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The WarZ - The wider issues.

TheAncientTheAncient KirkcaldyPosts: 67Member

By now it must be unlikely that any reader here doesn't know of the trainwreck that The WarZ has become. If you have been following what has happened recently then there are a number of issues that have for me have shown that MMO's (and IMHO The WarZ is not an MMO, but that's another discussion) and gaming in general have slid down a slippery slope.

  • Paying for early access.
It's hard to think of any other consumer item whereby we'd pay for an unfinished product, never mind at ridiculous prices. You wouldn't buy a TV from even respectable manufactures like Panasonic or Samsung in the hope they might add sound or colour in the future, never mind a relatively unknown? How did we reach this stage?
 
  • Cash Shops that go beyond buying fluff.
We talk about pay to win, but The WarZ seems to have gone further. Pay to resurrect a toon? Pay to have a viable weapon just to survive? This on top of buying the game? We used to buy a game outright and play it for fun but now that isn't enough, someone has seen a way of not just reaching into your pocket and taking your money but grabbing your balls at the same time and squeezing. Where does it end?
 
  • When did we stop being fellow gamers?
Total Biscuit made a very poignant comment in his Vlog following his First Impressions take on The WarZ. It was to the effect that we have stopped being fellow gamers that looked out for one another and have became fan boys. In my opinion, some of us have became fans boys that defend the indefensible, and that includes columnist and websites. What happened to fair reviews that took the consumer into account?
 
It's hard to find a thread now that if someone posts a somewhat controversial comment, that many seem to attack the the poster on a personal level and ignore the actual points being made irrespective if they are valid or not.
 
Maybe it's time we took a step back and looked at where our gaming is taking us.

Comments

  • PhayzPhayz Redding, CAPosts: 61Member

    First of all, when was the last time you played the game? if at all? You can no longer pay to have yourself revived early, it's out of the game. Second, the cash shop is hardly pay to win, sure you can buy SOME ammo, but the only ammo you can buy is for the more rare weapons in the game, which are pretty hard to come by (can't buy any actual guns), you can also buy some body armor and melee weapons/food as well as some other stuff, but what the hell does that matter? It's not like this stuff makes them invincible, I've killed tons of bandits that had way better gear than I, it's really not that hard to outplay others in this game...if anything, those items are their downfall because they become overly confident/cocky to the point that it just makes them easy targets...oh and also, it's not like they get to keep these items forever, if they die, they lose everything they had on them, which doesn't really, imo, inspire people to buy stuff for real money when it can be taken away so easily.

    "Pay to have a viable weapon just to survive?" 

    You aren't being forced to pay for a melee weapon, it's not that hard to find them in the game world...scavanging is part of surviving in this game, if you don't have a weapon, go find one...you might have to be a little more careful around zombies and extra careful around other players, but that's just how things are in this game...unless you want to take all the fun away from finding stuff and get a melee weapon from the store. While I don't really like the cash shop, I can live with it, it's not game breaking things they have in there. I also don't mind if a developer wants to make a little extra cash for future development...

    People act like this is the first game to ever have a cash shop, plenty of POPULAR games have cash shops WAY worse than this, yet people choose to single this game out because it was on steam and didn't have the all of the features that were in the description...YET.  

    That's another thing, it seems like consumers act as if this is the first game to ever promise something that doesn't end up being implemented immediately, well guess what, it's NOT the first, and it definitely won't be the last...and then there's people complaining about the description on steam, while I agree it could have been written up better, but shit happens I guess...personally I partly blame the consumer for not doing a shred of research before buying a product... Seriously people, know what you're buying before you buy it... read forums, watch youtube videos, ASK people what they think about it, READ reviews! It's not hard! I know that doesn't excuse developers for being sloppy, but the consumer has to take SOME responsiblity for buying into a product without prior knowledge/research of what exact features are CURRENTLY in the game.

    I think if consumers do what they are doing to The War Z (granted, they did it to themselves), to bigger and better developers, I think we would see better quality games on the market...lol. 

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheAncient
    • Paying for early access.
    It's hard to think of any other consumer item whereby we'd pay for an unfinished product, never mind at ridiculous prices. You wouldn't buy a TV from even respectable manufactures like Panasonic or Samsung in the hope they might add sound or colour in the future, never mind a relatively unknown? How did we reach this stage?

    This is what bothers me the most, TBH. I don't have anything against the "pre-order for beta" models of some games like Firefall or GW2, but nowadays people seem to buy stuff from unknown devs whose only track record is Big Rigs without seeing any real gameplay. Why would someone do that? It makes no sense.

  • UnfriendlyUnfriendly HvidovrePosts: 21Member

    Believing the lies that the game makers write on the game information page is the consumers own fault?

