The story telling was the best part for me, I enjoyed the Battle grounds too(Forgot what they were called).
I enjoyed the story and the path i could take, You could see a lot of work had gone into the story.
I will never go back to playing swtor because of the way they have implemented the FTP model.
I just wish someone could have made an epic Starwars MMO, Imagen what they could have done with all that money. A TERA style combat system in a seamless world with a hint of Darkfall pvp thrown in the mix. One day, One day...
SWtOR screwed a lot of things up, but the story-telling is pretty great for an MMO. It's very cinematic (assuming you sit back and watch things and not just spacebar through it), and fairly creative. I think the whole light-side dark-side conversations are weak, but aside from that, it's fun.
CREATIVE?
Both sides use the exact same design everything is a conspiracy theory and along the way you run errands while another npc wants you to double cross someone.Gets ridiculous and predictable very fast.
The only twist to the good side is the main group defects,commits treason.Is that really any different than a conspiracy theory from the Sith side?
A GOOD story should have had forces joining together with you to fight off an attack,but it is always npc versus you and your group if you have one.When you are chasing after the defects you are alone,the forces never come to your aid,instead "we will stay here and monitor ,your situation" ..../sigh really cheap and cheesey work if you ask me.
On the Sith side,most of the npc's sound like British militia [very unrelaistic].Also one minute they are telling you the Sith gain power and move up the ranks by knocking each other off.Then the next minute they are questioning your loyalty ...again /sigh .
Instead of good solid writing,it looks to me like the story was just thrown together,piece by piece as they created zones.That is NOT a story,a story is something that is scripted /written BEFORE the movie or BEFORE the game.Yes i know this happens a lot ,especially when you introduce expansion packs,but it shouldn't appear this sloppy on the initial release.Also the game moves along so linear,it is like you move from npc >npc,it is not a realistic story,where the characters remain a factor throughout the story.instead npc's are replaced with new ones and new thrown together dialogue.
Yes sometimes it is interesting to sit and watch a cutscene,i like cutscenes ,that is effort i applaud,but the story that is tied to them was not done well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The most difffcult part of telling the class story in TOR is the side quests. After the starting planet, most quests are just side quests or planet quest chains. You lose the class story when it is only 1 out of every 10 to 20 quests on a planet.
But just following the class stories, I have had a great time in TOR. Some good choices IMO at the end of chapter one. As far as your story goes. Causing or preventing the deaths of thousands. A personal choice to go all in evil or a choice of morality. But all the side quests just cause some to just tab tab to end game and ignore the class story all together.
I actually wish I could go back at level 50 and just run through the class story only. With all the mobs at level 50. Like a Hard Mode class quest option. Just to see the story unfold without all the distractions of side or world quests.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
The stories in SWTOR varied wildly in quality. Republic side Smuggler and it seemed pretty good, amusing and clever.
The Jedi path otoh sucked ballz, do the proper Light Side thing and the standard result at the end of a planet was along the line "Uhh, gee, thanks for the help. Things would have been better if you were evil. Now take your reward and go away and don't come back..."
Not to forget the constant, Meet Bad Guy > Let bad guy Go (light choice) > Meet Bad guy again after he has done something rotten > Let bad guy go again (damn that light side BS ) > Meet Bad Guy again and finally kick his ass. No wonder the planetary govt couldn't wait to see the Jedi leave to go plague some other planet.
GW2, for as bland as those storylines were, was many times better than the crap SWTOR was feeding us.
I won't pretend to be an expert in the storytelling in SW:TOR. I'll just say that spending one day playing Republic trooper in beta, I encountered such moronic storytelling that I said "if story is the key selling point of this game, forget it".
After the second or third time I slaughtered a bunch of my fellow troopers in the middle of a crowded military base (because they were bad people!) I just gave up. Embarrassingly stupid and meaningless storytelling without the faintest idea of consequences for actions.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw No offense, but your post made absolutely no sense. First off, Star Wars is a fantasy setting, it isn't real. To say the story doesn't make sense is only for you to say. In case your wondering, if you actually paid attention to the story on Ord Mantell, it does make sense.
