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I don't like FPS being associated with MMORPG.

24

Comments

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,918Member Uncommon

    I don't want to see MMORPGs get a bad reputation either.

     

    The worst I've seen so far is that employers will shy away from an applicant who is a hardcore (many hours a week) gamer, and that MMORPG players are nuts because they pay real money for in-game items (this was 10+ years ago in EQ when someone paid something like a thousand bucks for a sword).

     

    I'm hoping the industry will avoid being sucked into a 1984 scenario.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Lol @ mmorpgs having a good reputation amongst the anti-video-game nutjob moms.
  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Those little plastic army men that came in green, yellow, tan, and grey i use to use my imagination and make up gory battlegrounds and blow them up with small firecrackers when i was 10-12 roughly. That promotes violence also. Some people are just weak minded and cant seperate the two. Video games, real guns, plastic army men dont create death and violence. People do, especialy the feeble minded.

     

     

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Lol @ mmorpgs having a good reputation amongst the anti-video-game nutjob moms.

     

    Yeah, I guess that is a bit of a stretch.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • karmathkarmath Posts: 829Member Uncommon

    There was an actual study done and posted on Kotaku about this.

    The premise of it was the higher the amount of spending per country on games the lower their violent/gun crime rate is, with the only exception of the U.S.

    http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/12/there-is-barely-any-link-between-video-games-and-gun-murders-even-in-france/

    I have been redirecting  all of the hurr videogaymez r teh devil idiots here.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans  The games are social and don't glorify violence, there is no blood or gore or anything of the sorts in most MMO.

    You'd probably have a bit of trouble coming up with a list of a dozen MMOs where gameplay isn't primarily murder/killing. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by CalmOceans  The games are social and don't glorify violence, there is no blood or gore or anything of the sorts in most MMO.
    You'd probably have a bit of trouble coming up with a list of a dozen MMOs where gameplay isn't primarily murder/killing. 

     




    Dozen? How about more than a few? Even Hello Kitty Online has combat.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Dim_sumDim_sum TaipeiPosts: 17Member
  • RhomsRhoms Norfolk, VAPosts: 59Member

    I understand where you are coming from.  A long long time ago, when I was younger, a murder was connected to old school pen and paper D&D.  All these made for TV exposés started coming out about how D&D was bad/evil and so on and so forth.  My parents told me that I had to stop playing because it led to violence and devil worship.  No joke. 

    When murder and violence happen, people want to immediately draw conclusions over why and how.  It just so happens that these conclusions are always drawn from fantasy (I mean something imaginary, not The Lord of the Rings type genre), a hobby that people don't fully understand, and some connection, no matter how remote, to violence. 

    Despite the prevalence of violence on TV and in sports (American football), from my knowledge, no one has ever tried to link watching too much football with violent tendencies in RL.  Instead, media groups pin it on other, sometimes esoteric, hobbies that the general populace doesn't understand (video games, D&D, LARPing, whatever). 

    To bring things full circle, whether it is an MMO or an FPS, people are always going to try and find a cause to an effect.  If a murderer played Hello Kitty Online, Dear Esther, or Angry Birds, someone somewhere will say, "OMG video games led him to do it!!11one  He killed so many pigs in Angry Birds!"  As all of us gamers know, correlation is not causation.

    Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW. Tried: WOW, Rift, SWOTOR. Current: GW2. Future: ESO?
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  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

     

    I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

    Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • RhomsRhoms Norfolk, VAPosts: 59Member
    Originally posted by Muke

    I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

    Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

    Sadly, you'd think people would be able to be a little more thoughtful and professional, but when the general populace references this hobby, it usually comes back down to drawing conclusions too easily (he ate a twinkie!  twinkies made him do it!), drawing generalizations from a few popular examples (a fat gamer getting craned out of his house because he was too fat), and stereotyping (all gamers are nerds).

    Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW. Tried: WOW, Rift, SWOTOR. Current: GW2. Future: ESO?
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  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Durao
    Originally posted by Muke

    I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

    Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

    Sadly, you'd think people would be able to be a little more thoughtful and professional, but when the general populace references this hobby, it usually comes back down to drawing conclusions too easily (he ate a twinkie!  twinkies made him do it!), drawing generalizations from a few popular examples (a fat gamer getting craned out of his house because he was too fat), and stereotyping (all gamers are nerds).

     

    While I do not think a single game has ever 'made someone do it', I think to ignore the continual desensitisation of being exposed to violent (or any other extreme) material is foolish.

    The human brain is like coding really... garbage in, garbage out. Most people eventually become a sum of their exposure.

    I know most people will say 'wait, I'm a strong independent person, I am not affected by games!', but... people are not as immune to this as they like to think, and, well, yes they are. They just don't notice it because it has been happening all their lives.

