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This is what EVE should have been like

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Comments

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,295Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    People that allready like and play EVE dont think nothing should be added.

    Granted , that is fine.

    But what about many others that tried and found EVE missing the other part - AI computer controlled part ?

     

    Granted EVE should not be like ELITE (Although for your information EVE was based on ELITE)

    When infact EVE could be much more - It could have what EVE has and than also what ELITE has.

    Yes , you could have that burger and fries too ... and milkshake.

    But you guys are like : Let burger be burger , and let other resturant serve milkshakes.

     

    I see it simple as this : Game better -> more players playing = everyone profits

    No one said nothing should be added to EVE. You said EVE should have been like this particular game and they said, "No, EVE should be like EVE." Did you misunderstand or did you actually think this crowd would fall for that old trick?

     

     

      i watched the video, and yeah, good luck with that kind of thing.. but.. Eve should have been like that, is avoiding the huge and incontrovertible fact that Eve is how the players have made it, if we'd wanted something more like elite dangerous then somehow i think it would have ended up developing along those lines as time progressed and the game evolved. It didnt so the OP's opening statement is clearly ignoring Eves own history. Eve is the game it is today because of the players. image

  • GarkanGarkan BirminghamPosts: 552Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?


     

    None. CV means next to nothing for management position. It is the mind that matters, not the experience.

     

    -Picardfacepalm.jpg-

    Exactly, the mind matters. Verifiable proof of experience shows the person has a mind suited for the project. Other than references and CVs how else are you supposed to know if a person is likely to be capable of completing a project? Personally I find telepathy and tarot cards to be fairly unreliable, you might have had better results though

    Currently playing:

    EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

    Gravity Rush,
    Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

    (Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
    Company of Heroes II.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Personally, I would go for the latter
     

     

    Starting small means releasing sub-par product, something utterly stupid on highly competitive and saturated market such as MMO market...

    I guess you could release such game and get 1-2k subs(or equal revenue) but that won't get you far nor provide much opportunity to expand your business.

    Are we still talking about Elite and SC? I thought we were, because that's what this topic is about.

    SC has already almost 100k "subscribers" in the form of people who have pledged for the game. There is no information on the possible sub model anyway, so there might even not be one. Also, they will be releasing the single player game first, which, if anything like Wing Commander, will sell quite a bucketload of copies and bring in more developement money.

    The MMO part, when released, will be golden if there will be even a fraction of the features planned. Can you name me the other space MMO games with space sim like combat? Yeah... highly competitive and saturated indeed. If EVE would be directly competing with all MMOs in the market it would have died years ago.

     

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Garkan

    Verifiable proof of experience shows the person has a mind suited for the project.

    It doesn't... At best it provides information that past employer found abilities and experience of the employee sufficient enough to keep the person employed.

    That does not tell you much, everyone has different standards and requirements and fancy phrases and labels might represent just anything.

    ie. door-to-door salesperson is called Regional marketing and sales manager these days..


    The mindset, personality, abilities and skills of applicant aren't represented in CV.

    There are various methods to determine those - all sort of psychological profiling, assessments, questionnaires, and other crap is fashionable these days. I have even seen graphology being used in recruitment process.

    What I personally believe in and I did myself when recruiting lower management staff is old fashioned interview that included homework and scenarios.

  • mklinicmklinic Pottstown, PAPosts: 1,435Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sunshadow21

    The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself...

    Sort of like World of Darkness? :P

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    It really depends upon the industry and level of management/position being discussed.

     

    For a general rule of thumb, for general lower level management positions, it's fairly safe to say that CV/track record gets people through an inital preliminary vetting process and not much more. i.e. it weeds out total no hopers.

     

    The vast majority of the time, performance in multiple interviews/role play sessions and in various aptitude tests (as well as just "fitting in") is what gets someone the job.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Are we still talking about Elite and SC? 

    Yes, the drawing board and water based promises but you do not seem to make a difference between those and actual released game...

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by mklinic
    Originally posted by sunshadow21

    The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself...

    Sort of like World of Darkness? :P

    Basically, yes. And since they are already working on World of Darkness, it makes no sense to try to have a duplicate team doing the same thing for EVE. Once World of Darkness has been released, then porting the code over to EVE, and coming up with the other necessary elements,  with the help of the people no longer needed to build World of Darkness becomes much, much easier and more viable. Until then, it makes no sense of CCP to put that much effort on an aspect of EVE that is not a core part of the game.

