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Will the cinematics ever be topped in another MMO?

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  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by grafh
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61 Originally posted by FromHell Originally posted by Sevenstar61 Originally posted by FromHell  

    Am I Bioware? Do I have 300M Dollars to spend on an MMO? Silly proposal, tbh. With a budget like this, even a shimpanzee with a funny hat could create a game that is less static. 
    It's easy to criticize.  It's easy to say oh, if I would have so much money I would do it better. And I say it's BS. :). You would get as much hate about your creation from others as SWTOR is getting from you. Cheers
    Actually FromHell has a very valid point. I Enjoyed what they did with swtor till 50. then the game was trash. I enjoyed my sith inq cutscenes, but they are very static when compared to ffxi cutscenes, which include:

    1) clear facial expressions

    2) different shots. ex: medium shots, long shots, close ups, birds eye shots

    3) camera movement. ex: camera panning left/right, tracking forword/backwards

    4) editing techiniques such as wipes, fades, reaction shots, etc

    When i compare that to starwars, looking at it from a mise en scene perspective, swtor falls flat in comparison. I say this not as a Fan or FF, because i am a fan of both FF and SWTOR, but i say this as someone who doing a logical, and theatrical perspective. Once you take a film class, you never look at things the same again. Even before i took the film class i still enjoyed what FF's cutscenes brought to the table over other games. Even with no voices, and it would always be the same, it still had more life to it that other games CS's

    The 300m they spend was not well spent imo. To much on pointless things like voice acting and those cutscenes, when the rest of the gameplay was terrible. Its like spending 300mil to make a superman movie that was terrible, but people went to see if because it was superman..wait, that already happened..  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2gQo-0VW5c (ok maybe budget wasnt 300m, more like 209mil)


    how is swtor's cut scenes any different from any of their other games?

    people will exaggerate and complain about every single thing about this game and act like it is terrible from the ground up, because that's what they do.

    i ignore opinions like that, that are clearly full of bias.

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Lampasas, TXPosts: 614Member Uncommon

    Voice-overs and Cut-scenes are fine, however a game shouldn't focus on just that.  They should be secondary goals.  Personally, if I was a developer, I'd use Voice-Overs and Cut-Scenes for important parts of the game; like a massive story arc.  Going full bore with them only causes the game to lack in other areas.  We need innovation, not failed WoW-clone #1200.

    I like SWTOR, don't get me wrong, but it could have been done differently. (Preferably, not totally Themepark, and not Level-based Talent-Tree Boring-WoW-Like)

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  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by birdycephon I agree, SWTOR cutscenes are very good.
    Are you kidding? 99% dialogue scenes with static camera is what you call "very good cutscenes" ? It´s always the same gestures of two characters standing and talking.

     

    this is what I call an example for "very good cutscenes" in an MMO

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FljWR8f1470

     


    how many of those are in the game? is their 100's of cut scenes? is their a cut scene when you talk to every single NPC?

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
         I hope I never see cinamatics again..  I do NOT play subscription based mmorpgs to watch some cheesy pre-written cartoon cinamatics.. If I wanted that I'd go play KoTOR, Dragon Age, or Skyrim..  I pay to play to experience a dynamic fantasy world such as my days with pen and paper w/ dice..  NOT here to relive some child's story book with a keyboard.. No thanks..
  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member

    Happy to see you fixed your sig, Sevenstar.

     

    Anyway, and I realize this is subjective, I believe that TSW's cutscenes blew TOR out of the water.  Mute PC and all.

    I will say that I enjoyed the bounty hunter story in TOR during my short stay.  But the most memorable cutscenes definately belong to TSW.

    So as to the original question, I believe they already have been.

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  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Posts: 846Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    I agree, SWTOR cutscenes are very good.

    Are you kidding? 99% dialogue scenes with static camera is what you call "very good cutscenes" ? It´s always the same gestures of two characters standing and talking.

     

    this is what I call an example for "very good cutscenes" in an MMO

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FljWR8f1470

     

    Personal taste and all that. I thought this was utter tripe. "drunkeness without drinking....?"

  • ChtugaChtuga OsloPosts: 113Member

    I think The Secret World has really good cutscenes! Some of the quests cutscenes are just amazing

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    SWToR has decent cutscenes, but the interactivity feels forced. For example:

    A: Says X.

    You get a choice of saying:

    1. Agree

    2. Be against

    3. Insult

    A: Says Y no matter what your choice was.

