The thing with the MMORPGs we have right now is that you can't really roleplay in most of them.
You can pretend that you're some great blacksmith or whatever, but there is no way to make that actually happen in the game. The games are just too restrictive. They want you to go through the content and that's about it.
For me, roleplay has been reduced to interactions with friends who welcome (and understand) the activity. Even something as simple as chatting "in character" is foreign to most players. It's a shame because it adds a whole other dimension to gameplay.
Originally posted by Quirhid Computer RPGs have never really been about role play - atleast not the multiplayer ones (you can imagine what you are all by your lonesome). To get that fix, I suggest going back to PnP.
Even with PnP roleplay you had a great range of roleplaying. Some groups tended toward LARPing while others focused more on character development through gameplay. My regular group was focused more on making decisions in-character and mostly skipped the talk in-character part.
In MMORPGs roleplayers who talk in-character always remind me of LARPers and that is not a roleplaying style I enjoy. All my characters acquire unique personalities and quirks but I do not see a reason to act them out in the game.
This brings up an interesting topic that for some reason most people avoid.
Currently i am playing Planetside 2. I loved Planetside 1. I was there from Beta in PS1, and the same for PS2.
One of the things that almost everyone is complaining about is the lack of a "Meta-Game". Some kind of over-reaching thing to tie it all together. Something akin to a main storyline or epic quest type of thing.
I recently came to the revelation that PS1 never had a "designed in" Meta-Game. The players created it. They took what was a fun conquest type game and turned it into a global spanning epic that took it to the next level Groups of people looked at the game and started developing tactics that eventally turned into a way to "Win the Game" that no one thought was even possible.
And here we are 10 years later and people forget that these things were never even considered by the designers of the game. I think the problem isn't the games, it is the people playing it. They want everything spoonfed to them.
Star Wars:The Old Republic is a perfect example of this. They could have made that game into the most amazing game in the history of the franchise but they decided to pander to the WoW type crowd. Everything is too easy, Leveling to max requires no effort, the epic rivalry between factions is never truly fleshed out and the only real use of it is in arena battlegrounds.
People need to stop with the whole mentality that games have to be easy.
The companies realised that not-supporting roleplay was cheaper. (And a huge segment of their customers didn't care about it.)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yeah ... so? I was playing AD&D with college friends before ... it was fun .. but so are modern day video games. Just different.
You can still play PnP D&D, you know. Personally, i don't want to play a blacksmith, or a carpenter. If i want to carve wood for a job, i do it for real.
If you dont like this kind of thread why do you answer them? This is a forum you know and this topics is good as any.
To the op, most modern mmo are exactly that mmo and not mmorpg. Now you got fast action mmo, with mindless gameplay. That what people want so that what the devs give. You want to play real rpg games well play single player game and the old ones like i do.
and on this topic his opinion is as good as any. IMO it isnt much of a discussion if everyone just agrees with eeach other
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
One of the challenges that role-play faces is that many MMOs on the market favor highly goal-oriented, grind-focused players cultivating a play style which is to a certain extent antithetical to roleplay. That's no judgement on those players, it's just a consequence of design choices by the developers, and I don't think it was a conscious decision on the developers parts either. Certainly roleplay can emerge in the course of leveling your characters and PvP combat, but when everyone's racing to reach certain stat/item plateaus it doesn't leave a lot of time for the inbetween, the salt and pepper of a virutal world. It's all bread and butter, and anything else seems like a waste of time.
The other reality is that the MMO playerbase has expanded dramatically and has now reached many players who don't know or care about roleplay, and that's their right. It's harder to engage in it and not feel like a fool when you got players running around blatently ignoring it. Can a server that focuses on RP reasonably be enforced in this day and age?
This all brings up an interesting question: can you create a roleplaying game? Or is roleplay something that is fostered by the features you choose to include?
Because I think, for the most part, the roleplay detractors here have a point: games can't be designed as "roleplaying games." Then again, you really don't need much to foster roleplay, or give roleplayers a good environment in which to exist.
I believe roleplay in MMORPGs is fostered by the ancilliary features, those things like the character creator, emotes, structure customization, etc. If you have the ability to design the character you want, dress the character in the way that you want, have the character animate in the way you want, and design the "sets" or the playspace like you want, roleplayers can amuse themselves.
The funny thing about roleplaying tools is this: everyone, even the non-RPers, like the roleplay tools. Powergamers and immerson breakers like cool bases, cool costumes and cool emotes. They don't need them, like the roleplayers do, but they appreciate them when they are there.
