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Do we need personal stories?

ScarfeScarfe londonPosts: 281Member

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a story-driven single player game; I just don't need them in my mmo's.  I have three principal issues:- 

Firstly, it always seems slightly absurd that I am 'the' hero, when I know full well that the hundreds of people who completed the quest before me, and the ten people gathered around me speaking to my npc, are also the same hero. 

Secondly, the stories are generally too prescriptive.  My character is no longer my own, it is performing someone elses actions and speaking someone elses lines. 

Finally, it is bloody expensive.  Voice acting and cutscenes on every little 'kill ten rats' quest (SWTOR) drains money that could be better spent on more mmo-y features. 

They are my thoughts on the matter, please feel free to add your own.   

 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

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Comments

  • QtarQtar BitolaPosts: 165Member Uncommon

    All what i want in game is longevity good gameplay, to be addictive. Don't want perfect graphics with empty world, if i want good story i will read book or i will be play single player game.

    I will take for example DDO anyone who play this game will be know what features have this game turn aside some p2w things. With some more effort this game will be perfect.

    Currently playing: HC Diablo 3, DDO
    MMORPG experiences:EQ2, AoC(pre f2p), Lotro,GW1,DDO, Aion,WoW( stop with wotlk),Allods, GW2
    Eu,War.
    Waiting On: WoD Sometime Maybe: Elder Scrolls MMO, Might and Magic

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    No, personal stories are not needed for a successful mmorpg. Many people forget what the last 3 letters mean..... role playing game,

    for those that dont know what RPG means:

    "Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role"

     

    I feel a good mmorpg needs a good balance of other features to allow this to happen. Most newer games center on either pve or pvp. You neglect so many other types of players by doing this. And the excuses for this is absurd. You need pve, pvp, crafting, social hubs, interaction, a good sized world, housing, animal/creatre interaction, and so much more to give us the tools to role play. Not hand us a story and lead us down a set path and tell us what to do.

    Story can only get your character so far. Once its done, your character is stuck in a loop of doing dailies, raids, and warzone over and over as content. To me this is not a good game style. Why i prefer sandboxes and games that give you tools to make your own future and the freedom to explore the full game.

    People that need a story, just arent creative or lazy in my book. Its not what mmorpgs are about and it has turned the genre into the fast and easy games of your console rpgs. Then people wonder why the games only last a few months and go f2p as a result. Complain constantly that the game didnt live up to the hype.......... how can it when all it has is story and nothing else.

    I am glad many dev teams are taking a stand against wow success and trying to follow them. Happy to see a large number of sandboxes coming out finaly. I think majority of people are bored and tired of these newer games. Its the same old stuff. This will help promote competition and get the themepark devs back on their toes and perhaps we will get better games from both ends.

     

     

  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat SP, MOPosts: 312Member
    On the other hand, a game that gives you very little and relies on all the players to make the world...I might as well be playing The Sims.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I found personal story boring in swtor and even more noting in gw2, although thankfully in gw2 the story is purely optional.

    The story was good in tsw, it would have made a fantastic sprpg.
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I found personal story boring in swtor and even more noting in gw2, although thankfully in gw2 the story is purely optional.

    The story was good in tsw, it would have made a fantastic sprpg.

     

    I very much preferred the way GW2 handled it.  The way SWTOR did it actually sort of killed the game for me.  I could pvp for experience (at an outrageously unnacceptable rate but it was possible) but still was left having to do the story or just not really be able to play higher level areas at all.  That coupled with the fact that in that game i was forced to grind through the same boring story that i didn't even enjoy the first time if i wantd to make an alt of the same basic class...

    GW2 was fine though in that Its there for those who want, but can just be ignored and you can pvp to 80 instead and be fine.

    truthfully though, in the spirit of the topic, i agree with the others who would rather just see the resources spent on better game systems put into place.  Maybe theres a demographic out there though who feels the storyline makes or breaks the game.  I'm just not certain why those people would be playing MMORPGs.

    edit: i'm not really trying to bash SWTOR's story as boring. I find ALL story bits in games boring.  It is quite a personal preference of mine and nothing more. I am a poor judge of story quality.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Nope

    I'd rather see that story dialog and quest design broken up into chained side quests someone can happen upon. The story of my character starts each time I log in and having canned stories I need to complete to progress is just boring IMO.

