Originally posted by bubaluba EVE should be like this game? You ever tried to play eve? It looks to me more like Space SimCity. I'm not crazy to give my money to some unknown men for his words and few pictures in background
You must be young, right?
Yes he must be.
To like space sim and not know David Braben and Elite is a travesty. The WHOLE genre owes him respect (since he basically created the genre in pc gaming. It didn't exist before Elite).
I played the hell out of Elite on my C-64 back in the day. It was a fantastic game. Heck, it's one of the reasons that I picked up EVE originally. I really look forward to this iteration of the series and what Braben does with it.
That being said, I try to keep the following in mind:
1. E:D doesn't exist, and will not exist for at least a couple years. During its development, the dev team will run into issues and have to make compromises. I try to temper my claims (not my enthusiasm) about how it has features that EVE should have, or does something better. Right now, it does nothing that EVE does, nor does it do anything better.
2. E:D is not an MMORPG like EVE. It will be single player and have a multiplayer component. It's way more MMO than MMORPG.
3. EVE has been out for 10 years, has an incredibly rich history, has a large and mature universe that is affected by the players (sovereignty, for example), has a dizzying about of career possiblities, and has a complex character progression scheme. That's just to name a few of its features. If E:D or SC have even half the gameplay that EVE has now (and will have 2 years for now), I hope that both games succeed, along with EVE. It will be great for PC games to have multiple choices for those seeking a break from fanatasy-themed games.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
A Tale In The Desert is adding space dogfighting within a procedurally generated galaxy because some other game said it was a good thing.
Granted the desert dwellers are still mastering how to turn clay into pottery, but we're sure they'll get the hang of piloting spacecraft in no time once they craft their fighters out of papyrus and mud.
EVE shouldnt have been anything other than what it is now, no member of the current community who isnt a troll, would play it any other way, CCP is a true developer who looks into the player's best interest aswell as asking the players for feedback and taking said feedback seriously.
EVE any other way wouldn't be EVE therefore EVE shouldn't have been Star Citizen.
It was inevitable that the "EVE should be this" or "EVE will die" chants would start, still that doesn't matter. With both David Braben and Chris Roberts returning to the genre they pretty much defined exciting days are ahead.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
In my oppinion main thing missing from EVE to make it true sandbox miracle great for PVP and PVE players alike.
lol , let the game release first and let people try it out and see how it goes from there. We've seen ALOT of devs doing stuff that should of been in many MMO's , and guess what? They ended up being major failures. I really don't care for Dev diaries and crap , release the game once it's polished and all , and I'll try it out for myself and do my own review on what I like and don't like , thank you very much.
Originally posted by Garkan It was inevitable that the "EVE should be this" or "EVE will die" chants would start, still that doesn't matter. With both David Braben and Chris Roberts returning to the genre they pretty much defined exciting days are ahead.
Anyone can put up a web page with a bunch of killer game concepts. Lets see what actual code is in the open beta client before we start getting excited.
Originally posted by Garkan It was inevitable that the "EVE should be this" or "EVE will die" chants would start, still that doesn't matter. With both David Braben and Chris Roberts returning to the genre they pretty much defined exciting days are ahead.
Anyone can put up a web page with a bunch of killer game concepts. Lets see what actual code is in the open beta client before we start getting excited.
The code matters of course but David Braben and Chris Roberts designed great games, that bodes well for whatever they release. Saying that coding isn't hard would be stupid but coding isn't that difficult if you get a competent team together, game design is the real challenge these games will face. In case I wasn't clear enough in my post I do not agree with all this "EVE will die because of those games". EVE is EVE and is a success because of its uniqueness.
I just think its exciting for those pair to be making space games again, the genre has suffered over the recent decade or so. Only a few indie and small dev titles have been worth playing, classic space devs like Digital Anvil died. Unless Elite 2 and Star Citizen are disasters its actually going to good for EVE, bringing a whole new generation to space games will be good news for CCP. Many players might start off with those games and want to try EVE.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Originally posted by Garkan It was inevitable that the "EVE should be this" or "EVE will die" chants would start, still that doesn't matter. With both David Braben and Chris Roberts returning to the genre they pretty much defined exciting days are ahead.
Anyone can put up a web page with a bunch of killer game concepts. Lets see what actual code is in the open beta client before we start getting excited.
The code matters of course but David Braben and Chris Roberts designed great games, that bodes well for whatever they release. Saying that coding isn't hard would be stupid but coding isn't that difficult if you get a competent team together, game design is the real challenge these games will face. In case I wasn't clear enough in my post I do not agree with all this "EVE will die because of those games". EVE is EVE and is a success because of its uniqueness.
I just think its exciting for those pair to be making space games again, the genre has suffered over the recent decade or so. Only a few indie and small dev titles have been worth playing, classic space devs like Digital Anvil died. Unless Elite 2 and Star Citizen are disasters its actually going to good for EVE, bringing a whole new generation to space games will be good news for CCP. Many players might start off with those games and want to try EVE.