You can't wave off soldiers killing other soldiers in the middle of a crowded military base, with nobody noticing or caring, just by saying "it's a fantasy setting, it isn't real".
Or did the unit's priest come and rez those guys after I killed them?
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Originally posted by BanquettoYou can't wave off soldiers killing other soldiers in the middle of a crowded military base, with nobody noticing or caring, just by saying "it's a fantasy setting, it isn't real".Or did the unit's priest come and rez those guys after I killed them?
Oh I get it now, you think MMO's should have the AI quality of Skyrim or The Witcher 2 for every NPC, gotcha. Well, when you find an MMO that doesn't have static story environments, please point me in the right direction.
What a worthless and pathetic attempt at a strawman that was.
So there's nothing in between completely ludicrous and unbelievable, and MMOs with "the AI quality of Skyrim or The Witcher 2"?
OK, I get it, you have absolutely zero interest in discussion, you just want to pick a fight with anyone who didn't like your precious game. So I won't tell you to go and re-read my post.
Instead, I'll ask any neutral observers to go and re-read my post: they will note that nowhere did I complain that SW:TOR had static story environments; nowhere did I complain that SW:TOR's AI quality was insufficient. I simply said that the core storyline, as I encountered it (early game, one single class) was moronic beyond belief. That, fantasy or no fantasy, the suspension of disbelief required to carry out a blaster rifle massacre in a military base, without anyone noticing or caring, was beyond me. And that if Bioware wanted to tout the quality of the storytelling as SW:TOR's unique selling point, they failed miserably.
AI or not, a story has to be internally consistent. Rewards should be related to what was done or not done.
You hunt down and recover a lost treasure, at least see a treaure and/or get some of it. Your character raids a shipyard and slices terminals for advanced ship designs, wouldn't it make more sense to get a ship upgrade or a craftable blueprint then a handfull of credits and a pat on the back?
From what I could see the Empire side storylines were much better, and had better flow than the Republic. Likely a hold over from 'Mass Effect' and 'Dragons Age' where being the bad guy was ever so much more interesting play than the altruistic hero.
They cannot animate cutscenes individually GTA4-style like you suggest, because it costs too much.
Here's a hint. GTA4 cost over $100m. It's campaign lasts probably 20 hours at most. SW:TOR has 2 faction storyline, each about 200 hours, so that's 400 hours, plus 8 storyline each about 20 hours, so that's an additional 160 hours. Total=560 hours of storyline.Now, presumably a game like GTA will have a higher 'cutscene density', but even so, there is HUGE difference between those two numbers.
Also, GTA's storytelling is a joke. Immature, boring, trying-to-be-funny, lame, graphically poor (even in GTA4 which is a current gen singleplayer game so should have pretty good graphics), full of unlikeable characters and bad animation.
Frankly, I'd much rather play SW:TOR.
As to the whole 'good and evil' thing, THAT'S STAR WARS. It's a morally black-and-white universe. Jedi are good, Sith are evil. You can't change that, it's part of the core mythology, and books that go outside of that are generally fringe stuff.
AI or not, a story has to be internally consistent. Rewards should be related to what was done or not done.
You hunt down and recover a lost treasure, at least see a treaure and/or get some of it. Your character raids a shipyard and slices terminals for advanced ship designs, wouldn't it make more sense to get a ship upgrade or a craftable blueprint then a handfull of credits and a pat on the back?
From what I could see the Empire side storylines were much better, and had better flow than the Republic. Likely a hold over from 'Mass Effect' and 'Dragons Age' where being the bad guy was ever so much more interesting play than the altruistic hero.
I agree that the writing for Empire was stronger. My thoughts lean towards the writers of the jedi storylines (especially) allowed themselves to get caught in "paladin" trap of the goody two shoes character that is very boring (oh geeze another super weapon). The jedi storylines were not that strong.
On the empire side, I agree you feel closer to the story. The small choices feel like they matter. There is also less of a defined archetype. This allows greater room to maneuver within the story. I am currently enjoying my agent storyline.
The storytelling was better than any other MMO I've ever played. Far as the goody tooshoe jedi is concerned you need to direct your anger towards George Lucas and the prequal movies. Bioware is only following the guidelines that have already been established.
