MMORPG is one of the few genres that never gets named when people talk about violent video games.
Even though there is a lot of sword fighting and magic and killing, it is all set in a fantasy setting that has no equal in real-life. The games are social and don't glorify violence, there is no blood or gore or anything of the sorts in most MMO.
FPS used to be more fantasy like, now they are portrayals of real-life with real guns with real names of guns with realisic killings, I was shocked at last year's E3, how much violence was glorified as if it is some good thing. Many people after E3 were really upset at how gaming companies went about promoting their products.
I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.
I agree with you. I would also add that in my experience, FPS games attract a different crowd than MMORPGs. Or at least they used to. Now the lines are getting blurred and a lot of MMOs are attempting to cater to them.
I've never been interested in the 5 minute kill-fests in FPS. I guess it's the same reason I intensely dislike scenario PVP with their FPS-style scoreboards. Give me large scale open world continuous PVP like in DAoC or GW2 any day of the week over that esport garbage.
I also could care less if an MMO has combat like a martial arts arcade game. As a matter of fact if an MMO features that in their marketting, I usually stay away.
But yeah I feel the same way about modern soldier FPS as I do about the GTA franchise...they're sort of morally dodgy. I guess pimps and mercs would like thme though :P
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
And I was hitting on all this fluffy animal. That is way too violence... Eventhough you can't actually kill anything in that game only daze thing, but still... hitting on animal! Violence!
What is with mmorpg all about killing stuff. And fighting each other?
Originally posted by Iselin I would also add that in my experience, FPS games attract a different crowd than MMORPGs. Or at least they used to. Now the lines are getting blurred and a lot of MMOs are attempting to cater to them.
I would add that this is my experience, also. I find it is very similar to a cancer that has taken over the MMORPG genre.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
"Lung cancer risks depend far more strongly on the duration than on the daily dose-rate of cigarette smoking. For example, a three-fold increase in the daily dose-rate may produce only about a three-fold increase in effect, while a three-fold increase in duration might produce about a 100-fold increase in effect. Hence, a few decades after cigarette smoking becomes widespread, national lung cancer rates may remain very misleadingly low, even though they will eventually become extremely high."
Originally posted by Iselin I would also add that in my experience, FPS games attract a different crowd than MMORPGs. Or at least they used to. Now the lines are getting blurred and a lot of MMOs are attempting to cater to them.
I would add that this is my experience, also. I find it is very similar to a cancer that has taken over the MMORPG genre.
Only if MMORPG genre will be killed by this "cancer". It is more like a super power mutation that transformed the genre into better games.
There is scientific proof widely accepted by 99.9% of scientists that smoking causes cancer
There is zero scientific proof that playing cod turns you into a serial killer.
Your belief is just that, a belief.
SHOW us those facts genius.. I was a smoker and I don't have cancer.. You need to reread what I said and think about it some more..
I understand what you were trying to day. I however, do not believe it was the best comparison to bring up.
Violent video games can have an effect on a persons state of mind, just like smoking can cause cancer, However, this comparison doesn't work entirely because violent games doesn't ALWAYS have an effect on a persons state of mind. On the other hand, it is scientifically accurate that smoking has an immediate and long lasting effect on your physical state, from the first to the last moments that you smoke in your life. You may not be able to see the symptoms, and you may not get cancer, but it is still there.
Video games are in no way associated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.
There is definately some type of link between violent culture (movies, music, and video games) and real life violence. There have been too many documented cases of people snapping after playing video games or watching violent movies for this to just be blown off as natural violent tendencies or political scap goating.
Video games are in no way associated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.
There is definately some type of link between violent culture (movies, music, and video games) and real life violence. There have been too many documented cases of people snapping after playing video games or watching violent movies for this to just be blown off as natural violent tendencies or political scap goating.
I don't think there has been any documented cases of someone snapping after playing a video and if there was that would be a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. They would still need to prove that they snapped because of the video game.
However you are right ther is a link between violent cultures and RL Violence, however it is unknown to what extent, if any, the media (games, movies...) have on the culture of violence.
