I believe if thers such a high demand for soloing, Developers should be making more single player rpg's for them. Then maybe they would play those more often and not bother with mmorpg's. Plus nowadays since consoles went online, developers have the meens to add more content to single player games, just like mmo's developers have. Thus expanding the longtevity of those games.
To me MMORPG's should be made for grouping and community building, and Single player RPG's made for ppl that want to solo.
I have no clue why developers are trying to bend and twist the 2 together, I really miss my ffxi days before abbysea
Soloing in MMO's should just be strickly for farming and gathering crafting meterials, and fishing, everything else should have the playerbase work together as a team.
1. Soloer's and groupers are not two distinct bodies. Yes a minority from each group will be extremists, the majority will do both activities, so the game needs to have ways to support both.
2. You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other. The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people. So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity. If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
2. You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other. The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people. So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity. If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.
Yeah, because the real world also has elves, magic and dragons, so it makes sense that everything should be the same..
MMORPG´s should have plenty of both styles. Nuff said
Games Played: Anarchy Online,Star Wars Galaxies,WOW,Eve,Darkfall,Vanguard, Fallen Earth,SWTOR,GW2,Tera,ESO,Wildstar, Black Desert, Archeage & Albion Online Now playing: Conan Exiles & Rocket League Games looking forward to: Diablo 4! & Star Citizen?
I personally enjoy the Guild Wars 2 way of grouping. I all the mmos I have played, I have rarely if ever joined a tight knit group, guild, party, etc. I have yet to join a Guild in gw2. However, I find myself often randomly grouping up with people in the game world for Dynamic Events, which work well in sync with the lack of Holy Trinity. Often times I will ask for help in Group Events if I can't do them myself.
The one problem however, is the lack of real talking. We communicate, but it is with our abilities and actions in gw2. If the content of group events was a little more complicated, I think people will communicate more, even if it is to whine.
However, the simple fact of knowing these complete strangers have my back even if I don't talk with them is comforting and I enjoy the game a lot. The ability to solo by yourself yet just naturally (almost weirdly) flow into a group (zerg as trolls will call it) is the best way I have seen an MMO do it so far, and I hope many similair systems will go in place to help facilitate that even more.
2. You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other. The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people. So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity. If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.
Yeah, because the real world also has elves, magic and dragons, so it makes sense that everything should be the same..
No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules. The point still stands. You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world.
You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species. You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules. The point still stands. You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world.
You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species. You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone.
In a real world, if people were going out to fight massive rats, dire wolves, packs of orcs, or entering a dark, scary dungeon populated with the reanimated dead, unless they're insane they wouldn't be thinking they're badass enough to go it alone. See, in a real world, you get one shot, you don't respawn after death you.. uhh.. die. So if you're talking realism and worldly rules then you're also talking about wanting to save your own skin, and the best way to do that is through overwhelming numbers. There's a reason Rambo doesn't exist in the real world and we send out armies instead of lone wolves.
No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules. The point still stands. You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world.
You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species. You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone.
In a real world, if people were going out to fight massive rats, dire wolves, packs of orcs, or entering a dark, scary dungeon populated with the reanimated dead, unless they're insane they wouldn't be thinking they're badass enough to go it alone. See, in a real world, you get one shot, you don't respawn after death you.. uhh.. die. So if you're talking realism and worldly rules then you're also talking about wanting to save your own skin, and the best way to do that is through overwhelming numbers. There's a reason Rambo doesn't exist in the real world and we send out armies instead of lone wolves.
And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone. Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.
There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone. Many people work alone.
I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups. I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed.
Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on. Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping. If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world.
The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.
No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.
There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".
The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now.
Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.
The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.
Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.
The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.
Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.
Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.
The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.
No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.
There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".
The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now.
Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.
The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.
Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.
The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.
Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.
Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.
Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.
Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.
And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone. Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.
There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone. Many people work alone.
I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups. I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed.
Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on. Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping. If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world.
And here I go back again to the fact that we're talking about a game world, not the real world. In the real world a hunter would shoot an arrow or a bullet into a wolf and it would crumple under the pain, making it a relatively simple target. In a game that wolf loses 5 hitpoints then turns and starts ripping you a new one.
The world is inhabited by communities if you hadn't noticed. Before our population grew to massive levels we still came together for safety, security and companionship. I don't care if Bob the Hunter decided to become a loner and go for a wander in the great outdoors, people naturally look to each other for protection, why do you think villages and cities evolved in the first place?