    That only gets noticeable if you repeat conversations, but it really annoyed me. To put it in other words, the beginning and the end of conversations in most cases is the same. What you do inbetween has no effect. You can go ahead and insult your superiors all you like, they will just shrug it off.

     

    That being said the op was asking about the cinematics, and they are truly awesome. I expect Blizzard will eventually surpass them with their next MMO, which will hopefully contain alot of them.

    And yes im one of those getting annoyed with frequent cutscenes, but cinematics are a whole different thing, include as much of those as you want :D.

     

    P.S.: Im not sure SWToRs cutscenes for every little thing are the way to go. There is a reason why SMS are more popular than video calls. Personally i think only the beginning of questchains should be a cutscene(but a bigger, more elaborate one instead) and all the small steps inbetween be done via text messaging or some little video in the upper left corner narrating what to be done next. Using a cutscene to essentially say "Thanks, now fetch me XY" is a waste imho.

  • ChtugaChtuga OsloPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by FromHell

    Originally posted by birdycephon I agree, SWTOR cutscenes are very good.
    Are you kidding? 99% dialogue scenes with static camera is what you call "very good cutscenes" ? It´s always the same gestures of two characters standing and talking.

     

     

    this is what I call an example for "very good cutscenes" in an MMO

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FljWR8f1470

     


     

    how many of those are in the game? is their 100's of cut scenes? is their a cut scene when you talk to every single NPC?

    I belive there is hundreds of cutscenes yes. I imagine just the latest patch added 10-15 or more. The size varies ofcourse as in every game, but there are just tons of good cutscenes to watch if you like them. If I would guess id say there was almost 100 cutscenes in just the first zone if you take all the quests. 

    Try it out and see for yourself

  • ZalmonZalmon Bloomington, INPosts: 319Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    All these videos only prove one thing, Bioware´s cutscene director can´t even move a camera.

    By the way the editing and cutting from one shot to the next is crazy, often misleading and breaks basic rules of how to work with camera angles quite too often. And yes I know what I´m talking about, I´m working with TV- and music video material, eight hours every day. 

    SWTOR:

    Every. Freakin. Shot. Is. STATIC. NO. CAMERA. MOVEMENT.

    Funny how they brag about the whole "fourth pillar storytelling" and think they could get away with these lame static cutscenes.

    There is only ONE way to do it worse, and that is the GW2 way.

     

    Anyway, "static" is the one word which best describes SWTOR. Static questing, static cutscenes, static planets, static loading screens, static environmental lighting. I didn´t find anything "dynamic" about this game, sadly.

    And i am Steven Spielberg. Best part of internet is we can claim whatever we like. So when your made up 99% statistics didn't pan out you come back with this BS.

    I think you are getting a tad desperate here. I doubt you even know what static means. WHati find most ironic is that you love pointing fingers at GW2 fans because they are over zealous. Have you ever seen your posts?

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by Zalmon
    Originally posted by FromHell

    All these videos only prove one thing, Bioware´s cutscene director can´t even move a camera.

    By the way the editing and cutting from one shot to the next is crazy, often misleading and breaks basic rules of how to work with camera angles quite too often. And yes I know what I´m talking about, I´m working with TV- and music video material, eight hours every day. 

    SWTOR:

    Every. Freakin. Shot. Is. STATIC. NO. CAMERA. MOVEMENT.

    Funny how they brag about the whole "fourth pillar storytelling" and think they could get away with these lame static cutscenes.

    There is only ONE way to do it worse, and that is the GW2 way.

     

    Anyway, "static" is the one word which best describes SWTOR. Static questing, static cutscenes, static planets, static loading screens, static environmental lighting. I didn´t find anything "dynamic" about this game, sadly.

    And i am Steven Spielberg. Best part of internet is we can claim whatever we like. So when your made up 99% statistics didn't pan out you come back with this BS.

    I think you are getting a tad desperate here. I doubt you even know what static means. WHati find most ironic is that you love pointing fingers at GW2 fans because they are over zealous. Have you ever seen your posts?

    Hmm he is right on the "no camera movement" thing though. Im currently playing the game and the camera instantly jumps from one angle to the next, there really is no "movement". But it isn't something i would notice without it being pointed out i guess ... TSW on the other hand has more ... well its more like what you see in TV. The camera apparently flying around and to show off enviroment and characters. The characters in ToR usually don't move around a lot, mostly its just a closeup of someones face blabbering away. TSW on the other hand has more problems with awkward animations and bad lip sync(or nonmoving lips at all).