  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Great YarmouthPosts: 397Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phayz

    First of all, when was the last time you played the game? if at all? You can no longer pay to have yourself revived early, it's out of the game. Second, the cash shop is hardly pay to win, sure you can buy SOME ammo, but the only ammo you can buy is for the more rare weapons in the game, which are pretty hard to come by (can't buy any actual guns), you can also buy some body armor and melee weapons/food as well as some other stuff, but what the hell does that matter? It's not like this stuff makes them invincible, I've killed tons of bandits that had way better gear than I, it's really not that hard to outplay others in this game...if anything, those items are their downfall because they become overly confident/cocky to the point that it just makes them easy targets...oh and also, it's not like they get to keep these items forever, if they die, they lose everything they had on them, which doesn't really, imo, inspire people to buy stuff for real money when it can be taken away so easily.

    "Pay to have a viable weapon just to survive?" 

    You aren't being forced to pay for a melee weapon, it's not that hard to find them in the game world...scavanging is part of surviving in this game, if you don't have a weapon, go find one...you might have to be a little more careful around zombies and extra careful around other players, but that's just how things are in this game...unless you want to take all the fun away from finding stuff and get a melee weapon from the store. While I don't really like the cash shop, I can live with it, it's not game breaking things they have in there. I also don't mind if a developer wants to make a little extra cash for future development...

    People act like this is the first game to ever have a cash shop, plenty of POPULAR games have cash shops WAY worse than this, yet people choose to single this game out because it was on steam and didn't have the all of the features that were in the description...YET.  

    That's another thing, it seems like consumers act as if this is the first game to ever promise something that doesn't end up being implemented immediately, well guess what, it's NOT the first, and it definitely won't be the last...and then there's people complaining about the description on steam, while I agree it could have been written up better, but shit happens I guess...personally I partly blame the consumer for not doing a shred of research before buying a product... Seriously people, know what you're buying before you buy it... read forums, watch youtube videos, ASK people what they think about it, READ reviews! It's not hard! I know that doesn't excuse developers for being sloppy, but the consumer has to take SOME responsiblity for buying into a product without prior knowledge/research of what exact features are CURRENTLY in the game.

    I think if consumers do what they are doing to The War Z (granted, they did it to themselves), to bigger and better developers, I think we would see better quality games on the market...lol. 

    I can see that your passionate about WarZ, however wouldn't you be disappointed if you came into this game without ever having followed it, looked over the game at Steam and thought "That zombie PvP game looks damn interesting, I may just buy that" You've read what the game has to offer, it's features list and feeling excited to get into something that is very different from your run of the mill MMO's

    The rub here is that features list included things that where "In the pipeline" no argument with you that they will be coming but to the new guy who only just heard and started the game those features that where on the "Box" aren't there, I know I'd be a little upset myself, if it was a single player game I'd have taken it straight back to the shop I just bought it and got a refund.

    My point is your going to find that some ppl who are being vocal about the game also include ppl that haven't been with the game since the start, they've only just found it for many reasons, but they shouldn't have this held against them, they aren't noobs, they aren't idoits for not finding out about the game before hand, they just bought the game on good faith that what was advertised was actually there and fully functioning.

    Now ofc things are changing, they have to because of all the bad publicity surrounding the game, this game will now be forever tarnished because of what has happened, no matter how many loyal fans to the game come here and protest, gamers have long long memories and they will ALWAYS come back to the launch of the game, it's been years since Anarchy Online launched, it's a very stable game these days, still active yet I'll bet you there are still alot of ppl that remember it's absolutely terrible start, the same with AoC yet the game has moved on since those days and is 100% healthier, yet ppl always remember the bad before the good.

    A friend of mine is actually playing this game, and I have been interested in it myself and was going to buy it, but this whole issue have put me off, for the time being. In time things will improve, I hope, but until that time I will watch and listen to what happens, and listen to my friend who is inside the game to find out whats changing and whats being improved.

     

