Even after all the horrible PR, EA says: "[Lifeday items] are limited time offers, so now is the tim

Karteli · December 2012

EA continually keeps stating how they are constantly listening to feedback ..... BUT ...

In EA's latest video trailer (F2P episode #3 posted today), the spokesperson reveals just how little they are concerned with feedback, from customers or the press, as EA continues to push cash-shop items: "[Lifeday items] are limited time offers, so now is the time to jump In." ... Some fireworks for $3, robes $9, vehicle with christmas lights $18, holotree $6 .. orbs .. bombs, stuff with animations, few bucks here, few bucks there ... everything .. money money money $ $ $, give us money, lol.

Are players really going to jump in and start playing SWTOR just to use the cash-shop? EA seems so far removed from what players want.

If that isn't insulting enough, there are no in-game events (again) this year for Life Day, as many already know. No presents, freebies, or earned rewards this year kids, buy your own gifts to give yourself!

Free-to-Play Preview Episode 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0hofmN4tpQ

Perhaps interesting in the video:

There is still no love for actual "free" players in this F2P game, but those who spend on the cashshop to become "preferred" customers will soon get 6 character slots instead of 2. F2P games like Aion have no such character slot limitations, incidentally - everyone receives 8 slots - which is an example of F2P done correctly.

thinktank001 · December 2012

Originally posted by Karteli

There is still no love for actual "free" players in this F2P game, but those who spend on the cashshop to become "preferred" customers will soon get 6 character slots instead of 2. F2P games like Aion have no such character slot limitations, incidentally - everyone receives 8 slots - which is an example of F2P done correctly.

There really isn't any right or wrong way to use the P2W business model. I am pretty sure there is someone sitting in front of their computer complaining about Aions cash shop too. We all have our different opinions about what is ok in a cash shop and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Myria · December 2012

Originally posted by Karteli

There is still no love for actual "free" players in this F2P game, but those who spend on the cashshop to become "preferred" customers will soon get 6 character slots instead of 2.

You mean Free To Play Isn't "Free" and companies focus on paying customers?

Who knew?

Almost as shocking as the notion that endless psychotic rants on irrelevant gaming websites might not constitute "horrible PR" in any meaningful sense.

Almost.

GwapoJosh · December 2012

It's pretty sad.. Most mmos give at least a little something for free like little events and stuff. It's a nice way to say thanks to the community. This is definitely the greediest Christmas slap to the balls I've ever seen.

Karteli · December 2012

Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by Karteli

There is still no love for actual "free" players in this F2P game, but those who spend on the cashshop to become "preferred" customers will soon get 6 character slots instead of 2.

You mean Free To Play Isn't "Free" and companies focus on paying customers?

Who knew?

Almost as shocking as the notion that endless psychotic rants on irrelevant gaming websites might not constitute "horrible PR" in any meaningful sense.

Almost.

There is little perceived value in what is being offered. You omitted Aion from that quote, but their F2P game does not have any restrictions, and the cash shop is a good model for other games to strive toward. SWTOR wouldn't have many complaints if they had competent folks in charge of monetization vs. freebies.

Psycotic rants? Irrelevant gaming websites? What you mean is anything other than the official SWTOR forums, which is filled with EA shills?

Ah yes, lets take Gamebreakers The Republic where host Gary Ganon and a rep from Darthhater (Justin) and a rep from Massively (Larry, author of the hyperspace beacon column) rip EA a new one about their cash shop and P2W model.

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/video-game-shows/out-of-control/

But I guess such fans are psychotic according to you, and their websites like Darthhater are irrelevant gaming websites? .. alrighty then, thanks for your ... input.

asmkm22 · December 2012

Give it time, and they'll crash and burn. Will probably be another round of layoffs in a few months.

ControlBlue · December 2012

SWTOR: Your day-to-day destination for drama!! Delivery guaranteed!

At leat one time they are doing good, never have been that entertained watching a company makes the wrong calls again and again!

cronius77 · December 2012

yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

hikaru77 · December 2012

Originally posted by asmkm22
Give it time, and they'll crash and burn. Will probably be another round of layoffs in a few months.

