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Looking for MMO that's not pay-to-win

suzinasuzina Anaheim, CAPosts: 4Member

I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

My first thought was LOTRO, great lore, rich beautiful world, I loved that game, but I left when they started selling stat scrolls for cash.  I hear end-game crafting mats and the like are for sale.  So Lotro is a bit too pay to win for me to.

 

Sometimes, it's hard for me to know if a game is pay to win until after I get to end-game, so let me ask, what's a good NON-pay-to-win MMO out there?

 

Some other games I'm considering:

EQ2 - I played it at launch, put 1000 hours /played to get my character to get to level 35.  I hear leveling is faster now and that there's tons of stuff added in the 8 years since I quit.  I only worry that the whole "free to play" thing is pay to win.

GW2 - I played it in beta, I was impressed, but ultimately I chose to continue playing swtor instead.  I'm curious about this one.

 

 

Thanks for your help!

-Suzina

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Comments

  • KrematoryKrematory TVNPosts: 542Member Uncommon
    GW2 and TSW are both B2P and definitely not pay to win. Subscription wise you also have Rift, WoW, or even EVE if you're interested in something different.
    Cheers!

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 866Member Uncommon

    There is also this:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/all/sCol/monthlyFee/sOrder/desc

    Look for games with the $ (not the ¢ or H) under "pay" (next to "fee")

    /2c

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by suzina

    I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

     

    Thanks for your help!

    -Suzina

     

    Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W.   That is how the game is designed, but I suppose some are less intrusive than others.   I have seen players state The Secret World, GW2, and Aion would be similar to what you are looking for, but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those.  

  • NeferaNefera XPosts: 426Member
    I only have experience of GW2 out of these games, the game is not pay to win. Cash shop items include a few armour skins (plenty of variety without cash shop too), non-combat costume skins, dyes (drop fairly frequently in game, most are cheap on trading post), minipets, makeover kits, remote bank/trading post access, armors repair item, resurrection orb (not usable in pvp), minor speed/armor/damage/magic find boosts (not useable in pvp, you can get mostly the same buffs in game from foods), character slots and mystic chests (contain a buff, tool and gem store convenience item Kiev, keys, though rare, do also drop from monsters in pve). You can turn in game currency into cash shop currency, so you can get all cash shop items without ever spending a penny if you have the patience to farm the gold for it.
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    Its worth a recheck on EQ2, i beleive they have a 2 week trial

    image

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Glenview, ILPosts: 694Member Uncommon
    TSW and GW2 are both B2P.  GW2: Fantasy setting; TSW: Present day zombie apocalypse.

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common

    any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

    because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • RasereiRaserei webster, MAPosts: 1,011Member
    Asheron's Call 2
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gessekai332

    any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

    because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

    Hmm... how's that hasty generalization working out for ya?

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • ionxeelionxeel WarsawPosts: 304Member Common
    Try Aion, the NA version. It has the best F2P model out there.
  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,615Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by suzina

    I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

    My first thought was LOTRO, great lore, rich beautiful world, I loved that game, but I left when they started selling stat scrolls for cash.  I hear end-game crafting mats and the like are for sale.  So Lotro is a bit too pay to win for me to.

     

    Sometimes, it's hard for me to know if a game is pay to win until after I get to end-game, so let me ask, what's a good NON-pay-to-win MMO out there?

     

    Some other games I'm considering:

    EQ2 - I played it at launch, put 1000 hours /played to get my character to get to level 35.  I hear leveling is faster now and that there's tons of stuff added in the 8 years since I quit.  I only worry that the whole "free to play" thing is pay to win.

    GW2 - I played it in beta, I was impressed, but ultimately I chose to continue playing swtor instead.  I'm curious about this one.

     

     

    Thanks for your help!

    -Suzina

    Sorry Suzi, if you think think one game is pay to win, then basically they are all pay to win unless they are subscription, and even then they might still be pay to win.   

    Frankly I think the concept most gamers have of pay to win is a load of horsepucky, but the wise ones that inhabit these forums tell me that I a simply uninformed and ignorant, and so I bow to their wisdom.

    By the way, I hope you "win" your next MMO.  

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    There are not many non-pay to win MMO's left. TERA, GW 2, Secret World, WoW, Rift. Basically the major sub. based one's. However, all of these have a cash shop so they could easily become Pay To Win at any moment.

    Best would be to find one that has no cash shop at all. Possibly Darkfall UW but that is PvP focused MMO. Warhammer Online, but that game is dying. Dunno really, not a good time for MMOs without a cash shop...

