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Thanks everyone for your comments. I will take all advice into consideration as we continue to move forward. I know a lot of people would feel very differently if I could post what we already have in the works. But I also understand we have all been burned by people saying they are making the next big thing. I did not really want to make the post about that because I am like most "seeing is believing" so Ill wait until I can show more when the time is right.
But regardless of if anyone thinks its a good idea or bad idea we are willing to pay for the artwork out of my own pocket so it will not effect you the gamer in anyway.
Not completely the same and I dont' mean to make light of this person or her family but this reminds me of the CBC story I watched the other day about Shriya Shah-Klorfine who died on everest.
No climbing experience, out of shape, who hired brand spanking new guides to help her up the mountain. No Everest is not a technical climb but she needed to be better prepared.
If she had just taken 1-2 more years to get in shape, a few more months to reserach the company.
My old scout motto. Hope for the best, expect the worse, what are you going to do about it.
Someone linked this a while ago. It applies here. Actually, some of the things he says are a straight rip from it.
Originally posted by colddog04 Someone linked this a while ago. It applies here. Actually, some of the things he says are a straight rip from it.
Egads thats depressing. Glad I don't work in that industry haha.
I wish you luck! i am curious about a few things though.
1) Have you created a Game Design Document yet?
2) Email it to yourself so you have a time stamped copy, to prevent plagarism
3) Have you presented this document to someone in the industry who can give you valuable feed back about it? I know the industry sucks right now, but they are the pro's and thier feedback can help.
4) Have you created a timeline for your project
5) Have you realisticly thought about founding for this project ( I dont want to see you on Shark Tank lol)
6) Once you have you GDC created, you need to ask gamers what they think of your ideas if your making it for gamers. I'm not talkinga bout 10-20, but 100's if at all possible. You may worry about you ideas leaking, but i assure you that what you have thought of, has been thought of before. If people are really diggin what youve come up with in your GDC, then move forward with the project.
Well looking at this it sounds more like advice than me being actually curious. Bur as i am working on my own GDC, i just thought i would offer this advice/ see how far you've gotten.
Using The Elder Scrolls Online as an example (which has voice acting). Keep in mind:
ZeniMax Online Studios has a $300 million dollar budget.
They have over 250 employees.
They have been working on ESO for over 5 years.
Also... you will need a publisher.
I'd also recommend watching Indie Game: The Movie (it's available on NetFlix) which discusses some very successful indie game creators (Braid, Super Meat Boy, and Fez). It will probably give you a better idea of what you are getting yourself into.
Dear OP. Have you ever heard about "art style" ?
If you get 100 players to make models for your sci-fi game the modells will all look different from eachother and maybe
they won't be in sync with the other "art styles" in the game.You can't put "WoW"'s models into a game like GW2 cause
they don't look the same.
I say just try at least and let's see.Wihtout trying there is no success for sure.
Sci-fi is kind of a "style" that most players say no thanks to.
You will need to find and pay some real hardcore network programers if you want your game to run smooth.
You will probably not find these guys just by saying i want freelancers but try ... maybe.
Just a good advice pay money for a network enginer and ask for advice.Tell him your ideas in details and ask for
his opinnion.I bet he will tell you as long as your company isn't called blizzard you won't be able to finance it from your
own pocket and neither will "kickstarter " help in it.
Maintaining a server park with the perfect bandwith will cost you a lot...even more that you can imagine right now.
So i will wait and see and i will try to help with the things that i can (voice over , whatever )
Good luck !
Originally posted by oreal52
Sci-fi is kind of a "style" that most players say no thanks to.
I totally disagree with this. What is it they want more elves and dwarfs?
Originally posted by MyTabbycat Using The Elder Scrolls Online as an example (which has voice acting). Keep in mind: ZeniMax Online Studios has a $300 million dollar budget. They have over 250 employees. They have been working on ESO for over 5 years. Also... you will need a publisher. I'd also recommend watching Indie Game: The Movie (it's available on NetFlix) which discusses some very successful indie game creators (Braid, Super Meat Boy, and Fez). It will probably give you a better idea of what you are getting yourself into.