Just look at the the whole gun in schools debates (don't remember the countries and not going to bother to look it up, just using it as a comparison). Some countries have guns in schools (as in armed staff, or staff having access to arms) and still have high murder rates, others have guns in schools with low murder rates. The same applies for guns not in school.
Therefore all we can conclude is the the guns in school is not the issue. The culture of violence is.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The very first MMORPG I've played was where I was able to cut body parts up, collect heads of other players as trophies and was able to sell it on ebay because later, it became a rare and the person was sorta a legend. The person who bought it put it in their museum of rares they have collected.
The first MMO, I strictly went out to kill people.
This was before you ever played an MMO.
To me, MMOs are violent and graphic.
I think there was an MMORPG in a FPS style that predates the very first MMO you have played. I don't know which MMO you played first, but I can only assume based on your post.
Fallen Earth is another that has been out for quite awhile(years) and is free to play and is running now.
MMORPG is one of the few genres that never gets named when people talk about violent video games.
Even though there is a lot of sword fighting and magic and killing, it is all set in a fantasy setting that has no equal in real-life. The games are social and don't glorify violence, there is no blood or gore or anything of the sorts in most MMO.
FPS used to be more fantasy like, now they are portrayals of real-life with real guns with real names of guns with realisic killings, I was shocked at last year's E3, how much violence was glorified as if it is some good thing. Many people after E3 were really upset at how gaming companies went about promoting their products.
I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.
The MMORPG genre has different points you can critisize and actually there are some things which are not that great if you think more about it.
Actually, mmorpgs are based on GREED more and more. The whole marketing aims this, they aim the greed in peoples mind. Whether its about the f2p model or strategies to hold your longer in the game.
Its not just about character development. And since you mention "violent video games", the killing from mobs is existent and actually after a while even tedious since almost every game is based on killing mobs to advance.
Take the economics in most mmorpgs and the spur for more greed, you realize that actually mmorpgs have a lot more potential with a different approach, a different gameplay. There are still loads of ideas possible.
I would love to hear some voices what you are thinking about it.
There is more violence, war, murder and genocide in two of the three major religions and their holy books than most, if not all video games. People have been killing people since Cain slew Able. No,... video games or movies are not to blame. People simply need to own up to their actions and realize that they either know right from wrong, or they don't.
Originally posted by Justin9820 Video games are in no way assosiated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.
I don't want to argue that since that would get into politics which isn't allowed on the forum.
I just don't want MMORPG to go the way FPS went, violence is not glorified in MMO, it is a means to an end because it lends itself to engaging gameplay. But FPS took this too far, they glorify violence, from the box art to the trailers, you are encouraged to like violence, games make killings as realistic as possible. Hopefully this isn't the path MMO take and hopefully people do not put MMORPG and MMOFPS under the same bracket.
Violence is almost always a means to an end. Its always been that way, and it likely always will. The only difference is one of context and perception. The problem comes from the thoughtless, ignorant and/or evil application of violence. That last (evil) is the idea that ends justify any means used to achieve them. To a thoughtful, ethical person, they do not.
FPS is simply another aspect of gaming. In terms of violence, there is little difference if ones head is blown off by an AK74, or chopped off with a sword. Dead is dead. Humans are a predator species, violence is one means we have of dealing with reality. Hopefully we will learn to become more selective with that violence before we manage to wipe ourselves out.
If you examine MMORPG type violence, you will see the same types of things. Does it matter if the mobs are killed by a rain of fireballs from the sky, ripped apart by summoned demons or killed by a burst of automatic weapon fire? Dead is dead.
All three in terms of most peoples lives, are fantasy. What disturbs many people is the increasing graphic "realism" in the FPS games. Couple that with the perception of a difference between PvP and PvE in most peoples minds, and you have the essence of what disturbs many people.
One possible solution is to educate (rather than indoctrinate) people to understand the difference between fantasy, and reality. But that would require them to be actively thoughtful, rather than reactively emotive. Which of course would make them MUCH more difficult to manipulate and control.
Video games are in no way associated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.
Desensitisation dosen't come into it at all you think?