I have no problem with someone trying to deal with the dangers alone, I'm not advocating the complete removal of soloing from MMO's, but it should be a difficult process. Community first, self last, that's how it should be. Lone hunters are very cautious, they ensure their scent isn't noticed, hide for a time, prepare ambushes, attack only when they're certain of a kill, pick off the weak from a herd.. And that's how it should be, soloing should be hard and dangerous, not a straight run from start to end without needing another person.
And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone. Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.
There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone. Many people work alone.
I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups. I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed.
Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on. Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping. If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world.
And here I go back again to the fact that we're talking about a game world, not the real world. In the real world a hunter would shoot an arrow or a bullet into a wolf and it would crumple under the pain, making it a relatively simple target. In a game that wolf loses 5 hitpoints then turns and starts ripping you a new one.
The world is inhabited by communities if you hadn't noticed. Before our population grew to massive levels we still came together for safety, security and companionship. I don't care if Bob the Hunter decided to become a loner and go for a wander in the great outdoors, people naturally look to each other for protection, why do you think villages and cities evolved in the first place?
I have no problem with someone trying to deal with the dangers alone, I'm not advocating the complete removal of soloing from MMO's, but it should be a difficult process. Community first, self last, that's how it should be. Lone hunters are very cautious, they ensure their scent isn't noticed, hide for a time, prepare ambushes, attack only when they're certain of a kill, pick off the weak from a herd.. And that's how it should be, soloing should be hard and dangerous, not a straight run from start to end without needing another person.
Game world or not, it is still a virtual world. That is the key, a VIRTUAL WORLD. This means that the people in the world have all sorts of choices.
I never stated it shouldn't be difficult, I never stated it shouldn't be harder. I have maintained that it should be possible. That eliminating it completely breaks the rules on what a world is, therefore it is not a virtual world anymore.
You may not have been advocating the complete removal. But there are many that are stating exactly that and still wanting a virtual world. To them I say you cannot have a virtual world without it.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.
No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.
There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".
The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now.
Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.
The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.
Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.
The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.
Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.
Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.
Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.
Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.
The devs are well aware of the predominance of solo gameplay through their own internal studies, and the gameplaying public has been ever since the "Alone Together" study was released. The very nature of online gaming draws a high percentage of introverts, who naturally prefer solo gameplay. The devs have a hard time understanding (and therefore delivering content for) them because the devs are more predisposed towards extraversion, therefore they experience a natural disconnect with that personality type.
The second M in MMORPG stands for multiple, meaning many people playing at one time. That means all playstyles, not just raiding, otherwise they'd be called MRORPG's. I can understand how after being catered to hand and foot by the devs over the years, the raiders would think that to be so, but that is not the case.
As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.
As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.
You have to remember raids are purely time sinks, the incentive is awesome gear. Let's say 40 people, 5 of each class, 3 drops per raid mob, randomized between different classes. Just how many times do you have to run that raid to guarantee you get all your drops?
How would you create a way for soloers to progress their character as far as the raiders, while keeping the amount of time required so high? Solo, by its very nature, is going to be a set path to completion, thus just the one run through of some solo instance is generally enough. If not, then how many times are you going to be happy repeating the same instance on your own until you get what you need? 20 times? 50? 100? If a game asks me to repeat the same instance on my own that many times then I'm going to be saying goodbye to the game.
The thing with raiding is it brings people together, it's not just about the instance it's about the people around you, and though soloers don't seem to realise, that makes a WORLD of difference. I could run the same dungeon in Oblviion a couple of times, but any more and I've had enough. A raid is different every time purely because of human error, compensating for someone elses mistakes, altering tactics on the fly as someone unexpectedly dies, etc. A solo instance lacks that danger because it has to be tailored to one person, so repeating that same instance will quickly become very boring and repetitive.
The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.
No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.
There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".
The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now.
Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.
The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.
Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.
The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.
Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.
Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.
Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.
Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.
The devs are well aware of the predominance of solo gameplay through their own internal studies, and the gameplaying public has been ever since the "Alone Together" study was released. The very nature of online gaming draws a high percentage of introverts, who naturally prefer solo gameplay. The devs have a hard time understanding (and therefore delivering content for) them because the devs are more predisposed towards extraversion, therefore they experience a natural disconnect with that personality type.
