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Paid posters "Shills" and marketing.

2

Comments

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DrakynnIn my experience most of the people who would be accused of being shills here do not meet any of the skills required hehe.

    Exactly my thoughts and I would be very happy to have some more posters on here with listed qualities.

  • RedJorgeRedJorge LisbonPosts: 106Member

    Positive paid reviews and writing is a thrieving business, as you can see on this New York Times article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/business/book-reviewers-for-hire-meet-a-demand-for-online-raves.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Now, imagine how cheaper is to contract forum PvPers to defend a product. They cost a dime a dozen..:)

    RJ

    Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
    Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
    [laughs]
    Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
    [walks away]
    Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
    Sheldon: What?
    Penny: This plasma grenade.
    [explosion]
    Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
    Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I am sure we got paid shills in some of these forums, and in some cases they are very easy to spot.

    The point is to put the shill on ignore I got that message boy howdy. They don't want us calling out the shills, and they don't want to hear about I got that message loud and clear.

  • RedJorgeRedJorge LisbonPosts: 106Member

    Shills plague all internet forums, social networks, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

    We are all able to spot them..:)

     

    Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
    Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
    [laughs]
    Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
    [walks away]
    Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
    Sheldon: What?
    Penny: This plasma grenade.
    [explosion]
    Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
    Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DashiDMV
    STAR WARS THE OLD REPUBLIC IS THE BEST GAME EVER AND HAS 0 PROBLEMS. EA IS A WONDERFUL COMPANY TO WORK FOR AND ADMIRE AND JEFF HICKMAN ALWAYS MAKES GOOD DECISIONS.

    Yes, the best game ever.  The game play is spectacular.  The storylines are absolutely breathtaking and full of excitement.  The game is one of a kind.  EA definitely produced the greatest MMORPG of its kind.  We have never seen a game so unique and full of innovative and exciting content.

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,765Member Uncommon

    Is the cost of being a good enough shill to sustain a conversation on a forum such as this without it being obvious that you're a shill too high for it to be profitable for any company to hire you?  It might.  Bots exist for a reason, you know.

    It's much easier to be a good shill on review sites with no give and take among community members, as you don't have to read what anyone else said and take it into account when replying.

  • RedJorgeRedJorge LisbonPosts: 106Member

    Shills do not have to be really good.

    For most of the forums, it is enough to behave like a fanboy and slam everyone that complains about certain aspects of a game.

    Actually, most of the shills choose this path. Its easier than being very good at counteracting people´s rightful complains with apparently well constructed reasoning.

    Leonard: Penny, you are on fire.
    Penny: Yes, so is Sheldon.
    [laughs]
    Sheldon: Okay, that's it. I don't know how, but she is cheating. No-one can be that attractive and this skilled at a video game.
    [walks away]
    Penny: Wait, wait. Sheldon. Come back, you forgot something.
    Sheldon: What?
    Penny: This plasma grenade.
    [explosion]
    Penny: [laughs] Look! It's raining you.
    Sheldon: You laugh now. You just wait until you need tech support. (Big Bang Theory)

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    I'm laughing at the prospect of getting paid for well constructed reasoning but I guess political consultants get paid. I just have the feeling that game companies are cash strapped enough without having to worry about paying people to argue for them. Best strategy (and more economical) is to just create a good game and have us fanboys do it for free. :)
  • ghstwolfghstwolf hampstead, NHPosts: 386Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    It's much easier to be a good shill on review sites with no give and take among community members, as you don't have to read what anyone else said and take it into account when replying.

     

    True, which is why product reviews on a site like Amazon are nearly worthless.  The same can be said of many blogs too (some of the head to head comarisions are very even handed).  Unfortunately I also see a similar tendency in professional reviews, the kid gloves treatment smacks of a sort of "pay for play" syndrome.

    However, engaging an audience does have a value.  Ads only go so far to persude, reviews a bit further but an actual conversation can reach into the dark and skeptical corners.  There is also the potential to "leak" info (test something controversial) and get feed back without the damage "official" avenues will cause.  A good discussion can/will yield some great information, whether for actual design or for tuning the pitch.

    It's not that hard to justify the value or at the very least the potential value such a position can generate.  The bonus is this is a down time position, the sort of thing that doesn't need to pay very well.  20 quality posts a day isn't that hard or time consuming, it might take some one a couple hours, and that is on 1 site.  With 2-3 sites to canvas, that goes down as copy and paste could drop the actual posts to write down to 5 or 6.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    An easy and damning accusation without any burden of evidence.  Where have we seem this one before, Cotton Mather?

    If you must indulge in conspiracy theorist plots, there surely must be a few with bigger brands of villainyand with so many eager fanboys, why in the world would EvilGameCorp need to pay for the milk that the cow gives away for free?

    The main problem with conspiracy theories is they defy Occam.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    If you must indulge in conspiracy theorist plots, there surely must be a few with bigger brands of villainyand with so many eager fanboys, why in the world would EvilGameCorp need to pay for the milk that the cow gives away for free?

    The main problem with conspiracy theories is they defy Occam.

    It has been confirmed by the mods.. End of discussion

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Starpower

    It has been confirmed by the mods.. End of discussion

    That they exist?  Or that they are commonplace?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Starpower

    It has been confirmed by the mods.. End of discussion

    That they exist?  Or that they are commonplace?

    Commonplace wasn't used. I belive the word used was "frequently". Now I understand frequently is a relative statement but it sure does sound more powerful than "rarely"

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Starpower

    It has been confirmed by the mods.. End of discussion

    That they exist?  Or that they are commonplace?

    I believe this is in reference to

    Originally posted by Amana
    We do have a rule against advertising on these forums and we find and ban shills frequently. If you guys want to continue this discussion, please do not discuss current or past posters on this site. And definitely not by name. Thanks.

