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XFire - As MMO population estimation tool

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  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Actually estimating sub numbers on X-fire is kinda like estimating who will win an election by asking your friends... And by how much based on it.

    It is useful for measuring large trends in a game, if a certain game drops 75% in a few months that is bad (not counting the first 2 weeks after launch, we MMO players take time of for some games and always play more then).

    Certain games players and certain countries use more Xfire than others. You need more teamspeak in some game than others and the Xfire users are often a rather small part of the actual players so you dont have enough data for sub numbers and should be careful with trends less than 25% or so.

    I would say it have some use but only for large dips and ups in population.

    No, it is not. I dont know anyone on XFire so the selection is not biased based on who is my friend and not.

    Is XFire perfectly representetive? Certainly not. But, based on what I have seen, it is good enough to get a rough estimate. Maybe +/- 10%.

     And that's the crux of it. It's all based on opinions of  Xfires validity. There is no reliable verifying data for your assertions. Maybe it's +/- 10% but then again it could be +/- 50% or +/- 150% . It likely isn't the same over a broad spectrum of games.  Yet time and again we're expected to swallow this as proof of one crackpot theory or another. It's unpalatable to say the least.

    It's nowhere near 10% off, I already posted something that shows that they are counting more people than exist on the planet with this 1/522 number but they didn't address it. It's just glazed over and buried in the pages of arguments. This person has made their mind up. They didn't post to discuss, they posted to be right. Well, they are wrong because the numbers show it. What can you do if they won't listen. When you stop debating they keep posting saying they won as if noone is saying anything valid in retort. Well so be it, they won, in their head lol

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Yamota Originally posted by Loke666 Actually estimating sub numbers on X-fire is kinda like estimating who will win an election by asking your friends... And by how much based on it. It is useful for measuring large trends in a game, if a certain game drops 75% in a few months that is bad (not counting the first 2 weeks after launch, we MMO players take time of for some games and always play more then). Certain games players and certain countries use more Xfire than others. You need more teamspeak in some game than others and the Xfire users are often a rather small part of the actual players so you dont have enough data for sub numbers and should be careful with trends less than 25% or so. I would say it have some use but only for large dips and ups in population.
    No, it is not. I dont know anyone on XFire so the selection is not biased based on who is my friend and not. Is XFire perfectly representetive? Certainly not. But, based on what I have seen, it is good enough to get a rough estimate. Maybe +/- 10%.
     And that's the crux of it. It's all based on opinions of  Xfires validity. There is no reliable verifying data for your assertions. Maybe it's +/- 10% but then again it could be +/- 50% or +/- 150% . It likely isn't the same over a broad spectrum of games.  Yet time and again we're expected to swallow this as proof of one crackpot theory or another. It's unpalatable to say the least.


    I don't know how long I'm going to keep it up, but the post just above yours is an initial attempt at seeing how accurate or consistent XFire is for a known population.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Pretty bad for judging populations, but good for looking at trends. Ie. all new MMOs coming out get played less and less, and this is reflected well by xfire.
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Actually estimating sub numbers on X-fire is kinda like estimating who will win an election by asking your friends... And by how much based on it.

    It is useful for measuring large trends in a game, if a certain game drops 75% in a few months that is bad (not counting the first 2 weeks after launch, we MMO players take time of for some games and always play more then).

    Certain games players and certain countries use more Xfire than others. You need more teamspeak in some game than others and the Xfire users are often a rather small part of the actual players so you dont have enough data for sub numbers and should be careful with trends less than 25% or so.

    I would say it have some use but only for large dips and ups in population.

    No, it is not. I dont know anyone on XFire so the selection is not biased based on who is my friend and not.

    Is XFire perfectly representetive? Certainly not. But, based on what I have seen, it is good enough to get a rough estimate. Maybe +/- 10%.

     And that's the crux of it. It's all based on opinions of  Xfires validity. There is no reliable verifying data for your assertions. Maybe it's +/- 10% but then again it could be +/- 50% or +/- 150% . It likely isn't the same over a broad spectrum of games.  Yet time and again we're expected to swallow this as proof of one crackpot theory or another. It's unpalatable to say the least.