The second M in MMORPG stands for multiple, meaning many people playing at one time. That means all playstyles, not just raiding, otherwise they'd be called MRORPG's. I can understand how after being catered to hand and foot by the devs over the years, the raiders would think that to be so, but that is not the case.
As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.
I asked if you had any actual sources to back up that claim, you still have not provided any. I am an introvert myself and I still enjoy multiplayer gameplay over soloing, so just because someone is an introvert does not automatically mean that they prefer soloing over everything else in a MMORPG. You do not speak for every introverted individual out there so dont use introverted people as an argument.
The second M in MMORPG has and always will stand for multiplayer, you can look it up if you want. There is also more forms of multiplayer gameplay than raiding, you have grouping, pvp, trading etc, the thing that they all have in common is that they all require other players to even exist while soloing does not. It is not a matter of being catered to, its a matter of multiplayer gameplay in a multiplayer game.
Seperation is not a logical sollution because developers have to make seperate changes to a seperate version of the original game just for a few soloers on their own seperated server. Ive said it before and I will say it again, go to the forums of a single player game and ask them to add online features, crafting and a auction house, basically the same way diablo 3 is. It requires far less resources because those features only has to be added once and the rest of the game is already designed for your type of gameplay.
The fact that devs still haven't designed an MMO for soloers is mind boggling. They're completely ignoring what is the largest segment of their potential customer base on a continual basis.
No solo MMO's, no solo servers within existing MMO's, zero useful endgame gear for solo players in existing MMO's, superior performance for groupers vs soloable mobs in existing MMO's, solo players completely or partially locked out of end game content in existing MMO's.
There's millions of potential customers out there who would play MMO's, but the devs have basically said "we don't want your business".
The real irony for the group/raid oriented players who constantly complain on boards like this about how their game has been dumbed down, is if they'd gotten behind the idea of seperate solo MMO's or servers long ago, they would have had a much more enjoyable experience playing MMO's now, because the games or servers they play on would have been tailored more specifically towards their needs, instead of the diversified mush they're being fed now.
Might just be that the solo-only crowd is not big enough to warrant the massive funding needed to create a AAA MMO just for them. Could also be that MMO's are multiplayer games and soloing has nothing to do with multiplayer gameplay whatsoever. It is true that a lot of people who play MMO's spend a lot of that time soloing, but the amount of people who wants to do nothing else but soloing is most likely very small.
The thing I find the most mindboggling is that people who are looking for the perfect singleplayer game experience are looking for it in a genre based on multiplayer instead of going to the forums of the next big singleplayer game in the making and discuss such things over there.
Different servers is not a feasable sollution. Creating a AAA MMO requires an insane amount funds, creating both a AAA MMO and a AAA singleplayer game is just not a logical request. Resources are not infinite, the most probable thing to happen is a low quality game experience for everyone.
The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.
Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.
Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.
Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.
Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.
The devs are well aware of the predominance of solo gameplay through their own internal studies, and the gameplaying public has been ever since the "Alone Together" study was released. The very nature of online gaming draws a high percentage of introverts, who naturally prefer solo gameplay. The devs have a hard time understanding (and therefore delivering content for) them because the devs are more predisposed towards extraversion, therefore they experience a natural disconnect with that personality type.
The second M in MMORPG stands for multiple, meaning many people playing at one time. That means all playstyles, not just raiding, otherwise they'd be called MRORPG's. I can understand how after being catered to hand and foot by the devs over the years, the raiders would think that to be so, but that is not the case.
As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.
I asked if you had any actual sources to back up that claim, you still have not provided any. I am an introvert myself and I still enjoy multiplayer gameplay over soloing, so just because someone is an introvert does not automatically mean that they prefer soloing over everything else in a MMORPG. You do not speak for every introverted individual out there so dont use introverted people as an argument.
The second M in MMORPG has and always will stand for multiplayer, you can look it up if you want. There is also more forms of multiplayer gameplay than raiding, you have grouping, pvp, trading etc, the thing that they all have in common is that they all require other players to even exist while soloing does not. It is not a matter of being catered to, its a matter of multiplayer gameplay in a multiplayer game.
Seperation is not a logical sollution because developers have to make seperate changes to a seperate version of the original game just for a few soloers on their own seperated server. Ive said it before and I will say it again, go to the forums of a single player game and ask them to add online features, crafting and a auction house, basically the same way diablo 3 is. It requires far less resources because those features only has to be added once and the rest of the game is already designed for your type of gameplay.