    I am not saying games make murderers, but I am saying being exposed to hyper violence on an extended basis numbs people to it, and that something like a game can act as a catalyst for someone who is predisposed to certain behaviours (it could even act as a normaliser, making the extreme behaviour more acceptable and therefore more likely).

    To be honest, saying a twinkie made him do it (a joke example I know, but just running with it for now) is no more lazy then saying 'games and other hyper violent media have no effect at all on the humans playing them'.

    It's a more complicated issue then most people choose to recognise to be honest.

  • IAmMMOIAmMMO LondonPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Justin9820

    Video games are in no way associated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.

     

    Edit: Spelling

     The very act of just sitting playing games for hours & days on end does have an affect on the brain and does make people agitated and aggressive. Deep down you know this yourself as a gamer on weeks you've over done it a little, any gamer that says otherwise is full of it, it's just some gamers can really go over broad and screw their mental health by over gaming. Preteens being exposed to violent games does condition the mind towards more aggressive behaviours. Especially with how FPS games are today are portraying real life violence and deaths.

     

     The army is now using virtual combat simulations with equal detail to violence to war and deaths as these games as part of the conditioning soldiers minds for combat. They know this has affect on their mind, yet you say it has no affect on young kids when their brain is at a stage of being easily influenced and conditioned? The COD craze putting fps gaming in the spot light of attention is affecting young minds in the USA and around the world in glorifying violence and gun culture.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Nonsense. If anything we need more gore and violence in MMORPGs to cater to the adult crowd. Right now alot of MMOs feel like kiddy games because they are so censored when it comes to fighting.
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

     

    I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

    Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

    More nonsense. This used to be the case 5+ years ago but now MMORPGs are much more mainstream.

    I personally think this is bad as it has dumbed down the genre but it is what it is.

  • EleazarosEleazaros Neverneverland, WAPosts: 206Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

     

    I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

    Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

    More nonsense. This used to be the case 5+ years ago but now MMORPGs are much more mainstream.

    I personally think this is bad as it has dumbed down the genre but it is what it is.

    In some respects, both are correct ways of looking at it.

    Expressions that still floats around, both in and outside "the community" - "no lifers" and "get a real life".  As in those who play these things heavily don't have real lives and live in fantasy worlds to compensate for it.

    MMORPG was also *THE* focus for showing problems with computer games for quite some time and still is pointed at as a problem area. 

    The old D&D to computers..  Back in the "EverCrack" days on up to modern times.  Hell, College students *STILL* spend times in these games doing "psychological and sociological" studies for their college papers, most still with negative slants to them.

    You'll find their posts across a spectrum of game forums asking for feedback on questionnaires that often are heavily slanted in the direction of "have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes - No".  It's funny to read some of them.

    You will find those who are trying to recast them in a less negative light yet those papers tend to find publishing in "back pages" more than headline style.

    As such, it does get a bit of a negative rap.

     

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,032Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Justin9820
    Video games are in no way assosiated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.

    I don't want to argue that since that would get into politics which isn't allowed on the forum.

    That discussion is in no way political in nature. It would a psychology discussion. Anyway let poeple whining about voilent games. They have done so since the beginning of time and constantly jump on the newest media. 

    Also in the US murder rates have been strangly the same since the 1960s and violent crimes have seen a reduction since the 1990s. I guess the "bad guys" are to busy playing violent games to actually commit an act of voilence. I enjoy the games and really do not care what others make of them. I

  • RhomsRhoms Norfolk, VAPosts: 59Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
     

    While I do not think a single game has ever 'made someone do it', I think to ignore the continual desensitisation of being exposed to violent (or any other extreme) material is foolish.

    The human brain is like coding really... garbage in, garbage out. Most people eventually become a sum of their exposure.

    I know most people will say 'wait, I'm a strong independent person, I am not affected by games!', but... people are not as immune to this as they like to think, and, well, yes they are. They just don't notice it because it has been happening all their lives.

    I am not saying games make murderers, but I am saying being exposed to hyper violence on an extended basis numbs people to it, and that something like a game can act as a catalyst for someone who is predisposed to certain behaviours (it could even act as a normaliser, making the extreme behaviour more acceptable and therefore more likely).

    To be honest, saying a twinkie made him do it (a joke example I know, but just running with it for now) is no more lazy then saying 'games and other hyper violent media have no effect at all on the humans playing them'.

    It's a more complicated issue then most people choose to recognise to be honest.

    That's an excellent point, and I certainly agree.  What I was trying to get at were the knee-jerk reactions that occur without much thought.  I suppose a dose of reflection is needed all around.