    I'm reminded of the egoraptor Megaman segment. I don't need to be told the whole time what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Give me something to play with queues and let me go.

    "MEGAMAN, MEGAMAN!!"
  • Marcus-Marcus- Posts: 970Member Uncommon
    Personal stories are pretty much the complete opposite reason i fell in love with MMOs all those years ago...
  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member

    Do we need a prescripted, choose your own adventure, type of personal story? I say a big hell no to that. What players of a massively mutliplayer role playing game need are tools and events to where they can create stories themselves.

    For example "A river dragon has crawled out of the river and is rampaging through the city", or "The mighty barbarian horde approaches", or even "I don't know about you but I've about had it up to here with living in a mud hut in the middle of the swamp, why don't we band together and build a city out of stone where we have something better to use as toilet paper than leeches?"

    Those are ways players can feel they are a part of the game world and actually matter. The way its been done traditionally they just end up being one of many faceless clones standing in line to aquire their own personal "One true sword of destiny". Which makes the whole endeavor entirely pointless.

     

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    I finished about level 50 in my personal story on GW2 but leveled to 80 so from what I did in that game, I guess I don't care as much about personal story as other things since I didn't jump to finish it.

    I agree, the whole "You are the hero" schtick is a little tired. If the NPC knows everything that needs to be done and even where to do it and how, it does make me wonder why they are waiting around for me, agoraphobia or what. The worst are when they have some uber weapon that will do the job and hand it to me, then I just want to walk away. If all you needed was this weapon to be used, you don't need me because it's right there in your hands.

     

  • ZalmonZalmon Bloomington, INPosts: 319Member
    Yes i do need them if they are as good as TSW and SWTOR but i don't need them if they are gonna be as bad as the ones in GW2.
  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).
    image
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon

    No. Single-player games are my "personal stories". I think the optional route GW2 took is quite good, but I'd still prefer that money going somewhere else.

    Single-player stories in instanced games like GW1 or Diablo are fine, though.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    It really depends on the community for me. If people are actually going to act as they should reletive to the universe then no it doesnt need a story, The story will from itself Via Interation. If The community turns into a "i have a AK who should i shoot first" type of outlook yes you need a story and a Flagging system to stop the game from becoming a never ending Deathmatch. It simply has to do with who is playing.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    NO. Stories which does not make some sense in a MMORPG setting has no place in an MMO. It is a cop-out by devs instead of trying to flesh out the virtual world.
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by elocke
    I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

    As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon

  • AvarixAvarix Chicago, ILPosts: 379Member Uncommon
    Depends on how the personal story is implemented. If it's voice acting and cut-scenes, no thank you. Those resources could be used for something else that matters quite a bit more. However, if it's written dialogue I can enjoy it. Written doesn't hog resources and my imagination will always do a better job of bringing the written characters to life than a voice actor and whatever the newest technology is for bringing pictures to life. RPGs were built on imagination, the more freedom it gives me to use that the better. Just give me the tools to make my own story.
  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    NO. Stories which does not make some sense in a MMORPG setting has no place in an MMO. It is a cop-out by devs instead of trying to flesh out the virtual world.

    As much as i'd love to agree with your statement, i have seen first hand what happens in a "fleshed out world" if the Dev's dont put something in to make you understand how the world works. FoM for example just dropped you in the middle of a game with a very Deep Virtual World, However because people were just getting drop into the middle of it the majority of players just simple thought "Gank Time"

     

    My opinion is that you NEED something to start the player base off, like how EvE opens up. Without it you the game will crumble quickly. THis is why i say you need the community, and given that we had a Massive influx of people coming from Call of Duty, We need some kinda story to give them perspective.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • ZalmonZalmon Bloomington, INPosts: 319Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by elocke
    I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

    As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

    Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    What do you do when your story runs out? Seems to me its better to use your imagination long term than be given a story short term. Some of these games rip through this stuff, max level in 3 days, and then there isnt anything to do. Not what i want in my mmorp's.