  • mklinicmklinic Pottstown, PAPosts: 1,435Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sunshadow21
    Originally posted by mklinic
    Originally posted by sunshadow21

    The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself...

    Sort of like World of Darkness? :P

    Basically, yes. And since they are already working on World of Darkness, it makes no sense to try to have a duplicate team doing the same thing for EVE. Once World of Darkness has been released, then porting the code over to EVE, and coming up with the other necessary elements,  with the help of the people no longer needed to build World of Darkness becomes much, much easier and more viable. Until then, it makes no sense of CCP to put that much effort on an aspect of EVE that is not a core part of the game.

    I was just poking fun, and not to get too far on a tengent, but my initial understanding was that ambulation/wis/incarna/etc was using the WoD engine. So, if that is accurate, the investment required to port would be less then a full seperate team with resources being shareable between games/teams.

    Regardless of the specifics though, yeah...I was excited for the whole walking-in-stations thing and felt pretty underwhelmed by the delivery. That's just my opinion though and mileage may vary. Despite my anticipation/excitement, post-delivery I'm perfectly ok with the feature being a low priority in their development plans.

    To the original topic (sort of), I do like that EvE tries to add new aspects to the game be it walking in stations, the scanning revamp, incursions and various other features that have met with differing levels of success. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. If features from other games make sense, then sure, but all means put them through some critical review and see if they fit the EvE universe. If not, discard and move on.

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Garkan

    Verifiable proof of experience shows the person has a mind suited for the project.

    The mindset, personality, abilities and skills of applicant aren't represented in CV.

    Got to laugh. Do you actually have a job?

    I give you that personality and social skills are best found out in an interview but if you don't think a C.V. displays a person's abilities and skill sthen you are living in a dreamworld.

    Some interviews might contain some form of test or Q&A to verify a persons knowledge but if you do not use a C.V. as the framework to choose who is suitable and who is not, and for that matter a persons verifyable track record for the position that are apllying for, then you are basically guessing.

    I have been contracting for 24 years now and have probably, over the course of my working like, had about 100 interviews and interviewed about 50 people. I am invited (or invite who to interview) by looking at each C.V. and selecting the best candidate for teh job.

    How many people have you employed simply because your intuition told you they could do it or did you get a C.V. first and select the best candidate.

    Anyway, these guys started the genre and are still powerful names in the industry because of the reputation they have earned and the work they have for all to see.

    Come back and talk down their credentials when you have released a few games yourself and have been in the industry for almost 40 years.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Maelwyddinterviewed about 50 people

    I found your problem.

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    Anyway, these guys started the genre and are still powerful names in the industry because of the reputation they have earned and the work they have for all to see.

    Come back and talk down their credentials when you have released a few games yourself and have been in the industry for almost 40 years.

    I hate to spoil your point, as most of it is more accurate than not, but recent history with several high profile names, but games and long time devs, would tend to suggest that having a past record of success is not much of an indication of future success. It doesn't necessarily hurt, but the boost from experience can be overstated as well.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Are we still talking about Elite and SC? 

     

     

     


     

    Yes, the drawing board and water based promises but you do not seem to make a difference between those and actual released game...

    Of course I do, but the fact is we cannot judge Star Citizen by actual gameplay yet, because there is none. Therefore the only thing we can do is to compare their design plan vs. an actual released game. Yes, it's an unfair comparison, since we cannot know which features will make it into the finished game and which won't.

    Good job of dismissing the rest of my post with just that. It seems you are not really interested in discussing, but instead try to wave everything off with generalizations and negative assumptions. Fine.

     

  • VassagoMaelVassagoMael Covington, LAPosts: 555Member
    The name of that game sounds like something a home schooled child would name their DnD character.

    Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
    Subscription = Actual content updates!

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by tom_goreYes, it's an unfair comparison

    It isn't unfair, it is the only way to judge development effort - whether design goals were met and how proposed ideas were implemented.


    All you can do is discuss proposed ideas, which isn't much but only thing you have.