Exactly how I see things. Think it will attract more interest. There's also always the indie batch of space games eg 0x10^c and one or two others.
Originally posted by Garkan The code matters of course but David Braben and Chris Roberts designed great games, that bodes well for whatever they release.
False appeal to authority.
Project matters, not the one who is pulling it off.
If I still had to base on authority, I would say it is those "old-school" devs that have the best chance to fail because how detached they are with current MMO market and it's customer base. Same as "hardcore" fans on these boards and games that are stuck in the past, unable to adapt and accept changes.
Originally posted by Garkan Only a few indie and small dev titles have been worth playing, classic space devs like Digital Anvil died.
Without a decent budget(30-80M), small team can only deliver sub-par product. MMOs are too expensive to make. Simple math.
Project matters, not the one who is pulling it off.
If I still had to base on authority, I would say it is those "old-school" devs that have the best chance to fail because how detached they are with current MMO market and it's customer base. Same as "hardcore" fans on these boards and games that are stuck in the past, unable to adapt and accept changes.
Rubbish, imagine yourself working in a HR department. You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?
Saying past experiance doesnt matter is absurd, no other word for it. Both of those designers defined the space genre in the 90s, with the current tech and resources available they should be able to come up with something amazing.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Originally posted by tom_gore I'm pretty certain EVE was created with far less budget than 30M USD.
Also a decade ago and exception.
See, the one that are stuck in the past I talked about
Originally posted by tom_gore You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?
None. CV means next to nothing for management position. It is the mind that matters, not the experience.
time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...
Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase
Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.
Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.
People that allready like and play EVE dont think nothing should be added.
Granted , that is fine.
But what about many others that tried and found EVE missing the other part - AI computer controlled part ?
Granted EVE should not be like ELITE (Although for your information EVE was based on ELITE)
When infact EVE could be much more - It could have what EVE has and than also what ELITE has.
Yes , you could have that burger and fries too ... and milkshake.
But you guys are like : Let burger be burger , and let other resturant serve milkshakes.
I see it simple as this : Game better -> more players playing = everyone profits
No one said nothing should be added to EVE. You said EVE should have been like this particular game and they said, "No, EVE should be like EVE." Did you misunderstand or did you actually think this crowd would fall for that old trick?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...
Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase
Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.
Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.
8 days to go, I'd say it will reach the goal for sure.
I'm pretty certain EVE was created with far less budget than 30M USD.
Also a decade ago and exception.
See, the one that are stuck in the past I talked about
Exceptions happen every decade. Minecraft also started small and I don't know if it's developement budget still has surpassed 30M.
Roberts and Braben are no idiots. They know they cannot build a game with all the bells and whistles with the fundraising money. They either need to seek additional funding or start small. Personally, I would go for the latter as then they would be able to get direct player feedback early on the game and also immensely reduce the risk of building something big and having it fall flat on it's face at launch.
time for EvE to bring in some avatar based gameplay, walking in stations,...
Otherwise SC and Elite will drain a good part of the playerbase
Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.
Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.
The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself, and that would inevitably drain resources away from the space side of the game, which is what people are concerned about. CCP simply doesn't have the resources right now to pull it off wihout harming their existing product, and they've been wise enough to realize this. I for one would enjoy some avatar based gameplay, but until they can make it happen in a way that doesn't hurt the existing game, I'd rather it stay shelved.
Originally posted by tom_gore Personally, I would go for the latter
Starting small means releasing sub-par product, something utterly stupid on highly competitive and saturated market such as MMO market...
I guess you could release such game and get 1-2k subs(or equal revenue) but that won't get you far nor provide much opportunity to expand your business.
Comments
Yes he must be.
To like space sim and not know David Braben and Elite is a travesty. The WHOLE genre owes him respect (since he basically created the genre in pc gaming. It didn't exist before Elite).
I played the hell out of Elite on my C-64 back in the day. It was a fantastic game. Heck, it's one of the reasons that I picked up EVE originally. I really look forward to this iteration of the series and what Braben does with it.
That being said, I try to keep the following in mind:
1. E:D doesn't exist, and will not exist for at least a couple years. During its development, the dev team will run into issues and have to make compromises. I try to temper my claims (not my enthusiasm) about how it has features that EVE should have, or does something better. Right now, it does nothing that EVE does, nor does it do anything better.
2. E:D is not an MMORPG like EVE. It will be single player and have a multiplayer component. It's way more MMO than MMORPG.
3. EVE has been out for 10 years, has an incredibly rich history, has a large and mature universe that is affected by the players (sovereignty, for example), has a dizzying about of career possiblities, and has a complex character progression scheme. That's just to name a few of its features. If E:D or SC have even half the gameplay that EVE has now (and will have 2 years for now), I hope that both games succeed, along with EVE. It will be great for PC games to have multiple choices for those seeking a break from fanatasy-themed games.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
In related news...