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by TheAncient
    By now it must be unlikely that any reader here doesn't know of the trainwreck that The WarZ has become. If you have been following what has happened recently then there are a number of issues that have for me have shown that MMO's (and IMHO The WarZ is not an MMO, but that's another discussion) and gaming in general have slid down a slippery slope. Paying for early access. It's hard to think of any other consumer item whereby we'd pay for an unfinished product, never mind at ridiculous prices. You wouldn't buy a TV from even respectable manufactures like Panasonic or Samsung in the hope they might add sound or colour in the future, never mind a relatively unknown? How did we reach this stage?   Cash Shops that go beyond buying fluff. We talk about pay to win, but The WarZ seems to have gone further. Pay to resurrect a toon? Pay to have a viable weapon just to survive? This on top of buying the game? We used to buy a game outright and play it for fun but now that isn't enough, someone has seen a way of not just reaching into your pocket and taking your money but grabbing your balls at the same time and squeezing. Where does it end?   When did we stop being fellow gamers? Total Biscuit made a very poignant comment in his Vlog following his First Impressions take on The WarZ. It was to the effect that we have stopped being fellow gamers that looked out for one another and have became fan boys. In my opinion, some of us have became fans boys that defend the indefensible, and that includes columnist and websites. What happened to fair reviews that took the consumer into account?   It's hard to find a thread now that if someone posts a somewhat controversial comment, that many seem to attack the the poster on a personal level and ignore the actual points being made irrespective if they are valid or not.   Maybe it's time we took a step back and looked at where our gaming is taking us.

    Believe me, becouse of all of this paying upfront or cashshops or other methods DLC ive even spent less on gaming then i did years ago.

    It have opposite effect they alinate me more and more trying to get my money.

    I buy boxed games in shop( I think its all ripoff digital prices they ask for a game 50euros while a boxed one that must be shipped cost sometimes even less)i never spent one penny in cashshops(im a real fan of GW2 but not spent one penny in cashshop)i dont buy DLC only real expansion like dragonborn soon for pc skyrim.

    My gaming is still pure like 10-15years ago no DLC-CASHSHOPS-PREPURCHASES or other money grabbers by developers/publishers.

    If a game realy is good im willing to pay subscription every month or Buy 2 play but no cashshops.

    I play more and more solo games with free mods like skyrim or play games dishonered but no DLC.

    Less and less mmo's becouse of cashshops/goldsellers ext.

    Still plenty to play, also still play older games 3 different PC'S with many games install.

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,361Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Classicstar

     


    Originally posted by TheAncient
    By now it must be unlikely that any reader here doesn't know of the trainwreck that The WarZ has become. If you have been following what has happened recently then there are a number of issues that have for me have shown that MMO's (and IMHO The WarZ is not an MMO, but that's another discussion) and gaming in general have slid down a slippery slope.
    • Paying for early access. It's hard to think of any other consumer item whereby we'd pay for an unfinished product, never mind at ridiculous prices. You wouldn't buy a TV from even respectable manufactures like Panasonic or Samsung in the hope they might add sound or colour in the future, never mind a relatively unknown? How did we reach this stage?  
      • Cash Shops that go beyond buying fluff.
      We talk about pay to win, but The WarZ seems to have gone further. Pay to resurrect a toon? Pay to have a viable weapon just to survive? This on top of buying the game? We used to buy a game outright and play it for fun but now that isn't enough, someone has seen a way of not just reaching into your pocket and taking your money but grabbing your balls at the same time and squeezing. Where does it end?   When did we stop being fellow gamers?
    Total Biscuit made a very poignant comment in his Vlog following his First Impressions take on The WarZ. It was to the effect that we have stopped being fellow gamers that looked out for one another and have became fan boys. In my opinion, some of us have became fans boys that defend the indefensible, and that includes columnist and websites. What happened to fair reviews that took the consumer into account?   It's hard to find a thread now that if someone posts a somewhat controversial comment, that many seem to attack the the poster on a personal level and ignore the actual points being made irrespective if they are valid or not.   Maybe it's time we took a step back and looked at where our gaming is taking us.

     

    Believe me, becouse of all of this paying upfront or cashshops or other methods DLC ive even spent less on gaming then i did years ago.

    It have opposite effect they alinate me more and more trying to get my money.

    I buy boxed games in shop( I think its all ripoff digital prices they ask for a game 50euros while a boxed one that must be shipped cost sometimes even less)i never spent one penny in cashshops(im a real fan of GW2 but not spent one penny in cashshop)i dont buy DLC only real expansion like dragonborn soon for pc skyrim.

    My gaming is still pure like 10-15years ago no DLC-CASHSHOPS-PREPURCHASES or other money grabbers by developers/publishers.

    If a game realy is good im willing to pay subscription every month or Buy 2 play but no cashshops.

    I play more and more solo games with free mods like skyrim or play games dishonered but no DLC.

    Less and less mmo's becouse of cashshops/goldsellers ext.

    Still plenty to play, also still play older games 3 different PC'S with many games install.

     

    That's great your a pure gamer.... yet dlc shouldn't be part of your concern. It usually just adds to a game, why not pay for something that may give you more enjoyment out of a product? I understand launch day DLC maybe, but only buying major expansions sometimes tends to leave you out of major story add ons.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    Result of all of this development in gaming btw is im collecting old games that still dont need internet and can be played on lan have free patches and mods.

