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How long do you think the subscription model will last?

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  • ApocalypseSunriseApocalypseSunrise Paducah, KYPosts: 80Member

    All this talk makes me realize just how old I've gotten in the last sixteen years. 'City of Heroes' was the only MMO I've ever paid to play. Before I ever played an MMO that wasn't free a friend of mine, who'd been playing p2p MMOs for several years, explained it to me like this.

    In the days of old I was paying about $6 or $7 for a weekly game rental about twice a month. A simple money and time tally showed that I was spending almost as much as a $15 monthly subscription for two and a half weeks less game time. If I found a great game to play it made more than enough sense to go ahead and pay the extra few bucks for a full month's access and I could cancel the reoccuring subscription anytime I liked.

    I realize not everyone has that kind of money to shell out month after month, especially if they are only casual gamers. Obviously, all of the current models have merit in one way or another. I think having several options is good business. For example: Say you've been playing a game for a while and you decide to take a break so you cancel your sub. A night comes where you just have to play but you don't think you'll be playing for a whole month and you don't want to pay the full monthly subscription cost. I think a pay-to-access option, lets say for two weeks of playtime with full in-game character access for about $6 or $7, would be a nice thing to have.
    --Free-to-play games have their pros and cons. During the time when I was absent from CoH it went f2p. I assumed it was the beginning of the end, and in actuality my opinion wasn't as far-off as I originally thought. When I came back I tried the f2p model and I found out how badly my old characters were restricted in what they could do so I resubscribed. Opinions will differ, but I actually believe this is a good thing. Over my next, and final, year of play I watched all the freebies play for nothing and either buy very little or nothing at all from the cash shop, allthewhile myself and many other veteran players were continuing to pay their subscriptions on at least one account and STILL use the cash shop because they were offering stuff we wanted.
    ~~Granted, the game was old and past its life-expectancy so a free-to-play model didn't really hurt it. Unfortunately, it didn't really help it either. My theory is that "new" f2p accounts didn't have the propper restrictions on them. My opinion is that non-vet f2p accounts should have been barred from running any content over level 15. The idea of a free or trial account is to give players a chance to experience your game with hope that they like it enough to pay for more. If you give them too much access you are esentially giving them a free game and they develop the mindset "If I can play for free why should I bother paying for anything more?"

    I may be pissed at NCsoft for shutting down 'City of Heroes', but while it was running I enjoyed myself and I was happy to pay for the ability to do so and that is what matters in the end for every game no matter what the payment model. If the game is really worth playing then people will pay for it in some form or another. My advice is for publishers to fully consider their options for subscription payment and game generated income before making any huge changes. Take a few surveys, do a little research and find out what your players want and what they're willing to spend to get it. Putting in a little time and effort early can prevent costly mistakes, and game closures, later.

    Yes, I've read a poem. Try not to faint.

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    As long as the suckers are willing to pay...

    If I got to the point that $15 a month is no longer disposable income, I must have really been a sucker in the business aspect of my life. 

    I'll be a $15 a month sucker for a quality product any day.  That's less than 2 beers at the pub with tip.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    The sub model already is death for me.

    And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member

    As much as I love WoW (I still value it above any other MMO, I'm sorry but nothing really comes close), I can't imagine ever paying a sub for another game again, not even Titan.

    There's just too many good games to play (even if you ignore MMOs completely - never mind that, ESPECIALLY if you ignore this mostly horrible genre) and life is too short to devote it to a sub-based game.

    When I get sick of WoW (might be any day now - or never who the f- knows), that's it for me & subs.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    The sub model already is death for me.

    "Death" for you? Geez that sounds pretty dramatic, buddy. Personally, I cannot seem to get that worked up over video games let alone payment plans.

    Anywho, even with all of the craziness in the industry right now, I don't see the sub model going anywhere anytime soon. WOW and EVE are living proof of that. There is no shortage of gamers that are willing to pay a sub for a good MMO, however there is a serious shortage of good MMOs that are worth paying for.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kitarad
    What about Titan Blizzard's next MMO ? It might have a sub.

    I hope it does, and I hope it's a good mmorpg.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    The sub model already is death for me.

    And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

    Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

    Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

  • bamdorfbamdorf Chatham, NJPosts: 150Member

    I assume the OP means "subscription ONLY".  