So let me see, they have more people playing, more subs and earning an insane amount of money with the new F2P model. Yes, you are right, the game will crash and burn in a few months.

cronius77 · December 2012

Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by asmkm22
Give it time, and they'll crash and burn. Will probably be another round of layoffs in a few months.

So let me see, they have more people playing, more subs and earning an insane amount of money with the new F2P model. Yes, you are right, the game will crash and burn in a few months.

they are by no means making more money then they did months ago before everyone left. They might of gotten a surge from players who are bored to death of other games but as a player who just quit about two weeks ago , i can tell you right now that surge is far from all that huge on the few servers they have left anyways out of the 100s. Also how many are actually buying stuff in game ? This is all speculation of course but so is what you just said also... just saying.....

Sevenstar61 · December 2012

Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

Karteli · December 2012

Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

What if Jeff Hickman didn't get fired then, but just got severely demoted, down to a call center or something. He'd be great on the phone, since he's a very convincing speaker.

He would still have a job, and everyone gets to keep their karma? :-)

Crazy_Stick · December 2012

I can honestly say that if SWTOR had went buy to play rather than creating such a silly free to play model with a cash shop where you have to purchase parts of the original UI (hotbars) then I would actually support them. As it is... Well, it's like watching NASCAR and feeling guilty because you know you are only tuning in to see the car crashes.

Sevenstar61 · December 2012

Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

What if Jeff Hickman didn't get fired then, but just got severely demoted, down to a call center or something. He'd be great on the phone, since he's a very convincing speaker.

He would still have a job, and everyone gets to keep their karma? :-)

I thing we can negotiate here :P

cronius77 · December 2012

Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

first off im not some new age hippie that belives in that sort of mess nor will you ever convince me to . Second just because you are in love with the game no matter how much they screw over just about everyone doesnt mean that i do not have a right to post what i feel like needs to be done. If you want the truth i started my career in the game industry and left about 5 years ago and will NEVER EVER go back into it because of guys like jeff hickman and rob denton. Game companies regardless of what your personal love for this game need to be held to a standard the same as any hotel restuarant store etc and they are not. They are constantly forgiven for every single mistake no matter how large . Then on top of that the same exact idiots like Hickman are recycled back into the industry when one of their buddies makes a new company or gets promoted on some new studio and the same exact mentality and mistakes are made over and over again in a endless cycle as you have seen for the last what 8 years now?

I may sound harsh but let me tell you from experience the mmorpg industry is run period just like any shipyard or brewery in the USA , its all family members and idiots who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Just like matt witter mr hickmans nephew who was laid off from live team at mythic is now one of the lead devs at Anet because of mr hickman and look at how many months of not fixing issues with world vs world ? Stop giving these guys excuses and free passes when they screw things up royally they do not deserve it , in fact i think the local teenager at the drive thru at burger king should get more of a free pass than these guys .

I want to see better games released like the old days of asherons call 2 DAOC EQ heck even wow vanilla , but as long as these same guys are at the helms in games nothing will ever change. Wait til ESO gets here and see the hate that gets when you have another outspoken mythic know it all dev ruining that game.

Sevenstar61 · December 2012

Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

first off im not some new age hippie that belives in that sort of mess nor will you ever convince me to . Second just because you are in love with the game no matter how much they screw over just about everyone doesnt mean that i do not have a right to post what i feel like needs to be done. If you want the truth i started my career in the game industry and left about 5 years ago and will NEVER EVER go back into it because of guys like jeff hickman and rob denton. Game companies regardless of what your personal love for this game need to be held to a standard the same as any hotel restuarant store etc and they are not. They are constantly forgiven for every single mistake no matter how large . Then on top of that the same exact idiots like Hickman are recycled back into the industry when one of their buddies makes a new company or gets promoted on some new studio and the same exact mentality and mistakes are made over and over again in a endless cycle as you have seen for the last what 8 years now?

I may sound harsh but let me tell you from experience the mmorpg industry is run period just like any shipyard or brewery in the USA , its all family members and idiots who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Just like matt witter mr hickmans nephew who was laid off from live team at mythic is now one of the lead devs at Anet because of mr hickman and look at how many months of not fixing issues with world vs world ? Stop giving these guys excuses and free passes when they screw things up royally they do not deserve it , in fact i think the local teenager at the drive thru at burger king should get more of a free pass than these guys .