    Games like LoTRO has much more than story telling, so you have options. Games like TSW, SWTOR, etc you have one set path and thats about it. LoTRO is also a pretty good sized game with decent map to allow you freedom.

    Just dont understand why people want mmorpgs like single player stories, why not jut go play one instead of wanting an entirely different genre to merge with single player genre, which mmo's seperated itself from long ago.

    "One day i go  explore, find a mysterious place or an ancient creature. Next day i decide to craft some in an indpeth crafting system to occupy me. Day after that i run quests and level up. Well now im tired of all this so i decide to decorate my house and just take it easy for a day. Now that im refreshed i want to get some action..head out to the locale pvp area and battle it out, things get lopsided.... i can head out to something else. The freedom feels so good."

    "I have to follow this path, take this set quest to continue my advancement. Down a long path with high walls on each side so that i can not explore or look around. With a handful of creatures to slay on a timer. Finaly i reach my destination and battle the boss. Wow i gots some loot. Back to the quest giver down that long linear path. No time to take it easy, must get to my next quest giver I only need 8k more xp before next level.. 5 hours later....... im max level woot, game only been out a week and i didnt need to group or talk to anyone. Now i have nothing to do but dailies, raids, and warzone 500 times in a row."

     

    Can you tell which is a sandbox and which is a themepark ;) I dont get much enjoyment out of the newer themeparks at all. They are so quick and lack almost all mmorpg features now. Older themeparks offered much much more and kept players going.

     

     

    "The term “themepark” brings to mind the idea of a setting with attractions to ride over and over. But no matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

    The concept of a themepark MMO is much the same. Heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops!"

     

    "The “Sandbox” MMO is a quite different beast from the theme park MMO. The sandbox MMO is designed as a frame that players can play in and a big toolbox that allows them to make their own content. In a sandbox MMO you will find very few quests that fill out your leveling experience and it will be much more up to yourself to decide where you want to go and do said leveling. The experience that sandbox MMO’s generally aim to provide is that of a truly massive and open world for the players to explore and form for themselves. These games really appeal to our lust for exploration and pioneering spirit"

    Im the later, im very creative, love exploration even in real life, and just like the overall freedom. Perhaps one of the reasons i can never get into a themepark. Maybe thats what has ruined my experience with the newer games. I like using my brain, solving puzzles, crafting new and exciting items, finding lost city, etc...  What are you guys? What has had a huge impact on your feelings or play style. Do think TSW is about the only newer game (minus rift) that i liked, because you need to think and solve things. But taking my time, as i know the story will run out eventualy :(

     

    And this isnt attacking one or the other, just curious to why people choose one oer the other.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zalmon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by elocke
    I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

    As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

    Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

    They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

    And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    I actually land in both catagories, i enjoy both Sandbox and Themepark. However ive seen sandboxes crumble and fail so i have a idea of whats needed to make them succesful. Which is a opening PVE area with a story and quests to get you a idea of how the universe works. without it instead of what you explained happening it would look more like this.

     

    "i Wake up and venture into the world, upon leaving my house i see 30 people screaming LOL and ROFL while killing eachother. I sneak around and attempt to enter a city where i see more of the same. i eventually find some open ground i can explore however, I find it nice so i continue. While exploring 3 people jump me from behind and i die quickly. I wake up later and see i have mail. inside i have 14 messages all saying "lol you suck L2P noob""

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • ZalmonZalmon Bloomington, INPosts: 319Member
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Originally posted by Zalmon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by elocke
    I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

    As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

    Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

    They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

    And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

    Subjective and matter of opinion.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zalmon
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Originally posted by Zalmon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by elocke
    I think they should be necessary.  The best MMOs I've played:  FFXI and Lotro were filled with awesome storylines that made them different from the rest of the offerings in the genre and make me keep coming back for more and their updates.  Games without a personal storyline, even as a side option always end up boring me i.e. Eve, SWG, WoW, Rift(yes some of these have storylines, but they aren't reliant on my character to be told).

    As you seem to put so much weight on single player storylines I think you need to ask yourself why are you playing an MMO instead of a single player RPG?

    Maybe because he is not a MMO purist and is going with the flow? MMOS have eveolved and are still changing and are not confined into rigid definitions or rule sets anymore. 