    No, this is all in your heads. Atleast I have not said that we should swallow anything as proof. It seems like there are some people who cannot talk about a subject unless it is 100% verifiable and scientific and those people better stay well away from XFire discussions.

    What XFire is, is the best tool we currently got. Is it good enough? Does it matter if its the only tool we got?

    But I digress, why do you people have the need to come to these threads with people who are trying to use any tools available to get an estimate just to bash them? Don't think XFire is valid, then why post over and over again saying it is not.

    Ok we got it the 10th time or the 100th time. Now move on already!

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    So to try and get this thread back on track. Are there any MMOs beside Eve which has published their sub. data or which can be extrapolated by any other accurate means to calculate the XFire factor?
  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    So to try and get this thread back on track. Are there any MMOs beside Eve which has published their sub. data or which can be extrapolated by any other accurate means to calculate the XFire factor?

    WoW's sub numbers are public and Blizzard loves to update the figures whenever they have a chance to.

    If you have historical data (no idea how far back XFIRE can go), LoTRO, DDO also had historical data before they went F2P a few years back.

    LoL has some numbers which was released recently.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,215Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Actually estimating sub numbers on X-fire is kinda like estimating who will win an election by asking your friends... And by how much based on it.

    It is useful for measuring large trends in a game, if a certain game drops 75% in a few months that is bad (not counting the first 2 weeks after launch, we MMO players take time of for some games and always play more then).

    Certain games players and certain countries use more Xfire than others. You need more teamspeak in some game than others and the Xfire users are often a rather small part of the actual players so you dont have enough data for sub numbers and should be careful with trends less than 25% or so.

    I would say it have some use but only for large dips and ups in population.

    No, it is not. I dont know anyone on XFire so the selection is not biased based on who is my friend and not.

    Is XFire perfectly representetive? Certainly not. But, based on what I have seen, it is good enough to get a rough estimate. Maybe +/- 10%.

     And that's the crux of it. It's all based on opinions of  Xfires validity. There is no reliable verifying data for your assertions. Maybe it's +/- 10% but then again it could be +/- 50% or +/- 150% . It likely isn't the same over a broad spectrum of games.  Yet time and again we're expected to swallow this as proof of one crackpot theory or another. It's unpalatable to say the least.

    No, this is all in your heads. Atleast I have not said that we should swallow anything as proof. It seems like there are some people who cannot talk about a subject unless it is 100% verifiable and scientific and those people better stay well away from XFire discussions.

    What XFire is, is the best tool we currently got. Is it good enough? Does it matter if its the only tool we got?

    But I digress, why do you people have the need to come to these threads with people who are trying to use any tools available to get an estimate just to bash them? Don't think XFire is valid, then why post over and over again saying it is not.

    Ok we got it the 10th time or the 100th time. Now move on already!

     It's 0% verifiable. Less than 0% verifiable actually because it has been shown to be unreliable many times. There is no corellation. If the best tool you have for driving a nail is a rotten bananna would you even try to  use it? Your assertion that it is in any way a tool for estimating game populations is provably false why do you keep insisting it's useful?

    You apparently didn't get it the 10th time or the 100th time or the 1000th time. Move on already!

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,939Member Uncommon

    So how do I read these numbers  WoW link  Players and Hours per Day.

     

    The hours per day part I'm guessing is a cumulative for all sessions, and then averaged over the period?

     

    Players.  Would that be average number of players per day, or total number of players for the period?

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Yamota
    So to try and get this thread back on track. Are there any MMOs beside Eve which has published their sub. data or which can be extrapolated by any other accurate means to calculate the XFire factor?

    WoW's sub numbers are public and Blizzard loves to update the figures whenever they have a chance to.

    If you have historical data (no idea how far back XFIRE can go), LoTRO, DDO also had historical data before they went F2P a few years back.

    LoL has some numbers which was released recently.

    Do you know the WoWs sub number in the West or where I can find them?

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    So how do I read these numbers  WoW link  Players and Hours per Day.