I want to see better games released like the old days of asherons call 2 DAOC EQ heck even wow vanilla , but as long as these same guys are at the helms in games nothing will ever change. Wait til ESO gets here and see the hate that gets when you have another outspoken mythic know it all dev ruining that game.

From my perspective:

- I love the game and enjoy it.

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play in June or July, as appreciation - how many MMOs in history ever did it?

- altough they initially promissed the update as free - things change as game did not perform as EA expected. Other games have changes too... see TSW - B2P.

- the price of this expansion is very cheap for subscribers.

I do not see that they actually rip me off on every corner, you know? I got so far probably around I don't know 1500 h of play if not more, totally worth it.

Nevulus · December 2012

Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by Karteli

There is still no love for actual "free" players in this F2P game, but those who spend on the cashshop to become "preferred" customers will soon get 6 character slots instead of 2.

You mean Free To Play Isn't "Free" and companies focus on paying customers?

Who knew?

Almost as shocking as the notion that endless psychotic rants on irrelevant gaming websites might not constitute "horrible PR" in any meaningful sense.

Almost.

Epic reply.

"Generation Me": they want everything handed to them, no work, no price. It's not until they are the ones creating a product that they soon figure out servers & employees do not work solely on hopes & dreams.

jtcgs · December 2012

Originally posted by thinktank001
There really isn't any right or wrong way to use the P2W business model.

Nexon and their 1.2 billion dollars worth of profits mostly from F2P game cash shops will disagree with you very HIGHLY. They have made more profits from F2P games than Turbine and Funcoms combined revenue. note I said their REVENUE, not their profit.

Nexon is now the second largest gaming company on the planet, only EA makes a larger profit, and its not by much. Asia knows how to do F2P, and they are making far more with games that are downright HORRIBLE.

If only a good gaming company would remove their heads from their corporate rectums and see where the real money is...and they should know better. You dont treat potential new CUSTOMERS differently from old CUSTOMERS...and freemiums create a customer class system where new players are 2nd class players...the idea is...well, its laughable.

Sevenstar61 · December 2012

Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by thinktank001
There really isn't any right or wrong way to use the P2W business model.

Nexon and their 1.2 billion dollars worth of profits mostly from F2P game cash shops will disagree with you very HIGHLY. They have made more profits from F2P games than Turbine and Funcoms combined revenue. note I said their REVENUE, not their profit.

Nexon is now the second largest gaming company on the planet, only EA makes a larger profit, and its not by much. Asia knows how to do F2P, and they are making far more with games that are downright HORRIBLE.

If only a good gaming company would remove their heads from their corporate rectums and see where the real money is...and they should know better. You dont treat potential new CUSTOMERS differently from old CUSTOMERS...and freemiums create a customer class system where new players are 2nd class players...the idea is...well, its laughable.

But ... in a game that has still P2P subscription model, you cannot give tout everything for F2P players as you will loose all subs.... why to sub.. if you can have everything the same for free.

jtcgs · December 2012

Originally posted by Sevenstar61
From my perspective:

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play in June or July, as appreciation - how many MMOs in history ever did it?

From my perspective:

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play at a time players were leaving in MASS and they needed a stop gap to stem people leaving in hope the upcoming massive greatest update in the whole of history, a UI upgrade, would hold them longer.

- several games gave free months and rewards for those that stayed...all were hurting massively. Example: Anarchy Online gave players free ships/mounts and a ton of other items for sticking with them. Sure it was only around 8-9,000 players out of the 100k+ that left the game after what was then the worst launch in history...but you get the idea.

Look, its GREAT that you like the game. but you liking the game does not mean that you need to keep acting like nothing is wrong or that the company does everything right. SWTOR failed to keep the majority of its players for a REASON. Most people working on the game got FIRED for a reason...and was replaced by people who then got FIRED for a reason...and yes, it did drop the subscription for a REASON.

The reason? It isnt good enough to make the kind of money it could have.