Let's start at the very first study, which, after all these years, people who converse on this subject are still willfully ignorant of, for some reason.
If you want more, Blizzard, EA, etc. have reams of compiled internal data which demonstrates the predominance of solo play in MMO's since their inception.
The second M in MMORPG does stand for multiplayer, as in multiples of players on one server at the same time. It has never meant those players should be forced, or coerced through predjudicial penalization of playstyle, into playing the game in a way that they don't want to. I understand that there are players out there whose arrogance leads them to believe that others should be forced to play the game their way, but they would be wrong.
Solo players have every bit as much right to play MMO's as raiders do, and their greater numbers only serves to drive home the point further, as commerce is an important factor in the gaming industry. Raiders suggesting solo players "go play an RPG" are simply demonstrating the type of anti social behaviour that they claim is the problem with soloers, and in the end just don't add anything of value to the conversation.
Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
Forced grouping is not social.
Agreed. The people who state otherwise have never played a game with a true community. I pity them.
i like solo play a lot, but i also like group play. I tend to look for mature guilds to socialize but I think i have really bad luck finding guilds for group play because every guild i join claim to be mature and they never talk to guildies, only a select group taht know each other talk to each other and all they talk is..... top gear, raids, real life issues (even if they say they are casual friendly).... i guess they think those are the mature topics ?.... oh well.... maybe i just keep soloing and avoid groups. Bad luck is bad luck lol
Originally posted by Normandy7 Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
Forced grouping is not social.
Agreed. The people who state otherwise have never played a game with a true community. I pity them.
Nonsense. The less people need each other, the more a community suffers. The more solo a game, the less you need other people. It's common sense.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
Forced grouping is not social.
Agreed. The people who state otherwise have never played a game with a true community. I pity them.
Nonsense. The less people need each other, the more a community suffers. The more solo a game, the less you need other people. It's common sense.
Needing people is not necessarily needed to build a community. I have played several games where you don't need people at all and they were very friendly communities. Istaria is one of them: Very friendly, lot of chatter, lot of people willing to help if you want it but you can learn everything and do almost everything in the game by yourself.
So no the community does not suffer if people do not need each other.
edit- common sense is usually just an individual perception of what they believe is real, and not anything based on reality.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
It produces fun, which is all that matters in any game.
Nonsense. The less people need each other, the more a community suffers. The more solo a game, the less you need other people. It's common sense.
The only way to have a true community is when people have common goals and common interests and that's just not what we see in modern MMOs. Half the reason that communities worked in older MMOs is because the people who played them shared common interests outside of the MMO, they could talk about other things while they were playing. Back in the day, I couldn't get into a group where everyone couldn't quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail verbatim. That isn't the case today. People in these games no longer share any common bonds, MMOs no longer represent a single community, they are dozens or hundreds of communities and it will never go back to the way it was.
Stop living in the past. The kind of community game that used to exist is gone and will never come back.
Originally posted by Normandy7 Group play promotes socializing in games and creating community which most mmos sorely lack where as solo play doesn't promote anything useful to mmos. If I wanted to solo games I would stick to single player rpgs.
Forced grouping is not social.
Agreed. The people who state otherwise have never played a game with a true community. I pity them.
Nonsense. The less people need each other, the more a community suffers. The more solo a game, the less you need other people. It's common sense.
Needing people is not necessarily needed to build a community. I have played several games where you don't need people at all and they were very friendly communities. Istaria is one of them: Very friendly, lot of chatter, lot of people willing to help if you want it but you can learn everything and do almost everything in the game by yourself.
So no the community does not suffer if people do not need each other.
edit- common sense is usually just an individual perception of what they believe is real, and not anything based on reality.
Just watch the Landreau episode of the original Star Trek or any Borg episode, and you'll see how silly the argument is. Grouping based on free and good will is what makes good communities. Freedom to do things by yourself, freedom to group with friends. Kinda like real life! If you find yourself saying "he is not one of us..." you'll know you've slipped over into the bad grouping, mob mentality.
Comments
I believe if thers such a high demand for soloing, Developers should be making more single player rpg's for them. Then maybe they would play those more often and not bother with mmorpg's. Plus nowadays since consoles went online, developers have the meens to add more content to single player games, just like mmo's developers have. Thus expanding the longtevity of those games.
