epigones.

    We live in a time of gaming barbary, resting on the laurels of greater days and inable to create with the greatness of the past.

    Until there is Asheron's Call/Wurm with an innovative and world changing options to quests like Fable/Witcher/recent Bethesda quests ( though that's about all they did right ).

    Character building, terrain forming, realistic lands and multi-way quest lines.

    Add in that I can control the game with my mind, and maybe CCP's carbon engine + Euclideon's engine , and I'll pay for it.

  • SkilialSkilial Lee''s Summit, MOPosts: 30Member

    I hate to say this, but the BEST idea for a sandbox (gulp) "MMO" in a LONG time is undeniably...MINECRAFT. It allows you to do everything you want in a game.You can group, PvP, RP, and craft. The crafting is extremely detailed AND FUN! There is no questline. There are no real levels. Players can create and participate in their own worlds. Yeah, the graphics are horrible, but lets face it. Minecraft is the closest thing to be able to break the traditional MMO mold in years.

    image (no I am not trolling)

     

    If someone (devs) had the money or backing to take a Minecraft idea to the 64-bit world, it might be a (snicker) game-changer. 

    Yes I realize several new MMOs are claiming to have user created content.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    ArcheAge

    ArcheAge is an upcoming fantasy sandbox MMORPG by Korean developer, XLGames. Headed by Jake Song, also known as the “Godfather of Lineage”, ArcheAge is an ambitious project that is sure to turn the heads of anyone after the ultimate fantasy sandbox MMORPG. Players enter a world that can be shaped and changed by player interaction on a whole new level. Build houses, player villages, farms, castles and more. Terraform the landscape, plant trees and crops, all these things are possible.

    Blade & Soul

    Blade & Soul is another MMORPG slated for a 2012 release in October, however we aren’t expecting it for NA/EU audiences until 2013 unless we’re really lucky. B&S is a fantasy martial-arts MMORPG in development by Korean game developer, NCSoft. Featuring an intense and refreshing combat system, players can master different styles of Japanese martial arts. Run along walls, utilize palm wind and feel the very essence of martialism, chivalrousness and loyalty.

    BLESS

    There seems to be a trend here, this one is from another Korean Developer, Neowiz. BLESS is an upcoming fantasy action-MMORPG with a team of over 150 developers, some of which worked on Aion, TERA and Lineage II. Details are still scarce on this title, but so far it does look promising and is a title I will definitely be keeping my eye on, and you should too if you are a bit of an action-nut.

    Elder Scrolls Online

    Oh boy, this could be a disaster in the making, and probably will be. The Elder Scrolls Online is an upcoming fantasy MMORPG by Zenimax Online, based on the popular series of single-player, open-world RPGs. The game is being headed by the guy who “Ruined Dark Age of Camelot” and will allow players to explore all of Tamriel, not just one location like in previous titles. This particular MMORPG will feature hubless questing, three factions for PvP (just like DAoC) and more.

    Everquest Next

    EverQuest Next is an interesting concept, SOE is taking the EverQuest universe and rather than continuing the story they are “re-imagining the EverQuest universe”. The MMORPG won’t be a sequel but will still retain some familiar faces, races and places. This might get a lot of EQ fans giddy, hence why it is included in the list, but to me “re-imagining” just says they were lazy and decided to just re-texture the zones, throw in a new story and call it a new title (aka MW3).

    Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance

    Another renowned title is bring out an odd sequel as well, this time it’s Lineage. The previously expected Lineage III has now turned out to be a sequel to the original Lineage rather than the second. Lineage Eternal will feature the diablo-eque camera view and gameplay with Lineage seige battles and fighting thrown into the mix. Original Lineage fans will have a ball in this MMORPG.

    Pathfinder Online

    Avid table-top RPG fans may have been the only ones to pick up on this project, which seemingly has been flying under the radar. Currently being developed by Goblinworks and Paizo, Pathfinder Online is set to be a hybrid of both Theme Park MMORPG and Sandbox MMORPG. Also, players will have the choice of either paying a subscription or playing for free with the option of cash shop purchases.