  • KanesterKanester WalesPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Yes OP Because EVE has failed so much...... Come on...

    image

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by sunshadow21
    Originally posted by Rednecksith
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...

    Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase

    Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.

    Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.

    The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself, and that would inevitably drain resources away from the space side of the game, which is what people are concerned about. CCP simply doesn't have the resources right now to pull it off wihout harming their existing product, and they've been wise enough to realize this. I for one would enjoy some avatar based gameplay, but until they can make it happen in a way that doesn't hurt the existing game, I'd rather it stay shelved.

    Gamers are always "concerned" by something they don´t even have a clue about.

    CCP has a solid, steady income from a huge player base, I don´t see ANY reason why they couldn´t do the avatar based gameplay Star Citizen and Elite will be doing with some Kickstarter funds.

    Heck CCP had time to create Dust 514 which is a whole avatar based game, don´t tell me they can´t add generic space stations to walk around in EvE and have FPS elements, see your cargo loading on your ship, walk around your ship etc.

    My guess is atm they invest more money into Dust and WoD, therefore less money is invested into EvE anyway. Talking about "draining resources"...

     

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    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
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  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    Dust and WiS are not directly comparable. Dust is based on an off-the-shelf game engine (UT3). WiS is based on CCP's own in-house Carbon engine, and does (or was supposed to do) lots of things that UT3 doesn't.

    It's not speculation to say that CCP would be over-reaching to develop WiS properly at this time, because that's exactly what happened in 2011, when they had to lay off 20% of their staff. They're already fully committed to Dust, and long term they're committed to WoD; they don't have the resources to develop what would effectively be a 3rd new game - which is what WiS done properly would be.

    CCP might come back to WiS, but if they do, it won't be until after Dust is launched and running, and the WoD project is back up to full speed.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • GarkanGarkan BirminghamPosts: 552Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    CCP has a solid, steady income from a huge player base, I don´t see ANY reason why they couldn´t do the avatar based gameplay Star Citizen and Elite will be doing with some Kickstarter funds.

    Heck CCP had time to create Dust 514 which is a whole avatar based game, don´t tell me they can´t add generic space stations to walk around in EvE and have FPS elements, see your cargo loading on your ship, walk around your ship etc.

    My guess is atm they invest more money into Dust and WoD, therefore less money is invested into EvE anyway. Talking about "draining resources"...

     

     

    CCP pretty much proved that they couldn't do this, they neglected the core game for nearly two years and abandoned a whole series of previous expansions one after the other to work in Incarna. 
     
    All they had to show for it, all they managed to create was one single dreary room with a bugged and badly optimized engine that could not support more than one player at a time. Oh and they made some trousers and monocles too. It only succeeded in losing people their jobs and disenfranchising a significant portion of the player base.

    Currently playing:

    EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

    Gravity Rush,
    Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

    (Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
    Company of Heroes II.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by tom_gore

     

    Yes, it's an unfair comparison

     


     

    It isn't unfair, it is the only way to judge development effort - whether design goals were met and how proposed ideas were implemented.

     


    All you can do is discuss proposed ideas, which isn't much but only thing you have.

    I think I was doing just that. Comparing the design of SC and Elite to EVE. In design viewpoint, both of them appear to offer more and better than EVE, minus the null sov stuff. Now I do realize at launch both games will certainly have less content than EVE has, but if their core is solid and FUN (and let's be honest, playing EVE isn't very FUN in many places, even if it is strangely addictive) and they show competency to deliver a working product, pieces can be added post-launch to develop into a game EVE can only dream of being.

    Don't get me wrong, EVE is a brilliant game and it is the best current sandbox MMO, period. Unfortunately the foundation of EVE is old and it's starting to show. Also CCP seems to lack balls to add anything new to their game after the Incarna debacle. If at best they will keep fixing their game instead of actually building more stuff into it, the new contenders will eventually catch up and roll past it.

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by tom_gore

    I think I was doing just that.

    No, you are not.

    You are comparing concepts to actual, real game that got those concept already implemented. You do not know what SC or ED are offering until those games are released.


  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Garkan
    Originally posted by FromHell

    CCP has a solid, steady income from a huge player base, I don´t see ANY reason why they couldn´t do the avatar based gameplay Star Citizen and Elite will be doing with some Kickstarter funds.

