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The end of roleplaying games

I guess I am just a dying breed, but I thought roleplaying games were about..idk...roleplaying. The games I love and remember most were immersive, they were full of choice, player driven worlds and fear of death. Ha, actual fear of death is pretty much nonexistant in games now a days. I've searched long and wide looking for a world...not just a game. A world where I can be that blacksmith...I can be a fisherman or a local bard, but I've found nothing. Ultima Online seems to be similar, but even that has been watered down over the years. Many, hoped games like darkfall would take it's place, but all I see is a fixation on pvp and large siege warfare. I've considered going over to single players again..just getting involved in a game such as skyrim, but they feel so empty withouth others to experience it with. I had great fun with guild wars 2 recently, but not the same feeling. I've played maybe one or two games once before that actually felt..alive. It was incredibly fun and something I'd give  up all my others games to have again. Many of the games that try this method die in despair after a few years..seems not much of a market for it. It seems I am a dying breed, and I guess it's time to face that.
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Comments

  • TheMagickDollTheMagickDoll Indianapolis, INPosts: 29Member
    You are not a dying breed, just a lot more type of people playing games. Tons of people still roleplay, but with so many games out there, like every type of gamer, everyone tends to be far more spread out then they were before.  But do not dispair, there are many many people who still roleplay and will even those that do not regularly, will join in if one constantly be in character yourself. Do not spell doom and gloom, its not something that is going to die out.  Its far too close to our human nature to pretend and roleplay.
  • MoutonDocileMoutonDocile deux-montagnes, QCPosts: 17Member

    The thing with the MMORPGs we have right now is that you can't really roleplay in most of them. 

     

    You can pretend that you're some great blacksmith or whatever, but there is no way to make that actually happen in the game. The games are just too restrictive. They want you to go through the content and that's about it.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    There are a few MMOs that come closer than others like Vanguard but you're right in that most of then are too restrictive. The pendulum swings however and the poor performance of canned MMOs should be brining about something a little deeper in the emmersion department.

    Why? It's simple. I think companies have figured out that if they want to retain customers in MMORPGs then there needs to be some sort of investment into their avatars. I sure hope so :)
  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    I always think it's cute to run into roleplayers and spy a little on what they do. You are rare or you wouldn't be as interesting to find. Keep it up I say.

     

    I remember once seeing a LARP video online and something came to me...while reading all the nasty comments made... these are just actors with no natural talent and no training who enjoy it. Does anyone say what they say to LARPers that they would to someone like Jack Nicholson or Robert Deniro, no, they would not. So that's all it took for acceptance.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    MMORPGs are really just big lobbies for action adventure games with some skill progression nowadays
  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,942Member Uncommon
    No, Your are not a dying breed......Developers decided on there own to screw it up, players are not asking for it.  I'm sure some like the crap we had been handed, but we are getting a big " 0 " from developers for what we like !
  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    There are a few MMOs that come closer than others like Vanguard but you're right in that most of then are too restrictive. The pendulum swings however and the poor performance of canned MMOs should be brining about something a little deeper in the emmersion department.

    Why? It's simple. I think companies have figured out that if they want to retain customers in MMORPGs then there needs to be some sort of investment into their avatars. I sure hope so :)

    1000% AGREE WITH THIS.

    If ANY player can level cap in a week or less. If ANY player can max crafting in a week or less. IMHO the game is to easy and broken. No investment=no love for my character.

    I only make male toons. Why? Because it makes me feel like a real Hero. In every game I played a female character I never stuck with it. It took me a year or so to realize this.

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

  • AnslemAnslem Ft. Lauderdale, FLPosts: 215Member
    Originally posted by HeroEvermore
     
    Originally posted by Aelious
    There are a few MMOs that come closer than others like Vanguard but you're right in that most of then are too restrictive. The pendulum swings however and the poor performance of canned MMOs should be brining about something a little deeper in the emmersion department.