    Survarium

    Survarium is a logical addition to the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe, throwing players into a post-apocalyptic free-to-play MMOFPS. The game is currently being developed by Ukrainian company, Vostok Games. Survarium will throw players into an atmospheric world of a crashed civilization, factions and loners, stalkers and hunters, all surviving in the one sandbox together.

    The Repopulation

    This is a title that I, amongst many others, have been following closely. Deemed the last hope for Pre-CU SWG fans, this sandbox Sci-Fi MMORPG has a feature list so impressive that players from all backgrounds shouldn’t be able to hold their drool. Players take on the role of a second generation clone who’s job is to re-inhabit the world. Players can join up with one of two factions or seperate from society completely and create their own rogue faction.

    Wildstar

    Finally we reach the last title to keep an eye on in our list, Wildstar. Comprised of ex-World of Warcraft staff, who have been working on this fantasy MMORPG or over four years now. Wildstar features very cartoony and stylized graphics, while maintaining what is claimed to be hardcore gameplay. The game is set in a world of Nexus with elements of both magic and technology.

    Taken from http://www.mmogames.com/gamenews/5243/top-mmorpgs-to-look-forward-to-in-2013/

    Some I know of, some where new to me, can't say I am excited about them, but I am sure I might look into some of them some more. Shame you didn't took the time to cover these as they do "seem" to offer new things.

     

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    OP, I agree with you. Although I would place the context of your statement in a 5 year period.

    The fact so many MMO's are being made is a good sign.  Albeit, lots of them are trying to carve out thier slice of the "casual drone" market.  The main point to take home is that there are numerous investors that see the MMO market growing and are willing to invest in more MMO's being created.

    I just dont think we will see a singular MMO, that at one time, revolutionizes the genre or creates a completely new standard.  We will probably see incremental changes as MMO's are iterated upon and new hardware technologies come into play. 

    The only way to bypass these incremental changes and experience something more grand (different) would be to unplug.  Dont play or follow MMO's for 3 - 5 years.  Come back to the genre after a large number of incremental changes have occured.  I am currently in the process of convincing myself to do this, but I need that PvP fix.

    image

  • OnecrazyguyOnecrazyguy Renton, WAPosts: 83Member
    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    Asheron's Call most innovative and well kept MMORPG, hasn't been a good MMO since 1999, I think we need to go backwards.

    ~

    Even Turbine the company who originally produced AC fell into the stock and standard MMO rut with AC2, and they proved again they have no understanding by reviving AC2 again, instead of focusing on a new MMORPG with complete character freedom in skills and attributes, giant open world, with difficult quests instead of being lead along the happy themepark train.

    ~

    AC 1 with revamped graphics = An mmorpg I see succeeding in drawing in players that stay for 12+ years, instead of these recent mmos which you can complete all content and get bored in a couple monthes. This community is a fine example of why MMORPG's are bad ( not fun ) in general, along with the others mmorpg sites out there, here is a quote from one of them... "Millions of gamers can't be wrong", well I beg to differ!!

    ^^ this... No game has matched the features of this game, ever. For those of you that say (and I agree with you) that the current stock of games including WoW, GW2, SWTOR, etc. are too easy, give this a shot. Yes the graphics are dated, but if you play more than 20 minutes, you'll soon forget the graphics and be hooked.

    AC2 - not sure what Turbine is doing, I never cared for it, still don't really care for it but for $12/mo for both AC1 and 2, can't really go wrong. I hope one day they are able to make either AC1++ with better graphics & some features, or AC3, a true successor to AC1 (AC2 was NOT).

    GW2 - Well, this game was interesting (even having worked on it) but it's crashing and burning because they missed the boat on too many things (end game, character progression, etc.) It sure is pretty, but again, after 20 mins, you forget about the graphics.

    Neverwinter? - Just another crap Perfect World game IMO...