Can we see the reading you have done on the matter and the evidence to support what you say though? I am interested in what studies you base your firm set in stone statement on.
While an interesting concept, the difference between fantasy and reality needs to be addressed. In other words, its all about choice. While I may killed thousands and thousands of orcs, goblins, or even enemy humans, thats all with in the fantasy construct. Unless I had a seriously compelling reason (self defense most likely) I would never choose to use violence against another person in reality. Thats a choice that is open to everyone. The problem isn't the violence, its the thoughtless/sloppy blurrying of the line between reality and fantasy.
Still have yet to see a single shred of evidence linking violence with video games of any kind. Just because someone says it causes it they have no proof and are just looking for a scapegoat. Violence has to do with your brain and not your game.
Originally posted by Lexin Still have yet to see a single shred of evidence linking violence with video games of any kind. Just because someone says it causes it they have no proof and are just looking for a scapegoat. Violence has to do with your brain and not your game.
Many people take the "Monkey see, monkey do" perspective. Without of course taking into account the difference between most monkies and humans (there is some slight over lap...^^). Not to mention there is a certain amount of projection in many of these peoples perceptions. Mix that in with emotional manipulation "Its for the CHIL-DE-REN!!" and you have the reason much of this nonsense keeps getting repeated.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I'd love to know what video games, films and rock music people were into in Victorian times when we had a considerably higher murder rate.
Violent Shakespearean plays, of course :P Don't you know children were not allowed into R-rated, ultra violent Hamlet.
Comments
I agree with you. I would also add that in my experience, FPS games attract a different crowd than MMORPGs. Or at least they used to. Now the lines are getting blurred and a lot of MMOs are attempting to cater to them.
I've never been interested in the 5 minute kill-fests in FPS. I guess it's the same reason I intensely dislike scenario PVP with their FPS-style scoreboards. Give me large scale open world continuous PVP like in DAoC or GW2 any day of the week over that esport garbage.
I also could care less if an MMO has combat like a martial arts arcade game. As a matter of fact if an MMO features that in their marketting, I usually stay away.
But yeah I feel the same way about modern soldier FPS as I do about the GTA franchise...they're sort of morally dodgy. I guess pimps and mercs would like thme though :P
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I was playing hello kitty online.
And I was hitting on all this fluffy animal. That is way too violence... Eventhough you can't actually kill anything in that game only daze thing, but still... hitting on animal! Violence!
What is with mmorpg all about killing stuff. And fighting each other?
There is scientific proof widely accepted by 99.9% of scientists that smoking causes cancer
There is zero scientific proof that playing cod turns you into a serial killer.
Your belief is just that, a belief.
You make me like charity
SHOW us those facts genius.. I was a smoker and I don't have cancer.. You need to reread what I said and think about it some more..
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Anyone with google should be able to find literature on the relationship between cancer rate and smoking. Here is one of the huge literature on it.
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/3623669/reload=0;jsessionid=TRSHiDpizoMyuL1xajpv.12
"Lung cancer risks depend far more strongly on the duration than on the daily dose-rate of cigarette smoking. For example, a three-fold increase in the daily dose-rate may produce only about a three-fold increase in effect, while a three-fold increase in duration might produce about a 100-fold increase in effect. Hence, a few decades after cigarette smoking becomes widespread, national lung cancer rates may remain very misleadingly low, even though they will eventually become extremely high."
Only if MMORPG genre will be killed by this "cancer". It is more like a super power mutation that transformed the genre into better games.
Okay.
I think it's great.
Next.
I understand what you were trying to day. I however, do not believe it was the best comparison to bring up.
Violent video games can have an effect on a persons state of mind, just like smoking can cause cancer, However, this comparison doesn't work entirely because violent games doesn't ALWAYS have an effect on a persons state of mind. On the other hand, it is scientifically accurate that smoking has an immediate and long lasting effect on your physical state, from the first to the last moments that you smoke in your life. You may not be able to see the symptoms, and you may not get cancer, but it is still there.