    Why? It's simple. I think companies have figured out that if they want to retain customers in MMORPGs then there needs to be some sort of investment into their avatars. I sure hope so :)

    1000% AGREE WITH THIS.

    If ANY player can level cap in a week or less. If ANY player can max crafting in a week or less. IMHO the game is to easy and broken. No investment=no love for my character.

    I only make male toons. Why? Because it makes me feel like a real Hero. In every game I played a female character I never stuck with it. It took me a year or so to realize this.

    ^ This is curious.  Did you ever play AD&D? I'd be interested in viewing your character sheet.

    I agree that the ease with which you can reach max level is crazy now.  Maybe it's to cater to casual gamers who can't afford a time sink?  

    Roleplayers are a different class of gamers.  I have not played even a quarter of every MMO out there, but I did see a lot more RP type gamers in Ultima Online than any other world.  I'd attribute that to the freedom of choice in game, for sure. 

    Played: Ultima Online - DaoC - WoW -

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Another rant of "end of this", "end of that" ...

    Yeah ... so? I was playing AD&D with college friends before ... it was fun .. but so are modern day video games. Just different.

    You can still play PnP D&D, you know. Personally, i don't want to play a blacksmith, or a carpenter. If i want to carve wood for a job, i do it for real.

     

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    fear of death is the feeling you feel when your freighter with last week's mining load jumps into the refinery system and at the same time the intel channel starts to blink.

     

     

    image

  • SilokSilok Mascouche, QCPosts: 732Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Another rant of "end of this", "end of that" ...

    Yeah ... so? I was playing AD&D with college friends before ... it was fun .. but so are modern day video games. Just different.

    You can still play PnP D&D, you know. Personally, i don't want to play a blacksmith, or a carpenter. If i want to carve wood for a job, i do it for real.

     

    If you dont like this kind of thread why do you answer them? This is a forum you know and this topics is good as any.

    To the op, most modern mmo are exactly that mmo and not mmorpg. Now you got fast action mmo, with mindless gameplay. That what people want so that what the devs give. You want to play real rpg games well play single player game and the old ones like i do.

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member
    Originally posted by Nunez1212
    I guess I am just a dying breed, but I thought roleplaying games were about..idk...roleplaying. The games I love and remember most were immersive, they were full of choice, player driven worlds and fear of death. Ha, actual fear of death is pretty much nonexistant in games now a days. I've searched long and wide looking for a world...not just a game. A world where I can be that blacksmith...I can be a fisherman or a local bard, but I've found nothing. Ultima Online seems to be similar, but even that has been watered down over the years. Many, hoped games like darkfall would take it's place, but all I see is a fixation on pvp and large siege warfare. I've considered going over to single players again..just getting involved in a game such as skyrim, but they feel so empty withouth others to experience it with. I had great fun with guild wars 2 recently, but not the same feeling. I've played maybe one or two games once before that actually felt..alive. It was incredibly fun and something I'd give  up all my others games to have again. Many of the games that try this method die in despair after a few years..seems not much of a market for it. It seems I am a dying breed, and I guess it's time to face that.

    Plenty of games around for your taste - but you have to avoid the big AAA releases from the well-known publishers. Look at the small indie games and you can find what you are looking for.

    Of course with those games you don't get polish and graphics and marketing hype.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon
    Baldurs Gate Enhanched is worth checking out.
  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Silok
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Another rant of "end of this", "end of that" ...

    Yeah ... so? I was playing AD&D with college friends before ... it was fun .. but so are modern day video games. Just different.

    You can still play PnP D&D, you know. Personally, i don't want to play a blacksmith, or a carpenter. If i want to carve wood for a job, i do it for real.

     

    If you dont like this kind of thread why do you answer them? This is a forum you know and this topics is good as any.

    To the op, most modern mmo are exactly that mmo and not mmorpg. Now you got fast action mmo, with mindless gameplay. That what people want so that what the devs give. You want to play real rpg games well play single player game and the old ones like i do.

    let's turn this around.