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Tryouts for the Self-Pity All Stars?

    He played, in post one, pretty much the ultimate prophet 'o doom already.  The rest of the thread doesn't seem to have any particular point.

    Yup.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    Asheron's Call most innovative and well kept MMORPG, hasn't been a good MMO since 1999, I think we need to go backwards.

    ~

    Even Turbine the company who originally produced AC fell into the stock and standard MMO rut with AC2, and they proved again they have no understanding by reviving AC2 again, instead of focusing on a new MMORPG with complete character freedom in skills and attributes, giant open world, with difficult quests instead of being lead along the happy themepark train.

    ~

    AC 1 with revamped graphics = An mmorpg I see succeeding in drawing in players that stay for 12+ years, instead of these recent mmos which you can complete all content and get bored in a couple monthes. This community is a fine example of why MMORPG's are bad ( not fun ) in general, along with the others mmorpg sites out there, here is a quote from one of them... "Millions of gamers can't be wrong", well I beg to differ!!

    ^^ this... No game has matched the features of this game, ever. For those of you that say (and I agree with you) that the current stock of games including WoW, GW2, SWTOR, etc. are too easy, give this a shot. Yes the graphics are dated, but if you play more than 20 minutes, you'll soon forget the graphics and be hooked.

    AC2 - not sure what Turbine is doing, I never cared for it, still don't really care for it but for $12/mo for both AC1 and 2, can't really go wrong. I hope one day they are able to make either AC1++ with better graphics & some features, or AC3, a true successor to AC1 (AC2 was NOT).

    GW2 - Well, this game was interesting (even having worked on it) but it's crashing and burning because they missed the boat on too many things (end game, character progression, etc.) It sure is pretty, but again, after 20 mins, you forget about the graphics.

    Neverwinter? - Just another crap Perfect World game IMO...

    Pretty much discredits everything you would hope to come across to others, paired with whay you say about GW2 which is far from crashing and burning.  Another hater IMO...

    FYI... PWI is a publisher for Neverwinter and Cryptic are the ones that are doing the game along with Wizards of the Coast in the picture PWI will have the say only with dealing with how the CS will be which already Cryptic has made statements on what it will be like.  The game itself is Cryptic and Wizards of the Coast.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Everquest Next

    EverQuest Next is an interesting concept, SOE is taking the EverQuest universe and rather than continuing the story they are “re-imagining the EverQuest universe”. The MMORPG won’t be a sequel but will still retain some familiar faces, races and places. This might get a lot of EQ fans giddy, hence why it is included in the list, but to me “re-imagining” just says they were lazy and decided to just re-texture the zones, throw in a new story and call it a new title (aka MW3).

    im not sure what to expect from EQ3

    but im expecting EQ3 to be different --  EQ2 was much different than original EQ

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Tryouts for the Self-Pity All Stars?

    He played, in post one, pretty much the ultimate prophet 'o doom already.  The rest of the thread doesn't seem to have any particular point.

    Did you have to graduate high school to get hired for the mmorpg.com "Thread Quality Control and Relevancy Police."  How much does it pay. 

    I bet you work long hours.  You sound lonely.  Either way, keep up the good work.

    image

  • OnecrazyguyOnecrazyguy Renton, WAPosts: 83Member
    Originally posted by Ambros123
    Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    Asheron's Call most innovative and well kept MMORPG, hasn't been a good MMO since 1999, I think we need to go backwards.

    ~

    Even Turbine the company who originally produced AC fell into the stock and standard MMO rut with AC2, and they proved again they have no understanding by reviving AC2 again, instead of focusing on a new MMORPG with complete character freedom in skills and attributes, giant open world, with difficult quests instead of being lead along the happy themepark train.

    ~

    AC 1 with revamped graphics = An mmorpg I see succeeding in drawing in players that stay for 12+ years, instead of these recent mmos which you can complete all content and get bored in a couple monthes. This community is a fine example of why MMORPG's are bad ( not fun ) in general, along with the others mmorpg sites out there, here is a quote from one of them... "Millions of gamers can't be wrong", well I beg to differ!!