    EDIT: I heard Eve being mentioned there but I would consider the Pay to Win component in that game to be massive. Basically you can spend a bunch of real money to buy PLEX and then convert that to IG money and then buy whatever you want, completely legally. Ships, equipment and even high skilled characters. Eve is one of the biggest Pay to Win games out there.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    What ???-to-win would your prefer?

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by suzina

    I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

     

    Thanks for your help!

    -Suzina

     

    Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W.   That is how the game is designed, but I suppose some are less intrusive than others.   I have seen players state The Secret World, GW2, and Aion would be similar to what you are looking for, but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those.  

    Microtransaction does not equal pay to win at all.  You are absolutely wrong about that and I recommend doing some research prior to making a statment so blatantly inaacurate.  

     

    @OP if you feel like swithingt gears, give Planetside 2 a shot.  It is a fun massive MMOFPS, and in no way P2W.

     

    Best of luck.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by suzina

    I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

     

    Thanks for your help!

    -Suzina

     

    Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W.   That is how the game is designed, but I suppose some are less intrusive than others.   I have seen players state The Secret World, GW2, and Aion would be similar to what you are looking for, but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those.  

    Microtransaction does not equal pay to win at all.  You are absolutely wrong about that and I recommend doing some research prior to making a statment so blatantly inaacurate.  

     

    @OP if you feel like swithingt gears, give Planetside 2 a shot.  It is a fun massive MMOFPS, and in no way P2W.

     

    Best of luck.

    Principally he is correct. Cash shop games have an inherent Pay to Win competent in them unless the devs go to great lengths not to put things there that affect gameplay. Any cash shop that has anything that is not purely cosmetical is Pay to Win because it allows people to pay go get more powerful quicker.

    PS 2 is Pay to Win. Many items in that game can be obtained faster if you pay. I think you Pay to Win opponents take the therm literally as "winnin" in MMOs is not that straightforward. Basically Pay to Win should translate to Pay to get Advantages and almost every cash shop are like that.

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,576Member Uncommon
    WoW
  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    WoW and Rift are definitely your two best options if you want a fantasy MMORPG that is not pay-to-win in any way, shape or form.

  • saydursaydur OKC, OKPosts: 185Member

    While I can't really think of a F2P game that doesn't have some level of pay-to-win, I do know what that looks like and means.

    At one point, Nexon's flagship game Maple Story was not pay-to-win at all. The cash shop yielded only items for avatar appearance, world communication, and minor conveniences like pets whose sole contribution was picking up loot for you, something that wasn't always convenient.

    When things like 2x exp tickets first came out, that changed things. Grind mattered, thus grind speed gave people an advantage. It wasn't buying elite gear, but it did have impact. Now, the game has a trading system where gear can be bought and sold not unlike Diablo 3's real money auction house, except it's all based on in-game cash shop points. While grind has become so easy that increased exp coupons aren't a huge deal, the market really makes things pay-to-win.

    Meanwhile, other games outright offer equipment or gambling/gachapon/mystery purchases which yield gear so far beyond what is commonly available that it's not just pay-to-win, it's pay-to-even-try-PvP.

     

    Honestly, given how easy it is to purchase in-game gear either through gold farming purchases or cash shops, you're looking for a game that mandates the best gear be found, bound to character/account, and/or ignores gear enough that difference in skill is a reliable indicator of performance. If you don't mind how MOBAs and MMOFPS games require unlocks that take a long time and leave you at a serious disadvantage for a long period without paying, you'd be fine. Still, you'll need either quite a few hours of play time or an open wallet to unlock the means to fight competitively at the highest level.

    So long as people will pay to win, pay to win is a very attractive business model. If there were enough people who would pay to avoid pay to win, it might make sense to make a game that refuses the pay to win model entirely. At the same time, it seems there's always more people with enough money to ensure pay to win proponents are offering a more profitable game.

    Best of luck to you, even if I can't quote any examples. I know what you seek, but I don't know in what form it may exist.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 866Member Uncommon

    Not pay-to-win:

    I would consider this to mean either a) the game is pay-to-play (subscription) and/or b) buy-to-play with no virtual goods selling (legally) for real money.

    Vendetta Online is not a pay-to-win game; there is no dl/buy price, and it charges a low subscription fee.  More importantly, there are no virtual items / abilities / areas sold for cash.  If you are a subscriber, you are presented with the same game / virtual world / playing field as everyone else.  It appears as though VO is one of the few and far between games that actually do this, and this is one of the reasons I've kept playing for as long as I have.  It is also worth noting that the VO devs have followed their current business model for over 8 years.