    If you dont like this kind of answer why do you answer? ^^

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Silok
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Another rant of "end of this", "end of that" ...

    Yeah ... so? I was playing AD&D with college friends before ... it was fun .. but so are modern day video games. Just different.

    You can still play PnP D&D, you know. Personally, i don't want to play a blacksmith, or a carpenter. If i want to carve wood for a job, i do it for real.

     

    If you dont like this kind of thread why do you answer them? This is a forum you know and this topics is good as any.

    To the op, most modern mmo are exactly that mmo and not mmorpg. Now you got fast action mmo, with mindless gameplay. That what people want so that what the devs give. You want to play real rpg games well play single player game and the old ones like i do.

    let's turn this around.

    If you dont like this kind of answer why do you answer? ^^

    Thane.. the more you speak, the less sense you make.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • I used to play a san andreas RP server with my brother a few years back...it was so ridiculously fun. You could become a police officer and stop other players, you could become a new anchor and broadcast the gang fights as they occurred, you could make guns and sell them to other gangs or start a warfare that police in helicopters needed to come and try to fight down. Everything was the players choices...it was absolutely amazing.

     

    People have such a misconception that a role playing game is a game with swords, spells and mideival armor. It's not though, its a game where you play the role of a character...any many games are just that, but they DO NOT feel immersive. Why care about my character in gw2 if I can max level in no time and anyone on earth could do it. WAAAY to easy...no achievment there besides that you either have a lot of time on your hands or are good at time management.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chelan

    Thane.. the more you speak, the less sense you make.

    what took you so long, i never was a fan of you :)

     

    and actually i am typing ^^

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • SupportPlayerMMSupportPlayerMM Lufkin, TXPosts: 310Member

    Companies are scared to give a RP server ruleset and enforce it. I for instance would without any problem give disclaimers saying (This is a roleplaying server, upon entering you are in character, if you wish to go OOC use private chat or an OOC channel which you can turn on in settings. Any disruption of said ruleset to troll and act inappropriately towards a community within our own will not be tolerated and will result an a Ban of your account.) 

     

    Then again I'm tired of people hand holding other players to encourage them to act right. Act right or waste your money, do a charge back and your credit card will be black listed from ever working. I don't care about those people I'd be completely about the community who makes the game worth others time. 

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

         OP.. you are not a dying breed.. We are just a small niche community that gets no respect from the big companies that chase the almighty dollar to no end..  I have pleaded and beg with companies to do ONE thing to allow us RPGers the freedom to play the way we are accustomed to playing..

         GIVE US OUR OWN  SERVER.. DAMMMIT..  Yes, I know that companies like Blizzard label select servers are RPG, but they are no different then any other server.. What I want with a special RPG server is:

    • Must have limited chat ability - no more global channels
    • Mob strength must be redefined for open world encounters.. This means having select areas of the zone that are home to elite (group demanding) mob..
    • No more instancing..  Dungeons like WoW's "Deadmines" will be open world zone in.. ALL mobs will be elite and boss mobs will be super elite demanding groups of 10 and more to kill.. ALL mobs in these zone in dungeons will respawn just like the normal open world zones..
    • Raid zones like Molten Core will be open world zone ins.. NO LIMIT on how many can enter and fight the mobs..
    • There must be a harsher dealth penalty..
    • PvP is completely disabled..  This means that opposing factions can group with each other once again to defete the common enemy..   However, Human's will still be KOS in Ogrrimmar.. But give opposing factions the ability to earn faction to reverse that KOS status..
    None of these changes are impossible, and would require minimal coding..   If I could, I would highly suggest that the game allow flexible levelling just like GW2.. So if older characters want to go play in lower level content with guildies and friends, they can do so easily.. I would LOVE to experience the fun of having 40+ people again trying to take down the big bad dragons in WoW again..
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    MMORPGs hasnt been about RPG for years. Most people are simply not into it.
  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MoutonDocile

    The thing with the MMORPGs we have right now is that you can't really roleplay in most of them. 

