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MMOs with a buff/debuff role

Smith6079Smith6079 Member Posts: 3
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

Hello folks.  As a refugee from the recently defunct City of Heroes, I'm very interested in finding another game (a) that has a player class that focuses (partly or primarily) on providing group buffs and/or enemy debuffs, and (b) where such a class is either needed or at least considered desirable for basic group content and beyond. 

It seems that most games that allow buffer/debuffer roles in their group makeup ultimately render these roles irrelevent and undesirable because the other roles manage to get by fine without the extra support, and an extra DPS or healer ultimately provides more utility than the guy who buffs or debuffs.  I'm not complaining about these games, mind you.  I'm simply asking if there are games out there that do manage to maintain a need for buffs/debuffs even in the context of ubergeared tanks, healers and DPSers.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.  Thanks in advance.

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Comments

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Sounds like you have to get back to some old school games like DAoC, EQ or Vanguard. Buff classes has gone the way of the Dodo just like crowd control classes sadly
  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 2,107
    I honestly cant think of a modern MMO that has a debuff or buff role. Last game I played that had that option was DAOC, as far as I can remember at least....
  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768
    hmm. closest thing i can think of to a buff/debuff role would be a Chanter in Aion.   they have a few debuff's like attack speed down. and a lot of buffs / off heals.  mixed with some dps... other then that, back towards ffxi with a few classes there (bard,rdm so on)
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,848

    Rift has Support souls and thats probably as close you will get in the modern age.


    But dont expect groups to beat down your door clamoring for you. Theres a reason most other MMOs have ditched the "Buff/Debuff" class role.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    The Enchanter, Cleric, Druid, Bard and Shaman classes in EverQuest.  The Chanter class in Aion.  The Druid, Cleric, Friar, Bard, Minstrel and Skald in Dark Age of Camelot.  The Bard, Cleric, Druid, Blood Mage, and Shaman in Vanguard.  Can't really think of any modern games that focus on buffing / debuffing classes.

    image
  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030
    The Burglar in LotRO is a buff/debuff class when specced and palyed properly.Or ti was last tiem I palyed before it went F2P
  • IzikIzik Member Posts: 111

    Closest thing I can think of is Lotro.

    Burglar is a Debuff/Group utility + Dps class. Captain is a Buff/Off-tank class.

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Member UncommonPosts: 1,686

    EQ2. Bards - Troubadours or Dirges. Hands down.

     

    Troubadours:

    Debuffs

    Encounter Debuffs

    Constant Group Offense Buffs

    Short Group Offense Buff

    Short Single Target General Buff

    Constant Group General Buffs

    Constant Group Defense Buffs

    Constant Raid Defense Buffs

    Hate Control

    Constant Self General Buffs

    • Stealth: Shroud (1)
    • Prevent AOE Melee/Ranged Attack: Singular Focus (1)
    • +AGI + Elemental, Arcane, Noxious mitigation, + base avoidance and mental damage on taking melee/spell damage proc: Daelis' Dance of Blades (13)

    Constant Self Epic Buff

    Misc

     
    Dirge

    Debuffs

    Daze

    Stun

    Fear

    Interrupt

    Hate Control

    Self Buffs

    Single Target Buffs

    Group Buffs

    Short Duration Single Target Buffs

    Short Duration Group Buffs

    Resurrection

    Misc

     
     


    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • ZarriyaZarriya Member UncommonPosts: 446
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    EQ2. Bards - Troubadours or Dirges. Hands down.

    also enchanters!

     

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Member UncommonPosts: 1,686
    Originally posted by Zarriya
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61
    EQ2. Bards - Troubadours or Dirges. Hands down.

    also enchanters!

     

    Of course. Most of classes have buffs/debuffs too but not in that numbers.

     

    Coercer

     

    Crowd Control

    Pet

    Power

    Hate Control

    • Reduce Hate vs Encounter/Teleport Encounter: Blink (15)

    Dispel

    Group Buffs

    Single Target Buffs

     
    Illusionist
     

    Mesmerize

    Stun/Stifle/Root

    Threat Management

    • Hate Reduction/Teleport: Blink (15)
    • Hate Wipe/Limited Pets: Illusory Allies (55)
    • Minor Hate Wipe/Target Teleport: Phase (65)

    Power Management

    Persistant Buffs

    Temporary Buffs

    Melee Skill Debuff

    Specialty

    Invisibility

    Vision

     


    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Rift has Support souls and thats probably as close you will get in the modern age.


    But dont expect groups to beat down your door clamoring for you. Theres a reason most other MMOs have ditched the "Buff/Debuff" class role.

    And what is that reason exactly?

    Debuffer role has always been my favorite.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • MMOdad72MMOdad72 Member Posts: 93
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Rift has Support souls and thats probably as close you will get in the modern age.


    But dont expect groups to beat down your door clamoring for you. Theres a reason most other MMOs have ditched the "Buff/Debuff" class role.

    And what is that reason exactly?

    Debuffer role has always been my favorite.

     

    Agreed , I liked class roles of the sort. Enjoyed being both a support and mez/cc type character many times over the years.

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Member UncommonPosts: 960
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Rift has Support souls and thats probably as close you will get in the modern age.