    Personally i think TSW does alot more than SWTOR(well minus the mute char), but doesn't do it as well. SWToR is a little less fancy, but looks really good while doing it.

     

    Edit: Also TSW has horrible UI at large resolutions, its killing the game for me. ToR looks brilliant and texts are very crisp.

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GwapoJosh
    I hope not.. All that insane amount of money for a few minute cinematic could be used towards the actual game. An area that Swtor badly needed work on.

    Nailed it. +1

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • FinitFinit Smithsburg, MDPosts: 145Member

    Maybe the revamped Final Fantasy XIV.  I mean just check out this trailer.  It is single-handedly the best trailer I have ever seen for any game or movie.

     

    My Guild Wars 2 Blog can be found here: Divinity's Reach

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by Finit

    Maybe the revamped Final Fantasy XIV.  I mean just check out this trailer.  It is single-handedly the best trailer I have ever seen for any game or movie.

     

    Its awesome, but i bring these contenders:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Qck-7kBuw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8gHQM9-AJk

     

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Rocketeer
    Originally posted by Finit

    Maybe the revamped Final Fantasy XIV.  I mean just check out this trailer.  It is single-handedly the best trailer I have ever seen for any game or movie.

     

    Its awesome, but i bring these contenders:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Qck-7kBuw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8gHQM9-AJk

     

    /facepalm

    sure, throw in some pre-rendered CGI trailers. That fits into the discussion...

    Have you seen anything ingame in SWTOR like their awesome marketing pre-release CGI trailers?

    Hint: NO

    They didn´t even render some space ship departurs for the handful of available ships, it´s all done in their crappy custom engine, with lots of cuts and zero camera movement.

    Dull. Super DULL. How anyone can find the SWTOR cutscenes "well done" has absolutely no clue whatsoever.

    /thread

     

     

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  • grafhgrafh chicago, ILPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    @baphamet

    I think your taking this far to personal and defensive. granted cinematics was what the op was talking about but we started talking about cutscenes. I know how bioware did cutscenes in other games is no different than swtor. i am simply saying that they are not the best, nor would they be hard to topple, because they are north worth toppling when compared to other games. Although that is a matter of opinion, its mine to make. do you really think im exaggerating about the game? hardly. do i make it a mission to bash this game on every thread thats created? not at all. Im trying to figure out what i said that was so critical that would be worthy of my input being ignored?

    i feel this is fact, not opinion, that the money they spent on cutscenes and voiceovers and cinematics and ad campaigns could have been used to fine tune the game to produce a much better product.
  • KniknaxKniknax LeicesterPosts: 567Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    When I first played SWTOR in the stress test I was actually more annoyed by the cutscenes than entertained.

    I was in the veteran MMO player mentality of hauling ass through everything...I was mashing the spacebar just to get another chunk of exp, another skill, another talent point.

    Maybe it's because I've got multiple level 50s but now I've slowed way down when I play through the levels.  I even turned off captions just to get more into the storylines.

    Short answer, yes, of course they will be topped one day.

    Long answer, Yes, with the speed of technology changes, of course they will be topped one day. Maybe not tomorrow, but one day. Thats how graphics work. I sincerely hope we arent stuck with this generation of graphics for the next 50 years, cos if we are, my latest GFX card will have been wasted ;)

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  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    SWTOR have already been topped by TSW, Camera work is clearly better, Story telling is better, Character depth it blows SWTOR out of the water.

     

    As for the player mute, I love that they did that. As soon as the Developers add dialouge for the character its creates their personality. By not talking at all our personality for our characters stays with whatever we chose it to be. Then again this only really applies to RPers.

    Heres Best way to explain it, I create a Very straight forward no nonsense Character, However as soon as they enter the cutscene they are now Quiping and cracking jokes at with the NPC.

    Because i can.
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  • SilmapelikoneSilmapelikone Posts: 147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rayshe

    As for the player mute, I love that they did that. As soon as the Developers add dialouge for the character its creates their personality. By not talking at all our personality for our characters stays with whatever we chose it to be. Then again this only really applies to RPers.

     

    I agree. Your own imagination fills the blanks and makes the character you play a living person. In the same way when you are reading a good book. One and only game where I was thinking my character's background inside out - what he did in life, his motivations in general and some other really heavy sh*t - was surprise surprise EVE Online. The whole Character Sheet section in that game makes me remember my childhood pen and paper rpg sessions.

