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Originally posted by MindTrigger Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by SEANMCAD Originally posted by DrCokePepsi ...
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Generally speaking, Gaming consoles are computers. The only thing they are lacking is the ability to us Productivity Software. Even that may change with the release of Windows 8. Honestly speaking, Microsoft could easily release a "XBOX Computer" that can play their games, run office, and browse the internet.
We're almost there as it is. Think about it. You can browse the internet, download apps to suppliment certain websites, like TNT, ESPN, Crunchyroll, Hulu, etc.
I see us moving towards your "XBOX" or "Playstation" as being your entertainment device for your TV. Toss in an equalizer, some speakers, and you could do it right now.
Raquelis in various gamesPlayed: EverythingPlaying: League of Legends, EQ1 (Ragefire Lockjaw), Dark Souls III, HearthstoneWants: The WorldAnticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon
Tablets aren't doing anything to PC gaming. They are introducing masses to gaming. I think it's a good thing .
Tablets are part of the transition that's been going on in the gaming industry. The casual market took off thanks to tablet, facebook games and so on.
The most important thing to watch out for is how is going to influence input devices. Is touch going to completely take over? I don't think so, but the era of physical input like controllers or mouse and keyboards is definitely going to end eventually. How are we going to end up? Who knows! It's probably going to be some kind of hybrid technology between all input types available.
Originally posted by mmoDAD Tablet gaming... I'd honestly rather bust out the old NES / SNES. Tablet gaming / Twitter / facebook = Social Bacteria.
The only use I have for my ipad now is bathroom reading material. My laptop and netbook are just superior pieces of technology for my needs. And don't even get me started on Twatter let alone facebook. I can't believe people are still using facebook. It's madness, I tell you
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Cecropia Originally posted by mmoDAD Tablet gaming... I'd honestly rather bust out the old NES / SNES. Tablet gaming / Twitter / facebook = Social Bacteria.
So true. The only reason I use Facebook is because of my siblings and parents. Otherwise, I wouldn't have it.
Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one that uses a tablet in the can. I play Minecraft or browse ESPN while I make my "deposit" with the 1st Bank of John.
Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by Quizzical Allowing more power consumption will probably always allow for desktops to be dramatically faster than tablets. It would take some radical and revolutionary changes--most notably including completely replacing transistors by something else--to have any chance of changing that.
Power consumed = heat generated. That's what happens to the power when it gets used. It's the law of conservation of energy.
And yes, heat dissipation is the more direct problem. From a battery perspective, you could make a tablet that puts out 40 W and just has a really short battery life. But if you try to fit that into a typical tablet form factor, you probably have a heat-related hardware failure before you manage to drain the battery.
I find console peripheral gaming is a brutal idea.Their shelf life is about 2-3 years,as the makers find new gimmicks to sell each and every christmas.Pc's although always improving,the games actually do not.Simple case in point,the devs don't want to retrain,so they stick forever with old tech.Also devs don't like to alienate customers,so yo ustill see them using DX9 ,even tohugh we have seen DX 10 [Vista] DX11 win 7 and now Windows 8 DX libraries.We will probably see Windows 10/11/12 before we see any dev making a Win 8 game.
The problem i see is overall bandwidth ,memory and still the need for space.If a game tries to stream or play like a browser game,then yes it wil lbe crap.No question the technology is here,just look at the Epic Citadel app by Epic games.That was a simple map made by one person that is more detaield than msot otehr games maps that are doing a lot of bragging.
IMO Epic will be the ongoing leader,they are a brilliant developer and technical operation.It is just too bad they are not into making MMORPG's,i guess they really don't have the time to commit long term to a great game design.
I do not see anyone at all breaking ground before Epic,we will see tons of cheap games pop up no question about it.Every new peripheral that coems along,somebody gets rich off it because it is NEW.Then media starts telling us how great it is and they are making millions,all the while not telling you about all the devs that fail and lose their shirt.
IMO EVERYTHING we see for several years will be cheap products,fast designs ,like one year max,small teams like 30 or so and small budgets like less than 5 million.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think this conversation is a little confused, let me try to explain.
Tablets will not technically replace PC MMOs. That is not realistic. HOWEVER, the market is currently tapping into a large demographic that is fairly new (in that it some what was unknown) the 'casual' market. Could the industry as a whole start moving games to other non-PC devices by creating games that dont require as much processing power while at the same time reducing the amount of what we call AAA games?
Originally posted by Roguewiz Generally speaking, Gaming consoles are computers. The only thing they are lacking is the ability to us Productivity Software. Even that may change with the release of Windows 8. Honestly speaking, Microsoft could easily release a "XBOX Computer" that can play their games, run office, and browse the internet.
Consoles are closed platforms, which means you can't run anything on them unless it's approved by whoever controls the platform. PCs (whether Windows, Mac, or Linux) are open platforms, which means you can run whatever you want. At the moment, tablets are mixed, with iOS and Windows RT as closed platforms while Google Android is an open platform. There is a place for both in the world, and they're not interchangeable.