The problem is that, as far as roleplaying tools are concerned, developers just aren't interested. They don't want free ranging, flexible costume options. They'd rather give you twelve faces, three body types, six races and hardwire your look to your gear. They aren't interested in giving your avatars a ton of neat emotes and animations. They'd rather you run all the time and have nothing to do but stand or fight. They aren't interested in giving you building tools to design sets and spaces. They'd rather you just run around in a non-descript guild hall with predesigned furniture and accessories.
Which, to me, is a shame. Because I don't see these things as features that cater only to roleplayers. The powergamers and immersion breakers like them too. But the difference is that, while the powergamers and immersion breakers like these features, they are absolutely essential to roleplayers. In fact, if you give roleplayers these features and no others, they'll happily amuse themselves. They'll just use text, weave their IC plots, while xXDEATHDEALERXx and Ub0rz4U gank their noobs, talk smack and get über. The two can coexist, like they coexisted in CoH.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
One of the challenges that role-play faces is that many MMOs on the market favor highly goal-oriented, grind-focused players cultivating a play style which is to a certain extent antithetical to roleplay. That's no judgement on those players, it's just a consequence of design choices by the developers, and I don't think it was a conscious decision on the developers parts either. Certainly roleplay can emerge in the course of leveling your characters and PvP combat, but when everyone's racing to reach certain stat/item plateaus it doesn't leave a lot of time for the inbetween, the salt and pepper of a virutal world. It's all bread and butter, and anything else seems like a waste of time.
The other reality is that the MMO playerbase has expanded dramatically and has now reached many players who don't know or care about roleplay, and that's their right. It's harder to engage in it and not feel like a fool when you got players running around blatently ignoring it. Can a server that focuses on RP reasonably be enforced in this day and age?
I think it is the consequence of developers responding to players' desire.
To some extent, many modern gamers are not interested in "role-playing" as defined in the old pnp rpgs. They are not interested in playing a role. They are interested to acquire power in a fantasy setting. And this power involves leveling, optimizing skill builds, and getting gear.
Think about it .. when players are discussing skill builds .. their focus is on DPS, and other power relevant, but totally role-playing breaking informatino and ideas. When discussing gear, i have never heard a players saying anything relevant to lore .. but often how perfect the stat is, and how much dps it will help increase. The lore is more or less irrelevant.
It is about the illusion of achievement, and not becoming another person in another world.
I agree that it was developers trying to cater to a crowd not drawn to MMOs from books or PnP but Mario Bros and Metroid. They watched as a big IP gain unprecedented sales and over the years as they dumbed down their game... they gained more customers!
So they made their games and waited for the money to roll in....
LOLOLOL
To thier horror they watched as the huge numbers they got at launch, to surely go up, started to fall and fall and fall. I feel bad for anyone that looses their job but there is only one World of Warcraft and so far every other attempt has fallen short. A couple shine brighter than others but most are much smaller versions than thier hope.
Why? Well for one there are a ton of options, lots of them with free options. Two, the games themselves are not build to hold attention that long. At least not long enough before the next free game catches their attention.
So what the point? Those games that do have "role playing" (in actions not just in character) options and a deeper experience will not gain the same amount of people as "the next big thing!" but the fans it does get will stay and take care of it.
Comments
Even with PnP roleplay you had a great range of roleplaying. Some groups tended toward LARPing while others focused more on character development through gameplay. My regular group was focused more on making decisions in-character and mostly skipped the talk in-character part.
In MMORPGs roleplayers who talk in-character always remind me of LARPers and that is not a roleplaying style I enjoy. All my characters acquire unique personalities and quirks but I do not see a reason to act them out in the game.
This brings up an interesting topic that for some reason most people avoid.
Currently i am playing Planetside 2. I loved Planetside 1. I was there from Beta in PS1, and the same for PS2.
One of the things that almost everyone is complaining about is the lack of a "Meta-Game". Some kind of over-reaching thing to tie it all together. Something akin to a main storyline or epic quest type of thing.
I recently came to the revelation that PS1 never had a "designed in" Meta-Game. The players created it. They took what was a fun conquest type game and turned it into a global spanning epic that took it to the next level Groups of people looked at the game and started developing tactics that eventally turned into a way to "Win the Game" that no one thought was even possible.