  • ZalmonZalmon Bloomington, INPosts: 319Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Rocketeer
    Originally posted by Finit

    Maybe the revamped Final Fantasy XIV.  I mean just check out this trailer.  It is single-handedly the best trailer I have ever seen for any game or movie.

     

    Its awesome, but i bring these contenders:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Qck-7kBuw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8gHQM9-AJk

     

    /facepalm

    sure, throw in some pre-rendered CGI trailers. That fits into the discussion...

    Have you seen anything ingame in SWTOR like their awesome marketing pre-release CGI trailers?

    Hint: NO

    They didn´t even render some space ship departurs for the handful of available ships, it´s all done in their crappy custom engine, with lots of cuts and zero camera movement.

    Dull. Super DULL. How anyone can find the SWTOR cutscenes "well done" has absolutely no clue whatsoever.

    /thread

     

     

    Its not like you gave us some a deep understanding of what and how it should be. And no you work in media 8 hours day is something i am not buying. It is interesting how conveniently people are always working in the profession which is related to on going discussion...which they so desperately want to win but can not.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Rocketeer
    Originally posted by Finit

    Maybe the revamped Final Fantasy XIV.  I mean just check out this trailer.  It is single-handedly the best trailer I have ever seen for any game or movie.

     

    Its awesome, but i bring these contenders:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Qck-7kBuw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8gHQM9-AJk

     

    /facepalm

    sure, throw in some pre-rendered CGI trailers. That fits into the discussion...

    Have you seen anything ingame in SWTOR like their awesome marketing pre-release CGI trailers?

    Hint: NO

    They didn´t even render some space ship departurs for the handful of available ships, it´s all done in their crappy custom engine, with lots of cuts and zero camera movement.

    Dull. Super DULL. How anyone can find the SWTOR cutscenes "well done" has absolutely no clue whatsoever.

    /thread

     

     

    WTF are you talking about? Try reading what you quote and pick your face out of the crap it landed in. I replied in return to a post of a FF14 cinematic in kind.

  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon

    Cutscenes from Defiance look very nice,  very Mass Effect-ish. Almost as if old Bioware made them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gEDxcnXl60&feature=player_detailpage#t=448s

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    PS. Karteli... if you ever consider playing SWTOR again maybe we would level some toons together... I bet it would be plenty of fun LOL....

    I *love* releplaying in Star Wars though.  I play various RP servers, sometimes other types if and when it gets/got boring, but not as commonly.

     

    If anyone ever did roleplaying at any time in their life, Star Wars is the place to do it, lol :-)

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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Zalmon
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by Rocketeer
    Originally posted by Finit

    Maybe the revamped Final Fantasy XIV.  I mean just check out this trailer.  It is single-handedly the best trailer I have ever seen for any game or movie.

     

    Its awesome, but i bring these contenders:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Qck-7kBuw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8gHQM9-AJk

     

    /facepalm

    sure, throw in some pre-rendered CGI trailers. That fits into the discussion...

    Have you seen anything ingame in SWTOR like their awesome marketing pre-release CGI trailers?

    Hint: NO

    They didn´t even render some space ship departurs for the handful of available ships, it´s all done in their crappy custom engine, with lots of cuts and zero camera movement.

    Dull. Super DULL. How anyone can find the SWTOR cutscenes "well done" has absolutely no clue whatsoever.

    /thread

     

     

    Its not like you gave us some a deep understanding of what and how it should be. And no you work in media 8 hours day is something i am not buying. It is interesting how conveniently people are always working in the profession which is related to on going discussion...which they so desperately want to win but can not.

    [mod edit]

    Ever thought about people having an opinion about something because they have expert knowledge about that field of work, therefore joining a discussion on a topic?

    yeah what do I care if you are "buying" what I said, it´s meaningless to me, random person.

    Even a consumer I can state that the cutscenes are lame, badly directed and dull. No camera movement in cutscenes of a 200 million $ Star Wars game is an insult. And whoever is editing together this cutscenes is an amateur.

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
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  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    This is completely ridiculous, just checked out some of the "said to be better than before" Makeb cinematics on youtube, and AGAIN BW didn´t even manage to move the camera a SINGLE time, every shot is static, cut-cut-cut, again. What a let down.

    What in Yodas name is the problem, the engine? The cutscene director?

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


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    The Return of ELITE !
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