     

    You can pretend that you're some great blacksmith or whatever, but there is no way to make that actually happen in the game. The games are just too restrictive. They want you to go through the content and that's about it.

    Yeah, nicely summed up.  There's no facility, point or incentive to roleplay in MMORPGs, and if you're the only person in 1,000 to even try, it's not even fun.

  • SilokSilok Mascouche, QCPosts: 732Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Silok
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Another rant of "end of this", "end of that" ...

    Yeah ... so? I was playing AD&D with college friends before ... it was fun .. but so are modern day video games. Just different.

    You can still play PnP D&D, you know. Personally, i don't want to play a blacksmith, or a carpenter. If i want to carve wood for a job, i do it for real.

     

    If you dont like this kind of thread why do you answer them? This is a forum you know and this topics is good as any.

    To the op, most modern mmo are exactly that mmo and not mmorpg. Now you got fast action mmo, with mindless gameplay. That what people want so that what the devs give. You want to play real rpg games well play single player game and the old ones like i do.

    let's turn this around.

    If you dont like this kind of answer why do you answer? ^^

    I answer the op at least.. unlike you who just trying to be smart.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,895Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MoutonDocile

    The thing with the MMORPGs we have right now is that you can't really roleplay in most of them. 

    You can pretend that you're some great blacksmith or whatever, but there is no way to make that actually happen in the game. The games are just too restrictive. They want you to go through the content and that's about it.

     

    For me, roleplay has been reduced to interactions with friends who welcome (and understand) the activity.  Even something as simple as chatting "in character" is foreign to most players.  It's a shame because it adds a whole other dimension to gameplay.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon

    City of Heroes was the last, great roleplaying MMORPG I played, and I played it until it got snatched out from under me.

    I suspect the reason CoH was a great place for roleplayers can be summed up in a few things it did well:

    1)  Costumes and props

    Roleplayers need these things to make their characters unique.  CoH had two things going for it that helped roleplay: unrestricted avatar costume parts, and a wide variety of costume options.  If you wanted armor, you could have armor, regardless of class.  If you wanted to be orange, you could be orange.  The costume creator allowed players to make the characters fit the backstory and theme they have in mind for them.  It also allowed them to create uniforms, disguises, alterations and so on to reflect the charater's journey.

    2)  Emotes

    This game had a very robust emote system, second only to SWG.  It allowed you to walk, run, use jet packs, spraypaint, dig a ditch, dance, and so many other things.  Roleplayers appreciate systems that can make their characters move the way they need them to move, and do the things they need them to do.

    3)  Settings

    The base editor allowed roleplayers to create as many settings or playsets as they needed to in order to get their stories told.  I've seen the base editor create spaceships, naval vessels, apartment complexes, clubs, dungeons, libraries, arenas, crypts and so much more!  This, plus the variety of settings that were available in the world (gardens, clubs, universities, factories, etc.), provided the roleplaying community with great settings in which to act.

    4)  Mission Architect

    This is last on my list, because the above three were so much more important.  But the AE system allowed players to create immersive storylines when text-based tools couldn't suffice.  I've seen players recreate their characters in AE to tell stories inside the missions when they were not "available" in an IC way to explain.

    All of these reasons made CoH the best roleplaying game I've had for the last several years.  Sadly, it's no longer with us, and I don't see anything that does the above four as well as CoH did.  Which, to me, is a shame.  It really doesn't take much to foster roleplay in the games.

    All in all, roleplayers are some of the easiest players to satisfy, from a design standpoint.  They don't need fast action combat, endgame content, cutscenes, loot, balance, or anything else like that.  All they need are the abilities to create the costumes they want, the props they want, to express what they want to do with emotes, and the ability to use and design sets.  Give them those things, and they'll entertain themselves.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • -Zeno--Zeno- Zion, TNPosts: 1,298Member Common
    That happened years ago with EQ and the clones that came after.

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

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