Consoles can't move to being open platforms, as being a closed platform is their very reason to exist. Closed platform means piracy is much, much harder to do. Games need robust anti-piracy measures if they want to make any money. The only two anti-piracy measures that people have come up with that actually work are putting your game on a closed platform or requiring a constant Internet connection to play the game at all. The latter is a problem for single-player games, especially when people want to be able to play without needing an active Internet connection. That's why single-player games mostly stick to closed platforms.
Meanwhile, online games have the Internet connection requirement built in and have no need for closed platforms as an anti-piracy measure. Furthermore, online games want open platforms, as that lets you update the game whenever you want, and without paying a large cut of your revenue to whoever controls the platform in order to get them to let your game run. That's why MMORPGs on closed platforms are still very rare.
That's why it's highly probable that we'll see more MMORPGs made for Google Android than for iOS, PlayStation 4, XBox 720, and Wii U added together.
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by apocoluster Voted Yes but ...only IF tablets ever outpace PCs for capabitlity. Seems like it will be a while if ever..
As far as die size goes, you can make a tablet chip as big as a desktop chip. The die in an Apple A5 (iPad 3), for example, is nearly as big as the die in a Core i7-3770K, and likely larger than the die in an A6-5400K. The reason you can't put those other chips in a tablet is due to power consumption, not die size.
Allowing more power consumption will probably always allow for desktops to be dramatically faster than tablets. It would take some radical and revolutionary changes--most notably including completely replacing transistors by something else--to have any chance of changing that.
XPS 12 Ultrabook™ met Touch. i5 and i7 version
Originally posted by Darrgen No but i do see tablets and laptops becoming one and the same. Convertable notebooks are already happening but soon i think you will see even more kinda like the asus transformer prime book. It's a tablet the connects to a keyboard that holds a graphics card and if im not mistaken a stronger processer. So basically you can disconnect it and have the same things you get with a tablet, or connect it to the keyboard and have the power needed for gaming.
While I do think we'll see a lot more laptop/tablet hybrids as the coming year brings a lot more tablets with performance that would be acceptable for a low end laptop, I don't think that's going to come anywhere near replacing laptops. A tablet means that all of your functional hardware has to fit in a very small space, and right behind the monitor, which doesn't like to get terribly hot. The amount of performance you can get in a chip with a tablet-friendly 5 W TDP trails way behind what you can get in a 35 W TDP that fits comfortably in a laptop.
What you can stick in the keyboard dock side of a hybrid device is somewhat limited. A loose guideline is that if you can get it for a desktop in an external USB device, then you could put it in the keyboard dock of a hybrid device. Putting a keyboard and trackpad there is easy, of course. I don't think that putting a battery or more storage (whether a hard drive or SSD) on the keyboard dock side would be all that difficult.
Putting a more powerful CPU and GPU in the keyboard dock for use when the device is used as a laptop rather than a tablet would probably mean that you have to duplicate much of the hardware on both sides. It would be a nifty device, but that's cost++;, and it's not going to be especially portable.
Originally posted by adeptuz In short I see tablet gaming the same as other portable gaming platforms. Their marketing audience differs radically from desktop gaming. So I don't see it ruining PC gaming at all.
This is how I view tablet games too.
Tablets are a pretty cool invention but I can't find any use for them personally. My phone does everything I need from a mobile computer.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
Originally posted by Reklaw Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by apocoluster Voted Yes but ...only IF tablets ever outpace PCs for capabitlity. Seems like it will be a while if ever..
A 17 W TDP in a tablet is a bad idea. Trying to dissipate that much heat safely adds tremendously to the cost, which is why the device you link to starts at $1200 and goes up from there. It's not going to be terribly portable as tablets, go, either.
Another cost advantage of laptops over tablets is this: what do you want to happen if a memory chip fails? In a tablet or ultrabook, you have to replace the whole thing outright. In a normal laptop, you can go buy a different memory module to replace the one that failed. The same is true for storage, or if you later decide that you want to upgrade memory or storage.
What I do think could easily happen is that gaming tablets could replace portable consoles like the PlayStation Vita and the many incarnations of Game Boy. For example, something like this:
But not exactly that, as Razer tends to charge super high end price tags for hardware that isn't high end at all, and while they are supposedly going to bring the Fiona to market, it's with an aging Tegra 3 chip.
Regardless, something like that would get you all of the portability of a tablet, while still having some decent options for input controls. Stick a next generation tablet chip in it (Nvidia Tegra 4, AMD Temash, or some quad core Cortex A15 chip with PowerVR Rogue graphics) and you'll have ample performance for tablet gaming.
No. Tablets are no threat. The only other threat that will plague our terrible MMOs with more terrible MMOs are console systems. Once MMOs get big on console systems, everyone will do it. I'm sure that they will release for PC, too... but most console to PC ports suck and feel so dumbed down.