There is definately some type of link between violent culture (movies, music, and video games) and real life violence. There have been too many documented cases of people snapping after playing video games or watching violent movies for this to just be blown off as natural violent tendencies or political scap goating.
I don't think there has been any documented cases of someone snapping after playing a video and if there was that would be a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. They would still need to prove that they snapped because of the video game.
However you are right ther is a link between violent cultures and RL Violence, however it is unknown to what extent, if any, the media (games, movies...) have on the culture of violence.
Just look at the the whole gun in schools debates (don't remember the countries and not going to bother to look it up, just using it as a comparison). Some countries have guns in schools (as in armed staff, or staff having access to arms) and still have high murder rates, others have guns in schools with low murder rates. The same applies for guns not in school.
Therefore all we can conclude is the the guns in school is not the issue. The culture of violence is.
The very first MMORPG I've played was where I was able to cut body parts up, collect heads of other players as trophies and was able to sell it on ebay because later, it became a rare and the person was sorta a legend. The person who bought it put it in their museum of rares they have collected.
The first MMO, I strictly went out to kill people.
This was before you ever played an MMO.
To me, MMOs are violent and graphic.
I think there was an MMORPG in a FPS style that predates the very first MMO you have played. I don't know which MMO you played first, but I can only assume based on your post.
Fallen Earth is another that has been out for quite awhile(years) and is free to play and is running now.
It's an RPG game.
The MMORPG genre has different points you can critisize and actually there are some things which are not that great if you think more about it.
Actually, mmorpgs are based on GREED more and more. The whole marketing aims this, they aim the greed in peoples mind. Whether its about the f2p model or strategies to hold your longer in the game.
Its not just about character development. And since you mention "violent video games", the killing from mobs is existent and actually after a while even tedious since almost every game is based on killing mobs to advance.
Take the economics in most mmorpgs and the spur for more greed, you realize that actually mmorpgs have a lot more potential with a different approach, a different gameplay. There are still loads of ideas possible.
I would love to hear some voices what you are thinking about it.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Violence is almost always a means to an end. Its always been that way, and it likely always will. The only difference is one of context and perception. The problem comes from the thoughtless, ignorant and/or evil application of violence. That last (evil) is the idea that ends justify any means used to achieve them. To a thoughtful, ethical person, they do not.
FPS is simply another aspect of gaming. In terms of violence, there is little difference if ones head is blown off by an AK74, or chopped off with a sword. Dead is dead. Humans are a predator species, violence is one means we have of dealing with reality. Hopefully we will learn to become more selective with that violence before we manage to wipe ourselves out.
If you examine MMORPG type violence, you will see the same types of things. Does it matter if the mobs are killed by a rain of fireballs from the sky, ripped apart by summoned demons or killed by a burst of automatic weapon fire? Dead is dead.
All three in terms of most peoples lives, are fantasy. What disturbs many people is the increasing graphic "realism" in the FPS games. Couple that with the perception of a difference between PvP and PvE in most peoples minds, and you have the essence of what disturbs many people.
One possible solution is to educate (rather than indoctrinate) people to understand the difference between fantasy, and reality. But that would require them to be actively thoughtful, rather than reactively emotive. Which of course would make them MUCH more difficult to manipulate and control.
While an interesting concept, the difference between fantasy and reality needs to be addressed. In other words, its all about choice. While I may killed thousands and thousands of orcs, goblins, or even enemy humans, thats all with in the fantasy construct. Unless I had a seriously compelling reason (self defense most likely) I would never choose to use violence against another person in reality. Thats a choice that is open to everyone. The problem isn't the violence, its the thoughtless/sloppy blurrying of the line between reality and fantasy.
Many people take the "Monkey see, monkey do" perspective. Without of course taking into account the difference between most monkies and humans (there is some slight over lap...^^). Not to mention there is a certain amount of projection in many of these peoples perceptions. Mix that in with emotional manipulation "Its for the CHIL-DE-REN!!" and you have the reason much of this nonsense keeps getting repeated.
Violent Shakespearean plays, of course :P Don't you know children were not allowed into R-rated, ultra violent Hamlet.