To me MMORPG's should be made for grouping and community building, and Single player RPG's made for ppl that want to solo.
I have no clue why developers are trying to bend and twist the 2 together, I really miss my ffxi days before abbysea
Soloing in MMO's should just be strickly for farming and gathering crafting meterials, and fishing, everything else should have the playerbase work together as a team.
Just my 2 cents.
1. Soloer's and groupers are not two distinct bodies. Yes a minority from each group will be extremists, the majority will do both activities, so the game needs to have ways to support both.
2. You cannot ask for a virtual world on one hand and ignore soloers, or groupers on the other. The real world, that a virtual world is based on, doesn't need to have other people for all activities, and some activities require lots of other people. So if you ask for a virtual world you are also asking for solo activity. If you think it doesn't, you are lying to yourself.
Yeah, because the real world also has elves, magic and dragons, so it makes sense that everything should be the same..
Massive "Single"player Oline Roleplaying Game?? LOL
MMORPG´s should have plenty of both styles. Nuff said
Games Played: Anarchy Online,Star Wars Galaxies,WOW,Eve,Darkfall,Vanguard, Fallen Earth,SWTOR,GW2,Tera,ESO,Wildstar, Black Desert, Archeage & Albion Online
Now playing: Conan Exiles & Rocket League
Games looking forward to: Diablo 4! & Star Citizen?
I personally enjoy the Guild Wars 2 way of grouping. I all the mmos I have played, I have rarely if ever joined a tight knit group, guild, party, etc. I have yet to join a Guild in gw2. However, I find myself often randomly grouping up with people in the game world for Dynamic Events, which work well in sync with the lack of Holy Trinity. Often times I will ask for help in Group Events if I can't do them myself.
The one problem however, is the lack of real talking. We communicate, but it is with our abilities and actions in gw2. If the content of group events was a little more complicated, I think people will communicate more, even if it is to whine.
However, the simple fact of knowing these complete strangers have my back even if I don't talk with them is comforting and I enjoy the game a lot. The ability to solo by yourself yet just naturally (almost weirdly) flow into a group (zerg as trolls will call it) is the best way I have seen an MMO do it so far, and I hope many similair systems will go in place to help facilitate that even more.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
No but those are all people living in a world that is filled with rules. The point still stands. You can't ask for a virtual world and then not include things that a world would not only aturally have, but is expected in a world.
You expect flora, fauna of some kinds, usually a sentient species. You don't expect everyone to always do everything together, nor do you expect everyone to always do everything alone.
In a real world, if people were going out to fight massive rats, dire wolves, packs of orcs, or entering a dark, scary dungeon populated with the reanimated dead, unless they're insane they wouldn't be thinking they're badass enough to go it alone. See, in a real world, you get one shot, you don't respawn after death you.. uhh.. die. So if you're talking realism and worldly rules then you're also talking about wanting to save your own skin, and the best way to do that is through overwhelming numbers. There's a reason Rambo doesn't exist in the real world and we send out armies instead of lone wolves.
And yet many people do/did go out and hunt wolves, bears, tigers, elephants, lions... alone. Many people do/did go exploring into strange new lands, new countries alone.
There are many many many many activities that you can do in the real world alone including hunting, exploring, building, crafting, farming... hermits live alone. Many people work alone.
I did not state nor imply that groups were never needed, nor that most activities don't require groups. I stated that there are many situations where groups are not needed.
Therefore you cannot have a virtual world and completely ignore basic aspects that a world is based on. Therefore you cannot eliminate soloing likewise you cannot eliminate grouping. If you completel eliminate either one it is no longer a virtual world.
Solo explorers:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel/felicity-aston-antarctic-explorer/index.html
http://www.abandonthecube.com/Adventurers.html
http://www.markwoodexplorer.com/expeditions/north-south-solo-expedition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Around_the_world_sailing_record
Solo hunters
http://www.solohunterstv.com/
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1423439
http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=5&threadid=356191&MESSAGES=12&FF=5
http://www.skinnymoose.com/hogblog/2008/04/10/going-it-alone-hunting-solo/
The raid oriented crowd is smaller in numbers than the soloers, yet they seem to think MMO's should only be designed to meet their needs, so why not the other way around.