ObiClownobi · December 2012

Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

first off im not some new age hippie that belives in that sort of mess nor will you ever convince me to . Second just because you are in love with the game no matter how much they screw over just about everyone doesnt mean that i do not have a right to post what i feel like needs to be done. If you want the truth i started my career in the game industry and left about 5 years ago and will NEVER EVER go back into it because of guys like jeff hickman and rob denton. Game companies regardless of what your personal love for this game need to be held to a standard the same as any hotel restuarant store etc and they are not. They are constantly forgiven for every single mistake no matter how large . Then on top of that the same exact idiots like Hickman are recycled back into the industry when one of their buddies makes a new company or gets promoted on some new studio and the same exact mentality and mistakes are made over and over again in a endless cycle as you have seen for the last what 8 years now?

I may sound harsh but let me tell you from experience the mmorpg industry is run period just like any shipyard or brewery in the USA , its all family members and idiots who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Just like matt witter mr hickmans nephew who was laid off from live team at mythic is now one of the lead devs at Anet because of mr hickman and look at how many months of not fixing issues with world vs world ? Stop giving these guys excuses and free passes when they screw things up royally they do not deserve it , in fact i think the local teenager at the drive thru at burger king should get more of a free pass than these guys .

I want to see better games released like the old days of asherons call 2 DAOC EQ heck even wow vanilla , but as long as these same guys are at the helms in games nothing will ever change. Wait til ESO gets here and see the hate that gets when you have another outspoken mythic know it all dev ruining that game.

From my perspective:

- I love the game and enjoy it.

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play in June or July, as appreciation - how many MMOs in history ever did it?

- altough they initially promissed the update as free - things change as game did not perform as EA expected. Other games have changes too... see TSW - B2P.

- the price of this expansion is very cheap for subscribers.

I do not see that they actually rip me off on every corner, you know? I got so far probably around I don't know 1500 h of play if not more, totally worth it.

To be realistic, and I do play SWTOR so I have no axe to grind, the free month given out was as the games population was tanking and they needed to report the active subs to their investors that month, to say it was in appreciation is disingenuous at best.

Sevenstar61 · December 2012

Originally posted by ObiClownobi
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by cronius77
yeah ive never ever in my life actually hated a video game company for anything as its just games but to be perfectly honest i can say i really do hope this game dies out and people lose their jobs especially Jeff Hickman.

I hope you know that intentions like this can hit you back tenfold. It''s called karma. I don't wish you to loose your job, but in the future if I would be you I would be more careful with my wishes, especially if the intent is to hurt or harm other people.

On other note. It is so heartless and horrible thing to say. To wish anybody to loose their job in economy like this is the worst wish possible.

I hope nobody ever say anything like this to you in the future sir.

Good luck to you though.

first off im not some new age hippie that belives in that sort of mess nor will you ever convince me to . Second just because you are in love with the game no matter how much they screw over just about everyone doesnt mean that i do not have a right to post what i feel like needs to be done. If you want the truth i started my career in the game industry and left about 5 years ago and will NEVER EVER go back into it because of guys like jeff hickman and rob denton. Game companies regardless of what your personal love for this game need to be held to a standard the same as any hotel restuarant store etc and they are not. They are constantly forgiven for every single mistake no matter how large . Then on top of that the same exact idiots like Hickman are recycled back into the industry when one of their buddies makes a new company or gets promoted on some new studio and the same exact mentality and mistakes are made over and over again in a endless cycle as you have seen for the last what 8 years now?

I may sound harsh but let me tell you from experience the mmorpg industry is run period just like any shipyard or brewery in the USA , its all family members and idiots who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Just like matt witter mr hickmans nephew who was laid off from live team at mythic is now one of the lead devs at Anet because of mr hickman and look at how many months of not fixing issues with world vs world ? Stop giving these guys excuses and free passes when they screw things up royally they do not deserve it , in fact i think the local teenager at the drive thru at burger king should get more of a free pass than these guys .

I want to see better games released like the old days of asherons call 2 DAOC EQ heck even wow vanilla , but as long as these same guys are at the helms in games nothing will ever change. Wait til ESO gets here and see the hate that gets when you have another outspoken mythic know it all dev ruining that game.