    Isn't it logical for games to offer multiple payment models so players can choose what they want?   I think what we have been seeing lately is a struggle to find the right alternatives --- how to balance the payment methods offered so that there is not an overpowering difference.   For example if the cash shop makes the game p2w, then the subs will tend to disappear, and so forth.   For players who can log on nearly every day the sub method is very cheap, whether it is $10, $15, whatever.   But some can't do that.  So the vendor who offers  alternatives  has a chance to increase revenue...if they don't screw up the game in the process.

     

     

    ---------------------------
    Rose-lipped maidens,
    Light-foot lads...

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    The sub model already is death for me.

    And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

    Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

    Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

    Ok great. But how do you expect these companies to make any money? your answer might be "others".

    And to my thinking that's the whole crux of the problem right there because more people than not are going to rely upon "others" to pay for their game habits.

    It's a ridiculous business model.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    The sub model already is death for me.

    And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

    Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

    Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

    Ok great. But how do you expect these companies to make any money? your answer might be "others".

    And to my thinking that's the whole crux of the problem right there because more people than not are going to rely upon "others" to pay for their game habits.

    It's a ridiculous business model.

    Yes. And those others are called "whales" in the industry. As long as they exist, i got to play for free.

    And why would that be a "problem" if there are enough whales to sustain the games? Obviously there are enough since there are so many F2P games, and all seems to be doing fine and adding content.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    As far as I know only SWTOR, TSW and DCUO abandoned their sub model "within months."  This is a bit of hyperbole.

    Fixed!

    I think the subscription model will last for exactly as long as Blizzard chooses to continue to use the subscription model for WoW.

             I think WoW is definitely the key to the p2p model.......Titan will be able to do a p2p model also simply because Blizzard has such a huge playerbase and can get away with it......SOE for years stuck to this model hardcore and watched their playerbase dwindle year by year......Judging by PS@ and the future EQ Next it sounds like Smed is going away from it altogether.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    The sub model already is death for me.

    And out of curiostiy, how much do you spend per month in the current game of your choice?

    Zero. Currently i am playing (MMOs, not listing the non-MMO) PS2, some STO, and i may go back to DCUO. I am going to play Marvel Heroes when it comes out. Oh, and may be a little DDO if i feel like AD&D.

    Oh, and i haven't paid a single cent to these games either.

    Ok great. But how do you expect these companies to make any money? your answer might be "others".

    And to my thinking that's the whole crux of the problem right there because more people than not are going to rely upon "others" to pay for their game habits.

    It's a ridiculous business model.

    Yes. And those others are called "whales" in the industry. As long as they exist, i got to play for free.

    And why would that be a "problem" if there are enough whales to sustain the games? Obviously there are enough since there are so many F2P games, and all seems to be doing fine and adding content.

    Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

    My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

     

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

    My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

     

    Oh I think you're absolutely correct.

    These "whales" are not going to be enough to keep these games alive in the long run. As they move on, they're going to leave one hell of a mess of dead titles in their wakes.

    The next few years are going to be quite interesting to observe as things level out and evolve.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

    My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

     

    Oh I think you're absolutely correct.

    These "whales" are not going to be enough to keep these games alive in the long run. As they move on, they're going to leave one hell of a mess of dead titles in their wakes.

    The next few years are going to be quite interesting to observe as things level out and evolve.

    Whales and over-fishing... we've been here before?!

    F2P just makes me think the company has no incentive to keep any one player enjoying the game, it's all about churning through the players before they leave??

     

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon

    Part of the reason people don't find sub-based MMOs worth it in many cases is simply because the game isn't good enough to them to warrant paying one.

    Part of the problem, however, also lies in the way MMOs are developed these days. Once upon a time, they were developed in a way that players could be kept occupied and entertained over a long period of time. Months, or even years could be put into a MMO with players still not having seen or done everything the game offered.

    Content had to be worked at. Levels weren't "earned" at break-neck speeds, and no one - or at least very few people believed "level cap is where the real game starts", or that "end game is all that matters".

    The problem is you have two conflicting things at work here.

    On one hand, you have people who demand content to come quickly, levels to pass by swiftly and for end-game to be achievable within a very short amount of time - as little as a couple weeks, even days in some cases.

    In getting to level cap/end game as fast as possible, people tend to pass up a majority of the content available to them, because  per their "end game is all that matters" mindset, everything prior to "the end" is just "useless filler".

    This leaves them with the "end-game content", which accounts for maybe 10-20% of the entire game, but is the only part many consider "most important" or "meaningful".

    Because people demand gear, xp and progression to come quickly, they burn through that 10-20% of content that constitutes the end-game, and before long, find themselves sitting around wondering why there isn't more to do, waiting on "those lame developers" to get them new content, so they can burn through that and end up right back in the same situation.