     

    The hours per day part I'm guessing is a cumulative for all sessions, and then averaged over the period?

     

    Players.  Would that be average number of players per day, or total number of players for the period?

     

    Total number of unique players per period (day). 

    And hours is the total nr of hours per period, across all players.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,939Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    So how do I read these numbers  WoW link  Players and Hours per Day.

     

    The hours per day part I'm guessing is a cumulative for all sessions, and then averaged over the period?

     

    Players.  Would that be average number of players per day, or total number of players for the period?

     

    Total number of unique players per period (day). 

    And hours is the total nr of hours per period, across all players.

     

    Okay, I got it.  Shows the last day as current data.  Then the chart is just a historical.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Actually estimating sub numbers on X-fire is kinda like estimating who will win an election by asking your friends... And by how much based on it.

    It is useful for measuring large trends in a game, if a certain game drops 75% in a few months that is bad (not counting the first 2 weeks after launch, we MMO players take time of for some games and always play more then).

    Certain games players and certain countries use more Xfire than others. You need more teamspeak in some game than others and the Xfire users are often a rather small part of the actual players so you dont have enough data for sub numbers and should be careful with trends less than 25% or so.

    I would say it have some use but only for large dips and ups in population.

    No, it is not. I dont know anyone on XFire so the selection is not biased based on who is my friend and not.

    Is XFire perfectly representetive? Certainly not. But, based on what I have seen, it is good enough to get a rough estimate. Maybe +/- 10%.

     And that's the crux of it. It's all based on opinions of  Xfires validity. There is no reliable verifying data for your assertions. Maybe it's +/- 10% but then again it could be +/- 50% or +/- 150% . It likely isn't the same over a broad spectrum of games.  Yet time and again we're expected to swallow this as proof of one crackpot theory or another. It's unpalatable to say the least.

    No, this is all in your heads. Atleast I have not said that we should swallow anything as proof. It seems like there are some people who cannot talk about a subject unless it is 100% verifiable and scientific and those people better stay well away from XFire discussions.

    What XFire is, is the best tool we currently got. Is it good enough? Does it matter if its the only tool we got?

    But I digress, why do you people have the need to come to these threads with people who are trying to use any tools available to get an estimate just to bash them? Don't think XFire is valid, then why post over and over again saying it is not.

    Ok we got it the 10th time or the 100th time. Now move on already!

     It's 0% verifiable. Less than 0% verifiable actually because it has been shown to be unreliable many times. There is no corellation. If the best tool you have for driving a nail is a rotten bananna would you even try to  use it? Your assertion that it is in any way a tool for estimating game populations is provably false why do you keep insisting it's useful?

    You apparently didn't get it the 10th time or the 100th time or the 1000th time. Move on already!

    no, I dont agree with your assessment that it is not useful, I think it is. So I am going to use it, regardless of what you think.

    And the purpose of this thread was to use XFire as a population measurment tool. You dont find it accurate, great. Move on then. I dont need to move on because this thread is based on the assumption that XFire is accurate.

    If you want to debate that then start a thread discussing it and I will happily stay away from it.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    So how do I read these numbers  WoW link  Players and Hours per Day.

     

    The hours per day part I'm guessing is a cumulative for all sessions, and then averaged over the period?

     

    Players.  Would that be average number of players per day, or total number of players for the period?

     

    Total number of unique players per period (day). 

    And hours is the total nr of hours per period, across all players.

     

    Okay, I got it.  Shows the last day as current data.  Then the chart is just a historical.

    Yes but unfourtunately the historical data is only for hours played.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Yamota
    So to try and get this thread back on track. Are there any MMOs beside Eve which has published their sub. data or which can be extrapolated by any other accurate means to calculate the XFire factor?

    WoW's sub numbers are public and Blizzard loves to update the figures whenever they have a chance to.

    If you have historical data (no idea how far back XFIRE can go), LoTRO, DDO also had historical data before they went F2P a few years back.

    LoL has some numbers which was released recently.

    Do you know the WoWs sub number in the West or where I can find them?

    Not right now but there was a way.