And here we are 10 years later and people forget that these things were never even considered by the designers of the game. I think the problem isn't the games, it is the people playing it. They want everything spoonfed to them.
Star Wars:The Old Republic is a perfect example of this. They could have made that game into the most amazing game in the history of the franchise but they decided to pander to the WoW type crowd. Everything is too easy, Leveling to max requires no effort, the epic rivalry between factions is never truly fleshed out and the only real use of it is in arena battlegrounds.
People need to stop with the whole mentality that games have to be easy.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
and on this topic his opinion is as good as any. IMO it isnt much of a discussion if everyone just agrees with eeach other
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
One of the challenges that role-play faces is that many MMOs on the market favor highly goal-oriented, grind-focused players cultivating a play style which is to a certain extent antithetical to roleplay. That's no judgement on those players, it's just a consequence of design choices by the developers, and I don't think it was a conscious decision on the developers parts either. Certainly roleplay can emerge in the course of leveling your characters and PvP combat, but when everyone's racing to reach certain stat/item plateaus it doesn't leave a lot of time for the inbetween, the salt and pepper of a virutal world. It's all bread and butter, and anything else seems like a waste of time.
The other reality is that the MMO playerbase has expanded dramatically and has now reached many players who don't know or care about roleplay, and that's their right. It's harder to engage in it and not feel like a fool when you got players running around blatently ignoring it. Can a server that focuses on RP reasonably be enforced in this day and age?
This all brings up an interesting question: can you create a roleplaying game? Or is roleplay something that is fostered by the features you choose to include?
Because I think, for the most part, the roleplay detractors here have a point: games can't be designed as "roleplaying games." Then again, you really don't need much to foster roleplay, or give roleplayers a good environment in which to exist.
I believe roleplay in MMORPGs is fostered by the ancilliary features, those things like the character creator, emotes, structure customization, etc. If you have the ability to design the character you want, dress the character in the way that you want, have the character animate in the way you want, and design the "sets" or the playspace like you want, roleplayers can amuse themselves.
The funny thing about roleplaying tools is this: everyone, even the non-RPers, like the roleplay tools. Powergamers and immerson breakers like cool bases, cool costumes and cool emotes. They don't need them, like the roleplayers do, but they appreciate them when they are there.
The problem is that, as far as roleplaying tools are concerned, developers just aren't interested. They don't want free ranging, flexible costume options. They'd rather give you twelve faces, three body types, six races and hardwire your look to your gear. They aren't interested in giving your avatars a ton of neat emotes and animations. They'd rather you run all the time and have nothing to do but stand or fight. They aren't interested in giving you building tools to design sets and spaces. They'd rather you just run around in a non-descript guild hall with predesigned furniture and accessories.
Which, to me, is a shame. Because I don't see these things as features that cater only to roleplayers. The powergamers and immersion breakers like them too. But the difference is that, while the powergamers and immersion breakers like these features, they are absolutely essential to roleplayers. In fact, if you give roleplayers these features and no others, they'll happily amuse themselves. They'll just use text, weave their IC plots, while xXDEATHDEALERXx and Ub0rz4U gank their noobs, talk smack and get über. The two can coexist, like they coexisted in CoH.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I think it is the consequence of developers responding to players' desire.
To some extent, many modern gamers are not interested in "role-playing" as defined in the old pnp rpgs. They are not interested in playing a role. They are interested to acquire power in a fantasy setting. And this power involves leveling, optimizing skill builds, and getting gear.
Think about it .. when players are discussing skill builds .. their focus is on DPS, and other power relevant, but totally role-playing breaking informatino and ideas. When discussing gear, i have never heard a players saying anything relevant to lore .. but often how perfect the stat is, and how much dps it will help increase. The lore is more or less irrelevant.
It is about the illusion of achievement, and not becoming another person in another world.
So they made their games and waited for the money to roll in....
LOLOLOL
To thier horror they watched as the huge numbers they got at launch, to surely go up, started to fall and fall and fall. I feel bad for anyone that looses their job but there is only one World of Warcraft and so far every other attempt has fallen short. A couple shine brighter than others but most are much smaller versions than thier hope.
Why? Well for one there are a ton of options, lots of them with free options. Two, the games themselves are not build to hold attention that long. At least not long enough before the next free game catches their attention.
So what the point? Those games that do have "role playing" (in actions not just in character) options and a deeper experience will not gain the same amount of people as "the next big thing!" but the fans it does get will stay and take care of it.