    But dont expect groups to beat down your door clamoring for you. Theres a reason most other MMOs have ditched the "Buff/Debuff" class role.

    And what is that reason exactly?

    Debuffer role has always been my favorite.

    The primary reason would be that they dumbed down their game. It is a lot harder for them to create encounters with classes that excel at crowd control and debuffing.

  • Smith6079Smith6079 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks very much for the replies so far, folks!
  • NevulusNevulus Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    my hands-down favorite buff/debuff classes have been eq2 troub/dirge 
  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222
    Every game I play now I look for the buff/debuff/cc role. Unfortunately I'm running into a bunch games lately with 3 second fears and 4 second cc max...GD PvP balance. What I would give for a modern mmo that didn't hamstring itself in the name of PvP balance. Age of wushu claims to haves debuff and cc type classes...we will see.
  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Every game I play now I look for the buff/debuff/cc role. Unfortunately I'm running into a bunch games lately with 3 second fears and 4 second cc max...GD PvP balance. What I would give for a modern mmo that didn't hamstring itself in the name of PvP balance. Age of wushu claims to haves debuff and cc type classes...we will see.

    Actually Age of Wushu claims to have "No classes or levels".

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Rift has Support souls and thats probably as close you will get in the modern age.


    But dont expect groups to beat down your door clamoring for you. Theres a reason most other MMOs have ditched the "Buff/Debuff" class role.

     

    When looking at classes in Aion, a player written document described the same thing about their Enchanter class.  Support classes are often seen as non-essential in tank-n-spank combat.

     

    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • Storman1977Storman1977 Member Posts: 207
    DDO has the bard as a buff/debuff class.  Also, there are wizards and sorcerors that specialize in buffing/debuffing and crowd control in DDO.
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,006
    Traubator / dirge, chants etc which has already been posted. EQ2, Vg, EQ1 pretty much is the only options out there. AoE freeeze, mez or w/e other form of cc has been replaced by tanks / heals these days.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852
         I agree with many of the early posters.. If you are looking for roles that are NOT part of the exclusive holy trinity, you'll have to go back to older games such as EQ, Vanguard, DaOC, ect ect..  Devs have dumbed down classes to a homoganized 3.. Roles such as crowd control, buff, debuff, pulling etc are not calculated in today's "LFD" or "LFR" mechanics..  Tis a shame because I enjoyed those roles as much as any of the holy trinity  we have today, plus you have numberous hybrid options.. As much as sheep today feel games have so many options in classes and roles, they really don't..  SWTOR and Rift are perfect examples of limited class roles, but use multiple graphics and name changes to fool you..  When was the last time we saw a game that allowed "kiting" or "fear" kiting?  When was the last time we saw a game that allowed invisibility and group invis? or levitation?  porting? evacing? ..   Last time I played a game that had such a VAST spectrum of skills and spells was EQ..   Today's classes are child's play..  Advanced Dungeon's and Dragons would of never gotten off the ground if they were hamstringed like today's classes.. 
  • CernanCernan Member UncommonPosts: 360

    I feel you OP.  My favorite classes in CoH were the Storm and Kinetic  Defenders.  I've played most modern mmos, and while some while have classes with debuffs they are never really specialized.  Those classes are mostly better off just dealing straight up dps.

     

    The Minstrel (buffer/healer) and Burlgar (debuffer/DPS) are both very fun classes to play in LOTRO.  The minstrel is probably one of the most fun healers I have ever played in any mmo.  There is also the Loremaster who has some CC, but he tends to focus a little more on dps.

     

    Rift has a couple buff classes, Archon and Bard.  The Archon is a mage who leeches power/speed/str/health from enemies in order to buff allies. The Bard is mostly a healer with a few buffs that has to be constantly reapplied.   However, both classes are mostly only used in Raids and even then you don't need multiples.  The Archon is the closest thing to what you are looking for.

     

    Otherwise I think you are going to have to go back to older games like EQ, EQ2, DAoC.

     

     

  • BanaghranBanaghran Member Posts: 869

    The "support" area is the most depressive and dark place to talk about regarding mmorpgs.

    Every single problem the genre battled and battles with is aplicable in its destruction, class balance, hybrids vs pures, solo vs group, pvp vs pve, accessibility vs specialisation, ranged vs meelee...

    As far a the playstyle in a modern game, the last time i had a fun time is as a bard in rift, but ofcourse, in the spirit of accessibility, the buffs and healing that made it interesting while leveling became nearly meaningless later on...

    Dunno if anything has changed since i left.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    GW1 made great use of varying buff roles both offensive and defensive, but debuff roles were often part-time roles or only found in PvP team builds.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • gordiflugordiflu Member UncommonPosts: 757
    Originally posted by Cernan

     

    The Minstrel (buffer/healer) and Burlgar (debuffer/DPS) are both very fun classes to play in LOTRO.  The minstrel is probably one of the most fun healers I have ever played in any mmo.  There is also the Loremaster who has some CC, but he tends to focus a little more on dps.

     

     

     

     

    The buffer/healer role would belong to Captain in this game, with Minstrel beeing a pure healer with some buffing capabilities.

    A good Loremaster is king of crowd control and debuffing. Why so many have gone now DPS wannabe says a lot about the dumbification of the game.

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