    Their 2011  / 2010 financial figures had the total amount of $$$ by online products which did not include COD:Elite since it was after their reporting period. (or something like it).

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3064...&find=blizzard

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1121820-Blizzard-Q1-2012-financial-report-WoW-subs/page3

     

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Yamota

    The purpose of this thread is to discuss XFire numbers and from those try to extrapolate MMO playerbase numbers from. The mods of this site said they would support such a thread and sticky it so here is hoping they will.

    So lets start by qouting what is said on the site: http://www.mmodata.net/ about X-Fire:

    "I just got the Q4 quarterly report from EA, and they report 1,3m subs, so I will add this. My latest estimate of 1,41m subs was pretty generous, however I always try to be conservative in my estimates, whether they are downward or upward. 

    What it does show me is that the Xfire numbers are a good indication to base estimates off, purely based on Xfire I would have estimated 1,2m."

    So with that in mind, let us start with some theory-crafting. This is the method I use to get estimated player base numbers. I take a game with a known playerbase and from those games calculate what I would call the X-Fire factor. As an example I will use Eve estimated playerbase of 360k subs (only counting the subs in the West as I believe X-Fire is not used much in the East).

    Then I divide this sub. number with the X-Fire played per day which for Eve is currently at 690. 

    360k/690 = 522 (rounded)

    So 522 is the X-Fire factor which I will use to calculate the playerbase of other games. It would be better if I had another game to calculate the same for but currently I dont know any known sub. numbers of any other game. But this is just an example.

    So lets use this number to estimate another MMOs playerbase, such as SW:TOR which has a players per day number of 1.471. Multiply this with the X-Fire factor to get an estimated playerbase of SW:TOR:

    1.471*522 = 768k (rounded)

    Same method for GW 2 gives a playerbase of 2 million.

    Reasonable? I think so. Keep in mind that the released sub. numbers for SW:TOR was way back in Q1 2012. And GW 2 has sales of 2 million a month or so after release.

    except we know this is complete crap.

     

    EQ obvioulsy has a LOT more than 8874 people

    EQ2 has a lot more than 17226

    EQ2 is certainly over 100k and EQ1 is likely not thar far from 100k.

    Rift likely has at least 3x the 62,000 your estimation would suggest.

     

    Note that EQ1 has an extremely older player base, EQ2 far older than average. and Rift somewhat older than average.  Your method woould be off on both EQ and EQ2 by a factor of more than 10, and Rift by a factor of probably around 4.

     

    These three games are proof enough that one figure wont estimate all games populations.

     

     

    This thread title is "Xfire - As MMO population estimation tool" so you can expect its inability to perform that function to be a the topic of dicussion.

    If i went on to a heavy metal music forum and started a thread "The Beatles as a Heavy Metal band" how do you think those replies would go?

    Well if you dont believe it is a good population estimation tool then why dont you just move on? I find it funny that so many people seem to have this unsufferable needs to show that XFire is innaccurate.

    Why?

    As for the games you mentioned, I have seen nothing to suggest that those games have the sub. numbers you suggest they do. You got a source for that? If you are referring to MMOData.net, they havent tracked EQ 1 or 2 for over two years.

    And your example with beatles is in no way comparable. Classification of music to population estimation by using a tool which shows how many people of said tool plays a particular game? That is the worst example I have ever read.

    If you dont think EQ2 has over 100k, fine.  If you dont think they have over 50k, you have no business trying to judge MMORPG populations.  If you dont think Rift has well over 60k people, well...see the last sentence.   These games are proof to anyone capable of rational thinking that your little 'xfire factor' is worthless.  Just accept it an move in.

     

    And as for the Beatles analogy, of course it fits.  Beatles are not a heavy metal band.  Xfire is not a MMO population tool.  Sure, you could argue Helter Skelter is a metal song but 99% of the catalog is certainly not heavy metal.  Just like 99% of the time xfire is useless is MMO population estimation.  That one % is the case where we know a sub number to start with and a corresponding # of xfire users.  That is almost never the case, and it only applies to that particular game, not to any other game.