    What you end up with is a lot of people getting to end-game, and completing all the content the game offers within a month, maybe a little more... and finding there's nothing more to do (ignoring or dismissing the 80-90% of content they ignored on the way up).

    Then they complain about subscriptions not being worth it.

    The problem is a cyclical one. One problem feeds back into the other, continuously.

    As long as gamers demand everything come "fast fast fast, now now now", insist on basing their entire experience on the small part that comes at "the end", and refuse to slow down and partake in more of what the game offers... no MMO will ever be worth a sub to those people, because they will have done everything they're interested in before the first month is even up.

     

    It has to be a two part solution...

    1. Developers have got to stop catering to the "I want end-game NOW!" crowd. They have to stop being afraid to require people to earn that progress, instead of handing it out on a silver platter.

    2. Players have to change the way they approach these games, as well as what they expect from them. They have to stop putting all their focus on "getting to end-game" at the expense of all else, and start to regard Level Cap as something they'll get to "eventually". They have to start participating in MMORPGs as a long-term hobby, not a short term "race to the finish line".

    There's a reason why no MMO can keep many players entertained for long, why they hop from one new game to the next, from one month to the next. It's because so many MMOs now are designed to rush the player through "to the end", and it's because the players insist on playing them that way.

    Conversely, there's a reason many older MMOs keep people playing as long as they do, and sustain subscriptions even over a decade into their service in some cases... It's because they're designed as long-term hobbies, not as short-term races to the end.

    In my opinion, we can get back to a point where MMOs are considered worth a nominal monthly fee to more people. However, it's going to require parties on both sides of the fence to make some changes in the how these games are designed, and in how they're played. As long as both remain the same, nothing will change.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

    My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

     

    Oh I think you're absolutely correct.

    These "whales" are not going to be enough to keep these games alive in the long run. As they move on, they're going to leave one hell of a mess of dead titles in their wakes.

    The next few years are going to be quite interesting to observe as things level out and evolve.

    I even think that at some point, someone in some company is going to look at all the "others" in these games and realize that more people are there completley for free game time. They are then going to see money left on the table and might even enact some sort of additional fee(s). Small perhaps but this is just the start of it.

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    As far as I know only SWTOR, TOR and DCUO abandoned their sub model "within months."  This is a bit of hyperbole.

    And did so by being launched as incredibly linear, instance filled shit fests. If you sell a poor product for more than customers feel it is worth, they simply will not continue to pay. This has no bearing on the quality of the pricing plan but of the property being sold.

     

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Well that's not exactly true is it? Aion, with it's "totally free" f2p model wasn't able to make the money that the company wanted. I think companies are going to realize that this model isn't going to generate a sustained income and will start throwing in anything and evertyhing to make a buck. At what point will the Pay to win items make an entrance? Real pay to win items that is.

    My thought is that there is going to come a time when companies are going to require more money than "whales" can deliver.

     

    Oh I think you're absolutely correct.

    These "whales" are not going to be enough to keep these games alive in the long run. As they move on, they're going to leave one hell of a mess of dead titles in their wakes.

    The next few years are going to be quite interesting to observe as things level out and evolve.

    I even think that at some point, someone in some company is going to look at all the "others" in these games and realize that more people are there completley for free game time. They are then going to see money left on the table and might even enact some sort of additional fee(s). Small perhaps but this is just the start of it.

    Lineage 2 has already passed that point. Their cash shop now is such a blatant cash grab, it's ridiculous. It's like NCSoft isn't even trying to hide it anymore.

    Turbine has actively been experimenting in that regard, too, with things like the $50 "hobby horse" they listed on the test server... to "test the waters", as they put it. They're clearly looking to see how much people are wlling to pay, so they can start increasing the cost of cash shop items accordingly. To their credit, most players lashed back at Turbine for even considering it.

  • RedJorgeRedJorge LisbonPosts: 106Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Renton81

     

     

    I personally think MMO's should work the way Guild Wars 2 did. One time payment and that gives you access to the game.

    you forgot to add "with cash shop"

    And with extra payment to buy the access to extra expansions.

    Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
    Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
    [laughs]
    Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
    [walks away]
    Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
    Sheldon: What?
    Penny: This plasma grenade.
    [explosion]
    Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
    Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
     

    Lineage 2 has already passed that point. Their cash shop now is such a blatant cash grab, it's ridiculous. It's like NCSoft isn't even trying to hide it anymore.