    ^^ this... No game has matched the features of this game, ever. For those of you that say (and I agree with you) that the current stock of games including WoW, GW2, SWTOR, etc. are too easy, give this a shot. Yes the graphics are dated, but if you play more than 20 minutes, you'll soon forget the graphics and be hooked.

    AC2 - not sure what Turbine is doing, I never cared for it, still don't really care for it but for $12/mo for both AC1 and 2, can't really go wrong. I hope one day they are able to make either AC1++ with better graphics & some features, or AC3, a true successor to AC1 (AC2 was NOT).

    GW2 - Well, this game was interesting (even having worked on it) but it's crashing and burning because they missed the boat on too many things (end game, character progression, etc.) It sure is pretty, but again, after 20 mins, you forget about the graphics.

    Neverwinter? - Just another crap Perfect World game IMO...

    Pretty much discredits everything you would hope to come across to others, paired with whay you say about GW2 which is far from crashing and burning.  Another hater IMO...

    FYI... PWI is a publisher for Neverwinter and Cryptic are the ones that are doing the game along with Wizards of the Coast in the picture PWI will have the say only with dealing with how the CS will be which already Cryptic has made statements on what it will be like.  The game itself is Cryptic and Wizards of the Coast.

    Not hating, just look at the population - make your own decision. Loving GW2 while it's population dwindles doesn't change the fact that it's not meeting Mike O'Brien's expectations, nor many of those by what used to be the large player base.

    I'm very aware that the game is being made by Cryptic, the guys that did a pretty poor job on STO and CO. Tell me a single, GOOD game that PWI has published. I bet you can't.

    As for PWI not having much say, you're sadly mistaken. They own Cryptic and are funding the game development. Whether we like it or not, THEY call the shots.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Maephisto
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Tryouts for the Self-Pity All Stars?

    He played, in post one, pretty much the ultimate prophet 'o doom already.  The rest of the thread doesn't seem to have any particular point.

    Did you have to graduate high school to get hired for the mmorpg.com "Thread Quality Control and Relevancy Police."  How much does it pay. 

    I bet you work long hours.  You sound lonely.  Either way, keep up the good work.

    When someone's inner censor is malfunctioning we have to extend a helping hand, don't you think.

    Kim Yong Il believed he was a demi-god among many other things. And you can't really blame him cause everyone around him said so. What else was he supposed to believe? He could've used someone behind his shoulder saying "Really tho - you're not." Consider Icewhite that guy.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
     

    Not hating, just look at the population - make your own decision. Loving GW2 while it's population dwindles doesn't change the fact that it's not meeting Mike O'Brien's expectations, nor many of those by what used to be the large player base.

    I'm very aware that the game is being made by Cryptic, the guys that did a pretty poor job on STO and CO. Tell me a single, GOOD game that PWI has published. I bet you can't.

    As for PWI not having much say, you're sadly mistaken. They own Cryptic and are funding the game development. Whether we like it or not, THEY call the shots.

    #5 on xfire. Pretty stable on the graph for the last month. Better than ALL MMOs except WOW. I would say if that is not a "large player base" ... no MMO has one.

    It has a lot more people playing than Eve, for example.

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    Asheron's Call most innovative and well kept MMORPG, hasn't been a good MMO since 1999, I think we need to go backwards.

    ~

    Even Turbine the company who originally produced AC fell into the stock and standard MMO rut with AC2, and they proved again they have no understanding by reviving AC2 again, instead of focusing on a new MMORPG with complete character freedom in skills and attributes, giant open world, with difficult quests instead of being lead along the happy themepark train.

    ~

    AC 1 with revamped graphics = An mmorpg I see succeeding in drawing in players that stay for 12+ years, instead of these recent mmos which you can complete all content and get bored in a couple monthes. This community is a fine example of why MMORPG's are bad ( not fun ) in general, along with the others mmorpg sites out there, here is a quote from one of them... "Millions of gamers can't be wrong", well I beg to differ!!