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Hmm i would probably go with Rift aswell for this. It seems the most "oldschool" of the major sub based games out there currently. WoW technically qualifies aswell, but imho that train has left the station long ago i wouldn't recommend that game to players anymore.

    TSW im not so sure of, it just went B2P and there is some stuff in the store that smells of P2W to me. Like weapons and items that are not just cosmetic, it certainly looks like the beginnings of P2W to me.

     

    Calling EvE P2W is a bit harsh. Buying accounts/gold etc is always just a EULA violation away in any game. And your not buying advantages from CCP but from other players, thus it isn't affecting the games developement/direction which is imho one of the main complaints about P2W games(i.e. slowly increasing difficulty etc so that advantages from the store get mandatory).

  • VendettaDFAVendettaDFA Pleasant Hill, MOPosts: 72Member
    Aion is a good option to try out. Free to play and all the content is available to play as well. No having to purchase a dungeon run or expansion. It's still updated. The items in the cash shop are pretty much cosmetic. Excellent character creation section as well. If ya don't care for it you are out nothing.
  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    I would say World of Warcraft,

     

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • ender67ender67 FalticeniPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by gessekai332

    any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

    because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

    ^^^^

    Off-topic:

    This is exactly the reason why I consider dev's should inspire more from MOBA's when developing their games. MMORPG's should be more of "how I play it" and less of "what gear/level I have". I understand very well that RPG means progression, but DotA and all the games made after this mode, proved that you can have progression without: end game content, grind and 100 useless skills. 

    And a lot of gamers will say: and where is the purpose / finality in a game where you play the same map, with the same heroes, with only 4 skills, over and over again. Paradoxically less is more. It's harder to learn how to play a MobA then a MMORPG. That the true progression: what I learned and what I know.

    And interesting is the fact that MobA's have a bigger fan base then MMORPG's. In DotA 2 at 21:00 - 22:00 UTC+2 usualy are 200.000 concurent users playing. I presume that LoL and DotA have at least the same number of users. 

     

    On-topic:

    If you want a f2p that is not p2w you could try DotA 2. It has an awful community and a high learning curbe but I think that it's funny. If you need a beta-key for it, PM me.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by ender67
    Originally posted by gessekai332

    any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

    because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

    ^^^^

    Off-topic:

    This is exactly the reason why I consider dev's should inspire more from MOBA's when developing their games. MMORPG's should be more of "how I play it" and less of "what gear/level I have". I understand very well that RPG means progression, but DotA and all the games made after this mode, proved that you can have progression without: end game content, grind and 100 useless skills. 

    And a lot of gamers will say: and where is the purpose / finality in a game where you play the same map, with the same heroes, with only 4 skills, over and over again. Paradoxically less is more. It's harder to learn how to play a MobA then a MMORPG. That the true progression: what I learned and what I know.

    And interesting is the fact that MobA's have a bigger fan base then MMORPG's. In DotA 2 at 21:00 - 22:00 UTC+2 usualy are 200.000 concurent users playing. I presume that LoL and DotA have at least the same number of users. 

     

    On-topic:

    If you want a f2p that is not p2w you could try DotA 2. It has an awful community and a high learning curbe but I think that it's funny. If you need a beta-key for it, PM me.

    Moba's already exist, whats the point of making MMOs be like them? Thats like making action movies to be more like romance movies, in the end you just piss off both audiences.

    Also i fail to see how having less variety could be a improvement, we need more different games, not more similar games.

  • ender67ender67 FalticeniPosts: 17Member

    I'm not saying that the dev's should copy-paste MobA's. I'm saying that this genre has a lot of things that could be implemented in MMORPG's.

    ArenaNet tried to implement some things from MobA's with Guild Wars 2. For example in DotA you have just 1 hero from 105  that can taunt. The holy trinty doesn't exist in Moba's. You have at least 5 or six different roles. 

    I simply say that I want this things in MMORPG's. I cannot understand users that are crying after the holy trinity. Why should we have 3 roles to fufill: DPS, Tanker and Healer when we could have 10 or 15? Why should be one shot by another player just because he plays 10 hours per day and I'm playing 10 hours per week? 

    If you will ever play a MobA you will see that it has a greater complexity then the PVP of a MMORPG.

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