     

    You started a thread that suggested it would discuss xfires merits as a population indicator.  When anyone with half a brain comes in and tells you it isnt (except for rare circumstances), perhaps its time to admit you were wrong and move on.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Yamota So to try and get this thread back on track. Are there any MMOs beside Eve which has published their sub. data or which can be extrapolated by any other accurate means to calculate the XFire factor?
    WoW's sub numbers are public and Blizzard loves to update the figures whenever they have a chance to.

    If you have historical data (no idea how far back XFIRE can go), LoTRO, DDO also had historical data before they went F2P a few years back.

    LoL has some numbers which was released recently.



    XFire has an XML interface that can be used by registered users to pull data beyond what is available on the public website. I know the hours played historical data exists, I'm not sure about the number of concurrent players.

    ** edit **
    For instance, without any sort of authentication, the following list of feeds in XML format is available:
    http://www.xfire.com/xml/

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DaggerjaydoDaggerjaydo Puyallup, WAPosts: 121Member

    Since the entire population of any game in question doesn't use xfire, you'd have to have a decent random sample size to get accurate statistical information from xfire data.

     

    I'm sure xfire can provide a large enough sample size for some games, but the problem is that the sample is not random. (People have to willingly sign up and want to use xfire)

     

    Thus xfire data can only be used anecdotally, and can not be considered accurate.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Yamota So to try and get this thread back on track. Are there any MMOs beside Eve which has published their sub. data or which can be extrapolated by any other accurate means to calculate the XFire factor?
    WoW's sub numbers are public and Blizzard loves to update the figures whenever they have a chance to.

     

    If you have historical data (no idea how far back XFIRE can go), LoTRO, DDO also had historical data before they went F2P a few years back.

    LoL has some numbers which was released recently.



    XFire has an XML interface that can be used by registered users to pull data beyond what is available on the public website. I know the hours played historical data exists, I'm not sure about the number of concurrent players.

    ** edit **
    For instance, without any sort of authentication, the following list of feeds in XML format is available:
    http://www.xfire.com/xml/

     

    Thanks, but unfourtunately if you try to access the more useful data it requires authentication. 

    I asked on their forums for access, let's see what happens.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,762Member Uncommon

       You cant use Xfire as a pop tool simply because not every game offers it along with the download...in fact, I have been playing MMOs almsto 15 years and have only had Xfire come up once in all that time as a download option......So lets say GW2 comes with Xfire optional download...Well that puts GW2 at a huge advantage over say TSW which doesnt offer the optional download....WHile there will be some crossover and some TSW users will ahve Xfire, the chances are much higher that GW2 users will have Xfire and TSW users will not.....It simply skews the numbers.

    I dont have any facts to back this up, but it also seems that Xfire is geared towards younger gamers who play with their friends (as it is used to see what your friends are playing) rather than older gamers who probably are not as inclined to care about what their friends are playing.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    I got answer from the XFire mods about access to their XML interface. Unfourtunately it was a negative:

    "We don't have that kind of API call set up. With that kind of data, I believe it's only something we'd want to share with partners and press releases."

    So I guess the only way to create a historic database is doing it manually...

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,939Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    I got answer from the XFire mods about access to their XML interface. Unfourtunately it was a negative:

    "We don't have that kind of API call set up. With that kind of data, I believe it's only something we'd want to share with partners and press releases."

    So I guess the only way to create a historic database is doing it manually...

     

    Or semi-manually.  An old fashioned spider driven data scrape (grab the HTML, parse out the data, store) done discreetly could be interesting.  I'm guessing it would have to be done discreetly.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,581Moderator Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
     

    no, I dont agree with your assessment that it is not useful, I think it is. So I am going to use it, regardless of what you think.

    And the purpose of this thread was to use XFire as a population measurment tool. You dont find it accurate, great. Move on then. I dont need to move on because this thread is based on the assumption that XFire is accurate.

    If you want to debate that then start a thread discussing it and I will happily stay away from it.

    This is the thread for discussion of XFire. It is relatively civil so far, but telling posters to go create their own or to go post elsewhere isn't in that spirit. What we don't want are 500 XFire argument threads. You wanted one, and it's here.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon

    "At least its good for trendtracking [still unproven]"

    "Official data [never cited] of many games indeed correlates with xfire!"