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • VassagoMaelVassagoMael Covington, LAPosts: 555Member

    I think if more people had been aware of the link between Big Rigs and War Z, fewer people would have bought the game. I didn't even learn about it until yesterday, and I've known about Big Rigs for years.

    I wish all the War Z people would have just played DayZ and boughtthe DayZ stand alone when it comes out shortly instead of funding a ripoff. I know several people though who that that Dean "Rocket" Hall was the guy developing War Z, which is pretty much what Hammer Point wanted, I'd imagine.

    Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
    Subscription = Actual content updates!

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Originally posted by Classicstar  

    Originally posted by TheAncient By now it must be unlikely that any reader here doesn't know of the trainwreck that The WarZ has become. If you have been following what has happened recently then there are a number of issues that have for me have shown that MMO's (and IMHO The WarZ is not an MMO, but that's another discussion) and gaming in general have slid down a slippery slope.
    • Paying for early access. It's hard to think of any other consumer item whereby we'd pay for an unfinished product, never mind at ridiculous prices. You wouldn't buy a TV from even respectable manufactures like Panasonic or Samsung in the hope they might add sound or colour in the future, never mind a relatively unknown? How did we reach this stage?  
      • Cash Shops that go beyond buying fluff.
      We talk about pay to win, but The WarZ seems to have gone further. Pay to resurrect a toon? Pay to have a viable weapon just to survive? This on top of buying the game? We used to buy a game outright and play it for fun but now that isn't enough, someone has seen a way of not just reaching into your pocket and taking your money but grabbing your balls at the same time and squeezing. Where does it end?   When did we stop being fellow gamers?
    Total Biscuit made a very poignant comment in his Vlog following his First Impressions take on The WarZ. It was to the effect that we have stopped being fellow gamers that looked out for one another and have became fan boys. In my opinion, some of us have became fans boys that defend the indefensible, and that includes columnist and websites. What happened to fair reviews that took the consumer into account?   It's hard to find a thread now that if someone posts a somewhat controversial comment, that many seem to attack the the poster on a personal level and ignore the actual points being made irrespective if they are valid or not.   Maybe it's time we took a step back and looked at where our gaming is taking us.
      Believe me, becouse of all of this paying upfront or cashshops or other methods DLC ive even spent less on gaming then i did years ago. It have opposite effect they alinate me more and more trying to get my money. I buy boxed games in shop( I think its all ripoff digital prices they ask for a game 50euros while a boxed one that must be shipped cost sometimes even less)i never spent one penny in cashshops(im a real fan of GW2 but not spent one penny in cashshop)i dont buy DLC only real expansion like dragonborn soon for pc skyrim. My gaming is still pure like 10-15years ago no DLC-CASHSHOPS-PREPURCHASES or other money grabbers by developers/publishers. If a game realy is good im willing to pay subscription every month or Buy 2 play but no cashshops. I play more and more solo games with free mods like skyrim or play games dishonered but no DLC. Less and less mmo's becouse of cashshops/goldsellers ext. Still plenty to play, also still play older games 3 different PC'S with many games install.  
    That's great your a pure gamer.... yet dlc shouldn't be part of your concern. It usually just adds to a game, why not pay for something that may give you more enjoyment out of a product? I understand launch day DLC maybe, but only buying major expansions sometimes tends to leave you out of major story add ons.

    In my view DLC is manytimes a ripoff and should be shipped with game already and ive played many games and never bought the DLC like with Dragon Age:Origin and enjoy the game bought the expansion and move along to next game.

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • ElgarLElgarL BristolPosts: 191Member
    Originally posted by VassagoMael

    I think if more people had been aware of the link between Big Rigs and War Z, fewer people would have bought the game. I didn't even learn about it until yesterday, and I've known about Big Rigs for years.

    I wish all the War Z people would have just played DayZ and boughtthe DayZ stand alone when it comes out shortly instead of funding a ripoff. I know several people though who that that Dean "Rocket" Hall was the guy developing War Z, which is pretty much what Hammer Point wanted, I'd imagine.

    I played DayZ. The interface and controls was a total abortion. The animations were terrible and the world interaction was no better than if some kid had designed it. The biggest isssue though was the interface.

    I really tried to like DayZ but it wasn't to be. We tried repeatedly over a few weeks and even setup our own server to try and like it.

    WarZ is what DayZ 'should' have been, without the cash grab rubbish.

    I played WarZ and LOVED it. but I got a refund on Steam due to the outright lies in it's advertising and not being able to do what they claimed you could. Even after all the uproar they STILL make those same claims on their own website (fixed on steam as planned for the future).

    image
    Creator of ELTank and Nostalgia

  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    If you don't like do not play! Simple as that. I can't see any huge problem in this game, most of the problems you desribe here are not true, resurrection for example.
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