Thx for the movie suggestion! will most def watch that later as it looks awesome!
Apologies. But I can not approve of the way you are approaching making a game. There are many flaws in it that makes it seem only like a dream that you're forcing to become true (Take a look at the youtube video posted, it really says wonders.)
Originally posted by pauly6478 Originally posted by oreal52 Sci-fi is kind of a "style" that most players say no thanks to.
When it comes to sci-fi and fantasy, sci-fi works well for movies and TV, fantasy works much better for games. This is in part due to the nature of the two. Fantasy is often what we want to have happen but never does, and sci-fi is often what we hope never happens, but it's possible (not necessarily probable) that it could. Basically, for most, dystopia is fun to watch and utopia is fun to play.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just to add:
Originally posted by pauly6478 Originally posted by greenreen Without a programmer next to you. I don't know how you will even know what IS possible. You can imagine all sorts of wild ideas but someone has to be able to see that and put it into code ... AND... you have the added fun of latency over a network so there is a limit on how much you can pass at once to get good response times, then wrap it all in security... unless you want to have a bunch of client side things that people exploit all the time. Just the idea that you are starting on art before programming is scary, to me. I think you might have the dream but without at least one full time programmer (usually the person that starts the project), you are throwing more money at it than needed. Maybe I'm biased because I program but if you don't have a programmer early on to tell you what is impossible, I'm calling doom and gloom. Kickstarter BTW does not regularly fund ideas, they regularly fund things where people are mostly, if not, all the way done. Go look at the mmos that get funded and those that don't. The funded usually have at least prototypes out.
Again taking this post off topic as it wasn't to discuss the game but more to recruit. But I will reply one last time. If I made it seem as if I have no computer programmers working on this I apologize. My post above about computer programmers was in the future we will be needing more and I want them to be "players."
And in my post before yours I mention that I will not even bother with kickstarter for sometime. Because I will give the players proof before I ever ask for money.
No offense at all, I went to school to get my BA in Game Production and spend many years in the Auto industry and ran succssful repair shops, making a game is a whole new ball game.... The issue is every game on the market has ideas and then fail at the rest because of what they think they can do.
I went to schoo thinking oh I want this game and that and even before school I did alot of work but actually working with a team its not easy and with a team that has never done it, bad idea.. I wish you the best, but your setting your self up.
Also your comment about Devs should not be making games, oh really, that proves you know nothing about most devs, we do not have all the say about the games we are making, its mostly about the big shots up stairs... I have worked with indies, and most fall on there face, which sucks, but all of them THINK they can do it, no , no , no..
Start smaller, learn, make smaller scale games, then go for the big dog... Bad idea, and this is why gamers show up to school and think its so easy anyone can do it, and the comment about dead lines.... Really???? I know now for a fact you have never touched 3DS max, Maya or programming, stuff happens all the time and there is nothing you can do, welcome to Game Production.....................
I seen your comments about having artists making you stuff and you deciee if your gonna pay for that or this, good luck finding an artist wanting to spend hours , and hours and then you don't pay for something you don't like... Not gonna happen either with any decent artist that is worth anything.... You need to learn what Documentation is and plan things out my friends, concepting, there is so much more than an idea.... So much more, you need to learn the buisness end, being a marine is one thing running a buisness in Game design is another...
Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe Apologies. But I can not approve of the way you are approaching making a game. There are many flaws in it that makes it seem only like a dream that you're forcing to become true (Take a look at the youtube video posted, it really says wonders.) There is no credibility or background of you in the video game industry. I have tons of ideas in my head for what I believe would make my perfect MMO, that doesn't mean it will be yours or anyone elses. It will also not mean that I will actively search for strangers on a forum to help me. To make an MMO would be considered the highest of the high for games considering MMO development costs, upkeep, and such. Whereas small browser games can be considered the lowest of the low, MMOs require constant bug watch, server upkeep, player management, constant updates, or you'll have a wreck. Just being an "overseer" isn't going to do anything for your team (Infact, it could do them worse if you underestimate or overestimate their career options, jobs, pay, or whatnot.) Most teams have leaders who are well versed in the aspects of what they are creating. Even being an entrepreneur would help your credibility. Where will all the funding come from? You can not expect kickstarter to provide all of your funding. Why would people choose your sci-fi MMO over others that could be more polished in the future, such as a released planetside 2 with updates? It also seems like you're just aiming for what "the players want." Sadly, even this generation's MMO's know that it's nearly impossible due to cost, time restraints, development hell, bugs, cheaters and a perfect way to add it into the game to appeal to all players (Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and Vorthos). If a game would be able to simply appeal to all things the players want in a box thats attractive why hasn't it been made yet? Normally, Original features in MMOs are very balance-breaking. It can be fun to the user, but not for the person it's being used on (Extra Credits) If the development of the game is going to take so long, do you believe that you'll actually have dedicated programmers or artists who will stick with you the entire way? Will your leaving programmers be skilled enough to write simple codes for new people to understand? Will the modelers still have a base plan for what they were doing or will you have to scrap it and start again? (Duke Nukem Forever) You require a publisher, who may want to get their "hands" on the game so they see it fit for publishing. What kind of talented artists are you looking for? Y'know, my girlfriend does some pretty nice deformed art afterall. Where will the main HQ or area of the game take place, a cloud server? Some area? What language will the game engine be in? Are you going to acquire the license for an engine or create one with programmers? What about modeling programs or graphic art programs. Would you encourage an GNU-style GGB (GNU Compiler, GIMP, and Blender unless someone else has other programs), VSPS3D (Visual Studio, Photoshop, and 3DS Max) or some other combo? Of course this is all optional as anyone can be fluent with anything for use as long as they are portable to other software. How will the music be orchestrated? Who will be the main composer also? How about quality assurance that isn't open betas, since they usually lead to people attempting to find ways to cheat. How will you benefit all your employees? If they won't get paid in your job as well as in others why would they come to you? What if they are poor/in debt? Honestly I can keep on going. Some of these points can be countered simply and I may have not put much thought into some, but others will remain. If you truely wish to create such a great MMO, you're best off learning how to lead productively first. Take a class or gain some knowledge in entrepreneurship so you may be more knowledgeable in organizing a business. If you want to take it another notch, learn at least the basics of programming, music theory, the type of art you wish for your game, and game design.
This person is damn near right now what is needed in this field, and there is more, but thats a good start..
write your ideas in a book, with all you want, story, thoughts, everything!
try to get a game company or indie company to do it with you as a consultant
otherwise you probably make a big mistake. being a former marine doesnt make you successful in everything else too.
btw, i guess most of us have such a perfect game in mind... sell yours or give yours to an indie company
Well shoot I guess i'll hang my hat up lol.. not so much. The original post was intended to recruit those that want to get money for their art work. If or if not I succeed is irrelivant, the person still gets paid either way. Now if someone who has actually created a successful mmo wants to tell me otherwise I would take the time to listen.
NOW I WILL POST IN CAPS TO HOPEFULLY GET THE POINT ACROSS. I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY FOR THEIR ARTWORK. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO RUN MY COMPANY.
SO PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC.
Originally posted by pauly6478 NOW I WILL POST IN CAPS TO HOPEFULLY GET THE POINT ACROSS. I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY FOR THEIR ARTWORK. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO RUN MY COMPANY. SO PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC.
"I have put a lot of time into working on this game, it will be a scifi mmo and I am currently looking to pay players who love video games to come up with player models and armor models for this game. You come up with the ideas of what you think looks epic and what you think games need to look like. I will pay for the rights to your artwork if I find it to be very professionally done and what I believe players want."
That's very unclear. Are you looking for concept art? It reads as if you are looking for actual 3D models, but there is no information on style, format or specs - just "what you think looks epic."
It's paragraphs like the one above that to you seem absolutely fine, but to those who are familiar with what you are requesting, it just screams of lack of familiarity with the actual scope or process of the project you are getting into. Definitely a lack of familiarity with the pitfalls. For example, no one that works on a professional level would volunteer based on what you wrote. You'll get amateurs and hobbyists. Now the problem isn't really that their work will be bad, but they won't have the experience or skills to bring all their works into one consistent look across the board. Combine that with the asset request being simply "create what you think is epic" and you'll have an epic mess of disjointed/clashing art.