    ^^ this... No game has matched the features of this game, ever. For those of you that say (and I agree with you) that the current stock of games including WoW, GW2, SWTOR, etc. are too easy, give this a shot. Yes the graphics are dated, but if you play more than 20 minutes, you'll soon forget the graphics and be hooked.

    AC2 - not sure what Turbine is doing, I never cared for it, still don't really care for it but for $12/mo for both AC1 and 2, can't really go wrong. I hope one day they are able to make either AC1++ with better graphics & some features, or AC3, a true successor to AC1 (AC2 was NOT).

    GW2 - Well, this game was interesting (even having worked on it) but it's crashing and burning because they missed the boat on too many things (end game, character progression, etc.) It sure is pretty, but again, after 20 mins, you forget about the graphics.

    Neverwinter? - Just another crap Perfect World game IMO...

    Well, Illcurrier proved he knows absolutely nothing about AC2 when he made his ignorant themepark comments about the game. Sure, AC2 had some of the groundwork for themepark gaming (which Blizzard took to the next level), but the game still promotes a ton of exploration and makes you figure out the best way to go about things after the first little string of quests that are just an extended tutorial. Just because a game has quests doesn't make it a themepark.

    Asheron's Call 2 is a labor of love for some of the staff at Turbine. I have no idea what their plans are, but the game is heavily populated at the moment.

    As far as Asheron's Call 1 goes, it was my first mmo so it has a special place in my heart. However, it's far from the perfect game or the perfect gaming system. AC has a great amount of freedom with how skills and attributes are handled, but that's also it's greatest weakness. Far too many folks fell into the trap of "perfect" templates. Og Mages, War Mages, Drain Mages, Three School Archers, etc were all shining examples of how a "free" system will break down to flavor of the month templates. You effectively make "classes" in a class-free game. Not only that, but eventually design decisions were made because of the rise of perfected templates. Yes, Turbine fixed some of this, and a more wide range of templates are viable, but in reality there's little freedom. You can't pick skills at random and have a functional character, you have to pre-plan and build your character. It becomes a game about micromanagement and spreadsheets. Hell, even Jessica Mulligan called AC1 "the part-time job", at her 2004 keynote speech at Turbine Nation (which I was an attendee).

    AC3, if they decide to make it, would be very well served to be a blend of the first two games. Completely open world, with tons of areas to explore and that exploration rewarded. However, the skill system should have limitations placed on it to promote a wider range of diversification (like you can't spec a Life school and War school because of opposing dictomies), additionally keep melee and missle combat fun like it is in AC2 and not the boring auto-attack b.s. that it is in AC1. No quest hubs, but optional quests spread throughout the world like they are in both AC games. Turbine has the basis of an excellent game in both AC games, they just need someone with vision to move them forward.

  • ElboneElbone Chambly, QCPosts: 60Member Uncommon

    The following is not my quote nor does it relate to MMOs particularly, but to gaming in general.  I took it watching a nostalgic channel on youtube presenting games from the 80s.

    - I feel like the people behind games back then were the marginalised artists of society who'se only exit was the quasi inexistent gaming industry, and thus to make a break through they had to put all they had in their guts to succeed and be noticed.

     

    Quote ended there but you could say that nowaday, games atract all kind of people that follow a guideline to make games. Emphasis on guideline.

    The best games I've played had, looking back, a risky background and unorthodox approach that would scare investors nowaday.

    ...and MMOs more than most games, require a huge amount of financing....they HAVE to go through the safest road , the one that's worked in the past.

    To me that's the core of the problem, that one young developper with a revolutionary idea will be send back to his home jobless without even being given a chance, so here we are hoping for *the beatles of gaming* which were turned back once by a producer saying "Guitar bands are on the way out"

     

    P.s: Sry for my innacurate english, not my first language.

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