The story was better than any other MMO, that much is obvious. But because it's an MMO you can't have the kind of freedom you have in single player RPGs, you can't play major characters or effect the whole game world.
They were supposed to have more branching during things like flashpoints, where you had different paths depending on what classes you bring. But that seems to have got scrapped early on.
Also in the beta you could loose companions and dark/light made a much bigger difference. But people cried endlessly when they perminently lost companions (even after warnings, which you did get during the dialog), or made the wrong choices. So they caved in to whiners and changed it...
It's because SWTOR's stories are interactive, which makes them interesting. In other MMOs you're simply confronted with generic monologueseveryone skips. Is SWTOR "The Pillars of the Earth" of MMOs? Probably not, but its story-telling is still astronomically better than other MMOs.
Comments
The story telling was the best part for me, I enjoyed the Battle grounds too(Forgot what they were called).
I enjoyed the story and the path i could take, You could see a lot of work had gone into the story.
I will never go back to playing swtor because of the way they have implemented the FTP model.
I just wish someone could have made an epic Starwars MMO, Imagen what they could have done with all that money. A TERA style combat system in a seamless world with a hint of Darkfall pvp thrown in the mix. One day, One day...
CREATIVE?
Both sides use the exact same design everything is a conspiracy theory and along the way you run errands while another npc wants you to double cross someone.Gets ridiculous and predictable very fast.
The only twist to the good side is the main group defects,commits treason.Is that really any different than a conspiracy theory from the Sith side?
A GOOD story should have had forces joining together with you to fight off an attack,but it is always npc versus you and your group if you have one.When you are chasing after the defects you are alone,the forces never come to your aid,instead "we will stay here and monitor ,your situation" ..../sigh really cheap and cheesey work if you ask me.
On the Sith side,most of the npc's sound like British militia [very unrelaistic].Also one minute they are telling you the Sith gain power and move up the ranks by knocking each other off.Then the next minute they are questioning your loyalty ...again /sigh .
Instead of good solid writing,it looks to me like the story was just thrown together,piece by piece as they created zones.That is NOT a story,a story is something that is scripted /written BEFORE the movie or BEFORE the game.Yes i know this happens a lot ,especially when you introduce expansion packs,but it shouldn't appear this sloppy on the initial release.Also the game moves along so linear,it is like you move from npc >npc,it is not a realistic story,where the characters remain a factor throughout the story.instead npc's are replaced with new ones and new thrown together dialogue.
Yes sometimes it is interesting to sit and watch a cutscene,i like cutscenes ,that is effort i applaud,but the story that is tied to them was not done well.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The most difffcult part of telling the class story in TOR is the side quests. After the starting planet, most quests are just side quests or planet quest chains. You lose the class story when it is only 1 out of every 10 to 20 quests on a planet.
But just following the class stories, I have had a great time in TOR. Some good choices IMO at the end of chapter one. As far as your story goes. Causing or preventing the deaths of thousands. A personal choice to go all in evil or a choice of morality. But all the side quests just cause some to just tab tab to end game and ignore the class story all together.
I actually wish I could go back at level 50 and just run through the class story only. With all the mobs at level 50. Like a Hard Mode class quest option. Just to see the story unfold without all the distractions of side or world quests.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
The stories in SWTOR varied wildly in quality. Republic side Smuggler and it seemed pretty good, amusing and clever.
The Jedi path otoh sucked ballz, do the proper Light Side thing and the standard result at the end of a planet was along the line "Uhh, gee, thanks for the help. Things would have been better if you were evil. Now take your reward and go away and don't come back..."
Not to forget the constant, Meet Bad Guy > Let bad guy Go (light choice) > Meet Bad guy again after he has done something rotten > Let bad guy go again (damn that light side BS ) > Meet Bad Guy again and finally kick his ass. No wonder the planetary govt couldn't wait to see the Jedi leave to go plague some other planet.
GW2, for as bland as those storylines were, was many times better than the crap SWTOR was feeding us.
I won't pretend to be an expert in the storytelling in SW:TOR. I'll just say that spending one day playing Republic trooper in beta, I encountered such moronic storytelling that I said "if story is the key selling point of this game, forget it".