    Turbine has actively been experimenting in that regard, too, with things like the $50 "hobby horse" they listed on the test server... to "test the waters", as they put it. They're clearly looking to see how much people are wlling to pay, so they can start increasing the cost of cash shop items accordingly. To their credit, most players lashed back at Turbine for even considering it.

    so sad.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
     

    Lineage 2 has already passed that point. Their cash shop now is such a blatant cash grab, it's ridiculous. It's like NCSoft isn't even trying to hide it anymore.

    Turbine has actively been experimenting in that regard, too, with things like the $50 "hobby horse" they listed on the test server... to "test the waters", as they put it. They're clearly looking to see how much people are wlling to pay, so they can start increasing the cost of cash shop items accordingly. To their credit, most players lashed back at Turbine for even considering it.

    so sad.

    Sad indeed.

    Sadder still is that it's not even surprising, at least to me. Plenty of people foresaw that kind of thing happening back when Cash Shops first hit the Western market in a notable way.

    To believe a company would embrace a revenue model that gives them ceiling-unlimited access to people's wallets, and not attempt to increase that revenue stream over time is, in my opinion, naive.

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TangentPoint
    SNIP

     

    It has to be a two part solution...

    1. Developers have got to stop catering to the "I want end-game NOW!" crowd. They have to stop being afraid to require people to earn that progress, instead of handing it out on a silver platter.

    2. Players have to change the way they approach these games, as well as what they expect from them. They have to stop putting all their focus on "getting to end-game" at the expense of all else, and start to regard Level Cap as something they'll get to "eventually". They have to start participating in MMORPGs as a long-term hobby, not a short term "race to the finish line".

    There's a reason why no MMO can keep many players entertained for long, why they hop from one new game to the next, from one month to the next. It's because so many MMOs now are designed to rush the player through "to the end", and it's because the players insist on playing them that way.

    Conversely, there's a reason many older MMOs keep people playing as long as they do, and sustain subscriptions even over a decade into their service in some cases... It's because they're designed as long-term hobbies, not as short-term races to the end.

    In my opinion, we can get back to a point where MMOs are considered worth a nominal monthly fee to more people. However, it's going to require parties on both sides of the fence to make some changes in the how these games are designed, and in how they're played. As long as both remain the same, nothing will change.

     

    Had to cut the quote down, but I agree with everything you said, especially the solutions part. If MMOs want to remain long-term gaming options, then they need to create long term gaming goals. WoW has been on top because what it does it does well, and has a rabid fanbase. UO fans are rabid about the game, same with EQ1, Asheron's Call, etc.

    One of the things that Asheron's Call 1 (and 2 eventually) did well was effectively create a near endless character development system. Level cap in AC is like 276, which has taken some people years to obtain (although it's easier now). You weren't just challenged at top level, but there was challenging and fun content the entire way, with plateaus of power as well. "Endgame" in a mmo is a fairly ridiculous concept. Developers need to be more intelligent with their design decisions in order to make the game fun at all levels.

    One of the things GW2 did well was that you could have an instant 80 with all skills unlocked for SPvP, and in their version of "world" pvp, you were max leveled, but were still lacking in overall power. You didn't need to slog through PvE to enjoy top tier pvp. Their pve system had a great concept, but lacked in execution.

    I feel that the character development stage of any mmo should be the star of the whole show.

    Of course, this is about the viablity of the sub model. Sub games will continue to go B2P or F2P as long as the level of content they deliver is subpar. Any TRUE mmo worth it's salt will have a loyal playerbase who will be willing to pay. This era of multiplayer online games being passed off as MMOs needs to come to and end, or be advertised for what they are.

  • RedJorgeRedJorge LisbonPosts: 106Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    Part of the reason people don't find sub-based MMOs worth it in many cases is simply because the game isn't good enough to them to warrant paying one.

    Part of the problem, however, also lies in the way MMOs are developed these days. Once upon a time, they were developed in a way that players could be kept occupied and entertained over a long period of time. Months, or even years could be put into a MMO with players still not having seen or done everything the game offered.

    Content had to be worked at. Levels weren't "earned" at break-neck speeds, and no one - or at least very few people believed "level cap is where the real game starts", or that "end game is all that matters".

    The problem is you have two conflicting things at work here.

    On one hand, you have people who demand content to come quickly, levels to pass by swiftly and for end-game to be achievable within a very short amount of time - as little as a couple weeks, even days in some cases.