A Tale In The Desert is adding space dogfighting within a procedurally generated galaxy because some other game said it was a good thing.
Granted the desert dwellers are still mastering how to turn clay into pottery, but we're sure they'll get the hang of piloting spacecraft in no time once they craft their fighters out of papyrus and mud.
His presentation sounds a lot like many EVE trailers from the past.
Looked good in the trailer.
EVE shouldnt have been anything other than what it is now, no member of the current community who isnt a troll, would play it any other way, CCP is a true developer who looks into the player's best interest aswell as asking the players for feedback and taking said feedback seriously.
EVE any other way wouldn't be EVE therefore EVE shouldn't have been Star Citizen.
J. B.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
lol , let the game release first and let people try it out and see how it goes from there. We've seen ALOT of devs doing stuff that should of been in many MMO's , and guess what? They ended up being major failures. I really don't care for Dev diaries and crap , release the game once it's polished and all , and I'll try it out for myself and do my own review on what I like and don't like , thank you very much.
Anyone can put up a web page with a bunch of killer game concepts. Lets see what actual code is in the open beta client before we start getting excited.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Eve is Eve.. it does very well because of that..
As for Elite Dangerous i cant bloody wait, backed it ages ago and i really hope they manage to make the target.
I just think its exciting for those pair to be making space games again, the genre has suffered over the recent decade or so. Only a few indie and small dev titles have been worth playing, classic space devs like Digital Anvil died. Unless Elite 2 and Star Citizen are disasters its actually going to good for EVE, bringing a whole new generation to space games will be good news for CCP. Many players might start off with those games and want to try EVE.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I don't think CCP has the resources to make that happen. AFAIK WiS has been put on hold, indefinitely.
Coming up are more "expansions" that patch existing stuff and add small bits and pieces of the same stuff.
But if they keep launching these "expansions" every 5-6 months like they do now, it's all good.
Well at least until a real alternative comes along.
Exactly how I see things. Think it will attract more interest. There's also always the indie batch of space games eg 0x10^c and one or two others.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
False appeal to authority.
Project matters, not the one who is pulling it off.
If I still had to base on authority, I would say it is those "old-school" devs that have the best chance to fail because how detached they are with current MMO market and it's customer base. Same as "hardcore" fans on these boards and games that are stuck in the past, unable to adapt and accept changes.
Without a decent budget(30-80M), small team can only deliver sub-par product. MMOs are too expensive to make. Simple math.
I'm pretty certain EVE was created with far less budget than 30M USD.
Rubbish, imagine yourself working in a HR department. You have two candidates, both have good CVs and both seem a good fit for the working enviroment. One of the however has a significant amount of refferances showing he has succsessfully completed several projects in the past. Which one would you employ?
Saying past experiance doesnt matter is absurd, no other word for it. Both of those designers defined the space genre in the 90s, with the current tech and resources available they should be able to come up with something amazing.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Also a decade ago and exception.
See, the one that are stuck in the past I talked about
None. CV means next to nothing for management position. It is the mind that matters, not the experience.
The "appeal to authority" logical fallacy is about something different.
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-authority/
Will never happen now. The captain's quarters was the first step on a long road to a truly immersive experience; unfortunately the perpetually myopic playerbase (and CCP's misguided attempt at a cash shop) built a wall right across the planned construction site. They're happy with their 'click orbit and pew pew pew' spaceship game, CCP's vision and all others be damned.
Sadly, looks like Elite: Dangerous won't reach its funding goal. Ah well, at least there's Star Citizen to look forward to in a few years.
This!!
10chars
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
No one said nothing should be added to EVE. You said EVE should have been like this particular game and they said, "No, EVE should be like EVE." Did you misunderstand or did you actually think this crowd would fall for that old trick?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
8 days to go, I'd say it will reach the goal for sure.
Exceptions happen every decade. Minecraft also started small and I don't know if it's developement budget still has surpassed 30M.
Roberts and Braben are no idiots. They know they cannot build a game with all the bells and whistles with the fundraising money. They either need to seek additional funding or start small. Personally, I would go for the latter as then they would be able to get direct player feedback early on the game and also immensely reduce the risk of building something big and having it fall flat on it's face at launch.
The problem with the walking around in EVE is that it would essentially have to be developed as a separate game unto itself, and that would inevitably drain resources away from the space side of the game, which is what people are concerned about. CCP simply doesn't have the resources right now to pull it off wihout harming their existing product, and they've been wise enough to realize this. I for one would enjoy some avatar based gameplay, but until they can make it happen in a way that doesn't hurt the existing game, I'd rather it stay shelved.
Starting small means releasing sub-par product, something utterly stupid on highly competitive and saturated market such as MMO market...
I guess you could release such game and get 1-2k subs(or equal revenue) but that won't get you far nor provide much opportunity to expand your business.