Personally, I would prefer an MMO where everyone is included (GW2 was an admirable try at this), but if soloers keep running into a glass ceiling at every turn, maybe a little seperation is in order, to allow everyone an equal chance at progressing their characters to their fullest potential, and to experience all of the content.
Since allowing soloers to do this is vehemently opposed at every turn by raiders, then maybe seperate servers are in order. It's not like this would be an incredibly taxing endeavour for the devs, All they would have to do is increase the quality of the drops from existing quests/mobs, then block that server from participating in cross server activities like pvp and auction houses, and the raiders on the other servers wouldn't be affected in the slightest.
Do you have any sources to back up that claim?. Raiding is multiplayer gameplay, soloing is not. That is not only enough reason to design a MMORPG for raiding endgame but it is also simple logic. People who are raiding is not only raiding when they play, they solo, run dungeons, pvp, craft etc. If you want to solo that is fine, if you want a single player experience however then a single player game is the answer and not multiplayer games.
Different servers with super loot for basically everything you do?, that is pretty ridicolous, it wouldt make much sense to start with, it would also not solve your problem since they would also have to nerf every group/raid boss that has mechanics that could never be beaten by a single person no matter the gear. Its not a logical sollution for a self created problem. You and anyone else with this mindset should visit the forums of some up and coming single player game and discuss over there about adding a multiplayer option with crafting, auction house, a chat channel and the option to group up for single player content. Instead of trying to turn MMORPG's into single player game with multiplayer tacked on to them.
And here I go back again to the fact that we're talking about a game world, not the real world. In the real world a hunter would shoot an arrow or a bullet into a wolf and it would crumple under the pain, making it a relatively simple target. In a game that wolf loses 5 hitpoints then turns and starts ripping you a new one.
The world is inhabited by communities if you hadn't noticed. Before our population grew to massive levels we still came together for safety, security and companionship. I don't care if Bob the Hunter decided to become a loner and go for a wander in the great outdoors, people naturally look to each other for protection, why do you think villages and cities evolved in the first place?
I have no problem with someone trying to deal with the dangers alone, I'm not advocating the complete removal of soloing from MMO's, but it should be a difficult process. Community first, self last, that's how it should be. Lone hunters are very cautious, they ensure their scent isn't noticed, hide for a time, prepare ambushes, attack only when they're certain of a kill, pick off the weak from a herd.. And that's how it should be, soloing should be hard and dangerous, not a straight run from start to end without needing another person.
Game world or not, it is still a virtual world. That is the key, a VIRTUAL WORLD. This means that the people in the world have all sorts of choices.
I never stated it shouldn't be difficult, I never stated it shouldn't be harder. I have maintained that it should be possible. That eliminating it completely breaks the rules on what a world is, therefore it is not a virtual world anymore.
You may not have been advocating the complete removal. But there are many that are stating exactly that and still wanting a virtual world. To them I say you cannot have a virtual world without it.
The devs are well aware of the predominance of solo gameplay through their own internal studies, and the gameplaying public has been ever since the "Alone Together" study was released. The very nature of online gaming draws a high percentage of introverts, who naturally prefer solo gameplay. The devs have a hard time understanding (and therefore delivering content for) them because the devs are more predisposed towards extraversion, therefore they experience a natural disconnect with that personality type.
The second M in MMORPG stands for multiple, meaning many people playing at one time. That means all playstyles, not just raiding, otherwise they'd be called MRORPG's. I can understand how after being catered to hand and foot by the devs over the years, the raiders would think that to be so, but that is not the case.
As for different servers with super loot, didn't ask for that, just a valid means for soloers to progress their characters as far as anyone else. If raiders are so offended by the possibility of soloers being rewarded for their efforts in a fair and equitable manner, then maybe a little seperation is in order.
You have to remember raids are purely time sinks, the incentive is awesome gear. Let's say 40 people, 5 of each class, 3 drops per raid mob, randomized between different classes. Just how many times do you have to run that raid to guarantee you get all your drops?
How would you create a way for soloers to progress their character as far as the raiders, while keeping the amount of time required so high? Solo, by its very nature, is going to be a set path to completion, thus just the one run through of some solo instance is generally enough. If not, then how many times are you going to be happy repeating the same instance on your own until you get what you need? 20 times? 50? 100? If a game asks me to repeat the same instance on my own that many times then I'm going to be saying goodbye to the game.