    Heck CCP had time to create Dust 514 which is a whole avatar based game, don´t tell me they can´t add generic space stations to walk around in EvE and have FPS elements, see your cargo loading on your ship, walk around your ship etc.

    My guess is atm they invest more money into Dust and WoD, therefore less money is invested into EvE anyway. Talking about "draining resources"...

     

     

    CCP pretty much proved that they couldn't do this, they neglected the core game for nearly two years and abandoned a whole series of previous expansions one after the other to work in Incarna. 
     
    All they had to show for it, all they managed to create was one single dreary room with a bugged and badly optimized engine that could not support more than one player at a time. Oh and they made some trousers and monocles too. It only succeeded in losing people their jobs and disenfranchising a significant portion of the player base.

    I think you mean "disenchanting". None of the player base were "disenfranchised" by Incarna.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by tom_gore

     

    Yes, it's an unfair comparison

     


     

    It isn't unfair, it is the only way to judge development effort - whether design goals were met and how proposed ideas were implemented.

     


    All you can do is discuss proposed ideas, which isn't much but only thing you have.

    I think I was doing just that. Comparing the design of SC and Elite to EVE. In design viewpoint, both of them appear to offer more and better than EVE, minus the null sov stuff. Now I do realize at launch both games will certainly have less content than EVE has, but if their core is solid and FUN (and let's be honest, playing EVE isn't very FUN in many places, even if it is strangely addictive) and they show competency to deliver a working product, pieces can be added post-launch to develop into a game EVE can only dream of being.

    Don't get me wrong, EVE is a brilliant game and it is the best current sandbox MMO, period. Unfortunately the foundation of EVE is old and it's starting to show. Also CCP seems to lack balls to add anything new to their game after the Incarna debacle. If at best they will keep fixing their game instead of actually building more stuff into it, the new contenders will eventually catch up and roll past it.

     

     

    CCP Unifex (Lead producer for EVE) has stated that it's time to start adding new content to EVE again. Both in interviews and to the CSM. But he's been pretty clear that it will be new spaceships content.

     

    EDIT: I'm very happy with the 3 expansion cycles that CCP have devoted to fixing stuff. As a piece of software, EVE is in a massively better state than it was 18 months ago. CCP have done an incredible amount of ~iteration~ and polish work and it really shows. But I agree that it's time to start adding new content (which means new things to do, not just new things to kill like in most MMOs) again. The bounty hunting rework in Retribution was welcome to me because it combined both - bounty hunting was so broken that it might as well not have been in the game. Now bounties are incredibly popular. So effectively we have a new thing to do.

    I guess we'll see what the next cycle brings in 4-5 months...

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malcanis 

     

    CCP Unifex (Lead producer for EVE) has stated that it's time to start adding new content to EVE again. Both in interviews and to the CSM. But he's been pretty clear that it will be new spaceships content.

     

    EDIT: I'm very happy with the 3 expansion cycles that CCP have devoted to fixing stuff. As a piece of software, EVE is in a massively better state than it was 18 months ago. CCP have done an incredible amount of ~iteration~ and polish work and it really shows. But I agree that it's time to start adding new content (which means new things to do, not just new things to kill like in most MMOs) again. The bounty hunting rework in Retribution was welcome to me because it combined both - bounty hunting was so broken that it might as well not have been in the game. Now bounties are incredibly popular. So effectively we have a new thing to do.

    I guess we'll see what the next cycle brings in 4-5 months...

    I'm glad. It's exactly what EVE needs. Let's see what they can come up with. Personally I'm hoping stuff exactly like the bounty system - meaning tools that the players can use to keep themselves entertained. NOT stuff like Incursion, which is basically themepark raiding done EVE style.

    Even if I'm not a nullsec dweller, I think those guys could use a ton of new toys to play with. Hopefully some of them would enjoy that enough to stop gate camping 24/7 just out of pure boredom.

     

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Good old ELITE is the mother of space sim nerdgasm. Can´t wait for this new game to happen, it will be epic. Braben always was a visionary, similiar to Chris Roberts.

    What a shame how the industry has treated and ignored people like them.

    who doesn't remember having the cargo full of riches, flying through space, going for a jump and then

     

    *BAM*

     

    blackhole! thargoids everywhere!

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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