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  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
         I agree with you OP..  I too am concerned that the original MMORPG genre is crossing the line into FPS type games..  When I look at games like Call of Duty and Counterstrike, they are all about  " pew pew I win, you lose".  These games when they go live often sell millions of copies and that is just too attractive to the MMO bosses..  Just like the days of Vegas mafia, it's just too much $$$$ opportunity to ignore..  So what we see are devs designing instance PvP, arena type mechanics to go after that PvP esporters.. Then you end up with games like Planetside 2, which is basically nothing more then Call of Duty with a sub..  Just to prove the OP's point..  IF you removed ALL instanced PvP from today's games like WoW, SWTOR, and Rift, etc etc.. how many copies do you think they would of sold and maintained? 
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    The desensitation argument is bunk. People, even children, can tell the difference between real violence and imaginary violence. The three stooges didn't lead to a outbreak of people poking each other's eyes out.  If anything video games reduce violence by providing an outlet for the agressive feelings common in adolescence. The thing overlooked is the murder rate is actually dropping slowly and has been for years. The rate of video games playing has increased. There is neither correlation nor causation. Now I agree we can probably do without the really over the top games like Postal but to blame any MMO is nonsense of the purest form.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LizardoneLizardone baltimore, MDPosts: 93Member
    Too late! it's already happening. MMORPG was the classic genre. What we have now is MMO[add style here].  Heck, some games are not that massive, just single player games with online features. This site is becoming obsolete!
  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by IAmMMO
    Originally posted by Justin9820

    Video games are in no way associated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.

     

    Edit: Spelling

     The very act of just sitting playing games for hours & days on end does have an affect on the brain and does make people agitated and aggressive. Deep down you know this yourself as a gamer on weeks you've over done it a little, any gamer that says otherwise is full of it, it's just some gamers can really go over broad and screw their mental health by over gaming. Preteens being exposed to violent games does condition the mind towards more aggressive behaviours. Especially with how FPS games are today are portraying real life violence and deaths.

     

     The army is now using virtual combat simulations with equal detail to violence to war and deaths as these games as part of the conditioning soldiers minds for combat. They know this has affect on their mind, yet you say it has no affect on young kids when their brain is at a stage of being easily influenced and conditioned? The COD craze putting fps gaming in the spot light of attention is affecting young minds in the USA and around the world in glorifying violence and gun culture.

    Citation needed.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • ShadinShadin StockholmPosts: 294Member

    Total Buiscuit on the subject of video games being accused to be the cause of violence. It's a good video, tbh.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4&feature=youtu.be

     

    Anyway, regardless of OPs beliefs, games being accused of causing violence is hardly restricted to FPS. Mass Effect, for example. Star Craft. There's more that's been accused of being the reason for violent behaviour, but those will serve as examples for now.

     

    Of course, it's total idiocy to believe they would, but hey.. people aren't that smart. If the news, even if it's Fox, tell them that it's the case - then it has to be true! Media, to the average Joe, is writing the truth. Why would they print stuff if it isn't correct? Media, however, is of course out to make money. But I digress - my apologies.

     

    Back on topic! MMOs being associated with FPS or not is irrelevant - it's a game. Ergo, people think it's a cause of violence. It doesn't really matter what it's about. Time and time again World of Warcraft have been part of the focus of media when violence ensues (for example, the blasted mass murderer in Norway). They're already after your precious MMO's, OP. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

     

    EDIT: At that, kids are of course not meant to play violent videogames. When this happen it's the fault of the parents, however. The ESRB ratings are there to prevent this from happening. If you cannot control your child, or you allow your child to play M-rated, or T-rated, games when they are still in their early teens or preteens, you're doing it wrong. 

  • EleazarosEleazaros Neverneverland, WAPosts: 206Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    The desensitation argument is bunk. People, even children, can tell the difference between real violence and imaginary violence. The three stooges didn't lead to a outbreak of people poking each other's eyes out.  If anything video games reduce violence by providing an outlet for the agressive feelings common in adolescence. The thing overlooked is the murder rate is actually dropping slowly and has been for years. The rate of video games playing has increased. There is neither correlation nor causation. Now I agree we can probably do without the really over the top games like Postal but to blame any MMO is nonsense of the purest form.

     

    Just for lulz...

    And yet, we hold written books, non-interactive media, as inciteful of violence and corruptive & destructive attitudes.  This is well documented across decades of research.

    Now take the book, go with "Avatars" in an interactive "play" setting and tell me how those "words on pages" showed one way, yet these "interactive games" don't?

    As I pointed out to a ganker type who said "It's just a GAME!" - "How should we think of people?  Based upon what they must do for a living or what they choose to do for their fun? - You choose to cause as much misery as you possibly can 'for fun' - so what does this say about you as a person?"

    Now when you take the "good guys" who stop corruption and violence and make it so they *CANNOT* stop it (and ride-off into the sunset), while making the "bad guys" able to live forever and cause misery...  You disuade those who would try and stop it -- they can't, while enticing more to the "bad guys" view of self-service and feeding off the misery of others.  "If you can't beat them, join them" - and this is going to improve social interactions in what way? ...

    Not fun stuff to look at but it's there.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Gun manufacturers have more money than games manufacturers

    Want to know why games take the blame, follow the money.
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