    In getting to level cap/end game as fast as possible, people tend to pass up a majority of the content available to them, because  per their "end game is all that matters" mindset, everything prior to "the end" is just "useless filler".

    This leaves them with the "end-game content", which accounts for maybe 10-20% of the entire game, but is the only part many consider "most important" or "meaningful".

    Because people demand gear, xp and progression to come quickly, they burn through that 10-20% of content that constitutes the end-game, and before long, find themselves sitting around wondering why there isn't more to do, waiting on "those lame developers" to get them new content, so they can burn through that and end up right back in the same situation.

    What you end up with is a lot of people getting to end-game, and completing all the content the game offers within a month, maybe a little more... and finding there's nothing more to do (ignoring or dismissing the 80-90% of content they ignored on the way up).

    Then they complain about subscriptions not being worth it.

    The problem is a cyclical one. One problem feeds back into the other, continuously.

    As long as gamers demand everything come "fast fast fast, now now now", insist on basing their entire experience on the small part that comes at "the end", and refuse to slow down and partake in more of what the game offers... no MMO will ever be worth a sub to those people, because they will have done everything they're interested in before the first month is even up.

     

    It has to be a two part solution...

    1. Developers have got to stop catering to the "I want end-game NOW!" crowd. They have to stop being afraid to require people to earn that progress, instead of handing it out on a silver platter.

    2. Players have to change the way they approach these games, as well as what they expect from them. They have to stop putting all their focus on "getting to end-game" at the expense of all else, and start to regard Level Cap as something they'll get to "eventually". They have to start participating in MMORPGs as a long-term hobby, not a short term "race to the finish line".

    There's a reason why no MMO can keep many players entertained for long, why they hop from one new game to the next, from one month to the next. It's because so many MMOs now are designed to rush the player through "to the end", and it's because the players insist on playing them that way.

    Conversely, there's a reason many older MMOs keep people playing as long as they do, and sustain subscriptions even over a decade into their service in some cases... It's because they're designed as long-term hobbies, not as short-term races to the end.

    In my opinion, we can get back to a point where MMOs are considered worth a nominal monthly fee to more people. However, it's going to require parties on both sides of the fence to make some changes in the how these games are designed, and in how they're played. As long as both remain the same, nothing will change.

     

    Fully agree with you.

    Actually I think the best model will be subscription + cash shop.

    And the content should be designed so everyone must go through all or most  of it while leveling.

     

    Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
    Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
    [laughs]
    Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
    [walks away]
    Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
    Sheldon: What?
    Penny: This plasma grenade.
    [explosion]
    Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
    Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RedJorge
     

    Fully agree with you.

    Actually I think the best model will be subscription + cash shop.

    And the content should be designed so everyone must go through all or most  of it while leveling.

     

    Thanks!

    I will say, though, that I personally don't like the idea of cash shops at all with regard to purchasing in-game items. If you want to sell me an account service, or an actual physical item for my money? By all means. That's fine.

    But to me - and you can call me old-fashioned; I consider it fair - every pixel, polygon and byte of content that's created and included with a game should be content to be acquired by playing the game. Not through buying it.

    That goes for "mere fluff items" as well, because what's "just fluff" to one person could be really fun and desirable content to another. The difference is, while one person can enjoy the game as they like without buying that item, the other  person now has to either spend more money to enjoy the game as they'd like, or do without. To me, that's unfair.

    They're playing the same game, yet one person's enjoyment is coming at a higher cost than someone else's. It should not be that way, in my opinion.

    It also occurs to me - and I've noticed this a lot - that many times the same people who are fine with cash shops, "as long as it's only fluff items", have the complete opposite reaction when something they do want suddenly has a price tag slapped on it. Then they're outraged over it.

    They're more than happy with the idea of someone having to dish out more $$$ to buy from a Cash Shop... as long as it isn't them. It's completely hypocritical and is, to me, another example of why Cash Shops are a horrible idea that should never have been introduced to the genre.

  • DoomsDay01DoomsDay01 Charlotte, NCPosts: 780Member Common
    I think the sub model is still very much alive. The problem is that over the last few years, nothing that has come out has been worth actually subscribing to. At least that is my opinion. I have subbed to a few of the games and even bought some lifetime accounts and then have the games go free to play. In general though, I just haven't seen anything that has come out that really made me want to keep a sub to a game. If the mmo devs don't get out of this rut they are in with piping out cheap/quick clones that have no uniqueness to them, then free to play will be here to stay unfortunately.
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