From my perspective:

- I love the game and enjoy it.

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play in June or July, as appreciation - how many MMOs in history ever did it?

- altough they initially promissed the update as free - things change as game did not perform as EA expected. Other games have changes too... see TSW - B2P.

- the price of this expansion is very cheap for subscribers.

I do not see that they actually rip me off on every corner, you know? I got so far probably around I don't know 1500 h of play if not more, totally worth it.

To be realistic, and I do play SWTOR so I have no axe to grind, the free month given out was as the games population was tanking and they needed to report the active subs to their investors that month, to say it was in appreciation is disingenuous at best.

No matter what their intentions were... free months is free month - it pays in full for the Makeb expansion /grin

cronius77 · December 2012

Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
From my perspective:

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play in June or July, as appreciation - how many MMOs in history ever did it?

From my perspective:

- all subscribers got 1 month of free play at a time players were leaving in MASS and they needed a stop gap to stem people leaving in hope the upcoming massive greatest update in the whole of history, a UI upgrade, would hold them longer.

- several games gave free months and rewards for those that stayed...all were hurting massively. Example: Anarchy Online gave players free ships/mounts and a ton of other items for sticking with them. Sure it was only around 8-9,000 players out of the 100k+ that left the game after what was then the worst launch in history...but you get the idea.

Look, its GREAT that you like the game. but you liking the game does not mean that you need to keep acting like nothing is wrong or that the company does everything right. SWTOR failed to keep the majority of its players for a REASON. Most people working on the game got FIRED for a reason...and was replaced by people who then got FIRED for a reason...and yes, it did drop the subscription for a REASON.

The reason? It isnt good enough to make the kind of money it could have.

see i agree with this right here but some people will always blindly never admit when a company is at fault and continue to support them no matter what they do . It sucks i know but thats what free will is all about .

This game went free to play because it was on a one way trip to the fastest shut down in the history of big budget mmorpgs. Anyone who knows the EA louse story will tell you he was 150% right with every single thing said. This game continues to not get it and what its player base wants. People are playing it now because its free to play and im sure some subbed as 15 bucks isnt much money. But instead of saying hey you guys are believing in us again we can make things right and get back more and more subs , they decide to rip off their own playerbase selling free patch content to subs with the new planet and nickle and diming everyone with stupid gambling packs.

SuperDonk · December 2012

Making limited time products is nothing new nor is EA the only coorporation doing it.

The answer seems simple to me - don't buy it if you don't want it.

Rocketeer · December 2012

Personally what rubs me the wrong way is that the whole liveday shenanigans was just made up to promote their shopitems.

I mean there are lots of reasons to put RL seasonal holidays into a game ... but that has got to be the worst. I'll bet veterans day, independence day, valentins day etc are next. Up to now we had:

P2P = Pay to Play

F2P = Free to Play

B2P = Buy to Play

P2W = Pay to Win

Congrats to EA for creating a new one:

P2C = Pay to Celebrate.

MMOdad72 · December 2012

I have to admit , anyone who thinks that free month wasn't specifically because they were past the bleeding and on the life support stage for subs at the time really is not being honest or truly gullible.

Like the game or not , (and am considering coming back to try it again here ), the only reason a massive budget tripple AAA mmorpg like SWTOR gave a free month barely 6 months after launch was due to the publically stated failure in sub/retention numbers. EA's financial reports early to mid 2012 admitted as much.

They did not give a free month to be good the players , they gave a free month to try and salvage what subs they had at the time just a little longer till F2P cartel shop time.

I don't quite grasp how some of you can spin everything SWTOR/Bioware does as "good" while accusing others of being the opposite/haters.

It's fairly hypocritical wouldn't you say ?

EA has admitted they have failed in expectations , massively , why try and make everything they do positive spin ? It's obvious they made bad decisions in the past , couldn't current ones be bad also ?

EQ devs made idiotic decisions at times and die hard fans would (including myself) would call them out on it then ,I just don't understand trying to spin everything positive.

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Even after all the horrible PR, EA says: "[Lifeday items] are limited time offers, so now is the tim

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