    They havent evolved, they went backwards. Thats why newer console single player games offer more content than new mmo's? Think thats the opposite. Fuinny how newer mmorpgs tell you content hours now on previews like old single player games did in the past. Its sad. MMORPG's shouldnt have an expiration date lol.

    And the definitions are pretty clear and think they hold up nicely in todays market still. Themepark, sandbox, mmorpg, mmo, mog, mmofps, mmorts........... Dont think we need to change anything because a few people cant understand what they mean or want to change everything around for themselves.

    Subjective and matter of opinion.

    As was yours ;)

  • Saur0nSaur0n Denver, COPosts: 113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Onomas

    What do you do when your story runs out? Seems to me its better to use your imagination long term than be given a story short term. Some of these games rip through this stuff, max level in 3 days, and then there isnt anything to do. Not what i want in my mmorp's.

    Games like LoTRO has much more than story telling, so you have options. Games like TSW, SWTOR, etc you have one set path and thats about it. LoTRO is also a pretty good sized game with decent map to allow you freedom.

    Just dont understand why people want mmorpgs like single player stories, why not jut go play one instead of wanting an entirely different genre to merge with single player genre, which mmo's seperated itself from long ago.

    "One day i go  explore, find a mysterious place or an ancient creature. Next day i decide to craft some in an indpeth crafting system to occupy me. Day after that i run quests and level up. Well now im tired of all this so i decide to decorate my house and just take it easy for a day. Now that im refreshed i want to get some action..head out to the locale pvp area and battle it out, things get lopsided.... i can head out to something else. The freedom feels so good."

    "I have to follow this path, take this set quest to continue my advancement. Down a long path with high walls on each side so that i can not explore or look around. With a handful of creatures to slay on a timer. Finaly i reach my destination and battle the boss. Wow i gots some loot. Back to the quest giver down that long linear path. No time to take it easy, must get to my next quest giver I only need 8k more xp before next level.. 5 hours later....... im max level woot, game only been out a week and i didnt need to group or talk to anyone. Now i have nothing to do but dailies, raids, and warzone 500 times in a row."

     

    Can you tell which is a sandbox and which is a themepark ;) I dont get much enjoyment out of the newer themeparks at all. They are so quick and lack almost all mmorpg features now. Older themeparks offered much much more and kept players going.

     

     

    "The term “themepark” brings to mind the idea of a setting with attractions to ride over and over. But no matter how many times you ride the attractions, the details just never change. If you wait several years and go back, they are right there, waiting for you...just as you left them. While this could be fun the first few times, it gets boring quick and you could find yourself looking at other themeparks for new and more exciting rides.

    The concept of a themepark MMO is much the same. Heavily driven by developers from the very start, new players begin with a set path to follow. The developer controls the experience, from the first time a player logs in with a new character and every time after, until that character achieves the level cap for that particular game. Developers restrict the attractions offered, often only allowing one ride at a time. In other words, once on there’s no turning back until the ride stops!"

     

    "The “Sandbox” MMO is a quite different beast from the theme park MMO. The sandbox MMO is designed as a frame that players can play in and a big toolbox that allows them to make their own content. In a sandbox MMO you will find very few quests that fill out your leveling experience and it will be much more up to yourself to decide where you want to go and do said leveling. The experience that sandbox MMO’s generally aim to provide is that of a truly massive and open world for the players to explore and form for themselves. These games really appeal to our lust for exploration and pioneering spirit"

    Im the later, im very creative, love exploration even in real life, and just like the overall freedom. Perhaps one of the reasons i can never get into a themepark. Maybe thats what has ruined my experience with the newer games. I like using my brain, solving puzzles, crafting new and exciting items, finding lost city, etc...  What are you guys? What has had a huge impact on your feelings or play style. Do think TSW is about the only newer game (minus rift) that i liked, because you need to think and solve things. But taking my time, as i know the story will run out eventualy :(

     

    And this isnt attacking one or the other, just curious to why people choose one oer the other.

    That's why I will always love Ultima Online.  You had to think before you act.  Modern mmorpgs just leave you feeling like a zombie being led by the nose from quest to quest and zone to zone and by end game you've seen all the content without even knowing it.

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