The thing with raiding is it brings people together, it's not just about the instance it's about the people around you, and though soloers don't seem to realise, that makes a WORLD of difference. I could run the same dungeon in Oblviion a couple of times, but any more and I've had enough. A raid is different every time purely because of human error, compensating for someone elses mistakes, altering tactics on the fly as someone unexpectedly dies, etc. A solo instance lacks that danger because it has to be tailored to one person, so repeating that same instance will quickly become very boring and repetitive.
I asked if you had any actual sources to back up that claim, you still have not provided any. I am an introvert myself and I still enjoy multiplayer gameplay over soloing, so just because someone is an introvert does not automatically mean that they prefer soloing over everything else in a MMORPG. You do not speak for every introverted individual out there so dont use introverted people as an argument.
The second M in MMORPG has and always will stand for multiplayer, you can look it up if you want. There is also more forms of multiplayer gameplay than raiding, you have grouping, pvp, trading etc, the thing that they all have in common is that they all require other players to even exist while soloing does not. It is not a matter of being catered to, its a matter of multiplayer gameplay in a multiplayer game.
Seperation is not a logical sollution because developers have to make seperate changes to a seperate version of the original game just for a few soloers on their own seperated server. Ive said it before and I will say it again, go to the forums of a single player game and ask them to add online features, crafting and a auction house, basically the same way diablo 3 is. It requires far less resources because those features only has to be added once and the rest of the game is already designed for your type of gameplay.
Let's start at the very first study, which, after all these years, people who converse on this subject are still willfully ignorant of, for some reason.
http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/Ducheneaut,%20Yee,%20Nickell,%20Moore%20-%20Alone%20Together%20(2006).pdf
If you want more, Blizzard, EA, etc. have reams of compiled internal data which demonstrates the predominance of solo play in MMO's since their inception.
The second M in MMORPG does stand for multiplayer, as in multiples of players on one server at the same time. It has never meant those players should be forced, or coerced through predjudicial penalization of playstyle, into playing the game in a way that they don't want to. I understand that there are players out there whose arrogance leads them to believe that others should be forced to play the game their way, but they would be wrong.
Solo players have every bit as much right to play MMO's as raiders do, and their greater numbers only serves to drive home the point further, as commerce is an important factor in the gaming industry. Raiders suggesting solo players "go play an RPG" are simply demonstrating the type of anti social behaviour that they claim is the problem with soloers, and in the end just don't add anything of value to the conversation.
Forced grouping is not social.
Agreed. The people who state otherwise have never played a game with a true community. I pity them.
i like solo play a lot, but i also like group play. I tend to look for mature guilds to socialize but I think i have really bad luck finding guilds for group play because every guild i join claim to be mature and they never talk to guildies, only a select group taht know each other talk to each other and all they talk is..... top gear, raids, real life issues (even if they say they are casual friendly).... i guess they think those are the mature topics ?.... oh well.... maybe i just keep soloing and avoid groups. Bad luck is bad luck lol
Nonsense. The less people need each other, the more a community suffers. The more solo a game, the less you need other people. It's common sense.
Needing people is not necessarily needed to build a community. I have played several games where you don't need people at all and they were very friendly communities. Istaria is one of them: Very friendly, lot of chatter, lot of people willing to help if you want it but you can learn everything and do almost everything in the game by yourself.
So no the community does not suffer if people do not need each other.
edit- common sense is usually just an individual perception of what they believe is real, and not anything based on reality.
It produces fun, which is all that matters in any game.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
The only way to have a true community is when people have common goals and common interests and that's just not what we see in modern MMOs. Half the reason that communities worked in older MMOs is because the people who played them shared common interests outside of the MMO, they could talk about other things while they were playing. Back in the day, I couldn't get into a group where everyone couldn't quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail verbatim. That isn't the case today. People in these games no longer share any common bonds, MMOs no longer represent a single community, they are dozens or hundreds of communities and it will never go back to the way it was.
Stop living in the past. The kind of community game that used to exist is gone and will never come back.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Just watch the Landreau episode of the original Star Trek or any Borg episode, and you'll see how silly the argument is. Grouping based on free and good will is what makes good communities. Freedom to do things by yourself, freedom to group with friends. Kinda like real life!
If you find yourself saying "he is not one of us..." you'll know you've slipped over into the bad grouping, mob mentality.