It will most likely happen.
Tablets are already replacing laptops, they won't do anything to PC's. Tablets for gaming aren't bad but they have a long ways to go. So far I've modded a few to run a couple of older MMO's, but it's touch and go. Other modders are working on different hardware testing to find the limits of some of the higher end tablets.
And it isn't just modders looking into replacing Laptops...
This was presented at Think Next 2012.
Laptops are definitely on their way out with maybe a few exceptions.
PC though, nah lol thats here to stay for a long time to come.
Nope they will not do anything to PC gaming..
People have been saying that for years about consoles killing off PC gaming.. but we are all still here playing games on our PCs..
a high spec PC will always be the best thing out there for gaming and nothing will come close..
Tablets might well kill off ultrabooks, since ultrabooks are already saddled with most of the drawbacks of tablets. Tablets are also thinner than ultrabooks, and being thin most of the point of an ultrabook. Tablets can also be a lot cheaper than ultrabooks, though people shopping for ultrabooks aren't price-sensitive.
Unless, of course, you want to argue that ultrabooks are already dead, which is reasonable enough. For gaming purposes, ultrabooks are sure a non-starter, so killing off ultrabook gaming should be easy enough.
But killing off normal laptops? No. Some people who get laptops care about performance, reliability, or input options, and tablets will never be able to compete there.
Originally posted by Quizzical But killing off normal laptops? No. Some people who get laptops care about performance, reliability, or input options, and tablets will never be able to compete there.
Never say never.
I have more processing power for gaming in my phone now than I had in my gaming PC 10 years ago. (may not be 100% accurate but you get the point)
Also, Samsung just recently announced they can do 14nm die process.
There are phones with quad cores now, and they'll be adding more and more and more graphics cores to mobile chips/devices.
There will come a point when we have the raw processing power to do "cutting edge" graphics on phones/tablets.
At that point it'll just all be about input method - which a lot of new tablets are coming fully stocked with USB ports and docking stations for monitors and more input options.
PC and laptop tech will keep advancing sure - but we all know graphical capability has its limitations - will we ever get something that looks nicer or runs smoother than modern day CGI pre-rendered scenes?
I don't think so - unless you want to talk augmented reality and 3D and/or virtual interfaces etc. etc.
But we'll get to the point of real time CGI level pretty damn soon here - Square's new engine supposedly already does it, as does (supposedly) Unreal 4.
Looking at the rate of technology, and if following the trends means anything, tablets will be just as powerful as a high end laptop within a couple years. Hell, you can already get a tablet as fast a mid-range laptop using the i5 processors.
With that said, I don't think tablet gaming will ever take over typical PC Gaming, but I think it will add to it. More than likely people will just have their tablet hooked up to a mouse and keyboard (and maybe monitor) to play your typical games. Hell, I can already play games using a mouse/keyboard or controller using my older Acer Iconia A500.
No way... I was so fed up with the whole tablet gaming that I bought myself a playstation vita, I I dont regret it a second.
The only thing that will ruin PC gaming is when the next generation of consoles come out.
Originally posted by Quizzical Tablets might well kill off ultrabooks, since ultrabooks are already saddled with most of the drawbacks of tablets. Tablets are also thinner than ultrabooks, and being thin most of the point of an ultrabook. Tablets can also be a lot cheaper than ultrabooks, though people shopping for ultrabooks aren't price-sensitive. Unless, of course, you want to argue that ultrabooks are already dead, which is reasonable enough. For gaming purposes, ultrabooks are sure a non-starter, so killing off ultrabook gaming should be easy enough. But killing off normal laptops? No. Some people who get laptops care about performance, reliability, or input options, and tablets will never be able to compete there.
Have you not been following the tablet hardware market? It is astonishing how quickly they are growing. Your earlier comment stating you don't believe that Tablets will catch up to desktop performance for another 17 to 18 years is also a little nuts IMO. Considering where we are now, and recent developments that Intel has made in processors (ie; protons), your estimates are a little skewed. The market will push where the money is, and right now there is a ton of money in tablets. Furthermore, if you look how technology progresses, it gets more and more rapid. So, with the fact we are on the brink of quantum computing in our homes (though not fully fledged), already have cell phones capable of running demanding apps, tablets with high-res screens and fully operational OS's that can run modern games.... I see no reason why it would take so long for them to catch up. Just look at the size of the MacBook Pro Retina, or Macbook Air. The retina 15 has so much frickin power in it that it outclasses MANY desktops at the store, and really, its not far off from being scaled down a little futher to become a tablet.
If anything, I would expect tablets to become quite powerful (which they already are), and become the primary PC of many homes. Hell, there are already tablets that can run WoW and many other games. I would estimate 2-5 years tops till we see tablets having more than enough power and accessibility to become the primary PC of any home (which some people already do).