    (Edit-: new one below scaled, same data, space scaled to closest rounded min/max.)

    ...but it so often fails so glaryingly obvious in confrontation of reality, whenever there actually is any evidence presented, not just implied to exist.. also nice inconsistent "xfire factor(s)" we got there.... inb4 half a year is "too short", while they make statements about targeted games long term trends 2 weeks after they launched.


    "Its the best data we have [not that they have objective goals]", yet so so little effort to even understand how it works or simplest comprehenaiob of the data they cite,  so little effort find indipendent data to validate it (of rather lack of success to find any), but so much effort to withold and cover up the evidently proven and known flaws and inaccuracies in their methods and interpretations, so much effort to run away from them into new threads or now brushing them off as "off-topic", so much effort to twist and take them out of their context as it suits them, so much effort few even blatantly make up lies, so quickly jumping to abuse it, even to deny the rare official mostly still anecdotal data, when it does not fit their personal agenda, the same they keep claimg "always confirmed" their ignorant, uneducated and closeminded xfire speculation.

    Now EvEs public stats was by most known as the best and probably the only "official trend" available and it only confirms their continued deliberate ignorance and denial, meant to defend "the best" excuse they found (as being biased in favour of their personal agenda) to excuse trashtalk or create basis for trashtalk about other games trough deliberate spread missinformation and halftruths.

    I wonder where all that other "official data" that "always correlated with xfire" stays, considering there is next to no game besides EvE actually revealing its playeractivity and they didnt even bother about the irregularities of the most prominent one. Obviously you see why. You'd expect the burden of proof for credibility remains with those claiming it as proof for whatever they claim based of it. But they tend to be the least ones the contribute anything to the credence but more empty claims.

    This closes in to the level of flat-young-earth believers protecting their "scientific" lies.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Amana
    Originally posted by Yamota
     

    no, I dont agree with your assessment that it is not useful, I think it is. So I am going to use it, regardless of what you think.

    And the purpose of this thread was to use XFire as a population measurment tool. You dont find it accurate, great. Move on then. I dont need to move on because this thread is based on the assumption that XFire is accurate.

    If you want to debate that then start a thread discussing it and I will happily stay away from it.

    This is the thread for discussion of XFire. It is relatively civil so far, but telling posters to go create their own or to go post elsewhere isn't in that spirit. What we don't want are 500 XFire argument threads. You wanted one, and it's here.

    Well the reason I created the thread was not to create an endless discussion about its validity but rather to try and use the data to get some userbase data. How can you do that if it keep getting flooded by anti XFire people saying it is invalid a million times?

    It is pointless and non-constructive. Like the post above me. Showing graphs and what not to try and prove that XFire is invalid where as no-one has said that XFire is proof of anything. They dont like XFire, for whatever reasons, and are trying to hijack threads trying to decipher something from the biggest player activity tool we got and saying over and over again that it is invalid.

    What is the point of that? How is that constructive?

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Amana
    Originally posted by Yamota
     

    no, I dont agree with your assessment that it is not useful, I think it is. So I am going to use it, regardless of what you think.

    And the purpose of this thread was to use XFire as a population measurment tool. You dont find it accurate, great. Move on then. I dont need to move on because this thread is based on the assumption that XFire is accurate.

    If you want to debate that then start a thread discussing it and I will happily stay away from it.

    This is the thread for discussion of XFire. It is relatively civil so far, but telling posters to go create their own or to go post elsewhere isn't in that spirit. What we don't want are 500 XFire argument threads. You wanted one, and it's here.

    Well the reason I created the thread was not to create an endless discussion about its validity but rather to try and use the data to get some userbase data. How can you do that if it keep getting flooded by anti XFire people saying it is invalid a million times?

    It is pointless and non-constructive.

    Your question was to use xfire as a pop. Estimation tool, and I believe we have obtained more than enough info to answer the question: NO. I am no expert, but it seems site trustworthiness, type of population, and the fact no one likes it used against there game.

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