After the second or third time I slaughtered a bunch of my fellow troopers in the middle of a crowded military base (because they were bad people!) I just gave up. Embarrassingly stupid and meaningless storytelling without the faintest idea of consequences for actions.
You can't wave off soldiers killing other soldiers in the middle of a crowded military base, with nobody noticing or caring, just by saying "it's a fantasy setting, it isn't real".
Or did the unit's priest come and rez those guys after I killed them?
What a worthless and pathetic attempt at a strawman that was.
So there's nothing in between completely ludicrous and unbelievable, and MMOs with "the AI quality of Skyrim or The Witcher 2"?
OK, I get it, you have absolutely zero interest in discussion, you just want to pick a fight with anyone who didn't like your precious game. So I won't tell you to go and re-read my post.
Instead, I'll ask any neutral observers to go and re-read my post: they will note that nowhere did I complain that SW:TOR had static story environments; nowhere did I complain that SW:TOR's AI quality was insufficient. I simply said that the core storyline, as I encountered it (early game, one single class) was moronic beyond belief. That, fantasy or no fantasy, the suspension of disbelief required to carry out a blaster rifle massacre in a military base, without anyone noticing or caring, was beyond me. And that if Bioware wanted to tout the quality of the storytelling as SW:TOR's unique selling point, they failed miserably.
AI or not, a story has to be internally consistent. Rewards should be related to what was done or not done.
You hunt down and recover a lost treasure, at least see a treaure and/or get some of it. Your character raids a shipyard and slices terminals for advanced ship designs, wouldn't it make more sense to get a ship upgrade or a craftable blueprint then a handfull of credits and a pat on the back?
From what I could see the Empire side storylines were much better, and had better flow than the Republic. Likely a hold over from 'Mass Effect' and 'Dragons Age' where being the bad guy was ever so much more interesting play than the altruistic hero.
They cannot animate cutscenes individually GTA4-style like you suggest, because it costs too much.
Here's a hint. GTA4 cost over $100m. It's campaign lasts probably 20 hours at most. SW:TOR has 2 faction storyline, each about 200 hours, so that's 400 hours, plus 8 storyline each about 20 hours, so that's an additional 160 hours. Total=560 hours of storyline.Now, presumably a game like GTA will have a higher 'cutscene density', but even so, there is HUGE difference between those two numbers.
Also, GTA's storytelling is a joke. Immature, boring, trying-to-be-funny, lame, graphically poor (even in GTA4 which is a current gen singleplayer game so should have pretty good graphics), full of unlikeable characters and bad animation.
Frankly, I'd much rather play SW:TOR.
As to the whole 'good and evil' thing, THAT'S STAR WARS. It's a morally black-and-white universe. Jedi are good, Sith are evil. You can't change that, it's part of the core mythology, and books that go outside of that are generally fringe stuff.
I agree that the writing for Empire was stronger. My thoughts lean towards the writers of the jedi storylines (especially) allowed themselves to get caught in "paladin" trap of the goody two shoes character that is very boring (oh geeze another super weapon). The jedi storylines were not that strong.
On the empire side, I agree you feel closer to the story. The small choices feel like they matter. There is also less of a defined archetype. This allows greater room to maneuver within the story. I am currently enjoying my agent storyline.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
The story was better than any other MMO, that much is obvious. But because it's an MMO you can't have the kind of freedom you have in single player RPGs, you can't play major characters or effect the whole game world.
They were supposed to have more branching during things like flashpoints, where you had different paths depending on what classes you bring. But that seems to have got scrapped early on.
Also in the beta you could loose companions and dark/light made a much bigger difference. But people cried endlessly when they perminently lost companions (even after warnings, which you did get during the dialog), or made the wrong choices. So they caved in to whiners and changed it...
It is really hard to do a 'grey' story in Star Wars when most people's thoughts about Star Wars is 'Darth Vadar vs Luke Skywalker'.
This is why KOTOR2 is NOT a good SW game. It is an awesome story-driven game but it wasn't SW.
SWTOR has an awesome story / char / lore (although lore is a given since this is SW) that feels Star Wars(y).
Whether you enjoy SW stories or not is another issue.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.