What do you do when one guy brings you a pink and orange broad sword, another brings you a rusted, serrated steel broadsword and a third brings you an oversized FinalFantasy-style six-foot monstrosity? If you're going to have them all in the game at once, I'd say Saint's Row beat you to the punch on that asthetic. If you're going to allow x but not y and z then why not set those parameters earlier so as to not waste anyone's time?
Pauly this reminds me of a line from Monty Python.
Despite everything they told me I build my 1st Castle in the swamp and it sunk. So I build a second castle on top of it and it fell down and sunk into the swamp. I build my 3rd castle on top of that and it burned down, fell over, and then sunk into the swamp. But the 4th Castle, the 4th Castle I built stayed up!
Pauly my friend. There will always be people who say you will fail. You will probably fail. If you learn from your failures and use it to build the product that you envision then it may one day be what you want it to be. Thats why scientists use trial and error to to make discoveries.
Short Version: Screw the man. Make your game. Even if it burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp on the 3rd try. Because the 4th one might just stand up.
Originally posted by pauly6478 Again taking this post off topic as it wasn't to discuss the game but more to recruit. But I will reply one last time. If I made it seem as if I have no computer programmers working on this I apologize. My post above about computer programmers was in the future we will be needing more and I want them to be "players."
It has been done (see Simutronics for a working model). Essentially, hiring coders as independent contractors, and paying them peanuts (from the player base, working for the love of the game plus beer & pretzels money).
It hasn't been done by anyone who didn't involve himself deeply in the creation of the game personally, have skills managing a team, etc. And it hasn't been done by anyone who used "amateur" as a hiring criteria.
Interview with David Whatley. Note the timespan we're talking about--decades rather than years. Also not that the final product is very much a boutique game, by MMO standards. And of course all of the early work on Hero's Journey was redirected into its own game engine (HE) and ended up as vaporware.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Ciano Pauly this reminds me of a line from Monty Python. Despite everything they told me I build my 1st Castle in the swamp and it sunk. So I build a second castle on top of it and it fell down and sunk into the swamp. I build my 3rd castle on top of that and it burned down, fell over, and then sunk into the swamp. But the 4th Castle, the 4th Castle I built stayed up! Pauly my friend. There will always be people who say you will fail. You will probably fail. If you learn from your failures and use it to build the product that you envision then it may one day be what you want it to be. Thats why scientists use trial and error to to make discoveries. Short Version: Screw the man. Make your game. Even if it burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp on the 3rd try. Because the 4th one might just stand up.
I think the lesson is: Listen to those smarter than you and don't build your castle on a f***ing swamp!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
My ideas on a successful and fun mmorpg
- Random scripted NPCs/NPCs can die/Daily habits/Vacation/Criminals/New NPCs can be added etc.
- All NPCs have voiceovers.
- NPCs can be saved from monsters/NPCs can send you to places to complete missions/Rebuild cities/Craft armour,weapons and food for soldiers etc.
- There will be no quest or event bar. Your deeds will be counted and rewarded by NPCs who you helped or gave you a mission.
- No teleportation, but mounts can be used.
- Action oriented combat. You can dodge, strafe, jump etc and use skills while you move.
- Precise pshysical collision and physical detection.
- Weapon type determines what offensive skills you have available. Mace + Shield would let you CC enemies and Block attacks
- Armour type determines what defensive skills you have available. Light Armour would let you use magic shields, walls and destructive spells like firestorms.
- No gathering proffesions
- No craft proffesions
- You can gather anything and craft anything
- Mix and match resources to create new interesting items.
- Buildings are destructible and repairable.
This is a few examples how a really good mmorpg could look like.
So why didn't you just come out and say "I have a mega-idea for a game, I want free artwork"?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by Ciano Didn't you read the caps? He wants to pay for his artwork.
Might start with hiring a lead artist, I suppose. But if he doesn't have an engine yet, he needs real coders to build one, or buy one and adapt it.