    Which does seem to be confrimation.

    I doubt however that most of the popel who get calle dor thought of a shills here actually are.I think the shills would be more subtle than the fanatical posters that evangicalize games tend to be,.In this case it doesn't defy occam's razor that there are shills but it does defy it that everyone that doesn't agree with you is a shill.

     

     

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Common place wasn't used. I belive it was "many"

    For something I once got warned for (just mentioning the word 'shill').

    Can I get my warning retracted (redacted?) ya'll?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • crysentcrysent cedar rapids, IAPosts: 845Member

    I don't think there is much that can be done about it to be honest.

     

    I'm guessing some of the mmorpg writers have various incentives at any given time.  Just look at Poklkets history, especially in regards to Star Wars.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    I doubt however that most of the popel who get calle dor thought of a shills here actually are.I think the shills would be more subtle than the fanatical posters that evangicalize games tend to be,.In this case it doesn't defy occam's razor that there are shills but it does defy it that everyone that doesn't agree with you is a shill.

    Occam's would be that "paid conpirist" is a more complicated explanation that "just another fanboy".

    You don't need to believe in faerie magic for technology to work.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RazperilRazperil Lewiston, MEPosts: 289Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Looking back on this past year on mmorpg.com, I can't help but think some of our former members (maybe current) were infact "shills". 

     

    This is a quick google search on paid paid forum posters. They seem to be in high demand. 

     

    The University of Chicago estimates 1/3 of reviews have some sort of financial incentive. 

     

    Here is an actual add form a company looking for posters

    We'd like posters who'll be able to make at least 20 posts a day; the more the better. 

    Skills required: 
    1. Have excellent written English skills and can interact with the users of the forum you are asked to post on. 
    2. Have excellent research skills as you’ll have to research about a particular thread topic before you post a reply to it. 
    3. Ability to read and understand something and write about it in their own words. 
    Payment will be on Net-30 basis and we'll pay based on performance. 

     

    My questions are do you think this is going on within our community? If so, how do we spot them?

    What do we do when we spot them? 

    Is it possible to prove that they are "shills"? 

    Can our forum sites do anything about them?

     

    Lastly, and most important, how has this affected the mmorpg industry?

    What a laugh. You honestly think a third of all posters are paid? If you go by what Universities say, well, I'd say you really need to wake up. How often do they change what they say? How often is what they say not 100%? I'm sure you can answer these questions yourself. We'll leave it at that :)

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razperil
    What a laugh. You honestly think a third of all posters are paid? If you go by what Universities say, well, I'd say you really need to wake up. How often do they change what they say? How often is what they say not 100%? I'm sure you can answer these questions yourself. We'll leave it at that :)

     

    Well the U.S.A. Today ranks the University of Chicago as the 4th best college in the country..., but I'm sure you don't "go by what they say" either huh?

     

     Those are fake google listings too, right? I will go with the researchers on this one. Thank for you thoughts though.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,904Member Uncommon

    Honestly, I don't see it as much of a problem for the industry.  All they are doing is injecting advertising into a media channel, and media channels in general are already packed with ads.  Of course the practice hurts companies that sell advertising, but that's not on topic.

     

    If I'm not likely to buy a game, I honestly doubt a shill poster would influence my decision.  I already don't believe the advertising because I worked in commercial broadcasting and know how bogus it can be.  Even a perfect pitch from a shill means nothing to me if the pitch obviously contradicts reality, and they usually do.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,469Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimal

    OP - Weren't you on Funcom's payroll during TSW launch?

    I'm just kidding. 

    I've noticed some suspicious poster(s) this past year.  I don't think we can do anything about it.

     FTC got a law passed a few years ago that applies to these types of situations.  If someone is endorsing a game and getting any kind of compensation they must state it.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by grimal

    OP - Weren't you on Funcom's payroll during TSW launch?

    I'm just kidding. 

    I've noticed some suspicious poster(s) this past year.  I don't think we can do anything about it.

     FTC got a law passed a few years ago that applies to these types of situations.  If someone is endorsing a game and getting any kind of compensation they must state it.

    Really? So this is illegal?

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member
    Originally posted by NBlitz
    Originally posted by apocoluster
    (...) Job is a job yall.  (...)

    Hear, hear.

    This was a common view expressed during the Nuremberg trials, as well.  I wouldn't put being a forum shill on the same level, of course. Same principle, though.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Starpower

    It has been confirmed by the mods.. End of discussion

    That they exist?  Or that they are commonplace?

    I believe this is in reference to

    Originally posted by Amana
    We do have a rule against advertising on these forums and we find and ban shills frequently. If you guys want to continue this discussion, please do not discuss current or past posters on this site. And definitely not by name. Thanks.

    Which does seem to be confrimation.

    I doubt however that most of the popel who get calle dor thought of a shills here actually are.I think the shills would be more subtle than the fanatical posters that evangicalize games tend to be,.In this case it doesn't defy occam's razor that there are shills but it does defy it that everyone that doesn't agree with you is a shill.

    The "logical" conclusion to paranoid reasoning. ^^^^^^^^^

  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member

    Sooner or later the game that is being talked about on the thread will speak for itself. I always suspect shills, especially on sites like amazon etc where you see glowing reviews and then you check the reviewer's other posts and find out he or she is 5 starring the same company's products.  

    also, i notice in here, when the first responder comments in a certain way, the rest tend to follow the thinking of that first comment -- i guess because they want to feel like they are 'included'.  I always enjoy seeing somebody taking their own stand, regardless of the previous posts.  And that is one way that we can all fight the shills --- use your OWN opinion and don't glom off of other's ideas. 

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This discussion has been closed.